The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 205 - AVS Forum
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post #6121 of 10887 Old 03-08-2013, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raymate View Post

Sure this may have been said before but I cant seem to find it relating to the 2113, what chip sets does Denon use in the 2113 for audio and video?

Anchor Bay, Silicon, Burr Brown, Cirrus etc?

I could take the top of my AVR but it's all wired in and set up, thanks

All I know is that Denon 2113 uses an analog device/chip/method to upscale picture to 1080p. As about the audio chips, I have no idea.

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post #6122 of 10887 Old 03-08-2013, 07:42 AM
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alexandru27,

In general, biamping with modern solid state equipment does nothing useful. It used to make sense decades ago when tube amps with limited bandwidth and power were all that were available. Modern amps don't have those limitations. Today, biamping only makes sense if you use "active biamping" with external digital crossovers optimized for your speakers.

It doesn't hurt, though. It just adds complexity and expense.

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post #6123 of 10887 Old 03-08-2013, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Yup. No reason it wouldn't be. smile.gif

Thanks for the reply.

The PS3 with the latest update should pass the 3D movie to any 3D receiver correct????

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post #6124 of 10887 Old 03-08-2013, 08:39 AM
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^^^^

Correct.

AVR: DENON 2113ci
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post #6125 of 10887 Old 03-08-2013, 09:59 AM
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Any one else having a problem with the firmware update connection failing? What's the remedy for this besides waiting and seeing if it works later?

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post #6126 of 10887 Old 03-08-2013, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexandru27 View Post

I keep reading though that bi-amping brings very slightly noticeable (if any) improvement on SQ - someone here told me that too.
Then why would they bother to implement this capability on some receivers, if this doesnt really work on sound quality (note that I dont need/hope to get a simply louder sound by biamping)?

The honest reason is purely marketing. Back when 7ch receivers started becoming standard, the vast majority of people were only running 5.1 setups (probably still the case). So people were buying receivers with 7 amps built in, but only had 5 speakers... and if you read old discussion forums from 8-10 years ago you see lots of people wondering if they can use those "wasted" amps to help their system.

So, essentially, it's based on the (unfounded) psychology of feeling like you are "wasting" some of the stuff you paid for with your 7 channel receiver. Around 2005 or so, it started becoming more standard for 7ch receivers to allow the extra two (surround back) amps to be reassigned to bi-amp the front speakers.

The important thing to understand is that the major limiting factor in receivers is the shared power supply, not the amps itself. Hooking up the extra two amps doesn't really add much available power, because all 7 amps are drawing from the same power supply. You MIGHT get a tiny bit of additional headroom, but that is likely to add up to 1-2dB of additional headroom at the most. A lot of people don't understand that power demands are logarithmic, i.e., raising the volume 10dB requires TEN TIMES the power. So even if you doubled the power, you'd only get around 3dB of extra headroom... and that's at the MAX limits. At normal volumes (where you aren't close to maxing out the amps) it's meaningless.

With receiver bi-amping, you won't come close to doubling the power, because of not only the shared power supply issue but also because the tweeter requires much less power than the woofers. So again, at best you are gaining a tiny little bit of headroom. So, as Selden said, it won't HURT, but it's unlikely to help, and you end up running more wires. Probably better to use those extra two amps for Zone 2 or front heights or something useful.

Quote:
Also: is this biamping feature available only if I choose to connect only the 2 front speakers (for 2 channels/stereo sources), or is it available also in 5.0/5.1 channel listening?

It doesn't matter how many channels you are listening to, it just uses 4 of the receiver's amps to power the two front speakers. Doesn't change anything else.

Quote:
But what if I will listen in surround sound (DTS, Dolby etc.) with biamping and all speakers connected - will the fronts sound obviously louder than the other speakers? Will this affect the result obtained by Audyssey in calibrating speakers?

