The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 25 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #721 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 12:05 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
ccotenj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: the toxic waste dumps of new jersey
Posts: 21,915
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

ccotenj wrote: "those are not to be confused with "sound quality" reviews, which are entirely subjective, based on uncontrolled "testing" (and that's being generous) and generally not worth the paper they are printed on..."

These days, regarding comments on sound quality, it seems I can't find anybody willing to commit to digital ink or paper. I guess I should see that as a good thing; less bias in the buying decision.

yup, you got it...

buy features and "reliability"... to a lesser extent, buy what looks good... also ensure your speakers will be able to be driven (generally a non-issue for the great majority, regardless of acd tests)...

dacs, amps, etc. have essentially been "figured out" for a very long time... "improvements" only make the inaudible even more inaudible... wink.gif

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

ccotenj is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #722 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 23,881
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 211 Post(s)
Liked: 968
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

These days, regarding comments on sound quality, it seems I can't find anybody willing to commit to digital ink or paper. I guess I should see that as a good thing; less bias in the buying decision.

are you talking about user reviews or "pro" reviews? Because there are plenty of both which discuss sound quality, I don't really agree with your premise here. On the pro side, for example, go to Home Theater Mag's receiver reviews and they will happily wax poetic about sound quality with all sorts of AVR's: http://www.hometheater.com/category/av-receiver-reviews

on the user side, there are just hundreds (if not thousands) of positive comment about the sound quality of Audyssey equipped Denon receivers of recent vintage. Here's one from just an hour ago about someone switching from Pio VSX-53 to a Denon 3312ci: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1334369/the-official-denon-avr-xx12-model-owners-thread/14190#post_22184771

Quote:
I ran the Audyssey with 3 points because I'm impatient and it was extremely easy and the speaker settings were all perfect when I looked them over after. I got right to playing some FLAC music. My favourite test track is "Can't Sleep" by Above and Beyond (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4HPSZuS2HQ). The female vocals were crystal clear and it had no problems driving my Energy RC70 towers at higher volumes, no doubt the extra 25wpc was warranted for these towers. then i watched some scenes from the dark knight, lord of the rings return of the king, apocalypse now and gladiator...the pioneer went back the next morning and now i'm the proud owner of a Denon 3312CI.

Now I know why there are so many Denon fanboys out there!


also, speaking of HT Mag, if you want more evidence of the similarity of Denon and Marantz's current offerings check out the bench tests of two recently tested models, Denon 3312 vs. Marantz 6006:

Denon 3312 (msrp $1200, spec'd at 125 w/ch): http://www.hometheater.com/content/denon-avr-3312ci-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures
Marantz 6006 (msrp $1200, spec'd at 110 w/ch): http://www.hometheater.com/content/marantz-sr6006-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

notice the virtually identical numbers, the Denon tests out at an extra 5-10w/ch depending on the specific test, but the distortion graph of the amp is essentially the same, as are the numbers for THD+N, crosstalk, S/N ratio, etc. Even the video bench tests are the same.

also on page 1 of each review compare the back panel photos and notice nearly everything (down to the RS-232 port) is in the exact same position on the back panel for each model.

HT Mag even noted this in the Marantz review:
Quote:
Originally Posted by HT MAG 
In most respects, the Marantz SR6006 appears to be a near-clone of the Denon AVR-3312CI we reviewed last month—not surprising because the two brands are owned by the same parent company (D&M Holdings) and sell for comparable prices. The Marantz therefore turned in results identical to the Denon on our video bench tests

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #723 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 12:26 PM
Advanced Member
 
