Pioneer Steps Up Elite AVRs - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 263 Old 05-04-2012, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Prietz0r View Post

At first Walkamo, thanks for the clarification, I am going to ask/answer your question here below if you can give me some feedback on them would be great!


Well Chris thanks for this answer, you're perfectly clear there and it is more than true what your saying about adding new features. But there is a but, if we compare Pioneer with the competition like Marantz, Denon and Onkyo with their Firmware updates, they are adding features sometimes what Pioneer does not. --- I agree with you and will continue to ask that we begin offering feature firmware updates.


I am sorry to tell you this, but I just don't believe this This is purely a Marketing speech(And yes I know when it is that I work for one of the biggest US. Based Computer manufactures), at my work we as Techies call is MBS(Marketing Bull Sh*t). I am certainly that all of the 'new' features in the newest app is perfectly usable for the previous and even the generation before that A/V receivers. Maybe there are a little nuances in some sort, but if the app 'detects' that it is used with a A/V receiver which does not support a certain feature it just shouldn't show it and work with the other features without any problem. The problem in this is the following, the old application is not supported anymore and by that I mean that there are no new version coming out anymore for new OS versions of the mobile devices(no support for newer Android versions or iOS versions) which make the A/V receivers as disposable as a plastic bag you got from your supermarket! If I can't 'manage' my A/V receiver not anymore whenI buy a new mobile device or upgrade my Android/iOS version that would be very bad thing in my eyes. Pioneer should take Panasonic for a example how it should be. --- I can honestly tell you that the answer I gave is the answer I receive when I ask the question to our software engineers. These are people I trust. They have no reason to mislead me.

Exactly the same thing you said last year When can you tell more about this ? I just don't know anything yet past this year. Our first meeting regarding next years products is in June....


Okay this means that there is no sub EQ for the new products ? And no schedule yet for when there will be any form of this ? And what about a individual X-over instead of the prehistoric overall X-over setting we have in all Pioneers ever sold ? I will not know what is being planned for future products until our meeting in June.. I can tell you that I have/will ask for updates to MCACC at that time (I have been asking for quite some time).


Well the problem is you appear only to be available and visible when new products are launched, but you're never there when there are owners with questions about problems which are not solved or even never will be solved because Pioneer is not listening to it's customers like they should.

Please understand that I do visit the forums on a regular basis, however I do not post that often. Just because I do not post a response does not mean that I don't read about a concern and send a note off to Japan. I just don't have the time. Of course I visit more frequently when we announce new products, however it is not to build hype or anything. Just to see what everyone is saying.


Well I am hoping that Chris will give me/us some more insight

Hope that answers some of your questions...

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics
Product Planning
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post #92 of 263 Old 05-04-2012, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post


Thanks for the note Stuart...

I am first and foremost an AV enthusiast....

I have no problem in taking criticism on these forums about our products. What I don't like is that when I do answer a question honestly (Like the iContolAV backwards compatibility question), I am told that I am not being honest.

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics

Because the answer doesn't make sense so either you are being dishonest or not being told the truth

I have downloaded the icontrolav2 app and I could not find any feature in it that wasn't on the sc55

It added control of some features that exist that you could only control through the remote or had to program through the rs232 interface or though the Ip control protocol

And again, there is nothing to prevent you from adding features that aren't supported in older receivers, you just gray them out, the app already know what type of receiver you have

In fact that is probably the only reason you can't use it with the sc57 because it detects your receiver and says it can't be used

How about just taking that portion of the icontrolav2012 code out?

In fact Icontrolav, the old version, works fine with my sc55 as you would expect from the fact the ip commands are the same as you can see from the below documents

So I don't even understand why the sc37 won't work with icontrolav2 icontrolav2012 for that matter

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/St...Models_8.6.xls

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/St...C-37-RS232.pdf

Want to bet on the sc6x ip format document?

Icontrolav2012 adds the sound explorer tab picture below, is there one feature here that Is not already in the sc57? I can't find it
LL
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post #93 of 263 Old 05-04-2012, 11:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post

Thanks for the note Stuart...