No, they won't sound louder -- that's the point of calibrating. It equalizes the volume of all the speakers. Adding extra power increases the HEADROOM available, it doesn't make the speakers louder at a given volume. Regardless of how much power you have you want the speakers to be calibrated to each other.

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post #6127 of 10887 Old 03-08-2013, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Semp1 View Post

Any one else having a problem with the firmware update connection failing? What's the remedy for this besides waiting and seeing if it works later?

I have the 1913 and received a prompt onscreen that an update was available. First attempt failed (I believe it was at the point where it said 'authenticating'. It was late, so I waited until the next day. I tried again and it processed successfully. It took about 35 minutes to complete.

The last few months I've been having an issue with my picture. Our Shaw Direct box has an HDMI in to the Denon, and from the Denon to my Samsung TV. The sound through the home theatre is fine, but the picture on the TV drops (as it loses the signal) and comes back every once in a while. Sometimes its good for a few hours, then it will do it 4 or 5 times in a row. Worst case, it starts flashing between a fuzzy screen and the black screen, and I have to turn all components off and back on again.
I was hoping this FW update would fix it, but will have to wait and see.

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post #6128 of 10887 Old 03-08-2013, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by dq72 View Post

I have the 1913 and received a prompt onscreen that an update was available. First attempt failed (I believe it was at the point where it said 'authenticating'. It was late, so I waited until the next day. I tried again and it processed successfully. It took about 35 minutes to complete.

The last few months I've been having an issue with my picture. Our Shaw Direct box has an HDMI in to the Denon, and from the Denon to my Samsung TV. The sound through the home theatre is fine, but the picture on the TV drops (as it loses the signal) and comes back every once in a while. Sometimes its good for a few hours, then it will do it 4 or 5 times in a row. Worst case, it starts flashing between a fuzzy screen and the black screen, and I have to turn all components off and back on again.
I was hoping this FW update would fix it, but will have to wait and see.
Wow never had that issue. Maybe it's a handshake related issue with the Samsung.

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post #6129 of 10887 Old 03-08-2013, 10:22 AM
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No, it's a handshake issue with the cable box. The common solution is to run HDMI from the cable box straight to the TV and optical audio to the AVR.

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post #6130 of 10887 Old 03-08-2013, 11:31 AM
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@ Selden Ball & batpig: I see, so more bad news. Looks like I'll have to settle for the less-than-perfect (joking, nothing's perfect) sound brought by monitor audio 5.0 and Denon 2113 pairing...

All I'm left with is the hope that adding a sub, apart from adding deepness on low frequencies, will somewhat improve the high/middle range too. But I've already got some opinions stating that the latter situation will not arise.

Such is life...apparently I've spent a lot of money (almost 5 times more than on my previous system, a petty Pioneer DCS-585, 5.1 home cinema) hoping for some big improvement in sound (apart from getting access to a wider range of audio formats - which did occur), only to be faced with a...less than optimal sound quality, which, from the point of view of transparency, detail, accuracy, it really seems to me as worse than the one given by the system it replaced.

As for the firmware update prompting, I've got it too since yesterday, but didnt bother with it as yet - just postponed it.

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post #6131 of 10887 Old 03-08-2013, 11:58 AM
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^^^^

The addition of a subwoofer will dramatically change the sound of your entire system. biggrin.gif By taking the low frequency load away from your mains, they will be able to play with more clarity - proven fact.

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post #6132 of 10887 Old 03-08-2013, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

^^^^

The addition of a subwoofer will dramatically change the sound of your entire system. biggrin.gif By taking the low frequency load away from your mains, they will be able to play with more clarity - proven fact.

Yepp. I have my towers and center crossed at 80hz and a 15" Hsu sub. Id not have it any other way.