Redbeemer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Is there anything that can be added regarding sound quality? I'm moving my thinking towards the Marantz unit and doing so for no other reason then it's a Marantz as nobody is talking up the sound quality of their Denon units by comparison. I don't wish to shortchange the listening investment.
In the end, my concern is about overall sound quality. Does anybody have anything to post regarding the sound quality of their Denon xx13 or the Marantz SRx007 HT receiver?
Please, I'm pathetic and in need of input. smile.gif
Somebody help me. smile.gif
I can't comment on the sound quality of the Marantz unit or even the specific sound quality of the Denon unit you are asking about; however, in general the Denon AVR's are regarded as having very good sound quality as compared to other AVR's, but your ears are different than anyone else's, so you really need to hear both units, ideally side-by-side, but at least individually at a dealer or friend who has one or another to see what YOU think about the sound quality. I own two higher end Denon's and think their amps sound very good, although over time I have replaced the AVR amps with multiple power amps which has resulted in an improvement in SQ to my ears, but at a cost of many tiimes that of the AVR's.
Good luck!
Redbeemer is offline  
post #724 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 12:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
patnshan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: close to Milwaukee, WI but far enough from the hood!
Posts: 1,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

The receiver is AirPlay enabled so ANY app that has AirPlay support (including Spotify, Pandora, etc) will "work" with the receiver. You just need to have some iDevice to stream it (and of course the app that supports it).

Nice! I see me sitting with my iPad on the patio running Pandora through the receiver controlling it where I sit. For me, that appears to be a better option than running it via the receiver with the iOS denon app. Right? The only issue I see would be loss of sound quality. Is that an issue?

Pat
patnshan is offline  
post #725 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 01:00 PM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
batpig wrote: "I don't really agree with your premise here."

I can only share personal experience and so far, even when going to HomeTheater.com, I found little to nothing that would qualify as a cogent discussion on sound quality. FWIW, I was just at HomeTheater a few minutes ago, before reading your thoughtful and lengthy post and other than bench tests on last years Denon xx12 or Marantz xxx6, found neither the Denon xx13, the Marantz 5007 nor discussion regarding what I'm use to regarding sound quality reviews from the past.

Yes, I did look at the bench test results (simplifying here), as all the tests showed was, one could beat on the amplifier at 4 or 8ohms and still get a clean signal of either 0.1 or 1.0% THD, depending on how hard the Amp was being driven. Nothing regarding actual sound quality. I did find an article from the past that discussed introduced distortion lending one to believe the engineers were trying to create a tube like sound while using solid state.

I'm sure it would help if I saw things through more experience eyes but I can only relate, based on what I've seen over that last week or so.
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #726 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 01:08 PM
Member
 
JakeRobb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Okemos, MI
Posts: 97
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

This is a good thing as a it looks like the price of a decent set of speakers has gone, quite literally, through the roof. biggrin.gif

Well, sure, if you're looking for a set of Wilson Alexandria 2's... LOL.

But for more reasonable people, Ascend Accoustics appears to offer several different great speakers at excellent prices. (Note: I haven't heard these speakers, nor bought them myself, but the reviews are excellent. I'll be buying a set for myself within the next year for sure, hopefully before the end of 2012.) I assume that there are other brands of affordable-yet-high-quality speakers too. smile.gif

JakeRobb is offline  
post #727 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 01:10 PM
585-645-1006
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 43,160
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 403 Post(s)
Liked: 1342
Quote:
Originally Posted by patnshan View Post

Nice! I see me sitting with my iPad on the patio running Pandora through the receiver controlling it where I sit. For me, that appears to be a better option than running it via the receiver with the iOS denon app. Right? The only issue I see would be loss of sound quality. Is that an issue?
Pat

The best you'll get from on board Pandora is 128kbps, while using the iPad to stream Pandora you'll get 192kbps.

---------------------------------
"JD" – jd@avscience.com ; shop.avscience.com ; 585-645-1006, AVScience - AVSForum sponsor for 15 years  
Mon - Fri: 8am – 8pm EST (Sat/Sun too, will return call if I don't pick up)
Call for pricing on Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Klipsch, Def Tech, Oppo, Parasound 
** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 4-5 times. 
jdsmoothie is offline  
post #728 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 01:12 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
ccotenj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: the toxic waste dumps of new jersey
Posts: 21,915
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeRobb View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

This is a good thing as a it looks like the price of a decent set of speakers has gone, quite literally, through the roof. biggrin.gif

Well, sure, if you're looking for a set of Wilson Alexandria 2's... LOL.