I am first and foremost an AV enthusiast....

I have no problem in taking criticism on these forums about our products. What I don't like is that when I do answer a question honestly (Like the iContolAV backwards compatibility question), I am told that I am not being honest.

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics

I hope you aren't including me in that category, as I have never said you were dishonest.

My only criticism is when I've emailed you personally 3 times over the past 2 years & PM'd you several times regarding the situation with the Susano on behalf of Susano owners. Neither you nor David Bales bothered to ever reply, even if was to say "we understand...but".

My emails were professional, courteous, business reasoned and not a complaint about Pioneer.

Since you are posting, I'm glad to get this off my chest because it's been bothering me for quite awhile.

I took the time to listen to owners in Europe who wanted someone to be a spokesperson and took hours to compose a professional email to Pioneer on behalf of the group, sent it to you and others. Only to be ignored again by everyone, including you.

You don't owe me anything. I'm not a dealer, work for a dealer. But I am a buyer who has spent a whole lot money with your company over many years and you couldn't have had a better fan. Time has allowed me to become objective about what competitive products offer and evaluate them.

I've met you at 2 CEDIA's as a friend of Robert Zohn and had nice conversations with you before and at the shows. So I have to ask, why were the emails ignored?

A number of people here understand the Susano situation and also know of all my attempts to communicate with Pioneer US.

Steve
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post #94 of 263 Old 05-04-2012, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prietz0r View Post

At first Walkamo, thanks for the clarification, I am going to ask/answer your question here below if you can give me some feedback on them would be great!


Well Chris thanks for this answer, you're perfectly clear there and it is more than true what your saying about adding new features. But there is a but, if we compare Pioneer with the competition like Marantz, Denon and Onkyo with their Firmware updates, they are adding features sometimes what Pioneer does not.


I am sorry to tell you this, but I just don't believe this This is purely a Marketing speech(And yes I know when it is that I work for one of the biggest US. Based Computer manufactures), at my work we as Techies call is MBS(Marketing Bull Sh*t). I am certainly that all of the 'new' features in the newest app is perfectly usable for the previous and even the generation before that A/V receivers. Maybe there are a little nuances in some sort, but if the app 'detects' that it is used with a A/V receiver which does not support a certain feature it just shouldn't show it and work with the other features without any problem. The problem in this is the following, the old application is not supported anymore and by that I mean that there are no new version coming out anymore for new OS versions of the mobile devices(no support for newer Android versions or iOS versions) which make the A/V receivers as disposable as a plastic bag you got from your supermarket! If I can't 'manage' my A/V receiver not anymore whenI buy a new mobile device or upgrade my Android/iOS version that would be very bad thing in my eyes. Pioneer should take Panasonic for a example how it should be.

Exactly the same thing you said last year When can you tell more about this ?


Okay this means that there is no sub EQ for the new products ? And no schedule yet for when there will be any form of this ? And what about a individual X-over instead of the prehistoric overall X-over setting we have in all Pioneers ever sold ?


Well the problem is you appear only to be available and visible when new products are launched, but you're never there when there are owners with questions about problems which are not solved or even never will be solved because Pioneer is not listening to it's customers like they should.


Well I am hoping that Chris will give me/us some more insight

[quote=ss9001;21984588]I hope you aren't including me in that category, as I have never said you were dishonest.

My only criticism is when I've emailed you personally 3 times over the past 2 years & PM'd you several times regarding the situation with the Susano on behalf of Susano owners. Neither you nor David Bales bothered to ever reply, even if was to say "we understand...but".

My emails were professional, courteous, business reasoned and not a complaint about Pioneer.

Since you are posting, I'm glad to get this off my chest because it's been bothering me for quite awhile.

I took the time to listen to owners in Europe who wanted someone to be a spokesperson and took hours to compose a professional email to Pioneer on behalf of the group, sent it to you and others. Only to be ignored again by everyone, including you.

You don't owe me anything. I'm not a dealer, work for a dealer. But I am a buyer who has spent a whole lot money with your company over many years and you couldn't have had a better fan. Time has allowed me to become objective about what competitive products offer and evaluate them.

