The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 178 - AVS Forum
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post #5311 of 10739 Old 02-06-2013, 02:58 PM
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Looking to pick up an AVR for a new 7.1 setup. I will have the Panasonic ST50 plasma, Polk TSi CS10 center channel, Polk TSi 100s front right and left, and 4 of the in-ceiling Polk RC60i for the rear surround sides and backs.

I'm leaning towards the Denon 1913 as I would like Airplay, it has Audyssey setup (I'm an AVR newbie and would have no idea how to properly set it up), it seems to produce good quality sound and is pretty reliable. The main downside is the high price at about $580. I'm also considering the Yamaha V-673 and the Onkyo 616.

The Yamaha is similarly priced as the Denon and has similar features but adds some more connectivity (probably don't need it but never know), more zone 2 options (don't really have a zone 2 need and not really sure how I would wire more speakers to my AVR anyway), but replaces the Audyssey setup with their own setup version. The Onkyo 616 has a much lower price, the extra connectivity and zone 2 options like the Yamaha has and also has Audyssey. But it doesn't have Airplay and seems to have some significant reliability issues.

Lastly, this is going to be used predominantly for TV viewing via Fios (through a Tivo), some movies and maybe occasional music sprinkled in every now and then. I have basically no soundproofing in this room and have 3 kids under 11 who are often sleeping while I'm watching TV at night. So I need an AVR that can produce good clear sound even with lower volume levels and also has the ability to control some of the loud sound effects in movies so that an explosion in a movie I'm watching doesn't shake the whole house at 10:00 at night.

Any thoughts given the above? I realize I'm posting in a Denon owners thread so responses may be biased but that's ok. I really don't want to spend much more than the $580 for the 1913 but am willing to spend a little more if it was really worth it.
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post #5312 of 10739 Old 02-06-2013, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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First off, you can review the current models with detailed comparisons at the beginning of this thread.

Second, once you review that, you will know why the 2113ci is the correct answer. You get a 3rd year of warranty and the MultEQ XT calibration software is MUCH more advanced than the basic 2EQ version on the Onkyo.

Third, "street price" is much lower than msrp and if you pick up the phone and CALL a few authorized dealers (AVS, Electronics Expo, etc) you will be able to find the 2113ci for less than you are quoting for the 1913.

Fourth, since you specifically mention the desire for good sound quality at lower volume levels, you absolutely want to go with the Denon because of the full Audyssey package including Dynamic EQ + Volume, which are specifically designed to deal with this.

Answer: Denon 2113ci. Enjoy! smile.gif

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post #5313 of 10739 Old 02-06-2013, 03:42 PM
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I have the 1613 and I finally got my sub dialed in for Audyssey. I just got a second sub set up, how do I set up a second sub with Audyssey. I dialed each sub separately and then tried Audyssey with both hooked up. From my reading, two subs doesn't give you more volume. They aren't the exact same sub so I don't know if one is over powering the other. Any suggestions on how to get two subs dialed in for Audyssey?
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post #5314 of 10739 Old 02-06-2013, 03:47 PM
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Your best bet is to read through the Audyssey Setup Guide linked in my sig for dual sub setup. Ideally you want them equidistant from the main listening position and each level calibrated to the same volume with a SPL meter (or just use the Audyssey position #1 run twice). Once done, run Audyssey again and the volume should generally increase by about 3db although the goal of dual subs is "smoother" bass not necessarily "louder" bass. You also may want to try the sub crawl for positioning of each sub.

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post #5315 of 10739 Old 02-06-2013, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYHeel View Post

Looking to pick up an AVR for a new 7.1 setup. I will have the Panasonic ST50 plasma, Polk TSi CS10 center channel, Polk TSi 100s front right and left, and 4 of the in-ceiling Polk RC60i for the rear surround sides and backs.

