The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 139 - AVS Forum
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post #4141 of 10593 Old 12-26-2012, 12:52 PM
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Help! 2113 vs. 1913 quandary now that Frys has the 1913 on sale today only for ≈$210 (final prices) less than the 2113 currently enroute via UPS to me from ABT.

Wondering if I should drive an hour to Frys and change from a 2113 (enroute UPS) to this Frys' 1913 to save $210.
I think the only things I give up with 1913 (from 2113) are:
- No Aud. XT, just MultiEq (this seems important, but for $210?)
- 3rd year of warr., (Nice, but not too big a deal since Cr. card adds one year anyway (was 3+1, would be 2+1 for 1913)
- No preamp outs for a zone 2 (I may use this, but I currently run outside speakers off an old AVR now anyway.)

1) So how significant, relative to the $ savings involved is Aud XT?
2) other differences I am overlooking
3) If I decide to go with the Fry's 1913, what is the best way to return the 2113? Can I just catch the UPS driver and refuse the shipment? Does that work, or how would seller (ABT) react to that?
Thanks for any thoughts as I consider rushing out the door and Driving to Fremont or San Jose. eek.gif
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post #4142 of 10593 Old 12-26-2012, 01:05 PM
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If the $210 difference is that significant then return the 2113CI, otherwise, keep it as you'll always wonder how much better the audio experience would have been with XT (you'll rarely find someone regretting they bought the higher model while you'll often find someone who bought the lower model wonder "what if?"). Also note that with the 2113CI you can still use the old AVR to power the outside speakers while still allowing for a 7.1 setup in the main zone or even placing another set of speakers in another room as another Zone 2.

Also note that you're likely looking at roughly at at least $20 in gas to drive to Fry's as well as at least another $30 in return shipping costs for the 2113CI as an item can generally only be refused if it appears damaged in shipment. Here's something you can "try" ... give ABT a call and tell them your predicament and ask whether they can give you any additional credit (or even store credit) for you not to return the 2113CI. Any amount is better than nothing. smile.gif

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post #4143 of 10593 Old 12-26-2012, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

If the $210 difference is that significant then return the 2113CI, otherwise, keep it as you'll always wonder how much better the audio experience would have been with XT (you'll rarely find someone regretting they bought the higher model while you'll often find someone who bought the lower model wonder "what if?"). Also note that with the 2113CI you can still use the old AVR to power the outside speakers while still allowing for a 7.1 setup in the main zone.

My mind wants to justify the (already made) decision. If there are no other notable differences than the three I mentioned above I guess MY main curiosity is, will I notice a difference from running XT over MultiEq?

I do realize I could gain control of the outside speakers from the 2113, but both AVRs would be on, and I don't really see any benefit from adding a second AVR to listen to outside speakers. The Harmony one currently turns on the second AVR (and turns off all else) when I play outside speakers. Am I missing any advantage to using the 2113's zone 2 Pre-Outs?

EDIT: I should mention my HT is in a great room 31' L x 23' W, so I wonder if that would increase XT's value over MultiEq in my particular room?
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post #4144 of 10593 Old 12-26-2012, 01:20 PM
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Has anyone noticed that Pandora radio keeps going in the background if you switch inputs. It also bleeds through to the other sources as well. I have noticed it when I paused a movie…
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post #4145 of 10593 Old 12-26-2012, 01:51 PM
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^^
Yup .. which is why you need to shut it down when you're done listening rather than simply changing inputs.

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post #4146 of 10593 Old 12-26-2012, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davekro View Post

My mind wants to justify the (already made) decision. If there are no other notable differences than the three I mentioned above I guess MY main curiosity is, will I notice a difference from running XT over MultiEq?
I do realize I could gain control of the outside speakers from the 2113, but both AVRs would be on, and I don't really see any benefit from adding a second AVR to listen to outside speakers. The Harmony one currently turns on the second AVR (and turns off all else) when I play outside speakers. Am I missing any advantage to using the 2113's zone 2 Pre-Outs?
EDIT: I should mention my HT is in a great room 31' L x 23' W, so I wonder if that would increase XT's value over MultiEq in my particular room?