I've met you at 2 CEDIA's as a friend of Robert Zohn and had nice conversations with you before and at the shows. So I have to ask, why were the emails ignored?

Hi Steve, please read the private message I sent you before I posted my response...

Thanks,

Chris Walker
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post #95 of 263 Old 05-04-2012, 11:48 AM
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[quote=Walkamo;21984714]
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Hi Steve, please read the private message I sent you before I posted my response...

Thanks,

Chris Walker

This makes me, and for sure the others too, very no lets say more than very curious....

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post #96 of 263 Old 05-04-2012, 11:58 AM
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I guess it's too late to edit my post It took too long to reply to you.

Chris, publicly I want to thank you for your PM. Hopefully, we each have a better understanding of each other. I hope there are no hard feelings about my post...just had to finally clear the air and my fingers & keyboard let it fly.

I did send you my comments on what I personally found when adding the SVS audyssey based bass EQ'r to my MCACC setup. Hopefully, they will be helpful when you do your own listening tests with the 4311.

Steve
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post #97 of 263 Old 05-04-2012, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by purdyd View Post

Because the answer doesn't make sense so either you are being dishonest or not being told the truth

I have downloaded the icontrolav2 app and I could not find any feature in it that wasn't on the sc55

It added control of some features that exist that you could only control through the remote or had to program through the rs232 interface or though the Ip control protocol

And again, there is nothing to prevent you from adding features that aren't supported in older receivers, you just gray them out, the app already know what type of receiver you have

In fact that is probably the only reason you can't use it with the sc57 because it detects your receiver and says it can't be used

How about just taking that portion of the icontrolav2012 code out?

In fact I controlav, the old version, works fine with my sc55 as you expect from the fact the ip commands are the same as you can see from the below documents

So I don't even understand why the sc37 won't work with icontrolav2


http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/St...Models_8.6.xls

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/St...C-37-RS232.pdf

Want to bet on the sc6x ip format document?

I can assure you that there is more to it than just IP commands.

Most of it has to do with the firmware in the AVR. Many of the items in that are displayed in iContolAV are polled from the AVR, including DLNA DMC items..

I can assure you that it is more expensive to create a new app every year instead of just updating the current one..


I am more than happy to ask for exact details when I am in Japan in June.


Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics
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post #98 of 263 Old 05-04-2012, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post


I can assure you that there is more to it than just IP commands.

Most of it has to do with the firmware in the AVR. Many of the items in that are displayed in iContolAV are polled from the AVR, including DLNA DMC items..

I can assure you that it is more expensive to create a new app every year instead of just updating the current one..

I am more than happy to ask for exact details when I am in Japan in June.

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics

As far as I can tell, it is as simple as the ip commands and staus, it is not a one way communication

Those documents include feedback from the receiver including the data from hmg

I am guessing you can tell from this telnet session port 23, with the sc55 what is playing the rest of the data is what is scrolling across the receiver screen

This is exactly the info you that is exchanged with icontrolav port 8102

And seriously, the whole program is not rewritten every year, especially for the 2012 version

And just to be clear, this music is being played from a dlna server, icontrolav does not talk to the dlna server directly or the dlna player software, it communicates to the receiver through the home media gallery interface using the ip protocol which is the same as the rs232 protocol which at the most basic level hasn't changed for awhile, for instance turning on and off has bee the same for a number of years in fact the remote codes have changed in forever and my vsx1014 will operate my sc55
LL
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post #99 of 263 Old 05-04-2012, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by purdyd View Post

As far as I can tell, it is as simple as the ip commands and staus, it is not a one way communication

Those documents include feedback from the receiver including the data from hmg

I am guessing you can tell from this telnet session port 23, with the sc55 what is playing the rest of the data is what is scrolling across the receiver screen

This is exactly the info you that is exchanged with icontrolav port 8102

And seriously, the whole program is not rewritten every year, especially for the 2012 version

Of course not, however maintaining 4 apps is not as cost effective and maintaining one...

