onkyo 809 or onkyo 818 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 06:01 AM - Thread Starter
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i want to replace my onkyo 707 with the onkyo 809 or onkyo 818
what do u experts think?

thanks
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post #2 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 06:15 AM
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We have been discussing the 818 quite a bit over at this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1403172

Everyone is pumped about it because it will be the cheapest receiver yet to feature MultEQ XT32 so right now we are just trying to figure out if it's the full version or if they are stripping it down for a cheaper model. I would follow that thread as I'm sure you see more info come out closer to the release. So if the 818 has a full version of XT32 I would take it over the 809 especially if you have or plan to get dual subs.
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post #3 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 06:25 AM
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The 809 has been majorly discounted. Frys had it for $499 a few week back.
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post #4 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

We have been discussing the 818 quite a bit over at this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1403172

Everyone is pumped about it because it will be the cheapest receiver yet to feature MultEQ XT32 so right now we are just trying to figure out if it's the full version or if they are stripping it down for a cheaper model. I would follow that thread as I'm sure you see more info come out closer to the release. So if the 818 has a full version of XT32 I would take it over the 809 especially if you have or plan to get dual subs.

All the onkyos I've seen and used have the strip-down versions of audyssey at all levels, never the less its still audyssey, just without all the extra tweaks. Denon has the full audyssey software suite, the denon 4311 has xt32, Vans dumped afew units @800.. which is also likely a sign of the going price at close out time..
The us economy is still in a deep recession for most...
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post #5 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joehonest View Post

All the onkyos I've seen and used have the strip-down versions of audyssey at all levels, never the less its still audyssey, just without all the extra tweaks. Denon has the full audyssey software suite, the denon 4311 has xt32, Vans dumped afew units @800.. which is also likely a sign of the going price at close out time..
The us economy is still in a deep recession for most...

You're saying that audyssey in the 709 is different from the MultEQ XT in the Denon line? In what way?
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post #6 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by JPark View Post

You're saying that audyssey in the 709 is different from the MultEQ XT in the Denon line? In what way?

Yes and no, Yes its 100% audyssey and in its basic form its no different than anyother AVR with the same audyssey class level. AVRs like the denon offer much more flexibly and tweaks that the onkyos do not offer in the audyssey modes. If this is important to you, you should download the manuals of the avrs that interest you at this time..
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post #7 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 07:51 AM
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^^
This really is not the case ... Denon offers no more tweaks than do the Onkyo AVRs. As you've been told before, you are likely confusing the additional tweaking capability of Audyssey Pro (which the 4311CI is capable of using at additional cost of $700).

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post #8 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
This really is not the case ... Denon offers no more tweaks than do the Onkyo AVRs. As you've been told before, you are likely confusing the additional tweaking capability of Audyssey Pro (which the 4311CI is capable of using at additional cost of $700).

You should download the manauls of the onkyo and denon avrs with the same audyssey class level. please look them over and than post...
Audyssey Pro is another story, as you've been told before in the past..
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post #9 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 08:02 AM
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If you plan on having 2 subs or running 9.x with an external amp, then the 818 is the way to go. Otherwise, you probalby won't notice enough of a difference to justify the extra $400 or so for the 818.
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post #10 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joehonest View Post

You should download the manauls of the onkyo and denon avrs with the same audyssey class level. please look them over and than post...

Perhaps it's a matter of semantics, and as you have already done that, why don't you just post what you "believe" to be different?

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post #11 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joehonest View Post

Vans dumped afew units @800.. which is also likely a sign of the going price at close out time..

I thought that was a clerical error at vanns and they didn't actually ship any at that cost.
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post #12 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Perhaps it's a matter of semantics, and as you have already done that, why don't you just post what you "believe" to be different?

What I believe doesn't matter.. If this is important to you, you should download the manuals of the avrs that interest you at this time, and see for yourself.. If you see no difference of use to you, than there is no difference of value..
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post #13 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joehonest View Post

What I believe doesn't matter.. If this is important to you, you should download the manuals of the avrs that interest you at this time, and see for yourself.. If you see no difference of use to you, than there is no difference of value..

Where can I find the manual for the 818?
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post #14 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joehonest View Post

What I believe doesn't matter.. If this is important to you, you should download the manuals of the avrs that interest you at this time, and see for yourself.. If you see no difference of use to you, than there is no difference of value..

Uh yeh ... that's what I thought.

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post #15 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

I thought that was a clerical error at vanns and they didn't actually ship any at that cost.

It was, although apparently at least one poster claims he knows of someone who got it at that price.

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post #16 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Uh yeh ... that's what I thought.

That doesn't prove anything, you can do better than that... please look over the current onkyo, denon manuals you will see the difference in the user manual setup section in each, its really spelled out and very clear in each..
Its not for me, I alrealy know....

You don't believe me anyway. so you need to see for yourself..
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post #17 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joehonest View Post

You should download the manauls of the onkyo and denon avrs with the same audyssey class level. please look them over and than post...
Audyssey Pro is another story, as you've been told before in the past..

I've looked at the manuals and the only difference I can see is Denon has phase test (no big deal) and EQ read out(this I wish Onkyo has). Starting with the xx09 receivers Onkyo has now allowed you to adjust the curve between Reference(movie) and Flat(Music), the only curve it lacks is the L/R bypass which Audyssey doesn't recommend doing anyway. And these tweaks you say what are they? Everyone knows that outside of having a pro-kit, Audyssey filters are not tweakable. You can only adjust XO point, delay and level.
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post #18 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joehonest View Post

What I believe doesn't matter.. If this is important to you, you should download the manuals of the avrs that interest you at this time, and see for yourself.. If you see no difference of use to you, than there is no difference of value..

