The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 148 - AVS Forum
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post #4411 of 10822 Old 01-02-2013, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jake51 View Post

Hi
Do any of you guys have the 3313 AVR/DBT combo?
I'm really interested in hearing about sound from movies via Denon Link HD
Is it noticeably better than sound via HDMI?
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated
Thanks
Jakob

Dollars to donuts the only difference you'll hear is in your head, and of the hole being torn in your wallet. The AVR-3313 is a great unit (I've got one myself) but the DLHD stuff is just marketing clap-trap, in my opinion. Basically DLHD is just a timing signal so that the transmission/reception clocks are synchronized between the player and the AVR thus preventing "clock skew" or jitter. In real terms, this is pretty much meaningless since the on-wire HDMI protocol is designed to make clock recovery simple and reliable. If I were you, I'd save my money and buy a nice midrange BDP player with decent build quality and software performance.
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post #4412 of 10822 Old 01-02-2013, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davekro View Post

Are you saying that the compression/sound quality is worse listening via an XM tuner vs. listening online/streaming? If so, crap.
Thanks, Dave


Both my pioneer inno and my car JVC radio have significantly more compression on air than my browser based player I think. The iPhone app has more compression than the desktop site does as well (a least to my ears).
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post #4413 of 10822 Old 01-02-2013, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Option View Post

Hey JD, I figured it out so I thought I'd post a quick follow-up in case you ever have someone asking you this same question. Turns out that my DVD player's software had a bug which caused an half second audio skip whenever the DVD crossed over into a new chapter/track. I think the 1613 always does a quick ramp-up of volume whenever it recieves a new audio signal which made the skips even more noticable. Updating my DVD player to the latest software fixed the problem altogether. As always, thanks again for all you help.

And thanks for posting the solution. smile.gif

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post #4414 of 10822 Old 01-02-2013, 08:10 PM
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Just upgraded from a 2805 to a 2113, eliminating a ton of cables and gaining a whole lot of features.

In the setup process I added a pile of discrete commands for the 2113 to my H1 (from the raw list list posted by barpig - thanks).

One of the commands was "DTS NEO:X ON/OFF TOGGLE", big mistake!!! Selecting this disables sound for that device (CBL/SAT), and the only way that I have found to get it back is doing an AVR reset. Yes, I know know that the 2113 does not support NEO:X, but am surprised that the command would not just be ignored. Maybe the hex code list should have a comment that it should only be used with supported models.
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post #4415 of 10822 Old 01-02-2013, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

I just got my refurb AVR-3313CI yesterday, and have been having the most horrible series of issues trying to set it up and update its firmware.
First off, the initial setup went off without a hitch, and I am able to listen to internet radio, get notices of firmware updates available, etc.
Once I start to try and update the receiver, all manners of problems are cropping up.
Initially, the receiver notified me of an available update, but once I chose to start the update process, it could not authenticate with the server. So I exit out of the update process, and then tried again after a while. Now the receiver estimated that the update is estimated to take 40 minutes, and started the update process. The receiver went into standby, and the receiver's front panel displayed "Update retry ... Please wait ...". It got stuck there for a couple of hours before I summoned up the courage to try and reset the receiver.
I pressed INFO and BACK buttons simultaneously and pressed the POWER button on the front panel. The receiver display started flash at 1 sec intervals and I let go of the buttons. The receiver then restarted itself, and immediately went into the same "Update retry ... Please wait ..." loop. Cursing my decision to bother with refurb gear, I repeated the reset trick as before, only to have the receiver go back into the Update Retry state.
Now I read somewhere that it could help to reset network state and the microprocessor in one go, by powering on while holding the UP and DOWN arrow keys on the front panel. Did the same trick, and after the display flashing for a couple of seconds, I released the buttons and the receiver restarted itself, and out of the 'Update Retry" loop.
WELL, now I had to redo my Audyssey calibration again and saved the configuration file to my laptop before I tried the firmware update shenanigans again.
This morning, I summoned up my courage once again, and started the firmware update process. I got the notification of an update available, so I accepted the prompt to start the process, got past the authentication stage, and was greeted with the estimate that the update process could take 40 mins. I started the process, and the receiver said "Contacting the server ..." and stood there for about nervous 5mins before it started the actual update. It said "DSP .. 39 mins, Updating xx %" and got through that stage in about an hour or so.
Now, another stage of update got kicked off, saying "GUI ... 3min, Updating xx%" and then the minute counter decreased from 3 to 2 to 1 minutes, and to my surprise, it the estimate inched back up to 3 minutes. It kept flashing "Updating -> -> ->" and the minute counter now goes in a loop of 03min ... 02min ... 01min ... 03min ... 02min ... 01min ... 03min ... etc. Now the receiver has been sitting at this update for more than 3 hours now.
I am afraid to reset the receiver for the fear of bricking it.
Anyone with a similar experience, please let me know what you did. This is extremely frustrating, and Denon support is closed till after the New Year. mad.gifmad.gifmad.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

