The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 133 - AVS Forum
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post #3961 of 10659 Old 12-17-2012, 07:55 AM
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I dont understand why the AVR1913 would have more watts than the AVR2113CI?

I'm looking to replace a 2807 because I want more HDMI inputs.

I'm looking at either the AVR2113 or AVR2313 but then seen the AVR1913 with more power than both of these units.

They all seem to have the latest surround sound decoders and I don't need second zone capability.

What are your thoughts on these three receivers. Looking for something at least as good as the 2807.
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post #3962 of 10659 Old 12-17-2012, 08:07 AM
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^^

I don't know where you got your numbers. the numbers I see are the 1913 (90), the 2113 (95), and the 2313 (105).
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post #3963 of 10659 Old 12-17-2012, 08:10 AM
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And bear in mind that those miniscule differences in wattage are inaudible.

Selden
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post #3964 of 10659 Old 12-17-2012, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

And bear in mind that those miniscule differences in wattage are inaudible.

I'm so glade you posted this. I have read this type of post before.

Please educate me on the factors of power/wattage. At what point does it make a difference?

See, I purchased the AVR 3313CI for my main home theater because it was near the top of my budget range and had the most power. I have no need for second zone, second HDMI out (I could use this but won't) and don't need connectivity for legacy connections like composite.

I mainly purchased the top of the line 3313CI for maximum power to drive my B&W 603s2 and B&W Center Chanel. I have an SVS PB12-Plus for my sub.

So my AVR3313 has 125 watts per channel and the AVR2313 has 105 watts per channel. Will I not receive a benefit from this increased power? If not, I could be saving money.

Please help me understand the thought process on buying an AVR.
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post #3965 of 10659 Old 12-17-2012, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petaylor View Post

^^
I don't know where you got your numbers. the numbers I see are the 1913 (90), the 2113 (95), and the 2313 (105).

I got it from Best Buys web page which obviously must be wrong. I looked it up at denon after reading your post and it list what you have posted.

That answered my question, the 1913 does not have more power.smile.gif
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post #3966 of 10659 Old 12-17-2012, 08:58 AM
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^^^

no difference... a quick explanation with much left out for brevity... smile.gif

speakers have an efficiency rating... that tells you how loud (how much spl it will produce) a speaker will get with 1 watt of power... to get 3 decibels louder (whatbis commonly recognized as a "noticeable difference", you must double the power...

so, taking an average speaker that has an efficiency of 90db...

the first watt gives you 90 decibels of spl... that, fwiw, is LOUD...

watt 2 gives you 93db...

4w = 96db
8w = 99db
16w = 102 db

and so on...

as you can see, power requirements grow VERY quickly once you get past the first watt... by the time you get to 105 watts vs. 125 watts, the change in spl is insignificant...

realistically, very few use as much power as they think they do... smile.gif i'd wager that 95% of home users never even use watt 2...

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post #3967 of 10659 Old 12-17-2012, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

If the receiver was shutting down in "protect mode" then it almost certainly wasn't user error. Most likely cause is a speaker short, check all your wiring carefully and make sure there are no loose strands or anything. If the speaker wire is good, it may have just been overheating. Is the receiver in an enclosed cabinet? Were you cranking it REALLY loud?

Ha, yeah no idea, I did end up checking all the wires but its been a while and its a new receiver now, so I'm not gonna waste any more of my preciously overextended brain capacity.
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

ah, OK, understood. It gets a little complicated, and the exact solution will depend on the goal.
There is a discrete code for Input Mode cycling -- this setting determines for a given input whether the receiver should look for the audio from the HDMI input, the digital input (coax or optical), or the analog input. However, it can't really be used to "mix" two different input names. As I discuss on my website, the input names are the "faucets" and those connections on the back are the plumbing... to coordinate two different inputs you need to coordinate the plumbing with the name. So, for example, if your PS3 is on the "GAME" input (HDMI) and you want to play PS3 while listening to audio from your Apple TV, you would need to connect the optical input of the Apple TV and then assign that optical so its also associated with the "GAME" input name. Then, by toggling the input mode from "Auto" or "HDMI" to "Digital" it will take the HDMI video but force the audio from the digital optical input.
If you want the ability to freely mix any audio source with any video source... it gets complicated. There's not a really easy way to accomplish that unfortunately due to the restrictions on HDMI sources.
Ahhh, ok, so sounds like to get the desired "Play Wii, listen to Music", i'd need one optical cable running from my HTPC to my receiver (on the Wii's digital input obviously). But if I want multiple, would you suggest simply getting a optical audio splitter and running it to ALL the Optical in's?

