The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 163 - AVS Forum
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post #4861 of 10785 Old 01-17-2013, 11:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Please note that the "fixed volume" component only applies to the pre-outs; if you are only running a 5.1 setup and reassigning the two surr.back amps to power zone 2, then you can control the volume internally with the receiver. This is exactly how I have my 2113 setup, powering two speakers in the back yard with the surr.back amps and a 5.1 setup in main zone.

If you use the pre-outs, the volume control will either be supplied by the external amp itself, or by some other in-line volume control. Many dedicated 2ch amps don't have volume controls themselves, but if you wanted to go this route you could just an old stereo receiver and control the volume via the second receiver. Or you could feed Zone 2 pre-outs to an amp, and then run the speaker wire to the speakers, with some sort of wall-mounted volume control dial in-line between the amps and the speakers.

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post #4862 of 10785 Old 01-17-2013, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erling1000 View Post

I have an avr3313 and Spotify Premium.
Everytime I want to use Spotify on my Denon I have to login, quite annoying with my remote.
It's when I use remote control or Denon Remote App on my iPhone 4S. But whenever I use pc or iPhone Spotify App I don't have to login anymore...

Anyone know how to solve this?

Btw. Have read more than ½ this thread and did search before asking smile.gif

I have a 3313 and Spotify Premium, too, and ran into this initially. Thinking back on it... I finally realized that it happened any time I hit the "back" button to exit Spotify, with the idea of listening to another network streaming service or to get Spotify to stop playing. Instead, what you want to do is just select Network again and not hit the back button to exit out of Spotify.

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post #4863 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Definitely sounds like an HDMI handshake issue. You can test this for yourself by simply changing the order/timing of power on for your components.

Thanks - I will give that a try when I get home
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post #4864 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Please note that the "fixed volume" component only applies to the pre-outs; if you are only running a 5.1 setup and reassigning the two surr.back amps to power zone 2, then you can control the volume internally with the receiver. This is exactly how I have my 2113 setup, powering two speakers in the back yard with the surr.back amps and a 5.1 setup in main zone.

If you use the pre-outs, the volume control will either be supplied by the external amp itself, or by some other in-line volume control. Many dedicated 2ch amps don't have volume controls themselves, but if you wanted to go this route you could just an old stereo receiver and control the volume via the second receiver. Or you could feed Zone 2 pre-outs to an amp, and then run the speaker wire to the speakers, with some sort of wall-mounted volume control dial in-line between the amps and the speakers.

Thanks!
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post #4865 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 07:23 AM
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I just got the 1613 and I ran Audyssey with the sub half way. I got -12 and 24 feet distance when it's only 12 feet away from my couch position. I turned it the gain down two notches and got the same thing. I turned it down to 1/4 way and got the same thing. I turned it down to again and Audyssey couldn't read the sub. I turned it up one notch and Audyssey heard it, but still gave me a -12 with 24 feet distance. I have a Klipsch 10" sub. Am I doing something wrong?
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post #4866 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 07:23 AM
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The information provided by Batpig and JDSmoothie is amazing. They provide detailed responses to all posts regardless of how many times they have answered the same questions usually posted by those who do not want to search the foum. I have never seen the answers to the following questions:

My questions to these gentlemen is how do you do it? It must take you hours each night to respond to posts from newbies to the audio receiver world, as well as audiophiles. Do you have families, do you work for a living? Don't you ever get mad at some posters?

I seriously would like to know how you do this every day of the week?

p.s. Your dedication and expertise are very much appreciated by this poster. Thank you both very much. biggrin.gif
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post #4867 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Honestly I would recommend upgrading the receiver. The 3310 had some issues -- defective network card, and only regular MultEQ. Upgrading to the 3312 or 3313 will get you better networking (including AirPlay, Pandora, etc), better sound quality with MultEQ XT, iPad / smartphone app control, more flexibility for DSX speaker installs, etc. I wouldn't necessarily say overall quality will be better in terms of build or amps, but you will get more features and reliability.

You can't go to the 2313 because it doesn't have pre-outs for your NHT Power5 amplifier, you have to stick to the 33xx level or higher. I don't know what your budget is but if you REALLY want to step it up in sound quality I would start looking around for any leftover 4311ci that are floating around. That will step you up to MultEQ XT32, the best room correction available, and also allow you to expand your system beyond 7 channels. And if you add a second sub it has sophisticated dual sub correction (SubEQ HT).