Like I said I am more than happy ask specifics when I am in Japan.. I can only tell you that I have been told by people I trust that it is not that simple.. Otherwise they would do it.....

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics
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post #100 of 263 Old 05-04-2012, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Walkamo View Post


Of course not, however maintaining 4 apps is not as cost effective and maintaining one...

Like I said I am more than happy ask specifics when I am in Japan.. I can only tell you that I have been told by people I trust that it is not that simple.. Otherwise they would do it.....

Chris Walker
Pioneer Electronics

I appreciate you asking the question, i remain extremely skeptical of the answer, you can't even mention one new feature in icontrol2012 that isn't supported in the sc57

Yes, the obvious solution is one app, just don't disable operation of previous receivers in icontrolav2012

Of course if there is anything specific, that requires a firmware upgrade, I would say, why not update the firmware?

An 8 month old $2000 receiver should not be obsolete

So whether it is stupid engineering or just one more tick in the box to get users to upgrade, the result is the same, you've abandoned your high end customers, just like pioneer has done for years

Look icontrolav2 didn't support the sc37, icontrolav2012, doesn't support the sc57, how many years do the engineers keep making the same mistake? I don't think they are that dumb

And like I mentioned, icontrolav runs the sc55

Enough said, thanks for checking in, good luck with the receiver line!
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post #101 of 263 Old 05-04-2012, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purdyd View Post

I appreciate you asking the question, i remain extremely skeptical of the answer, you can't even mention one new feature in icontrol2012 that isn't supported in the sc57

Yes, the obvious solution is one app, just don't disable operation of previous receivers in icontrolav2012

Of course if there is anything specific, that requires a firmware upgrade, I would say, why not update the firmware?

An 8 month old $2000 receiver should not be obsolete

So whether it is stupid engineering or just one more tick in the box to get users to upgrade, the result is the same, you've abandoned your high end customers, just like pioneer has done for years

Look icontrolav2 didn't support the sc37, icontrolav2012, doesn't support the sc57, how many years do the engineers keep making the same mistake? I don't think they are that dumb

And like I mentioned, icontrolav runs the sc55

Enough said, thanks for checking in, good luck with the receiver line!

Here are some differences

Zone 2 Tone
Zone 2 Balance
Zone 3 Tone
Zone 3 Balance
Virtual Wide
Sound Explorer
Virtual Depth 2 Channel
Sound Retriever for ARC
MHL Content Support


Those are the ones that I can think of right now..

Also, we added around 45 to 70 new IP commands for CI..

Sorry I could not answer your questions any better.... As I said I will get further clarification in June..

Chris Walker
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post #102 of 263 Old 05-04-2012, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purdyd View Post

An 8 month old $2000 receiver should not be obsolete

. . .

Look icontrolav2 didn't support the sc37, icontrolav2012, doesn't support the sc57, how many years do the engineers keep making the same mistake? I don't think they are that dumb

Let me play devil's advocate for a moment.

All of the varied Pioneer iControl apps are still available in the App Store. In other words, previous model year AVRs still have their own versions of iControl. Those previous model year AVRs have not been rendered "obsolete." To say so is really quite disingenuous.

With that in mind, why should Pioneer be expected to maintain backward compatibility with new versions of iControl?

AJ
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post #103 of 263 Old 05-04-2012, 08:16 PM
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What source devices can output DSD via USB?

It is for playing back SACD Files over USB. You can download SACD (DFF files) from the below website..

www.2l.no

Thanks, limited choice and I have some of those discs already. Is the USB input 2CH only or 6CH DFF capable?

How about the related DSF files? And how are these handled by the receiver, decimation (conversion) to PCM at what sample rate?

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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Hmmm...with the lack of it on the Pioneers, and the poor features Denon has been starting to push out, it appears Onkyo is the winner this time around.

Yeah, let's all run out and buy a Yugo, I mean onkyo, instead of a Denon or Yamaha. Onkyos have THEE worst quality control and reliability. Let's not forget how long they have been using the same fascia on their chassis. It's time for a series update on the inside and outside for onkyo..l starting with quality internal craftsmanship.