I have been dealing with the same network gremlins as you are, as detailed in my post from yesterday quoted above. Now my receiver has been "updating the GUI" as part of the firmware update, going on for close to 24 hours now. mad.gifmad.gif The blasted Denon support number was shut off early yesterday and won't open back till 01/02. I will let this crap go on till tomorrow when the support line opens and I can give them an earful. Meanwhile, I'm back, hooked up to my trusted Marantz SR5001 this dog of a Denon was meant to replace. rolleyes.gif

[I'm waiting for a new TV stand to come in in the next couple of weeks, after that order had been cancelled as out of stock by two separate vendors on Amazon. eek.gifeek.gif Happy New Year !! rolleyes.gifsmile.gif]

I apologize for quoting a train of my own posts, but I hope by posting my experiences would help someone down the lane, as I pretty much did not find any help to my problems searching on this forum.

Finally, got to talk to Denon support this morning, I was advised to just yank the power plug and power it back up. The receiver came back up as if nothing had happened, and I was advised to do a network reset and try to update during night time, as there were only TWO servers handling the firmware updates for the whole US/Canada customer base. eek.gifeek.gifrolleyes.gif

I got a firmware update notice while I was getting ready to leave to work, and against my better instincts, I let the receiver kick off the update process. The receiver estimated an update time of 22 mins this time, and after a couple of minutes, the receiver shut down, but never powered back up. mad.gif Cursing my luck, I went to work, and as soon as I came back home, tried to power the receiver back. Now, there is no video output from the receiver, on either of the HDMI outputs. I cycled through all the inputs, and no luck. Did the network and microprocessor reboot tricks a couple of times to the same outcome, but this time, the resets did not kickoff a new receiver setup routine. Selecting the Setup option on the receiver does not start the Setup Assistant either. rolleyes.gifmad.gif The receiver could still be controlled using the browser-based Web Controller interface, but the receiver does not want to go into the Setup Assistant anymore.

I switched the sources and outputs to my trusty old Marantz sitting by its side, and lo and behold, everything is working fine. I called up Denon support again, and am being recommended to ship the receiver back to be replaced.mad.gif Now I am back to the old and familiar comfort of my Marantz SR-5001, and have to wait for the ordeal of return shipment and replacement to wind through its course.

Hopefully, some people will find some useful information in the accounts above.
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post #4416 of 10822 Old 01-02-2013, 09:21 PM
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My avr-1713 is saying there's a new firmware available--anyone know what this addresses?
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post #4417 of 10822 Old 01-02-2013, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Friesen View Post

My avr-1713 is saying there's a new firmware available--anyone know what this addresses?

Assuming your receiver shipped with the most recent firmware release prior to the December update, at the very least, this firmware update will add Spotify streaming capability and fix some broken functionality regarding Pandora internet music streaming service and how it works on the xx13 series of receivers.
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post #4418 of 10822 Old 01-02-2013, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

Did you change your volume display to the DB meter style as recommended? If you did, as you get closer to 0db (reference level) it should be plenty loud. Most higher-end AVRs and amps have used the DB scale for quite some time now so the user would know when they were at "reference level", it is just now starting to trickle down to the mid/lower end components.

Yes I did change the scale to the db meter as suggested. I just received the surrounds today and got them installed. I plan on getting all of the cable mess cleaned up and get everything in its proper place this weekend. Once that is done I plan on running Audyssey to dial it in a little better. The one thing I have noticed is the volume seems much louder when listening to internet radio stations than it is when listening to a CD or Movie, perhaps those input levels need to be turned up?