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post #6133 of 10887 Old 03-08-2013, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jaguarphd View Post

I have an AVR-1613 that I use mostly for airplay. Lately I've been using it a lot for streaming multiple, and have my desktop speakers playing simultaneously with a Pioneer A1 unit in the kitchen and the AVR playing in the living room. After the update two days ago, there's now a good half second delay on the AVR compared to both the desktop and the kitchen speakers. Multiple processor resets and network resets, no change. Reset every device and router, no luck. Seems like the firmware update made it buffer less? I hope they fix this SOON because it's the main use of the AVR for me, and now a large area of my apartment is without sound.

I am experiencing the same issue with my AVR-1713 after the firmware upgrade this week and spoke twice today with Denon customer support. Unfortunately, they weren't much help. The second person I spoke with basically told me the firmware upgrade made my 1713 audio processing better and I just had to update all my other equipment?!? Needless to say, this was less than helpful.

Here's what I've found.:
1. I can use PURE surround mode and get flat-sounding audio that's at least in sync (no delay between Denon and other amps).
2. I can use Manual EQ and get decent audio that's slightly delayed (Denon is very slightly behind).
3. I can use Audyssey and get good audio that's very much delayed (Denon is noticeably behind).

This holds true whether I use AirPlay streaming, a single analog input split to an auxillary amp plus the Denon Cable/Satellite input, or even run the source into the Denon first and then out via Zone 2 to the auxillary amp. In every case, unless I use PURE, the audio in the Denon main zone is delayed when compared to the auxiliary amp.

I have been using this exact same set up daily in my home since September with no delay issues. It started happening immediately after I applied the firmware update this week and I did not change anything else.

I will try writing Denon support to see if I get any further.

Brad
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post #6134 of 10887 Old 03-08-2013, 04:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raymate View Post

Sure this may have been said before but I cant seem to find it relating to the 2113, what chip sets does Denon use in the 2113 for audio and video?

Anchor Bay, Silicon, Burr Brown, Cirrus etc?

I could take the top of my AVR but it's all wired in and set up, thanks

The video and DSP chips are from Analog Devices, Inc. while the ADC and DAC chips are from Asahi Kasei Microsystems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by raymate View Post

OK so would I need to playback in Direct or Pure Direct mode to get a 24/192 stereo file to play? I'm using ALAC 24 bit fils on my Mac of various rate from 44-192

Use whichever mode you prefer, simply note that Audyssey will not be enabled.

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post #6135 of 10887 Old 03-08-2013, 05:28 PM
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Hi all, have had problems with my ONKYO 515 so requested a replacement and currently working with the replacement from Amazon also have the BenQ W1070 front projector and a PS3 as the player, well after a semi long conversation with Onkyo support we concluded that of course we have no handshake between the Onkyo nor the BenQ, so in the meantime have to find out before my return policy expires from Amazon and have to find out which one is at fault.

My question is this who has the BenQ on this thread besides me and if they have a handshake problem? with the Denon???? Or what 3D PJ do you have????


Thanks

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post #6136 of 10887 Old 03-08-2013, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The video and DSP chips are from Analog Devices, Inc. while the ADC and DAC chips are from Asahi Kasei Microsystems.
Use whichever mode you prefer, simply note that Audyssey will not be enabled.

Great thank you.

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post #6137 of 10887 Old 03-08-2013, 07:27 PM
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Bit off topic but I'm having a slight issue with my new 2113, now I assume it's just static attraction but my front display get very dusty within a few hours if it's switch on or not. I don't seem to have dust clinging to other electronics in the same area.

Any ideas how to reduce this.


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post #6138 of 10887 Old 03-08-2013, 08:07 PM
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Am I correct in thinking that I can't use any of the xx13s together with an external amp?
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post #6139 of 10887 Old 03-08-2013, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by raymate View Post

Bit off topic but I'm having a slight issue with my new 2113, now I assume it's just static attraction but my front display get very dusty within a few hours if it's switch on or not. I don't seem to have dust clinging to other electronics in the same area.

Any ideas how to reduce this.


Something doesn't look right there. I've had mine for over 2 months and haven't dusted the face once as it almost seems to repel it. It almost looks like there is some kind of residue on there.