But for more reasonable people, Ascend Accoustics appears to offer several different great speakers at excellent prices. (Note: I haven't heard these speakers, nor bought them myself, but the reviews are excellent. I'll be buying a set for myself within the next year for sure, hopefully before the end of 2012.) I assume that there are other brands of affordable-yet-high-quality speakers too. smile.gif

^^^ this....

today, there are MANY more choices, at much better pricing, than there was even 10 years ago... the internet direct business model has been a boon for speaker buyers...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

ccotenj is offline  
post #729 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 01:20 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
ccotenj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: the toxic waste dumps of new jersey
Posts: 21,915
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

batpig wrote: "I don't really agree with your premise here."

I can only share personal experience and so far, even when going to HomeTheater.com, I found little to nothing that would qualify as a cogent discussion on sound quality. FWIW, I was just at HomeTheater a few minutes ago, before reading your thoughtful and lengthy post and other than bench tests on last years Denon xx12 or Marantz xxx6, found neither the Denon xx13, the Marantz 5007 nor discussion regarding what I'm use to regarding sound quality reviews from the past.

Yes, I did look at the bench test results (simplifying here), as all the tests showed was, one could beat on the amplifier at 4 or 8ohms and still get a clean signal of either 0.1 or 1.0% THD, depending on how hard the Amp was being driven. Nothing regarding actual sound quality. I did find an article from the past that discussed introduced distortion lending one to believe the engineers were trying to create a tube like sound while using solid state.

I'm sure it would help if I saw things through more experience eyes but I can only relate, based on what I've seen over that last week or so.

ah, you are looking for flowery prose...

here's the thing... a modern ss amplifier should do nothing but amplify what it gets... and that is what virtually all of them do...

google "richard clark challenge"... note that no one has collected yet...

"sound quality" is determined by 4 things...

- the speakers
- the room
- the dsp that corrects for the room
- the quality of the source material (how well was it recorded/mixed/mastered)

sighted observations of "amplifier sound quality" are, ummm, of little use... if anything, they lead people down the garden path...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

ccotenj is offline  
post #730 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 01:35 PM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
JakeRobb wrote: "I assume that there are other brands of affordable-yet-high-quality speakers too. smile.gif"

After purchasing the LED flatscreen and the receiver, I'll be using the old Klipsch speakers from the past which would qualify as antiques. Mains are Epic Series, CF-3'shttp://www.klipsch.com/cf-3. The center is a KSP-S6, the surrounds are a pair of KV-4's all complimented with a pair of Series II, SW12 subs.
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #731 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 01:52 PM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
ccotenj wrote: "ah, you are looking for flowery prose..."

Well, I was hoping for more mature than prose.

"here's the thing... a modern ss amplifier should do nothing but amplify what it gets... and that is what virtually all of them do..."

"google "richard clark challenge"... note that no one has collected yet..."

I'm not looking for a "golden ear" conversation with Richard Clark. smile.gif My question goes no further than sound quality differences between the Marantz SR5007 and the Denon AVR 1713. And if there are no differences, then there are no differences as so far, spec wise, all I've found, wattage aside, the Marantz has a 2db lower noise floor; 100db vs 98db.

"sound quality" is determined by 4 things..."

The speakers, old, poorly matched Klipsch speakers that cost a bundle in their day, pre-1994.

The room, a highly reflective, 12' cathedral ceiling.

The DSP to correct for the room and speakers is expected to be the Audyssey MultEQ XT.