More than likely you will indeed notice some difference (although not quite as dramatic as going from XT to XT32). The below is what batpig posted going from his 2310CI(MultEQ) to the newer 2113CI(MultEQ XT) ....

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1409431/the-official-denon-avr-xx13-model-owners-thread-faq/2300_100#post_22452412

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post #4147 of 10593 Old 12-26-2012, 02:24 PM
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XT vs. MultiEq
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

As such, I have the old 2310ci hooked back up and I am desperately missing my iPhone control and AirPlay! redface.gif It was so nice to be able to fire up music in the living room or back yard without using anything but my phone. And, as a follow-up to my comments in my long written review, I DEFINITELY notice the dimished overall clarity (especially with dialogue) on the older, non-XT unit. I was wondering how much I'd hear it, and how much was placebo effect from the new model, but I am doing more late-night volume yo-yo-ing with the 2310ci. Not sure how much is MultEQ vs. MultEQ XT and how much is other behind-the-scenes tweaking of the DSP, but the 2113ci brought a new level of clarity and cohesion to my system.

JD,
Thanks for the link to Batpig's comment about his recent experience with XT, then back to MultiEq as he awaits his 2313 (I had missed that). Since a major issue on my system was problems hearing dialogue, his comments make me want to stick with the 2113/XT decision. Even though my dialogue problem 'seems' all but gone since I moved my center channel speaker from the shelf below (in cabinet) to actually in front of the TV, if there is a possibilty of further improvement to dialogue, that tips the scales for me to keep the (in transit) 2113 with XT.



Having open 'air' all around the center channel seems to have done the lions share of dialogue improvement. Above center ch. shelf is rev. 1. I plan to make rev 2 so the speaker drops 2" and nolonger covers a bit of the screen. I can't imagine it would, but would adding more than the current 1" of space 'behind' the speaker improve the speaker's dialogue performance?

(Side note: IIRC, some dailog comes from the fronts as well. anyone recall the ≈ percentage split of dialogue between ctr and front mains?)
Thanks
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post #4148 of 10593 Old 12-26-2012, 02:26 PM
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Doubt it ... more effective would be to angle the center up towards your ear height though.

85%+ - center

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post #4149 of 10593 Old 12-26-2012, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Doubt it ... more effective would be to angle the center up towards your ear height though.
85%+ - center

Speaker has always been angled to ear level of MLP. Tks for the ctr ch dialogue %
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post #4150 of 10593 Old 12-26-2012, 02:45 PM
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need some help from the pros...

Just hooked up a DefTech Pro Cinema 60 (PDF) to a 1613 a little while ago but I'm not getting sound from the sub. Everything's plugged in correctly so I think it's a setting within the AVR that I'm missing. I can't run Audyssey right now (11 day old baby girl would get pissed at me...) and my quick google search mentioned having to run it to get the sub to auto turn on. The LED is lit up RED on the back of the sub and I hear buzzing from the sub when I remove the cable in the AVR and tap the plug. ProCin manual (pg 8) says the sub "turns on automatically when a signal is fed to loudspeaker and does not require an on-off switch."

L/R = small
Center = small
Sub = yes

Sub controls = gain at 12 o'clock, 150hz filter

What am I missing?

Thanks in advance, and thanks to Batpig and JDS... I've read through this thread a bunch before getting to play with my new toys!

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post #4151 of 10593 Old 12-26-2012, 02:51 PM
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Denon 1913 has MultiEq not XP, right?
EDIT: Yes, Dave, you are correct. (self now says to self)

Lots of stories on the why here. (Conclusion... marketing wink.gif )
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1416172/why-does-the-denon-1713-have-audyssey-multieqxt-but-the-1913-does-not
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post #4152 of 10593 Old 12-26-2012, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drober30 View Post

Are you guys who are buying the 3313CI really running multiple zones and using dual HDMI outs?
I purchased the 3313CI and and after learning more about the real lack or benefit from the increase in wattage from 105 to 125, I'm going to exchange mine for the 2313CI which is less and still offers all the features that "I" will actually use.
I originally purchased the 3313CI for the increase in power thinking that my B&W speakers would be powered better, sound better but thats not really the case going from 105 to 125.