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Originally Posted by Irwinroad View Post

ccotenj gets to add another 4311 convert to the list

It's one hell of an avr


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Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Possibly, but perhaps getting rid of some of those 'room DSPs' might be useful to free up space. With modern DVDs and BluRays having 5.1 or greater mixes, who really needs Jazz Club, Stadium, Rock Club, Wide Screen etc...especially when there's Dolby and DTS modes for 5.1+ music and HT.

Couldn't agree with this post more. It's sad to see someone like pioneer who had one hell of a reputation in home av, simply rip at the seams... And so quickly. Their avr's are taking a nose dive and I can say with a straight face, Mcacc is worse then ypao.

I think if you want to stay alive in the future of avr's, you best invest heavily in your room correction software. It makes or breaks you nowadays. DSPs aren't the saviors anymore.

Yamaha and Pioneer have no right charging ridiculous amounts of money for top tier avr's while pushing their crappy room correction algorithm on us that never gets updated. On top of that, removing analog connections to save money but ignoring the main ingredient we want and need, room correction. We don't see audyssey sitting on their hands waiting for others to catch up.

Consumers are getting smarter and smarter each year. Stop being greedy pioneer and fix what's wrong with your last generation stuff, otherwise, you are not going to be around anymore.
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Yeah, let's all run out and buy a Yugo, I mean onkyo, instead of a Denon or Yamaha. Onkyos have THEE worst quality control and reliability. Let's not forget how long they have been using the same fascia on their chassis. It's time for a series update on the inside and outside for onkyo..l starting with quality internal craftsmanship.

Fanbois of the world unite! The only thing we have to lose is our touch with reality, but poor preconceptions to gain! Join together and feel the power of the fanbois!
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post #106 of 263 Old 05-05-2012, 06:16 AM
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Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post

Let me play devil's advocate for a moment.

All of the varied Pioneer iControl apps are still available in the App Store. In other words, previous model year AVRs still have their own versions of iControl. Those previous model year AVRs have not been rendered "obsolete." To say so is really quite disingenuous.

With that in mind, why should Pioneer be expected to maintain backward compatibility with new versions of iControl?

AJ

yup...

i'm also not quite sure how not having access to the latest iApp makes an avr "obsolete"...

- chris

 

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http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #107 of 263 Old 05-05-2012, 06:45 AM
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yup...

i'm also not quite sure how not having access to the latest iApp makes an avr "obsolete"...

I have to agree with you. it wouldn't be on my list of items to be upset about - I look at core functionality, handling new formats, connectivity, things that impact sound quality (bass mgmt & room EQ software), compatibility with what the company is putting in players (PQLS - 1 of the issues for SC-09 owners) but those are & have been my hot buttons & are not someone else's.

IMO, one always can get a universal remote & be set for 10+ years, no matter what gear you own as long as the mfg stays in business & maintains its code base. Even if they go belly up, you still can control your present gear...it suddenly didn't stop working same is tru for icontrol...the one for your model suddenly didn't go away.

maybe I'm missing something...(not the 1st time)

obviously, different people have different needs that are important to them. my view is that i-apps may be convenient but they aren't core. they are "nice-to-haves"

Steve
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post #108 of 263 Old 05-05-2012, 08:00 AM
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IMO, one always can get a universal remote & be set for 10+ years, no matter what gear you own as long as the mfg stays in business & maintains its code base. Even if they go belly up, you still can control your present gear...it suddenly didn't stop working same is tru for icontrol...the one for your model suddenly didn't go away.

maybe I'm missing something...(not the 1st time)

obviously, different people have different needs that are important to them. my view is that i-apps may be convenient but they aren't core. they are "nice-to-haves"

The problem with this is, yes the older versions are still available yes That is good, but the problem is, those older versions are not going to work correctly on new mobile devices with newer versions of Android or iOS. Only the newer apps were Pioneer is still developing for does.