I'm leaning towards the Denon 1913 as I would like Airplay, it has Audyssey setup (I'm an AVR newbie and would have no idea how to properly set it up), it seems to produce good quality sound and is pretty reliable. The main downside is the high price at about $580. I'm also considering the Yamaha V-673 and the Onkyo 616.

The Yamaha is similarly priced as the Denon and has similar features but adds some more connectivity (probably don't need it but never know), more zone 2 options (don't really have a zone 2 need and not really sure how I would wire more speakers to my AVR anyway), but replaces the Audyssey setup with their own setup version. The Onkyo 616 has a much lower price, the extra connectivity and zone 2 options like the Yamaha has and also has Audyssey. But it doesn't have Airplay and seems to have some significant reliability issues.

Lastly, this is going to be used predominantly for TV viewing via Fios (through a Tivo), some movies and maybe occasional music sprinkled in every now and then. I have basically no soundproofing in this room and have 3 kids under 11 who are often sleeping while I'm watching TV at night. So I need an AVR that can produce good clear sound even with lower volume levels and also has the ability to control some of the loud sound effects in movies so that an explosion in a movie I'm watching doesn't shake the whole house at 10:00 at night.

Any thoughts given the above? I realize I'm posting in a Denon owners thread so responses may be biased but that's ok. I really don't want to spend much more than the $580 for the 1913 but am willing to spend a little more if it was really worth it.

Refer to my post in the Great Deals forum and you can get the 2113CI this week for less than you expected to pay for the 1913. smile.gif

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post #5316 of 10739 Old 02-06-2013, 04:45 PM
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I am looking to replace my Lexicon MC1 and Monoprice switcher with a more reliable processor.... All roads seem to point to the Denon AVR-xx13, but I wish to ensure I am not disappointed.

I am very pleased with the sound processing that the Lexicon has delivered for the last 10 years, and would be happy with something that matches it's performance.

Can anybody tell me what the lowest Denon Model I could shoot for, and convince me of what higher models I should consider?

The only two things that really care about is smooth switching for my three HDMI inputs and good quality 7.1 sound processing...

btw... if there's a model with a better DVD scaler than a PS3, I would certainly consider that a bonus.

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Brace yourselves folks, I'm about to ask a totally subjective question so I apologize upfront. I just need a sounding board. So I just bought an open box denon 2113 from crutchfield and I'm feeling like I spent more than I needed when other less expensive options are out there. Particularly today, I'm thinking the Sony dn1030. So here it is, do you folks think I made a mistake? My setup is a panasonic 65vt50 and a 5.1 mirage nano sat v2 with floor standing fronts and a 12 in sub. I like to future proof as best I can afford, hence the 7.1, but I don't foresee an upgrade anytime in the near future. Thanks for your help and opinions.
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post #5318 of 10739 Old 02-06-2013, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
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If you think you spent too much drop down to the 1713, which is only 5.1 and drops video conversion and a year of warranty but is otherwise nearly the same as the 2113. Switching to the Sony will cause a major decrease in sound quality due to the lack of Audyssey MultEQ XT room calibration and Dynamic EQ/Volume.

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post #5319 of 10739 Old 02-06-2013, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slash View Post

I am looking to replace my Lexicon MC1 and Monoprice switcher with a more reliable processor.... All roads seem to point to the Denon AVR-xx13, but I wish to ensure I am not disappointed.

I am very pleased with the sound processing that the Lexicon has delivered for the last 10 years, and would be happy with something that matches it's performance.

Can anybody tell me what the lowest Denon Model I could shoot for, and convince me of what higher models I should consider?

The only two things that really care about is smooth switching for my three HDMI inputs and good quality 7.1 sound processing...

btw... if there's a model with a better DVD scaler than a PS3, I would certainly consider that a bonus.


No offense, but the Lexicon was a $5,000+ processor. How many people do you think are going to be cross-shopping this older high-level unit with modest consumer-level gear like the current xx13 Denons? Do you think anyone is going to be able to offer an informed comparison between these totally mismatched options?