Hi,

Have you, or anybody who heard the 3313 AND the 2313 noticed any difference in sound quality? I'm about to order one of those but not quite sure yet. I don't really need all that zone2 video stuff from the 3313 but it just looks a lot nicer smile.gif
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post #4153 of 10593 Old 12-26-2012, 05:34 PM
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I own the 1613, which I recently hooked up about 2 hours ago. I've been using my iPod to listen to music through my receiver. The first time I plugged in my iPod I was able to select the songs using my iPod, which was much easier. The next time I went to plug my iPod in it required me to select the songs through the receiver remote. Is there any way I can choose to select the songs through my iPod or using the receiver remote?

Thanks.
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post #4154 of 10593 Old 12-26-2012, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

1. Many subwoofers feature speaker wire (aka "high level") inputs. It isn't anything unique to the setup the dealer was trying to push. You could add a subwoofer to ANY set of Zone 2 speakers this way. Just make sure the sub you'd get has this input/output option. This poses no harm to the AVR since the sub is still using its own amp to power the woofer.
2. As long as the speaker switch has impedance matching circuitry, the receiver will be protected from overload. There are obviously limits -- I wouldn't try to use this with 4 or 6 pairs of speakers -- but for only two pairs running off two amps it will be fine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

@hhiguera -
1. Also note that using a sub with those speakers would definitely improve the audio quality.
2. Two pairs should be no problem, 3 may work as well, but more than that gets iffy and may shut down the AVR if played too loud.

Thanks to both. That is good news! Kind of what I wanted to hear...smile.gif will try a pair of speakers with a sub in the living room and the speaker selector (I now understand I can not use a 'pasive' one) for a 2nd pair in the kitchen. Don't really need to use more than those two pairs so it seems I'm safe.
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post #4155 of 10593 Old 12-26-2012, 05:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckweb View Post

I own the 1613, which I recently hooked up about 2 hours ago. I've been using my iPod to listen to music through my receiver. The first time I plugged in my iPod I was able to select the songs using my iPod, which was much easier. The next time I went to plug my iPod in it required me to select the songs through the receiver remote. Is there any way I can choose to select the songs through my iPod or using the receiver remote?

Thanks.

Hit the OPTION button on the remote and then switch from Browse mode to Remote mode.
Buckweb likes this.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
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http://batpigworld.com/

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post #4156 of 10593 Old 12-26-2012, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UGAd13 View Post

need some help from the pros...
Just hooked up a DefTech Pro Cinema 60 (PDF) to a 1613 a little while ago but I'm not getting sound from the sub. Everything's plugged in correctly so I think it's a setting within the AVR that I'm missing. I can't run Audyssey right now (11 day old baby girl would get pissed at me...) and my quick google search mentioned having to run it to get the sub to auto turn on. The LED is lit up RED on the back of the sub and I hear buzzing from the sub when I remove the cable in the AVR and tap the plug. ProCin manual (pg 8) says the sub "turns on automatically when a signal is fed to loudspeaker and does not require an on-off switch."
L/R = small
Center = small
Sub = yes
Sub controls = gain at 12 o'clock, 150hz filter
What am I missing?
Thanks in advance, and thanks to Batpig and JDS... I've read through this thread a bunch before getting to play with my new toys!



fixed it... reconnected everything to the right connections this time. I blame it on lack of sleep.

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post #4157 of 10593 Old 12-26-2012, 06:55 PM
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I have a question... I have an AVR-1913, I'd like to listen to music while playing a video game. I'd like to not hear the sounds of the game and have my music going through all speakers in main zone. I have a zone 2 in another room so I can't use it. Can I play another audio source than what's going on on the screen? Thanks for any help.
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post #4158 of 10593 Old 12-26-2012, 08:02 PM
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Hi Guys,
So I have played with my 1713 for a few days now. I have run across a couple more questions, I will number them to make them a bit easier to respond too. Once again thanks for all the help in advance.

1. Do you need to set Audio levels such as Dynamic Volume for each input, such as Blu Ray, Game and Cab/Sat? When I switched to Blu Ray today, my settings were on Medium even though I have changed it to Light and my sub was at -5.0 even though I had previously changed it to -3.5. When I switched back to Cab/Sat, my settings were there. Just confused if I have to run Audyssey for each HDMI Input.