Won't be a huge difference in video performance as the 3310 already has the very competent ABT video chip.

A used/refurbished Denon AVR-4311ci isnt out of the budget at all. I was also looking at maybe moving up to something that doesnt have the amp built in, maybe something more next level (maybe the 4311/4520 is next level?). What brands would you suggest? What should i look for?

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post #4868 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

The thing with HDMI handshake problems is that they aren't consistent or predictable. You might be perfectly fine, and experience no issues. Or you might. The good news is that most components have no problems, it's almost always isolated to either Cable/Sat boxes or HTPC's.

I know this is only a stopgap but I would still strongly recommend against the 1513. Others have reported finding 1613 open box models for under $250 at Best Buy, or you can find good deals on refurb models at Accessories4less.com with 1-year warranties. You can get a 1612 refurb for $199 and it will crush the 1513 in features and sound quality. The difference that MultEQ + Dynamic EQ/Vol makes in terms of real world sound quality is profound, it's really worth it.

Great info, thank you!! The words "crush" and "profound" have really started me thinking hard about upping my receiver choice to either the 1612 or 1613. I may have to wait a couple of months, though.

I have to do more reading about Audyssey, because I thought it was just about balancing the speaker levels but now I see it does EQ magic also. Sorry for my ignorance!

Any advantage to the 1613 vs the 1612 beyond features like Airplay? I looked at the specs but couldn't see much difference. Please feel free to tell me to read this thread from the beginning if you're tired of answering questions like this. wink.gif
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post #4869 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impala1ss View Post

The information provided by Batpig and JDSmoothie is amazing. They provide detailed responses to all posts regardless of how many times they have answered the same questions usually posted by those who do not want to search the foum. I have never seen the answers to the following questions:

My questions to these gentlemen is how do you do it? It must take you hours each night to respond to posts from newbies to the audio receiver world, as well as audiophiles. Do you have families, do you work for a living? Don't you ever get mad at some posters?

I seriously would like to know how you do this every day of the week?

p.s. Your dedication and expertise are very much appreciated by this poster. Thank you both very much. biggrin.gif

+ ONE MILLION to this!
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post #4870 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Impala1ss View Post

The information provided by Batpig and JDSmoothie is amazing. They provide detailed responses to all posts regardless of how many times they have answered the same questions usually posted by those who do not want to search the foum. I have never seen the answers to the following questions:

My questions to these gentlemen is how do you do it? It must take you hours each night to respond to posts from newbies to the audio receiver world, as well as audiophiles. Do you have families, do you work for a living? Don't you ever get mad at some posters?

I seriously would like to know how you do this every day of the week?

p.s. Your dedication and expertise are very much appreciated by this poster. Thank you both very much. biggrin.gif


Thanks for the kind words smile.gif

Can't speak for JD, but yes I do have a day job, a wife, a small child (18 month old daughter). The addition of the baby has definitely diminished my overall participation level... 2-3 years ago I was even more active. JD at this point seems to be much more active on this forum than me. There are a lot of things I want to do with my website but I just don't have the time and inclination during my off hours because family time is more important.

Ironically, the fact that I have a job is actually the reason I am as active as I am! Like many, I am stuck at a desk working on a computer most of the day, and thus the bulk of my internet surfing is done while at work. I always have a browser open in the background with things like email, facebook, AVS, etc. open in different tabs. So I frequently will take breaks and refresh my subscriptions page, and if there are new posts I can read through them and respond when needed. Honestly, it doesn't take *that* long to bang out some responses to basic questions. When I'm not at work, I'm often checking on iPhone or iPad, so I will usually only respond if I can provide an answer quickly enough to make typing on that little virtual keyboard palatable, and then respond to more involved questions later at a time when I have access to a real keyboard (typically the next morning at work).

So, following on that, my most active times are during "business hours", and I rarely check in during the evenings and especially weekends, when I am typically hanging out with the wife and kid.

As to how I do it... I honestly enjoy it. I'm the type that becomes obsessed with my hobbies, so I spend a lot of my internet time on forums related to that. With HT, it's AVS. And I'm sort of naturally a teacher at heart, so I like explaining things to people and trying to frame it in ways that they can understand.