Here's what you need to know: ALL of the current Denon models with MultEQ XT will sound the same. So go to the first two posts in this thread, compare the features, and buy the minimum model that meets your needs for features and connectivity.

Since you mention 7.1, that means you are looking at the "CI" models (2113, 2313, 3313) which all use the same video processing solution. Chances are these newer, 4k-scaling chips are slightly better than the PS3 for DVD scaling, but whether or not you notice the difference depends on your eyes, the size of your display, etc.

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post #5320 of 10739 Old 02-06-2013, 05:11 PM
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Thanks for the response batpig. My gut agrees with you. When would video up scaling be an important feature? Is this based on what older equipment you run?
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post #5321 of 10739 Old 02-06-2013, 06:33 PM
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Thanks. Will go buy it this evening. A delayed birthday present to myself wink.gif
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post #5322 of 10739 Old 02-06-2013, 07:15 PM
 
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post #5323 of 10739 Old 02-06-2013, 07:33 PM
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I think I made a mistake. I've never owned a receiver and just bought my first. I bought a refurbished 1613 for $236 that came out to $265 with shipping.

I'm hooking up directv, xbox 360, and blu ray player to it. All by HDMI. Connecting it to sharp 80" by HDMI.

I don't plan on adding any other equipment to it and I want to use HDMI for my connections. I don't listen to any music, all tv, bluray and Xbox.

Will be running 2 JTR triple 8s for L/R and a cap S for the mean time. Then adding a center JTR single 8 in a month or so and then two single 8s for surround about a month after that.

Will the 1613 be sufficient or should I have gone with another model?
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post #5324 of 10739 Old 02-06-2013, 08:07 PM
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Those JTR speakers are extremely efficient but rated at 4 ohms. The 1613 may be ok for moderate volumes. If you like to listen at higher volumes you may want to consider options that are rated 4-ohms stable.

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post #5325 of 10739 Old 02-06-2013, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by postrokfan View Post

Those JTR speakers are extremely efficient but rated at 4 ohms. The 1613 may be ok for moderate volumes. If you like to listen at higher volumes you may want to consider options that are rated 4-ohms stable.
Shows how much I know. I didn't even know anything about that.

Any recommendations for a receiver? I can return the denon.

Thx for the info.
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post #5326 of 10739 Old 02-06-2013, 09:18 PM
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I recently upgraded my home theater system to include a Denon AVR-3313CI and Panasonic VT50 plasma tv. I have a Bright house supplied Cisco Explorer cable box model 4640 HDC. I have everything running through the Denon receiver. I am currently experiencing intermittent cable box lock ups when powering up the tv, receiver, and cable box using my URC MX-850. I cannot seem to find the right combination of what should turn on first on the right amount of delay time to insert. When the cable box locks up I have to unplug it and plug it back in. Everything is then ok for a couple of days but the problem always returns. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank-You.
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post #5327 of 10739 Old 02-06-2013, 09:19 PM
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I'd say give it a try first and see how it performs before you upgrade to a different receiver.

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post #5328 of 10739 Old 02-06-2013, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by postrokfan View Post

I'd say give it a try first and see how it performs before you upgrade to a different receiver.

I appreciate the response. Will I easily know if I need to upgrade? I've never owned speakers or a receiver.
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post #5329 of 10739 Old 02-06-2013, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slash View Post

I am looking to replace my Lexicon MC1 and Monoprice switcher with a more reliable processor.... All roads seem to point to the Denon AVR-xx13, but I wish to ensure I am not disappointed.

I am very pleased with the sound processing that the Lexicon has delivered for the last 10 years, and would be happy with something that matches it's performance.

Can anybody tell me what the lowest Denon Model I could shoot for, and convince me of what higher models I should consider?