2. On my Panasonic blu ray player, I have sound set up to go through the hdmi into the receiver. Under settings I have set it for digital audio through PCM, my other choice is Bitstream. Is this correct? I watched my first movie today and noticed that my receiver didnt state Dolby or ProLogic, instead it only said Multi In.

3. My wife was wondering how we ensure that Pandora or internet radio is off before switching back to Cab/Sat. Right now we just hit back until the screen appears that has multiple choices such as pandora, internet radio, favorites etc. Then we switch to Cab/Sat. Is that the correct process?

Thanks for the help in advance, I really look forward to the responses as I have now read through the manual, and I am at a loss for why that is happening. Thanks Pete

Update, I answered number 2 for myself through a simple switch to bitstream. It now shows what the source audio is. I guess it must me when the receiver does the "unzipping' that it shows what it turns into. It actually sounds a bit better with it on Bitstream if that makes sense.
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post #4159 of 10593 Old 12-26-2012, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
C
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasta Linus View Post

I have a question... I have an AVR-1913, I'd like to listen to music while playing a video game. I'd like to not hear the sounds of the game and have my music going through all speakers in main zone. I have a zone 2 in another room so I can't use it. Can I play another audio source than what's going on on the screen? Thanks for any help.

Low/no tech ... Are you able to route your game console directly to your TV, then select your audio of choice from the AVR. I actually did a similar work around on Christmas day wanting the Fire place DVD to play on the TV, while the AVR Played Xmas music from my XM tuner. I just ran an extra HDMI cable from the BD player (pulled one connected to AVR out first of course) directly to an open HDMI on the TV. I manually turn on BD and TV, then changecTV's input. I rarely use this, but it is easy to swap HDMI cables on the back of the BD player for me. In your case, you may just leave the game console plugged into TV.
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post #4160 of 10593 Old 12-27-2012, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davekro View Post

Speaker has always been angled to ear level of MLP. Tks for the ctr ch dialogue %

Really? Guess the photo is deceiving then.

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post #4161 of 10593 Old 12-27-2012, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UGAd13 View Post


fixed it... reconnected everything to the right connections this time. I blame it on lack of sleep.

Thanks for reporting back with the solution. We all have Homer "DOH!" moments from time to time. biggrin.gif

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post #4162 of 10593 Old 12-27-2012, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rasta Linus View Post

I have a question... I have an AVR-1913, I'd like to listen to music while playing a video game. I'd like to not hear the sounds of the game and have my music going through all speakers in main zone. I have a zone 2 in another room so I can't use it. Can I play another audio source than what's going on on the screen? Thanks for any help.

How is your video game source connected to the AVR? If HDMI only, then also connect it with a component video cable to another source name. Then with the music source playing, use change the "Video Select" (p. 111 OM) setting to the component video input source.

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post #4163 of 10593 Old 12-27-2012, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petes67bird View Post

Hi Guys,
So I have played with my 1713 for a few days now. I have run across a couple more questions, I will number them to make them a bit easier to respond too. Once again thanks for all the help in advance.
1. Do you need to set Audio levels such as Dynamic Volume for each input, such as Blu Ray, Game and Cab/Sat? When I switched to Blu Ray today, my settings were on Medium even though I have changed it to Light and my sub was at -5.0 even though I had previously changed it to -3.5. When I switched back to Cab/Sat, my settings were there. Just confused if I have to run Audyssey for each HDMI Input.
2. On my Panasonic blu ray player, I have sound set up to go through the hdmi into the receiver. Under settings I have set it for digital audio through PCM, my other choice is Bitstream. Is this correct? I watched my first movie today and noticed that my receiver didnt state Dolby or ProLogic, instead it only said Multi In.
3. My wife was wondering how we ensure that Pandora or internet radio is off before switching back to Cab/Sat. Right now we just hit back until the screen appears that has multiple choices such as pandora, internet radio, favorites etc. Then we switch to Cab/Sat. Is that the correct process?
Thanks for the help in advance, I really look forward to the responses as I have now read through the manual, and I am at a loss for why that is happening. Thanks Pete
Update, I answered number 2 for myself through a simple switch to bitstream. It now shows what the source audio is. I guess it must me when the receiver does the "unzipping' that it shows what it turns into. It actually sounds a bit better with it on Bitstream if that makes sense.