The recorded material quality will be what ever the cable provider sends down the line.
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #732 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 02:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Selden Ball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: upstate NY
Posts: 6,459
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 54 Post(s)
Liked: 327
Quote:
The speakers, old, poorly matched Klipsch speakers that cost a bundle in their day, pre-1994.
Audyssey should help make them sound more nearly alike, although it's not perfect.
Quote:
The room, a highly reflective, 12' cathedral ceiling.
Hopefully you've installed thick, soft rugs, overstuffed furniture and heavy drapes to help reduce the reflections.
Quote:
The DSP to correct for the room and speakers is expected to be the Audyssey MultEQ XT.
Many people prefer XT 32 if you can afford it.
Quote:
The recorded material quality will be what ever the cable provider sends down the line.
In that case, forget it wink.gif Consider investing in some shiny discs if you haven't already. Sadly, many cable channels highly compress both the video and the audio that they provide.

Selden
Selden Ball is online now  
post #733 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 02:29 PM
Member
 
jsprague's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 80
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

The receiver is AirPlay enabled so ANY app that has AirPlay support (including Spotify, Pandora, etc) will "work" with the receiver. You just need to have some iDevice to stream it (and of course the app that supports it).

ok, Stupid question but airplay only works with Apple devices right?

What options do I have with Android?

I'd like to stream and control music through the receiver with an android phone (galaxy s3) using Pandora and Spotify with the best audio possible.

Thanks
jsprague is offline  
post #734 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 02:34 PM
585-645-1006
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 43,160
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 403 Post(s)
Liked: 1342
There are 3rd party apps that can be used to stream non-iOS audio from a non-ioS device over Airplay (eg. AirFoil).

---------------------------------
"JD" – jd@avscience.com ; shop.avscience.com ; 585-645-1006, AVScience - AVSForum sponsor for 15 years  
Mon - Fri: 8am – 8pm EST (Sat/Sun too, will return call if I don't pick up)
Call for pricing on Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Klipsch, Def Tech, Oppo, Parasound 
** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 4-5 times. 
jdsmoothie is offline  
post #735 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 02:42 PM
Advanced Member
 
Semp1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 743
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked: 19
What's up with Audyssey on the new Denon's. I bought an AVR1913 for the bedroom and it seems like Audyssey for it is very tempermental. First it'll say the phase is off (switch + and -, but there is no reason to switch them, I set them up properly) in the left front, then the left front, and center. Then the left, right front, and center, then it'll finally work. I also notice when I keep the bedroom door open it has an easier time working. What's up with that. Very annoying. Should be simple. I actually have to physically hold it to make sure it works properly too. Never experienced this with my other Receivers that have Audyssey. It's usually a very simple set up. I remember reading others with this problem. Can some one shed some light please.

65VT60+55GT50+Onkyo TX-NR727+Denon AVR-1913+OPPO bdp-103+OPPO bdp-83=Heaven
Semp1 is offline  
post #736 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 02:45 PM
585-645-1006
 
jdsmoothie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 43,160
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 403 Post(s)
Liked: 1342
As noted in the Owner's manual, a "Phase Error" can simply be SKIPped if the speaker is confirmed wired correctly. However, in no instance would holding the mic produce beneficial results, rather you should either use a camera tripod or boom mic stand.

---------------------------------
"JD" – jd@avscience.com ; shop.avscience.com ; 585-645-1006, AVScience - AVSForum sponsor for 15 years  
Mon - Fri: 8am – 8pm EST (Sat/Sun too, will return call if I don't pick up)
Call for pricing on Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Onkyo, Klipsch, Def Tech, Oppo, Parasound 
** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 4-5 times. 
jdsmoothie is offline  
post #737 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 02:46 PM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
Selden, thanks for the input. The room is an acoustic nightmare. Hardwood floors with a few area rugs, quite literally, nothing on the walls, place pieces of cloth/leather chairs and love seat, wood and glass furniture, plantation shutters and a fan overhead. eek.gif

Thanks for the thought regarding upgrading to the Audyssey XT 32 vs Audyssey XT sound processor.