The only two things that really care about is smooth switching for my three HDMI inputs and good quality 7.1 sound processing...

btw... if there's a model with a better DVD scaler than a PS3, I would certainly consider that a bonus.

I'm familiar with the MC1 . Things have changed a lot in the A/V world in the past 10 or 15 years years and you might be surprised with the sound
quality of the newer receivers. I'm sure you were using separate amps so if you are going to continue using them you will need to go with the 3313ci
as that unit has the pre outs you will need.

Over the last 15 years or so I've owned Classe, Rotel, Anthem/Sonic Frontiers and I recently decided to simplify and downsize my set up. I wanted HDMI and ethernet
connections, things my older gear didn't have. I bought the 2313ci in December and it's doing everything I need very well.
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post #5330 of 10739 Old 02-07-2013, 05:16 AM
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Just installed a new Denon 3313CI...all working fine until I tried to do a firmware update. Unit froze for over 3 hours so I tried to restart a number of times...unit immediately went into retrying the update each time. I then did a network reset (up/down/power up). Went through initial setup again, but now I can't connect to the network. The network options are all dimmed out in the setup menu (other than showing current info such as DHCP on and 'friendly name'.

I called Denon and was told I should not have tried the update unless I was connected directly to the internet (plugged into cable modem, not while connected to the hardwired switch). We tried to do a firmware update by connecting directly to the cable modem, but the update option was dimmed out. They told me I needed to send the unit back to a service center to have the network card replaced.

I would appreciate any last ditch efforts to rescue the unit as I would prefer not to ship it off for service.

Thanks!
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post #5331 of 10739 Old 02-07-2013, 05:48 AM
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I have a chance to save $75 by switching from 2113 to 2312. Should i go for it?
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post #5332 of 10739 Old 02-07-2013, 05:51 AM
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I think the Denon rep was wrong when he told you that you should not have attempted the update when connected to a hard-wired switch.
Even with that, I'm not sure what you can do at this point, so I'll let others reply. Is it too late to return to where you bought it and get a replacement?

I hope you get it worked out. I have the same receiver and love it.
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post #5333 of 10739 Old 02-07-2013, 06:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkEHansen View Post

I think the Denon rep was wrong when he told you that you should not have attempted the update when connected to a hard-wired switch.

My 3313 goes through 2 managed switches and a router before the DSL modem and has no issue with firmware updates nor any other Internet related features. So a direct connection to the modem is not necessary. I think Denon probably recommends a direct connection as a safeguard. Many home networks are comprised of cheap junk and are improperly configured. Recommending a direct connection removes all these variables.
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post #5334 of 10739 Old 02-07-2013, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by praz View Post

My 3313 goes through 2 managed switches and a router before the DSL modem and has no issue with firmware updates nor any other Internet related features. So a direct connection to the modem is not necessary. I think Denon probably recommends a direct connection as a safeguard. Many home networks are comprised of cheap junk and are improperly configured. Recommending a direct connection removes all these variables.

As noted, many do fine without direct connection, but Denon suggested this as a safeguard. I was hard wired to a brand new gigabit switch, so that should not have been an issue.

Denon did tell me that they do not recommend even doing firmware updates unless absolutely necessary. It's obvious based on what I've read and what Denon told me that there are flaws in the software or hardware which need to be worked out.

I was lucky enough to have bought the 3313 (along with a 2113 and a couple of russound amps and a pallet of speakers) from AVS. They are going to send me a replacement unit so I won't have to ship off to a service center. I'll also take this opportunity to say how nice it was working with Mike. I highly recommend working with them.
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post #5335 of 10739 Old 02-07-2013, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slash View Post

I am looking to replace my Lexicon MC1 and Monoprice switcher with a more reliable processor.... All roads seem to point to the Denon AVR-xx13, but I wish to ensure I am not disappointed.

I am very pleased with the sound processing that the Lexicon has delivered for the last 10 years, and would be happy with something that matches it's performance.