1. Correct. Dyn EQ and Dyn Vol can be set separately for each source, although Audyssey only has to be run once.
2. Although the bitstream audio is a few db "louder" the quality is the same either way.
3. As noted on p. 55 OM, you should be able to just press/hold the Enter button on the remote as indicated in the below picture (also applies to Internet radio stations as well) to stop the source from playing.



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post #4164 of 10593 Old 12-27-2012, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vintagevrs View Post

Please help redface.gif

I have just built a new house and I am setting up a 3313 to supply two different rooms with different HDMI sources. The rooms are connected to the 3313 using CAT5/6 extenders.

One television is a 42" Toshiba, a few years old now and this is for the bedroom. The second is a 50" Panasonic 50vt50. The source I am testing with is a PS3. So here is the problem.....


If I connect the PS3 directly to the extender for the each room everything works fine, picture is perfect with no drops. Also, if I bring the two TVs to the source room and connect everything up all works fine too. I can display the PS3 on one or both TVs going through the 3313. However, if I then move the TVs back to the rooms they are meant to be in, connected via HDMI extenders then the TVs do not pick up and hold the HDMI signal???confused.gif

Am I missing something really obvious? From setting it up in different ways I have proved that each component works fine, however, they will not work together.

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks


I have done some more homework on this. The baluns that I use are passive and are powered by the equipement that they are connected to. I have found that HDMI runs at 5V. So looks like my PS3 supplies the baluns with a solid 5V signal but my 3313 does not. Does anyone know if this is a normal for the Denon or may I have a faulty unit?

Thanks

Vintage
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post #4165 of 10593 Old 12-27-2012, 09:23 AM
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There's the issue then .. you need "active" /powered cat 5/6 extenders when connecting through the AVR.

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post #4166 of 10593 Old 12-27-2012, 09:37 AM
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good thinking. I will try this evening. Thanks
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post #4167 of 10593 Old 12-27-2012, 11:48 AM
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Just go the 1913, and I have a question about HDMI pass-through. I have my Fios box and PS3 plugged into the 1913 with HDMI out to the TV. The pass-through works great, but I run into a problem when I want to switch inputs. If I switch to watch a DVD, for instance, can the 1913 switch pass-through inputs without turning on? Or do I have to turn on the 1913, change the input there, and then turn it back off if I want to watch a movie without using the surround sound? I have a Harmony 900 universal remote that I have programmed "activities", should I add a step in there to get the 1913 to switch inputs on the pass-through?

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post #4168 of 10593 Old 12-27-2012, 12:47 PM
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I am setting up my 3313 and I have two subs one going out of each sub outputs, however I just played some music via AirPlay and it seemed I was only getting one sub to work during playback (sub1) and not both. I ran audissey and it seemed like they were both detected. Shouldn't I expect both subs to operate the same during all playback? Am I missing something? Thank you.

I must have 1080p
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post #4169 of 10593 Old 12-27-2012, 01:16 PM
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I just set up my 3313. I have my CBL/SAT via HDMI to jack # 1. My Sony Blu Ray is connected via HDMI to jack #3. I set the HDMI Control on the 3313 to On and set the standby sourch to CBL/SAT.

The problem is when in Standby, BOTH the CBL/SAT and the Blu Ray will pass through to TV when being used. When I turn the Blu Ray off I can not watch the CBL/SAT on the TV until I turn the receiver back on and off. However if I watch CBL/SAT with the receiver in Standby, the sound will pass to the TV and then back to the Receiver when I turn the receiver on.

I don't know why the Blu Ray sound passes through to the TV when the HDMI Control is set to CBL/SAT and not Blu Ray.


Also, I have the receiver connected to the internet. Should I turn the IP Control to ON, or leave it OFF? What does this do?

Thanks for any help.
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post #4170 of 10593 Old 12-27-2012, 02:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Abellone - this is almost certainly caused by HDMI-CEC on your blu-ray player. On a Sony it would be called "BraviaLink" I think. Turn that off and I bet the problem is gone.

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