One question I have is, how do you really know what "Reference Level" is when you have two inputs that seem to have different volume levels when set to the same db level?
I guess the only way to know for sure is to buy an SPL meter... But then, what is Audyssey for?

I know....room acoustics....

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post #4419 of 10822 Old 01-02-2013, 09:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

Yes I did change the scale to the db meter as suggested. I just received the surrounds today and got them installed. I plan on getting all of the cable mess cleaned up and get everything in its proper place this weekend. Once that is done I plan on running Audyssey to dial it in a little better. The one thing I have noticed is the volume seems much louder when listening to internet radio stations than it is when listening to a CD or Movie, perhaps those input levels need to be turned up?
One question I have is, how do you really know what "Reference Level" is when you have two inputs that seem to have different volume levels when set to the same db level?
I guess the only way to know for sure is to buy an SPL meter... But then, what is Audyssey for?
I know....room acoustics....

Internet radio, and for that matter ALL radio (AM, FM, XM, HDR, Internet Radio, etc.) compresses the ever loving heck out of music, to the point that the music loses most of its dynamics. I am paraphrasing this, but the lack of dynamics often gets covered up by increasing the [mastering] volume of the songs. Hence, switching from a CD or movie to an internet radio can sometimes suddenly make the audio appear too loud in comparison. Loudness =/= clarity and dynamics, of course.
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post #4420 of 10822 Old 01-02-2013, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

Internet radio, and for that matter ALL radio (AM, FM, XM, HDR, Internet Radio, etc.) compresses the ever loving heck out of music, to the point that the music loses most of its dynamics. I am paraphrasing this, but the lack of dynamics often gets covered up by increasing the [mastering] volume of the songs. Hence, switching from a CD or movie to an internet radio can sometimes suddenly make the audio appear too loud in comparison. Loudness =/= clarity and dynamics, of course.

That sounds reasonable, it's like those TV commercials that blow you out of your seat....Compressed audio...
I haven't had much of a chance to play around with it, or go thru the manual completely for that matter.
Does this AVR have the capability of turning various inputs up or down a couple db so as not to be blown out of my seat when switching inputs?

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post #4421 of 10822 Old 01-02-2013, 10:26 PM
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So whats the deal with Sirius/XM on the 2113CI model, as long as I have it hard wired with ethernet to my home network, I can then play Sirius/XM music through my AVR? (Assuming I have a Sirius/XM account with the internet service, which I do.)

Is this right? No special outside hardware or antennas?
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post #4422 of 10822 Old 01-02-2013, 10:49 PM
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I got my new 2113 today and set it up, updated the firmware and ran Audyssey.

1) Firmware out of the box was 1490-1119-0000-4220-0867. It took about 12 mins of cylcling thru 3,2,1 mins left several times, before the display said it was back in Blu-Ray. I checked Firmware and it had all digits the same except the second to last set of four #'s was now -8200 instead of -4220. Very happy that went good!

2) in Set Up/Spkrs/ Manual SetUp/Spkrs/Bass
a) Sub = LFE (not LFE + main)
b)** LPF for LFE = 120Hz (default) Is this where it should be? I do not understand this setting.
3) Crossovers: Audyssey set my front L & R at 120hz crossover! WT heck?? What would cause this? I had manually set the fronts to small before running Audyssey. Should I have left them as large and let Audyssey change them to small ??(Axiom M-80 towers. My 1909's MultEq always set crossovers at 80hz for these.)
Center 80hz and Surr back 90hz were same as before. Side surr were set at 60hz. Was always 80hz before. (But with these 8" in wall spkrs, I can believe XT just saw them differently than MultEq.)
4) I cannot find where to set the analog inputs (and rename them) for the VCR (plugged into 'DVD' labeled RCA & video inputs) and my XM receiver (plugged into RCA labeled 'CD'.
5) Cannot yet find how to change the sound mode on the Blu-Ray from Mult CH Stereo to Plexll Cinema

PS. VERY glad to have subwoofers again after frying my 1909's subwoofer channel! biggrin.gif
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post #4423 of 10822 Old 01-02-2013, 11:23 PM
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^^ @davekro

There is no connection between the physical size of the speakers and how Audyssey configures it in its calibration calculations. The size it specifies depends on how the speakers measure in the room they are in, as per Audyssey's calibration measurements. Audyssey has a very nice blog title Small vs. Large on this very topic at http://www.audyssey.com/blog/2009/05/small-vs-large/. A small quote from that blog"
Quote:
Do you have a subwoofer in your system? Great. Then your speakers are small. Before you get all upset, read on. This is one of those audio myths whose time has come to be busted. ...