It does matter if you are going from thread to thread stating Onkyo has a stripped down version of Audyssey without ever backing this with any real facts. As mentioned above the bypass L/R and channel readouts are the only thing the Onkyo doesn't have but I wouldn't call that less tweakable as you seem to keep doing. If you know of something else Onkyo is missing you should be able to state instead of telling everyone to go read a manual to support your statement. Don't make the claims unless you have the intention to back them up.
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post #19 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post

If you plan on having 2 subs or running 9.x with an external amp, then the 818 is the way to go. Otherwise, you probalby won't notice enough of a difference to justify the extra $400 or so for the 818.

right now i am running a 5.1 system
i plan on going 7.2 in a couple months
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post #20 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

It does matter if you are going from thread to thread stating Onkyo has a stripped down version of Audyssey without ever backing this with any real facts. As mentioned above the bypass L/R and channel readouts are the only thing the Onkyo doesn't have but I wouldn't call that less tweakable as you seem to keep doing. If you know of something else Onkyo is missing you should be able to state instead of telling everyone to go read a manual to support your statement. Don't make the claims unless you have the intention to back them up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nismo604 View Post

I've looked at the manuals and the only difference I can see is Denon has phase test (no big deal) and EQ read out(this I wish Onkyo has). Starting with the xx09 receivers Onkyo has now allowed you to adjust the curve between Reference(movie) and Flat(Music), the only curve it lacks is the L/R bypass which Audyssey doesn't recommend doing anyway. And these tweaks you say what are they? Everyone knows that outside of having a pro-kit, Audyssey filters are not tweakable. You can only adjust XO point, delay and level.

So there is a difference, so I'm not the only one to notice. Did you check out the stereo only mode only in the denon's Audyssey menu settings..

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

Don't make the claims unless you have the intention to back them up.

I"ll just let you do it.. I already know, but its news to you..
You should thank me for pointing this out, but no, I'm the bad guy...
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post #21 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by joehonest View Post

So there is a difference, so I'm not the only one to notice. Did you check out the stereo only mode only in the denon's Audyssey menu settings..



I"ll just let you do it.. I already know, but its news to you..
You should thank me for pointing this out, but no, I'm the bad guy...

Yes I acknowledge the differences. But you haven't replied as to where can you tweak the Audyssey filters that you claimed you can do with plain jane XT32 on the Denon?????

Also although L/R bypass is available it is not a recommended setting by Audyssey themselves.

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries...-target-curves
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post #22 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 10:55 AM
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Yes I acknowledge the differences. But where can you tweak the Audyssey filters that you claimed you can do with plain jane XT32 on the Denon?????



Filters no, EQ curves yes, filters are set when the auto setup is first ran..
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post #23 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by joehonest View Post

Filters no, EQ curves yes, filters are set when the auto setup is first ran..

Ok but the XX09 Onkyos now let you chose either Movie(reference) or Music(Flat) curves.
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post #24 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 11:03 AM
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Ok but the XX09 Onkyos now let you chose either Movie(reference) or Music(Flat) curves.

Does the denon 4311 have those settings ?
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post #25 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by joehonest View Post

Does the denon 4311 have those settings ?

yes, please read link I have on previous post. Onkyo has chosen to go with different names for the Audyssey curves. Movie=reference and Music=Flat.
The 4311 has reference, flat and L/R bypass.

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries...-target-curves
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post #26 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by nismo604 View Post

yes, please read link I have on previous post. Onkyo has chosen to go with different names for the Audyssey curves. Movie=reference and Music=Flat.
The 4311 has reference, flat and L/R bypass.

https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries...-target-curves

I see onkyo is playing catch-up to denons Audyssey software suite. Having a 3007 myself I really feel onkyo short changed 3/5007/8 in the Audyssey menus, compared to the denons with XT..
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

It was, although apparently at least one poster claims he knows of someone who got it at that price.

I was the one that made that claim One of the vendors that I contacted told me that they just got a return of a 4311 from a consumer that was able to get in on the $799 deal from Vanns which they are now selling as an open box item. This is what I was told I imagine that even if it was a clerical error, that they still had to legally honor the pricing for those that they had already taken the order and processed payment.
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post #28 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joehonest View Post

I see onkyo is playing catch-up to denons Audyssey software suite. Having a 3007 myself I really feel onkyo short changed 3/5007/8 in the Audyssey menus, compared to the denons with XT..

you still can use the flat curve on you 3007, you just have to select a THX mode and the Audyssey curve will automatically switch to the flat curve.
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post #29 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joehonest View Post

Filters no, EQ curves yes, filters are set when the auto setup is first ran..

Note that the Denon only allows you to copy a rough approximation of the Audyssey curve to the "Manual" setting which, when used, disables the Audyssey filters (so nothing to do with Audyssey at this point .. the Manual curve and Audyssey curve are two different curves). Onkyo also allows you to manually edit a simple EQ curve as well.

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post #30 of 50 Old 04-20-2012, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by addictaudio View Post

I was the one that made that claim One of the vendors that I contacted told me that they just got a return of a 4311 from a consumer that was able to get in on the $799 deal from Vanns which they are now selling as an open box item. This is what I was told I imagine that even if it was a clerical error, that they still had to legally honor the pricing for those that they had already taken the order and processed payment.

What they aren't allowed to do is charge more than they agreed. They also can't keep the money without delivery of the agreed upon product. They can cancel an order anytime they want as long as they refund the money.

I believe you were told what you were told, but, it seems like there wouldn't be enough turnaround time for a return.

So, someone jumps on a $799 AVR that typically is sold for $1,300+. They return the item. It's not broken because it was re-sold as open box. The person could easily sell it on ebay or audiogon for $1,000.

I find it hard to believe.
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