Can anybody tell me what the lowest Denon Model I could shoot for, and convince me of what higher models I should consider?

The only two things that really care about is smooth switching for my three HDMI inputs and good quality 7.1 sound processing...

btw... if there's a model with a better DVD scaler than a PS3, I would certainly consider that a bonus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

No offense, but the Lexicon was a $5,000+ processor. How many people do you think are going to be cross-shopping this older high-level unit with modest consumer-level gear like the current xx13 Denons? Do you think anyone is going to be able to offer an informed comparison between these totally mismatched options?

Here's what you need to know: ALL of the current Denon models with MultEQ XT will sound the same. So go to the first two posts in this thread, compare the features, and buy the minimum model that meets your needs for features and connectivity.

Since you mention 7.1, that means you are looking at the "CI" models (2113, 2313, 3313) which all use the same video processing solution. Chances are these newer, 4k-scaling chips are slightly better than the PS3 for DVD scaling, but whether or not you notice the difference depends on your eyes, the size of your display, etc.

I owned a Lexicon DC-1 for about 10 years, due to financial reasons I had to sell the DC-1. I went through a slew of mid-level receivers since and was never really happy with the sound until I got my current 2113ci. My memory of the DC-1 is a bit dusty, but I would say that the 2113ci beats the sound quality in every aspect. This may have more to do with the discrete audio formats than the actual sound quality of the components but I'm a happy camper. biggrin.gif

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post #5336 of 10739 Old 02-07-2013, 07:48 AM
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Anybody with thoughts on my post yesterday? Connecting Macbook Air to the Denon via HDMI. No problems with the older Onkyo its replacing. Tried all sorts of setting tweaks and multiple inputs. The laptop doesnt see the receiver and vice versa. Grrr.
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post #5337 of 10739 Old 02-07-2013, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airjdogg56 View Post

Anybody with thoughts on my post yesterday? Connecting Macbook Air to the Denon via HDMI. No problems with the older Onkyo its replacing. Tried all sorts of setting tweaks and multiple inputs. The laptop doesnt see the receiver and vice versa. Grrr.

I have had the same problem with my 1912. I have no solution to offer you for direct HDMI connection. I don't know why it happens...

However, prior to owning a Retina MBP with HDMI, I merely had a MB Air with a thunderbolt/mini display port. So I bought a Mini DisplayPort to HDMI Female Adapter Cable from Amazon (IIRC mine was about $3) similar to this one:

http://www.amazon.com/DisplayPort-Female-Adapter-Macbook-Pro/dp/B002HU629E/ref=pd_bxgy_e_text_y

This one is $7. Apple sells one for a bit more (maybe $30). All I can tell you is that both of my laptops connect correctly without a problem through my 1912 when I use this adaptor, and I get sketchy performance when I simply plug the HDMI directly into my Retina MBP. And I don't know why... Hope that helps.
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post #5338 of 10739 Old 02-07-2013, 08:25 AM
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So I have my PS3 connected to my AVR-1713. When I try to watch a 3D blu-ray, it says this device does not support 3D, but it works fine when connecting PS3 directly to the tv. Any ideas? Thanks.
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post #5339 of 10739 Old 02-07-2013, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by cmacdo05 View Post

So I have my PS3 connected to my AVR-1713. When I try to watch a 3D blu-ray, it says this device does not support 3D, but it works fine when connecting PS3 directly to the tv. Any ideas? Thanks.

I don't know. I can tell you that my 1613 works fine in 3D with my PS3. I haven't tried to watch a 3D movie yet. But 3D gaming works great for me.
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post #5340 of 10739 Old 02-07-2013, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by cmacdo05 View Post

So I have my PS3 connected to my AVR-1713. When I try to watch a 3D blu-ray, it says this device does not support 3D, but it works fine when connecting PS3 directly to the tv. Any ideas? Thanks.

Try a different HDMI port on the 1713.

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