Regarding your LPF for LFE question and the 120 Hz setting, once again here is what Chris from Audyssey says on their website at https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/321931-lpf-on-lfe:
Quote:
It's a filter that is applied to the content of the separate LFE track found in 5.1 content. That content is authored up to 120 Hz and so the only correct setting is 120 Hz.
Quote:
The LPF filter for the LFE channel should always be set to 120 Hz. Any other setting is wrong. This filter has nothing to do with speaker roll offs and crossovers. It is a filter that is applied only to the separate LFE track found in 5.1 content. That material is authored to have content up to 120 Hz.

The crossover filter are a separate matter. They consist of a highpass and lowpass filter that is applied to the signal sent to each speaker. They are determined after the in-room measurements find the roll off points of each speaker.
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post #4424 of 10822 Old 01-02-2013, 11:55 PM
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raaj,
Thanks for reply. I am aware that when a subs used all speakers should be set as small. My confusion is why do from fronts which are very capable of producing below 80hz (where Audyssey MultEq on my 1909 always set them and I believe to be the proper level so the sub does the heavy lifting for 80hz and below), NOW get set by Audyssey XT to 120hz crossover, especially when my physically smaller center and surround speakers are (properly) set at lower crossovers (C 80hz, L&R 60hz, backs 90hz). I must have done something wrong in settings before running Audyssey. I thought sure I had always (and was supposed to have) set my fronts manually to small before running Audyssey. Late now, fog in head... Will stop tryin to think and watch/ fall asleep to a Big Bang Theory episode.

Thanks for info on LPF for LFE = 120Hz . I see now that IS the proper and only setting. redface.gif)

Still looking for answers to 3), 4), and 5).
Guten nacht all
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post #4425 of 10822 Old 01-03-2013, 12:10 AM
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There are no settings for Audyssey to consider, because Audyssey starts every measurement from zero (null), meaning that all individual presets will always be ignored.
Because Audyssey measures the in-room frequency response, any individual characteristics of each and every speaker will be taken into account. Whatever the manufacturers has stated in terms of frequency response etc. will be irrelevant and thus ignored, because only the measured response will be taken for suggested crossover frequencies.

You might influence the outcome by repositioning of individual speakers and sub plus considering a different seating / listening position.
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post #4426 of 10822 Old 01-03-2013, 02:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stepalex View Post

Is Denon 3313 capable of playing ALAC from a USB stick? I have noticed "ALAC" in the firmware changes, but it is not stated directly anywhere in the specs or manual... Thanks.

So, can ANYONE please confirm that 3313 is capable of playing Apple Lossless from a USB stick?
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post #4427 of 10822 Old 01-03-2013, 02:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

That sounds reasonable, it's like those TV commercials that blow you out of your seat....Compressed audio...
I haven't had much of a chance to play around with it, or go thru the manual completely for that matter.
Does this AVR have the capability of turning various inputs up or down a couple db so as not to be blown out of my seat when switching inputs?

Yes, you can change the center channel volume using the "Dialogue Level" setting which is where 85% of the dialog comes from.

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post #4428 of 10822 Old 01-03-2013, 02:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisjmccord View Post

So whats the deal with Sirius/XM on the 2113CI model, as long as I have it hard wired with ethernet to my home network, I can then play Sirius/XM music through my AVR? (Assuming I have a Sirius/XM account with the internet service, which I do.)
Is this right? No special outside hardware or antennas?

Correct, no additional hardware or antennas required (as is the case with older models with the Sirius or XM jacks).