As to the final question... no, I don't really get mad at any posters. At least not sincere ones who are looking for help. There's no shame in not knowing something; modern A/V is a complicated subject area, and lack of knowledge isn't synonymous with stupidity or lack of effort. Lord knows there are subject areas where if I tried to wade in, I would be asking a bunch of silly basic questions as well. The only time I get annoyed is when somebody gets rude (e.g. when people bump their post after 45 minutes and act indignant about the fact that they haven't received an immediate response) or in the face of willful ignorance.

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post #4871 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sojodave View Post

I just got the 1613 and I ran Audyssey with the sub half way. I got -12 and 24 feet distance when it's only 12 feet away from my couch position. I turned it the gain down two notches and got the same thing. I turned it down to 1/4 way and got the same thing. I turned it down to again and Audyssey couldn't read the sub. I turned it up one notch and Audyssey heard it, but still gave me a -12 with 24 feet distance. I have a Klipsch 10" sub. Am I doing something wrong?

The distance component isn't a problem -- it's perfectly normal for a subwoofer to "measure long". What Audyssey (or any other calibration system) is measuring is actually delay, not distance. It's represented as distance because "7 feet" is easier to understand than 700 milliseconds or whatever, but the point of the process is to "time align" the system so that all the sounds from each speaker reach your ears at the same time.

Because subwoofers (unlike passive speakers) have internal circuitry like low pass filters, gain controls, phase adjustment, etc. there is a slight delay and thus the "distance" acoustically may be measured as longer than the literal physical distance.

Now the level part..... that's a problem. It's a bit shocking that you are still getting -12dB even at the minimal subwoofer level! Do you have access to an SPL meter? It may be helpful to have some sort of external measurement to spot check what's happening.

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post #4872 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 10:22 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by schwegs99 View Post

A used/refurbished Denon AVR-4311ci isnt out of the budget at all. I was also looking at maybe moving up to something that doesnt have the amp built in, maybe something more next level (maybe the 4311/4520 is next level?). What brands would you suggest? What should i look for?

If the 4311ci is in your budget then that's what I would suggest. It's packed with features, rock solid reliable, and a proven performer. I wouldn't worry about the fact that the amps are built in -- there are some pre/pros out there with XT32 but they are typically even more expensive than the receivers. The 4311ci is a real bargain if you can get it for $1.3k or less.

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post #4873 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 10:29 AM
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My refurb AVR-3313 fell victim of a failed firmware update within days of receiving it, and Denon Support offered to replace it under warranty. I received the replacement yesterday, and was shocked to see that it looked like this:



I am curious about the dinged up top panels that seemed to have been placed on top of the regular top body panel of the chassis, and held together by clips. I don't remember the original receiver looking like that. Can those of you with non-refurb AVR-3313 receivers confirm if the top body panel of the receiver is indeed one single panel, and does not have these strap-on panels held together by some sort of clips? Makes me wonder what these panels are covering up underneath? Any thoughts??

I sent in a near mint condition receiver for replacement, and I receive this piece of crap? What's wrong with Denon?? rolleyes.gifmad.gif
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post #4874 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 11:07 AM
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Quite a few people have reported getting units with those additional panels. Apparently they're covering areas where the chassis gets particularly hot.

Obviously they shouldn't be banged up like that, though. What did the shipping boxes look like? "Concealed damage" is not all that uncommon -- where the box looks OK but the contents have dents.

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post #4875 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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if the chassis of the unit itself is clean and undented, I wouldn't worry about some warping in those "extra" panels. Nobody really knows why or when they started being added, but as Selden notes we speculate it's just some additional shielding for hot areas.

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post #4876 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 11:28 AM
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Thanks, Selden and Batpig!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Quite a few people have reported getting units with those additional panels. Apparently they're covering areas where the chassis gets particularly hot.

Obviously they shouldn't be banged up like that, though. What did the shipping boxes look like? "Concealed damage" is not all that uncommon -- where the box looks OK but the contents have dents.

The outside box had a couple of gashes, but nothing that tore through the box surface. The packing tape was ripped on one side, but this happened on the prior shipment directly from A4L too, but the inside receiver was unblemished, so I did not think of making a noise at the FedEx pickup office.
Quote:
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if the chassis of the unit itself is clean and undented, I wouldn't worry about some warping in those "extra" panels. Nobody really knows why or when they started being added, but as Selden notes we speculate it's just some additional shielding for hot areas.