Edit: umm nm. Looks like the 2113 doesn't even have Optical Ins. I used a 4x2 True HDMI® Matrix Switch w/ Analog Audio Output from Monoprice to get both HDMI audio AND analog audio out of my PC, which was a huge headache and the last straw before I moved to a non-Denon implemented Dual Zone setup. But seems like that's what I'm gonna end up having to do if I want this to work without fishing more cords to the TV. Thanks again.
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post #3968 of 10659 Old 12-17-2012, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
no difference... a quick explanation with much left out for brevity... smile.gif
speakers have an efficiency rating... that tells you how loud (how much spl it will produce) a speaker will get with 1 watt of power... to get 3 decibels louder (whatbis commonly recognized as a "noticeable difference", you must double the power...
so, taking an average speaker that has an efficiency of 90db...
the first watt gives you 90 decibels of spl... that, fwiw, is LOUD...
watt 2 gives you 93db...
4w = 96db
8w = 99db
16w = 102 db
and so on...
as you can see, power requirements grow VERY quickly once you get past the first watt... by the time you get to 105 watts vs. 125 watts, the change in spl is insignificant...
realistically, very few use as much power as they think they do... smile.gif i'd wager that 95% of home users never even use watt 2...

I have noticed with my new AVR3313CI that I have the volume almost all the way up or at least past 3/4 the way when watching movies. I have it set where mute would be zero (0) and I'm watching movies at 79. I think it will go to 90. When I turn the receiver down around 50, the sound is pretty much muted?

Just seems like I should be getting volume at a much lower number/setting?
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post #3969 of 10659 Old 12-17-2012, 11:43 AM
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Is there any way to smooth out the volume adjustments or adjust the speed? Seems like you hold the vol button for just a moment and the volume shoots down to too quiet or way too loud. I've got the 1713.
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post #3970 of 10659 Old 12-17-2012, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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it's just the way it works, once you get used to it it's a fairly easy system. If you just tap the button it only goes one increment (0.5dB) at a time. If you hold it down it starts accelerating. Once you develop the "feel" for it, you can hold for a second to make a big adjustment, and then tap-tap-tap to make fine adjustments and dial it in.

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post #3971 of 10659 Old 12-17-2012, 12:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drober30 View Post

I have noticed with my new AVR3313CI that I have the volume almost all the way up or at least past 3/4 the way when watching movies. I have it set where mute would be zero (0) and I'm watching movies at 79. I think it will go to 90. When I turn the receiver down around 50, the sound is pretty much muted?

Just seems like I should be getting volume at a much lower number/setting?

that's actually pretty normal, although it should be pretty darn loud at 79. Most people probably go to -10 to -15 dB below reference (65-70) on the volume scale for loud movie viewing, but this can depend on your speakers, room, preferences, etc. Are you using Dynamic Volume?

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post #3972 of 10659 Old 12-17-2012, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Bingo! You'll need to assign the xBox HDMI to another source name that matches one of the unused analog audio source names. Note that the 4520 has the same "no digital to Zone 2" limitation.

damn. sucks that Game is pretty much the only one without analog. I thought the 4520 had digital to zone 2. I recall one model having it...
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post #3973 of 10659 Old 12-17-2012, 04:22 PM
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I need help getting the composite video working on the AVR-1713. I have the Denon Receiver hooked up to my Sharp Aquos 80" TV via HDMI1 and use ARC. I also have an old VCR that I want to hook up to the Receiver. I used the audio RCA cables (Red and White) to connect to the DVD input and sound works fine, but the Video using composite will not feed back to the HDMI output to the TV. I also tried it on SAT/CBL and not luck. The cable is fine because I can connect the VCR direclty to the TV. The ARC functionality allows, me to hear the audio throught the receivers, but I thought I would be able to feed all inputs to the receiver.

I tried running the easy set up a number of times and it still doesn't work. I've gone through every menu item in the setup and can't figure out how to get this working.

Let me know if anyone has been successful getting any composite video working.

Thanks
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post #3974 of 10659 Old 12-17-2012, 04:33 PM
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The place I was going to order from still has not gotten receivers (2313CI & 3313CI) back in stock. I want to ensure that I get a receiver from an authorized dealer for warranty purposes.

I know that there are always questions here on the forum about warranties but what happens when you purchase from Amazon? They are listed as an on-line dealer on Denons site.

If you click the Amazon link on Denons site, it re-directs you to Amazon. A couple different scenarios play out as you are shown:

1. Receivers that are from vendors selling through Amazon;
2. Receivers that are sold by vendors but, fulfilled and shipped directly by Amazon and:
3. Receivers that are sold directly by Amazon.

Since Denons own link takes me to directly to Amazons site and I'm shown receivers in examples #1 & #2 above, would it be wrong thinking that the consumer is fooled into thinking he is buying a receiver with a full factory warranty but in actuality not be getting one?

What about example #2 where the receiver come directly out of Amazons warehouse?