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post #4429 of 10822 Old 01-03-2013, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davekro View Post

4) I cannot find where to set the analog inputs (and rename them) for the VCR (plugged into 'DVD' labeled RCA & video inputs) and my XM receiver (plugged into RCA labeled 'CD'.
5) Cannot yet find how to change the sound mode on the Blu-Ray from Mult CH Stereo to Plexll Cinema
biggrin.gif

4. Analog inputs cannot be reset/assigned.
5. Huh? With the BDP set to "bitstream" and Secondary Audio set to "OFF", the bitstream DD/DTS track will pass to the AVR which will then decode it while displaying the track format (DD or DTS) on the front panel display. With the BDP set to PCM or LPCM, the BDP decodes the DD/DTS audio first and then passes it to the AVR which will display "Mult CH IN". If the BDP is only passing a stereo signal, the surround mode on the AVR can be changed from "Mult CH Stereo" to "DD PLII - Cinema" while pressing and holding the MOVIE button on the remote for a few seconds.

Also note that Audyssey doesn't set the speaker LARGE/SMALL or crossover settings, rather the AVR does this after Audyssey passes the -3db point to the AVR.

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post #4430 of 10822 Old 01-03-2013, 04:58 AM
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Strider: About the merit of Denon Link HD
They like it a lot in this German review (kind of translated by Google, then refined by me smile.gif): Thanks to Denon Link HD, the Denon AV receiver acts as the master clock. It alone determines the clock, which means that timing inaccuracies are a thing of the past. Also, the dynamic range increases. In listening tests, we were hearing extremely precise, vivid and spatially smooth playback - especially with current HD audio formats Denon Link enhances the audio quality noticeably.
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post #4431 of 10822 Old 01-03-2013, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Correct, no additional hardware or antennas required (as is the case with older models with the Sirius or XM jacks).

Thanks jdsmoothie! The wonders of the internet!
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post #4432 of 10822 Old 01-03-2013, 09:23 AM
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I'm setting up a new 2312ci and wondering if it's just me or are the Denon HDMI connections a little shallower than some other brands. I did a forum search and
didn't see any reference to it. Most of my other devices such as Panasonic TV, Bluray, Samsung TV and Bluray, DirecTV box the HDMI cable
seems to fit better.
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post #4433 of 10822 Old 01-03-2013, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanL View Post

I'm setting up a new 2312ci and wondering if it's just me or are the Denon HDMI connections a little shallower than some other brands. I did a forum search and
didn't see any reference to it. Most of my other devices such as Panasonic TV, Bluray, Samsung TV and Bluray, DirecTV box the HDMI cable
seems to fit better.

If you have a 2312, you may want to post in the xx12 owners' thread.

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post #4434 of 10822 Old 01-03-2013, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

That sounds reasonable, it's like those TV commercials that blow you out of your seat....Compressed audio...
I haven't had much of a chance to play around with it, or go thru the manual completely for that matter.
Does this AVR have the capability of turning various inputs up or down a couple db so as not to be blown out of my seat when switching inputs?

Yes, each input has a trim setting.
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post #4435 of 10822 Old 01-03-2013, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davekro View Post

4) I cannot find where to set the analog inputs (and rename them) for the VCR (plugged into 'DVD' labeled RCA & video inputs) and my XM receiver (plugged into RCA labeled 'CD'.
5) Cannot yet find how to change the sound mode on the Blu-Ray from Mult CH Stereo to Plexll Cinema

PS. VERY glad to have subwoofers again after frying my 1909's subwoofer channel! biggrin.gif

On (4), remember that analog inputs are NOT assignable. They are tied to the named labeling on the back.

For (5), in addition to what JD noted, you should read this post on my website as surround control is different on the new models compared to your 1909: http://batpigworld.com/wp/?p=150

Quote:
My confusion is why do from fronts which are very capable of producing below 80hz (where Audyssey MultEq on my 1909 always set them and I believe to be the proper level so the sub does the heavy lifting for 80hz and below), NOW get set by Audyssey XT to 120hz crossover, especially when my physically smaller center and surround speakers are (properly) set at lower crossovers (C 80hz, L&R 60hz, backs 90hz). I must have done something wrong in settings before running Audyssey.

As noted above, settings applied before Audyssey are irrelevant, it starts from scratch when calibrating the system.

The change in crossover could be due to room acoustics, there may be a null around 100Hz or so that is causing Audyssey to "see" a higher roll-off on the front speakers. The crossover is calculated based on all measurement points, so the fact that you are getting a different result than with the 1909 could be due to slightly different physical locations of the mic. I would recommend trying to adjust the speaker position slightly and trying again.