As I posted above, the box wasn't too mangled up to cause those warpings - which hints that it might have happened during packaging or Denon support simply did not care two whits about sending this receiver with mauled-up panels as a replacement. eek.gif I will call them today and raise a stink. I shouldn't have to deal with this crap as a replacement for a receiver that was just a couple of days old. It's not like the 3313 is an old discontinued model that they might have had difficulty finding around to send as replacement. They had this mangled turd around, and they just tossed it my way. By the way, it's not Denon US handling the repairs/replacement, but rather Panurgy - who Denon has outsourced all the repair work to.

Both the strap-on panels and the chassis panels line up in terms of the perforated vents, so I don't see how they would help with additional cooling (?) to the hot areas. If anything additional material thickness should hinder surface dissipation of the heat, no?? Maybe it's additional magnetic shielding? The panels are not quite metallic - they have more of a organic/plastic feel - thus the reason why they mangled up so easily.

Having those mangled up panels will automatically hit the resale value of the receiver, should I ever feel the urge to upgrade in the future. Why should I take that hit for Denon's fault?
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post #4877 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

If the 4311ci is in your budget then that's what I would suggest. It's packed with features, rock solid reliable, and a proven performer. I wouldn't worry about the fact that the amps are built in -- there are some pre/pros out there with XT32 but they are typically even more expensive than the receivers. The 4311ci is a real bargain if you can get it for $1.3k or less.

Thanks BP. always helpful.

So what makes these other brands like, Arcam, Rotel, Anthem, McIntosh, and etc so expensive?

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post #4878 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 12:00 PM
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Thanks BP. always helpful.

So what makes these other brands like, Arcam, Rotel, Anthem, McIntosh, and etc so expensive?

Cachet

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post #4879 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raaj View Post

[...]
Both the strap-on panels and the chassis panels line up in terms of the perforated vents, so I don't see how they would help with additional cooling (?) to the hot areas. If anything additional material thickness should hinder surface dissipation of the heat, no?? Maybe it's additional magnetic shielding? The panels are not quite metallic - they have more of a organic/plastic feel - thus the reason why they mangled up so easily.
I suspect they're there to protect the unsuspecting user, not the equipment. Touching an unexpectedly hot surface can cause a startle reaction which might do more damage than the hot surface itself would.
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Having those mangled up panels will automatically hit the resale value of the receiver, should I ever feel the urge to upgrade in the future. Why should I take that hit for Denon's fault?
I agree.

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post #4880 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwegs99 View Post

Thanks BP. always helpful.

So what makes these other brands like, Arcam, Rotel, Anthem, McIntosh, and etc so expensive?

Cachet

Don't forget their tiny production runs result in fewer units, income from which has to pay for their high fixed overhead costs -- like engineering staff, administrative staff, etc.

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post #4881 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

I suspect they're there to protect the unsuspecting user, not the equipment. Touching an unexpectedly hot surface can cause a startle reaction which might do more damage than the hot surface itself would.
I agree.
Yup.. makes sense. Getting ready to call both A4L and Denon to see who will sort out this issue for me.
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post #4882 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Don't forget their tiny production runs result in fewer units, income from which has to pay for their high fixed overhead costs -- like engineering staff, administrative staff, etc.

well of course and good point.

just wondering if the inners are that much different from brand to brand. Like a Denon AVR-4520 or Pioneer Elite SC-68 line to a Marantz AV8801?

just trying to wrap my head around everything. im not new to this, but at the same time it feels like im new. after a few years you come to a point where you want to upgrade and you almost have to start over doing your research and what not.

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post #4883 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 12:49 PM
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To the extent that they're trying to perform equivalent functions, I'd expect high level designs to be quite similar these days. Details would still differ, though. Functions which previously were implemented by individually designed circuit boards full of transistors and other components now are available as integrated circuits from a small number of companies -- video processors, audio DSPs, ADCs, DACs, analog amplifiers, etc. I'm sure each A/V company has its own favorite set of chip suppliers, though, so the details of the circuit boards containing the chips would vary because the interconnections between the chips are different.

If you look at pictures of the innards of equipment from different companies, you'll also see different design philosophies. D&M boxes seem to contain circuit boards of different sizes crammed together as close as they can get them, interconnected by flexible cables, while McIntosh units seem to have circuit boards of uniform sizes, interconnected by sockets on their own boards instead of cables.