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post #6140 of 10887 Old 03-08-2013, 10:52 PM
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is there a thin film of shipping plastic on the front?

just 1 more pair of KLIPSCH Classic speakers...
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post #6141 of 10887 Old 03-09-2013, 03:49 AM
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Originally Posted by ProfD View Post

Am I correct in thinking that I can't use any of the xx13s together with an external amp?

Nope. The 3313CI has a full set (7.2) of main zone pre-outs and the 1713 and all "CI" models have Zone 2 pre-outs. Note also that all Marantz models support at a minimum FL/FR pre-outs.

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post #6142 of 10887 Old 03-09-2013, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Nope. The 3313CI has a full set (7.2) of main zone pre-outs and the 1713 and all "CI" models have Zone 2 pre-outs. Note also that all Marantz models support at a minimum FL/FR pre-outs.

Thanks. Now I regret buying the 1613 in December. I want to buy some B&W 683s, but I am afraid they might need a extra power. I thought I was saving money with the 1613 at $329 but now it is costing me more if I end up upgrading...
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post #6143 of 10887 Old 03-09-2013, 06:16 AM
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Most low end models do not feature main zone pre-outs; however, unless you have an especially large room or prefer listening at "raise the roof" volume levels, the 1613 should still provide plenty of power to the moderately efficient 90db, 8-ohm 683's.

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post #6144 of 10887 Old 03-09-2013, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Most low end models do not feature main zone pre-outs; however, unless you have an especially large room or prefer listening at "raise the roof" volume levels, the 1613 should still provide plenty of power to the moderately efficient 90db, 8-ohm 683's.

Thanks again, jdsmoothie. Maybe I will try to keep the 1613 with the 683s. The Salesman at BB was trying to tell me that I needed to spend as much on my receiver as I do on the speakers. But he was also selling $400 HDMI cables so...
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post #6145 of 10887 Old 03-09-2013, 06:25 AM
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Right ... likely also works off commission too boot! wink.gif

The rule of thumb is that you want to spend roughly 2-3x on your 5.1 setup as you do on the receiver as that is where the sound is heard, not from the AVR. And the $5 HDMI cables from forum sponsor Monoprice are just as good and you save $395! smile.gif

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post #6146 of 10887 Old 03-09-2013, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raymate View Post

Bit off topic but I'm having a slight issue with my new 2113, now I assume it's just static attraction but my front display get very dusty within a few hours if it's switch on or not. I don't seem to have dust clinging to other electronics in the same area.

Any ideas how to reduce this.


If it is some kind of static, for whatever reason, you may want to try those anti-static spray, either applying directly, or to a piece of cloth first, then wipe off the display?

Just a thought smile.gif!
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post #6147 of 10887 Old 03-09-2013, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by raymate View Post

OK so would I need to playback in Direct or Pure Direct mode to get a 24/192 stereo file to play? I'm using ALAC 24 bit fils on my Mac of various rate from 44-192

You might be interested in learning more about the actual quality of the 24/192kHz file ...

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

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post #6148 of 10887 Old 03-09-2013, 08:24 AM
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is there a thin film of shipping plastic on the front?

No I just checked again, it's strange, its also very fine dust thats collecting.

AVC-A1SE with mission speakers and REL sub
AVR-2113CI with Polk TL350s and Polk sub
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post #6149 of 10887 Old 03-09-2013, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

You might be interested in learning more about the actual quality of the 24/192kHz file ...

http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html

Yes thank you, thats interesting stuff.

AVC-A1SE with mission speakers and REL sub
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post #6150 of 10887 Old 03-09-2013, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by dta721 View Post

If it is some kind of static, for whatever reason, you may want to try those anti-static spray, either applying directly, or to a piece of cloth first, then wipe off the display?

Just a thought smile.gif!

Until I get something I have just tried a damp cloth to see what that does.

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