I don't have any Amazon receipts at my house right now. Does anyone know what the Amazon receipt says when you buy an item that is sold by a vendor but fulfilled by Amazon? Who handles returns?

Thanks, habe
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post #3975 of 10659 Old 12-17-2012, 04:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanguinicus View Post

damn. sucks that Game is pretty much the only one without analog. I thought the 4520 had digital to zone 2. I recall one model having it...

No longer the case ... frown.gif

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post #3976 of 10659 Old 12-17-2012, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habe View Post

The place I was going to order from still has not gotten receivers (2313CI & 3313CI) back in stock. I want to ensure that I get a receiver from an authorized dealer for warranty purposes.
I know that there are always questions here on the forum about warranties but what happens when you purchase from Amazon? They are listed as an on-line dealer on Denons site.
If you click the Amazon link on Denons site, it re-directs you to Amazon. A couple different scenarios play out as you are shown:
1. Receivers that are from vendors selling through Amazon;
2. Receivers that are sold by vendors but, fulfilled and shipped directly by Amazon and:
3. Receivers that are sold directly by Amazon.
Since Denons own link takes me to directly to Amazons site and I'm shown receivers in examples #1 & #2 above, would it be wrong thinking that the consumer is fooled into thinking he is buying a receiver with a full factory warranty but in actuality not be getting one?
What about example #2 where the receiver come directly out of Amazons warehouse?
I don't have any Amazon receipts at my house right now. Does anyone know what the Amazon receipt says when you buy an item that is sold by a vendor but fulfilled by Amazon? Who handles returns?
Thanks, habe

As noted on Denon's website .. "Amazon" is an authorized reseller, so when Amazon is the "ships and sold by" vendor the full Denon warranty applies. If the item is sold by a 3rd party, you'll have to confirm whether that vendor is also an authorized reseller otherwise the warranty will NOT be valid. AFAIK, when the item is sold by a 3rd party, the receipt shows the 3rd party's name as Amazon is simply acting as the distributor in that instance.

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post #3977 of 10659 Old 12-17-2012, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasm View Post

I need help getting the composite video working on the AVR-1713. I have the Denon Receiver hooked up to my Sharp Aquos 80" TV via HDMI1 and use ARC. I also have an old VCR that I want to hook up to the Receiver. I used the audio RCA cables (Red and White) to connect to the DVD input and sound works fine, but the Video using composite will not feed back to the HDMI output to the TV.

Unfortunately, the 1713 does not have video conversion. This means that it will not convert the analog video (from your VCR) and send it out over HDMI to your TV. JD and/or Batpig will correct me on this, but I believe the lowest model with video conversion is the 2113.
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post #3978 of 10659 Old 12-17-2012, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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yes, you are correct -- no analog > HDMI video conversion on the 1713 model. The 1913 actually is the lowest model that has it.

also, of course, this has nothing to do with ARC smile.gif

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post #3979 of 10659 Old 12-17-2012, 04:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasm View Post

I need help getting the composite video working on the AVR-1713. I have the Denon Receiver hooked up to my Sharp Aquos 80" TV via HDMI1 and use ARC. I also have an old VCR that I want to hook up to the Receiver. I used the audio RCA cables (Red and White) to connect to the DVD input and sound works fine, but the Video using composite will not feed back to the HDMI output to the TV. I also tried it on SAT/CBL and not luck. The cable is fine because I can connect the VCR direclty to the TV. The ARC functionality allows, me to hear the audio throught the receivers, but I thought I would be able to feed all inputs to the receiver.
I tried running the easy set up a number of times and it still doesn't work. I've gone through every menu item in the setup and can't figure out how to get this working.
Let me know if anyone has been successful getting any composite video working.
Thanks

As noted on p. 6 in your Owner's manual,, there is no video conversion on the 1713, rather the 1913 this the lowest model that features video conversion. If you connect the VCR to the AVR, you'll also need to connect a set of composite video cables out to the TV.

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post #3980 of 10659 Old 12-17-2012, 05:18 PM
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Ok. I think I'm making progress. So this is a little strange. When I was on media network (atv2), I shut off hdmi as an input assign. I selected both DVD and cable/sat as a video source and they both play the audio of the cable box and just the black "denon" screen. Still trying to figure out how to get video on the screen while I'm listening to music. Trying this with any possible sources and nothing is working!
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post #3981 of 10659 Old 12-17-2012, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Strider- View Post

Unfortunately, the 1713 does not have video conversion. This means that it will not convert the analog video (from your VCR) and send it out over HDMI to your TV. JD and/or Batpig will correct me on this, but I believe the lowest model with video conversion is the 2113.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

As noted on p. 6 in your Owner's manual,, there is no video conversion on the 1713, rather the 1913 this the lowest model that features video conversion. If you connect the VCR to the AVR, you'll also need to connect a set of composite video cables out to the TV.
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

yes, you are correct -- no analog > HDMI video conversion on the 1713 model. The 1913 actually is the lowest model that has it.
also, of course, this has nothing to do with ARC smile.gif


Thank you all for the quick response. I thought I was going crazy. That makes sense. I'll just direct connect to my TV then. Upgraded from an AVR-1800 and really like the new capabilities like HDMI Link, airplay and internet radio.
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post #3982 of 10659 Old 12-17-2012, 10:26 PM
 
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Hi JD

how much ventilation space does a denon avr need above it ? and to the sides of it?

thanks

ps my 1st super bass trap made this evening..