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post #4884 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 01:16 PM
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batpig, I just discovered your website, and wow!! The article on the Denon nomenclature alone was incredibly helpful!
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post #4885 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Definitely sounds like an HDMI handshake issue. You can test this for yourself by simply changing the order/timing of power on for your components.

Is there a preferred order for powering on components? In the chain, I simply have a DIrecTV receiver feeding the 2113 which feeds the display.
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post #4886 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sojodave View Post

I just got the 1613 and I ran Audyssey with the sub half way. I got -12 and 24 feet distance when it's only 12 feet away from my couch position. I turned it the gain down two notches and got the same thing. I turned it down to 1/4 way and got the same thing. I turned it down to again and Audyssey couldn't read the sub. I turned it up one notch and Audyssey heard it, but still gave me a -12 with 24 feet distance. I have a Klipsch 10" sub. Am I doing something wrong?

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post #4887 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by stixx View Post

Hi guys - I have a 2113 and have been noticing that the scaler does not seem to activate whenever I initially fire up my components to watch satellite. I have the scaler set to output 1080p to my Panny plasma. If I cycle the scaler on/off everything appears to work fine. Is it possibly the order that I am turning components on that is causing the issue?

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Originally Posted by stixx View Post

Is there a preferred order for powering on components? In the chain, I simply have a DIrecTV receiver feeding the 2113 which feeds the display.

You can tell a difference on D* with the Denon's scaler? I can't tell any difference at all, unless of course I look at the display on my TV to see what signal I'm getting.
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post #4888 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by deltadube View Post

just wondering how the sound quality compares in your opinion? im using a 3313ci but kinda wished i went for the 4520... but was a bit too much and now is to late...

cheers

I've had a chance to play with Audyssey and done some listening - the acoustics in my media room are challenging. Honestly, I can't really hear any meaningful difference in quality between the 4308CI and the 3313CI. I'm happy.
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post #4889 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

More likely a settings issue .. check VierraLink (TV) and HDMI Control (AVR) are both enabled. Once set, power off both devices and then power on the TV first, then the AVR. When working correctly the AVR wil switch to the TV input within about 10 seconds of powering on the AVR (which actually can become annoying so you may want to consider just keeping the optical cable connection as you'll get DD 5.1 audio that way while likely only getting PCM 2.0 over the HDMI(ARC)).

Also note that the 3313CI is the current successor to the 2808CI so a couple of models below your 4308CI whose current successor is the 4520CI.

I had HDMI control disabled on the 3313CI. After I enabled it, still nothing - until I powered off and on as you mentioned. Thanks!
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post #4890 of 10785 Old 01-18-2013, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by raaj View Post

My refurb AVR-3313 fell victim of a failed firmware update within days of receiving it, and Denon Support offered to replace it under warranty. I received the replacement yesterday, and was shocked to see that it looked like this:



I am curious about the dinged up top panels that seemed to have been placed on top of the regular top body panel of the chassis, and held together by clips. I don't remember the original receiver looking like that. Can those of you with non-refurb AVR-3313 receivers confirm if the top body panel of the receiver is indeed one single panel, and does not have these strap-on panels held together by some sort of clips? Makes me wonder what these panels are covering up underneath? Any thoughts??

I sent in a near mint condition receiver for replacement, and I receive this piece of crap? What's wrong with Denon?? rolleyes.gifmad.gif
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

I suspect they're there to protect the unsuspecting user, not the equipment. Touching an unexpectedly hot surface can cause a startle reaction which might do more damage than the hot surface itself would.
I agree.
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Originally Posted by raaj View Post

Yup.. makes sense. Getting ready to call both A4L and Denon to see who will sort out this issue for me.

Ok.. quick update on the issue documented above.

I just spoke with Denon support, and the rep advised me to just put my fingers underneath the panels and yank them clean off the chassis. He said he wasn't even sure why the panels were there to begin with, and yanking the panels off would not impact the warranty going forward. I asked the agent to document the conversation on the case file, and proceeded to yank the panels off. The clips just broke off, and thankfully, there were no blemishes being covered up underneath. Save for a couple of minor scrapes around the edges, there are no big blemishes on the receiver now.



Hopefully, there'd be no more surprises awaiting, while I setup the receiver.
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