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post #109 of 263 Old 05-05-2012, 08:22 AM
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Here are some differences

Zone 2 Tone
Zone 2 Balance
Zone 3 Tone
Zone 3 Balance
Virtual Wide
Sound Explorer
Virtual Depth 2 Channel
Sound Retriever for ARC
MHL Content Support

Those are the ones that I can think of right now..

Also, we added around 45 to 70 new IP commands for CI..

Sorry I could not answer your questions any better.... As I said I will get further clarification in June..

Chris Walker

I wonder how many of these features the 2 zone vsx-1122 has...

Tone and balance control for zones 2 & 3 maybe a new feature, but it does not appear to be In the vsx1122

Sound explorer appears to be the newest feature of icontrol2012, not of the receiver, and groups some audio control parameters that were not controllable from from icontrolav2 but were controllable through ip commands

This feature is the only real difference along with direct access to the tone and balance that Icontrol2012 provides and the only reasons a sc57 user might want to use the icontrol2012 app

Sound retriever in the audio return channel maybe a new feature of the receiver but the only command I see in icontrol2012 is on or off and again, no mention in the 1122 manual

But you were up to the challenge, the winner, virtual width! The single new feature that made the the sc57 incompatible with icontrol2012

Of course pioneer snuck in yet another app, controlapp. A very basic iPhone app which apparently doesn't work with the iPhone and older receivers. I wonder why?

Chris, ever bother to read the iTunes store reviews for the icontrol2 and icontrol2012 apps? half of them rate 1 star, one guess why
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post #110 of 263 Old 05-05-2012, 08:39 AM
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I noticed all the talk about MCACC and bass issues compared to Audyssey etc.

I do have a question about the current SC-57 and hopefully the SC-68.
Does the SC-57 dual sub out's test tone individually or is the Sub out's a internal splitter? I have noticed on the VSX models that it is a splitter but actual dual sub outs.
If this is a splitter on the SC-57 is it the same on the SC-68?

Reason why I ask is I run dual subs and would like to test tone them by them selves without having to un wire one and then the other then wire them together and average them.

Integra has dual subs out and they tone independantly. I'm leaning towards a Integra model due to this feature unless the new SC-68 also has this. Or if the current SC-57 has this. I have set up the SC-57 but with one sub. In the menu system it seemed like a splitter and I didn't see sub 1 and sub 2 to setup. I didn't dig deep either.
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post #111 of 263 Old 05-05-2012, 09:26 AM
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Do any of the Pioneer AVR's decode multi-channel flac files using HNG? I have checked many manuals and they all seem limited to 2 channel flac. I download multi-channel flac files (true HD files) from iTrax.com. (I used to download WMA Pro but Pioneer has dropped support so only 2 of my 5 operational Pioneers still support it.) I currently use JRiver Media Center on my HTPC's to decode the multi-channel flac and output via HDMI to Pioneer AVR. I could eliminate the computer at multiple locations if the Pioneer AVR would directly decode the multi-channel flac files stored on my Windows Home Server.
I wonder if this is a hardware or firmware limitation?

John
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post #112 of 263 Old 05-05-2012, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

i'm also not quite sure how not having access to the latest iApp makes an avr "obsolete"...

Not necessarily addressing this case but in a lot of cases the old generation of apps are rather weak... missing basic features. So when they begin to trickle out in newer releases and your model isn't supported...
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post #113 of 263 Old 05-05-2012, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Fanbois of the world unite! The only thing we have to lose is our touch with reality, but poor preconceptions to gain! Join together and feel the power of the fanbois!

Facts are facts..i have had my share of faulty onkyo equipment and so has many others on this forum. I'll be more than happy to join a hate onkyo fanboi club any time based on my own owners experience, which is hardly positive.
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post #114 of 263 Old 05-05-2012, 01:11 PM
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Is there a possibility, since Air Studios had some input on the features and functionality or MCACC, that it was felt to be an unecessary parameter to adjust from the receiver, but rather with the subs own controls?

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnson636 View Post

Not only have they not implemented this type of equalization, they haven't mentioned it as a future possibility. It would be a shame if money was the only reason not to provide sub eq to it's users.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

Facts are facts..i have had my share of faulty onkyo equipment and so has many others on this forum. I'll be more than happy to join a hate onkyo fanboi club any time based on my own owners experience, which is hardly positive.