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post #3983 of 10659 Old 12-17-2012, 11:32 PM
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Is anyone else having an issue with streaming from a media server? If I go to the Network input, play music on my computer then switch on zone 2, i get both zone outputting which is fine. But if I turn off Main Zone (because i'm not in there, im in zone 2) both zones drop the source. Basically the only way i can do this is muting main zone or switching sources on Main.

There's a lot of innovative features on this receiver, and i bloody love Denon... but I feel a lot of the features fall just short of being truly awesome. A good example is the Android app. It's horrible. Anyone else feel the same?
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post #3984 of 10659 Old 12-17-2012, 11:40 PM
 
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all this stuff is too technical for me .. i solve the problem the simple way.. buy another reciever for the second room..
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post #3985 of 10659 Old 12-18-2012, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

Hi JD
how much ventilation space does a denon avr need above it ? and to the sides of it?
thanks

Generally you'll want at least 3-4" of clearance on the sides and the top. If in an enclosed cabinet, you may also want to consider using a small PC fan to exhaust the warm air to the rear of the cabinet. If the cabinet has a closed back, also consider adding a few DIY holes nearest the AVR. Nice job on the bass trap. smile.gif

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post #3986 of 10659 Old 12-18-2012, 02:27 AM
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The Pandora firmware update for the 1613 has been delayed until sometime today.

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post #3987 of 10659 Old 12-18-2012, 06:11 AM
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What is the video scaler in the 2313/3313 receivers. I want to upscale a 720p satellite (expressvu) signal to 1080p before it gets to my projector and not sure if the Denon or Oppo 103 player would be a better choice to do it. Or perhalps the difference would be negligible. Or maybe I just pass through the signal and let my projector do it. (Sony HW50) although my assumption without really knowing is that the scaler in the projector would be inferior.

I'm Jeff and I approve this message.
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post #3988 of 10659 Old 12-18-2012, 06:18 AM
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^^^

I have the 2113 which probably has the same scaler as the 2313/3313 and have found that the 2113 does a better job than my DirecTV Sat boxes as well as better than the panny plasma as well. I have set Native ON which just passes whichever res the source is to the 2113 and have it de-interlace for 480i, and upscale all to 1080p. My testing was all by eyeball, so nothing objective about the results. DirecTV has 480i SD, 720p and 1080i HD on the regular channels and 1080p on some VOD PPV channels for info.

IMO, the best way to determine what your eyes like is just to try the various settings.

Lloyd
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post #3989 of 10659 Old 12-18-2012, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by lparsons21 View Post

^^^
I have the 2113 which probably has the same scaler as the 2313/3313 and have found that the 2113 does a better job than my DirecTV Sat boxes as well as better than the panny plasma as well. I have set Native ON which just passes whichever res the source is to the 2113 and have it de-interlace for 480i, and upscale all to 1080p. My testing was all by eyeball, so nothing objective about the results. DirecTV has 480i SD, 720p and 1080i HD on the regular channels and 1080p on some VOD PPV channels for info.
IMO, the best way to determine what your eyes like is just to try the various settings.

Thanks. Can you set different options for different inputs. For instance, can I choose to do have the AVR do scaling on the "Sat' HDMI input only and just pass through the signal on the "Bluray" HDMI input?

I'm Jeff and I approve this message.
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post #3990 of 10659 Old 12-18-2012, 08:37 AM
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The place I was going to order from still has not gotten receivers (2313CI & 3313CI) back in stock. I want to ensure that I get a receiver from an authorized dealer for warranty purposes.

I recently purchased a 3313CI from One Call. I called them and got a great price, plus they shipped to me for free (and it was really fast shipping too!). They are an authorized e-retailer for Denon. I'm very happy with my purchase. You have to call them to get the best price. Their number is at the top of their page.

It looks like they still have the 3313CI in stock:

http://www.onecall.com/denon-avr-3313ci-7-2-channel-3d-home-theater-receiver
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Denon Avr 1513 Receiver , Denon Avr 1613 Receiver , Denon Avr 1713 Receiver , Denon Avr 1913 Receiver , Denon Avr 2113ci Receiver , Denon Avr 2313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon
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