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post #4436 of 10822 Old 01-03-2013, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceh383 View Post

One question I have is, how do you really know what "Reference Level" is when you have two inputs that seem to have different volume levels when set to the same db level?
I guess the only way to know for sure is to buy an SPL meter... But then, what is Audyssey for?

I know....room acoustics....

Here is a good read on "Reference Level" from the Audyssey 101/FAQ: http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51750#user_a3

Audyssey is doing a lot more than simply calibrating the volume, setting the levels is a pretty simple task, the magic is in the room EQ filters that correct the acoustic response.

The thing with "reference level" though is that it's only actually relevant when a source is mixed to that reference... in short, movies. And then that's when played from a "good" source like a Blu-ray or DVD... who knows what happens to the levels when you get a Netflix stream or a movie on a cable TV channel.

Other sources -- video games, music, broadcast TV, etc. -- are NOT mixed to any universal reference standard, unlike the film industry. So the actual levels could be all over the map, although they tend to be louder than film, and/or with more compressed dynamic range as was just discussed above. This is why there is a "reference level offset" setting which allows you to trim back how much boost Dyn EQ is applying for these non-film sources. This is a good read on that topic: http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51750#user_g3

So in summary, you only know what "reference level" is with film sources, and in these cases reference level is calibrated specifically by Audyssey to be 0dB (or 80 on the regular scale) precisely. So if you listen to a movie at -15dB (or 65) on the volume dial, you know you are hearing the movie precisely at 15dB lower than what would have been heard by the mixer in the dubbing stage or in a calibrated cinema. Layering on Dynamic EQ then helps maintain the tonal balance, because as you turn the volume down for more realistic home volumes, you start to lose the sense of bass response, surround immersion, and also soft sounds can become less audible as they fall closer to the noise floor.
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post #4437 of 10822 Old 01-03-2013, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrnewquist View Post

If you have a 2312, you may want to post in the xx12 owners' thread.


Sorry that was a typo. It's a 2313ci. Bought new this week.
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Considering a 3313-CI to replace an Onkyo 707. We have ATT U-Verse and on the comedy channel it keeps dropping the audio after fast forward or rewind. Have to power off and on again to get it back. Seems to be unique to the comedy channel.

I did search this thread and found some short term sound drop issues reported.

Does anyone with U-Verse have any issues with the 3313? How did you overcome them ?

Thanks,
Craig.
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post #4439 of 10822 Old 01-03-2013, 11:29 AM
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Question:

I have 2 subs and my main listening position is not equidistant from each sub. One is about 5' away, the other about 10'.

Using my 2113ci, what should I set the sub distance to be? Or, should I just leave it at the distance Audyssey calibrated?
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post #4440 of 10822 Old 01-03-2013, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMyers View Post

Couple of questions for the 2113 or 2313 (I suspect the answers are probably the same for all the xx13 models)
1) Does anyone know what video latency is added by the HDMI switching / overlay functionality? While any result to the audio can clearly be addressed by the receiver, I'm wondering if it has an impact on games.
2) When doing 3D content (3d Bluray), what does the Denon UI look like? Or does it simply not appear while doing 3D content?
3) I was disappointed the 2113 only has 2 digital audio inputs (only 1 optical and one coax) because HDMI connectivity issues aren't as uncommon as one might hope... and when that occurs, you will need these inputs. I've heard that the Dennon has less compatibility issues than, say, Onyko ... but don't have any hard data to support this. Anyone have a gut feel regarding how often HDMI issues pop up? (BTW, I'm not blaming Denon or the source device or the sync device, just noting that it occurs).
4) And finally, anyone know of a traditional review of the Denon audio (7 channels under full load) somewhere? I've looked and haven't found anything that actually measures the loaded output and sound quality. There is a lot of talk about features, which is great, but not so much this area.
Thanks!

I found in the denon manual the follow regarding 3D

"
- When playing back 3D video content, the menu screen or status display screen can be superimposed over the image. However, the menu screen or status display screen cannot be superimposed over certain 3D video content.
- If 3D video with no 3D information is input, the menu screen and status display on this unit are displayed over the playback video.
"

So basically it looks like there is no UI if you have 3D.

I'd appreciate hearing if anyone knows of an "official" review of the 2113 or 2313 as well as any comments on latency introduced by the video processing.

Thanks for the info in this thread!
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