Until you post real numbers, you are stating an opinion and pretending it is a fact. Support your opinion, post some actual failure rate facts. Until you do, you simply have an unsupported, biased opinion that should be given the same amount of care as any other unsupported, biased opinion. I had a Denon die on me shortly after the warranty ran out and the cost to repair it was close to the original purchase price. According to your loose definition of fact, that means it is a fact that Denon should be avoided due to its quality being horrible and there should be a hater club about it.

So go ahead and post the real facts about Onkyo...since you claim to have facts.
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

I guess it's too late to edit my post It took too long to reply to you.

Chris, publicly I want to thank you for your PM. Hopefully, we each have a better understanding of each other. I hope there are no hard feelings about my post...just had to finally clear the air and my fingers & keyboard let it fly.

I did send you my comments on what I personally found when adding the SVS audyssey based bass EQ'r to my MCACC setup. Hopefully, they will be helpful when you do your own listening tests with the 4311.

could you pm me your findings/thoughts or post here what your take was concerning the as-eq1 w/mcacc vs. the 4311 xt32?
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post #117 of 263 Old 05-05-2012, 03:48 PM
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He did state facts;
(1)"i have had my share of faulty onkyo equipment"-He's owned then and had more than enough problems...(I had nothing but grief from a TX-NR905 and a TX-NR1007....)

(2)"so has(have) many others on this forum" (Have you ever looked at this thread?? 129,00+ posts.... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ighlight=onkyo Check your 'facts' before you say somebody else's 'facts' ain't 'facts'..........


Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

Until you post real numbers, you are stating an opinion and pretending it is a fact. Support your opinion, post some actual failure rate facts. Until you do, you simply have an unsupported, biased opinion that should be given the same amount of care as any other unsupported, biased opinion. I had a Denon die on me shortly after the warranty ran out and the cost to repair it was close to the original purchase price. According to your loose definition of fact, that means it is a fact that Denon should be avoided due to its quality being horrible and there should be a hater club about it.

So go ahead and post the real facts about Onkyo...since you claim to have facts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

Facts are facts..i have had my share of faulty onkyo equipment and so has many others on this forum. I'll be more than happy to join a hate onkyo fanboi club any time based on my own owners experience, which is hardly positive.

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post #118 of 263 Old 05-05-2012, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pochoboy View Post

could you pm me your findings/thoughts or post here what your take was concerning the as-eq1 w/mcacc vs. the 4311 xt32?

I guess you can't read... I've owned plenty of onkyos.. You know what they all have in common today when comparing them over the last 10 years? They still all look alike and stop working. Amazing, isn't it?

There's a reason why Denon, marantz and yamahas are so popular. Many who left pioneer and onkyo jump ship to Denon and Yamaha. Someday, you will too.
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post #119 of 263 Old 05-05-2012, 04:58 PM
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huh? Son, you lost me.

SS9001, you here?
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post #120 of 263 Old 05-05-2012, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prietz0r View Post


The problem with this is, yes the older versions are still available yes That is good, but the problem is, those older versions are not going to work correctly on new mobile devices with newer versions of Android or iOS. Only the newer apps were Pioneer is still developing for does.

Exactly and as constructed, Icontrolav is a work in progress, there are a lot of functions that could be added

Icontrolav, the first app was very primitive And didn't take advantage of the iPads larger size

Icontrolav2 left the sc3x crowd out in the cold and the iPad app is very useful

Icontrolav2012 adds more control, only it leaves the sc5x users behind

Pioneer also snuck out controlapp which works with mid range receivers but it doesn't work with previous receivers

Funny they have two apps this year but can't support a previous years model

And honestly simply updating controlav2 to match the features in icontrolav2012 would be trivial for the developers of the software

If pioneer is really concerned about the cost and wants to help its customers, they could charge 99 cents

Or they could Make it open source and get out of the game completely

They could do the same with the receiver firmware
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