"Consider investing in some shiny discs if you haven't already."

We have a Samsung, BD-C7900 Blue-ray player but we fell out of love with trying to acquire content.

It just doesn't seem to get easier. smile.gif
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #738 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 02:59 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
ccotenj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: the toxic waste dumps of new jersey
Posts: 21,915
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

ccotenj wrote: "ah, you are looking for flowery prose..."

Well, I was hoping for mature than prose.

"here's the thing... a modern ss amplifier should do nothing but amplify what it gets... and that is what virtually all of them do..."

"google "richard clark challenge"... note that no one has collected yet..."

I'm not looking for a "golden ear" conversation with Richard Clark. smile.gif My question goes no further than sound quality differences between the Marantz SR5007 and the Denon AVR 1713. And if there are no differences, then there are no differences as so far, spec wise, all I've found, wattage aside, the Marantz has a 2db lower noise floor; 100db vs 98db.

"sound quality" is determined by 4 things..."

The speakers, old, poorly matched Klipsch speakers that cost a bundle in their day, pre-1994.

The room, a highly reflective, 12' cathedral ceiling.

The DSP to correct for the room and speakers is expected to be the Audyssey MultEQ XT.

The recorded material quality will be what ever the cable provider sends down the line.

well, to be blunt, you've got 3 real issues...

worrying about "sound quality" from the avr isn't one of them...

even after you solve those 3 issues (if you do), "sound quality" from the avr still isn't an issue...

not sure what you are really looking for...

if i was you (and i'm not), i would spend a bit of time reading this forum and learning "how to get good sound".... i'll give you a good starting point... it's not by worrying about "sound quality" of the amplifier...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

ccotenj is offline  
post #739 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 03:20 PM
Member
 
BloodyMurray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi, I'm having an issue with horizontal lines across the screen in all HDMI inputs (Xbox 360, PS3, Directv & Mac mini). My setup is Optoma HD33, 35ft Blue Jeans BJC Belden Series-1 Bonded-Pair HDMI Cable, AVR-3313ci receiver. I've had this setup since last Thursday but the issue just started Saturday. I've tested the receiver with a Monoprice 6ft high speed cable and the lines still appear. If I hook up any of the devices directly to the projector it plays just fine, no lines. I called Denon and they gave me the run around about getting a better HDMI cable but my old setup was a Mitsubishi HC3800 and Denon AVR-2809ci and I had no issues with the signal. The other thing is, if I run 3D the lines are gone but once I switch back to 2D the lines slowly start appearing and get worse and worse. Any ideas? Is this a faulty receiver?
BloodyMurray is offline  
post #740 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 03:21 PM
Member
 
brschmid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Anyone having problems with changing sources and getting no sound output? Specifically having issues going from network (Pandora) to either cbl/sat or game, both hooked up via hdmi. We have to turn our 1913 on/off twice to get around again from either other source. No issues going from cbl to game or network

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
brschmid is offline  
post #741 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 03:36 PM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redbeemer View Post

I can't comment on the sound quality of the Marantz unit or even the specific sound quality of the Denon unit you are asking about; however, in general the Denon AVR's are regarded as having very good sound quality as compared to other AVR's, but your ears are different than anyone else's, so you really need to hear both units, ideally side-by-side, but at least individually at a dealer or friend who has one or another to see what YOU think about the sound quality. I own two higher end Denon's and think their amps sound very good, although over time I have replaced the AVR amps with multiple power amps which has resulted in an improvement in SQ to my ears, but at a cost of many tiimes that of the AVR's.
Good luck!

Thanks for that salient thought. Yes, the cost of separates vs an AVR receiver. We're retired so the days of "wine and roses" and free spending ways are limited. We're not destitute but our float has shrunk considerably. We went in full force with the Samsung 60" (UN60ES6100F) purchase and now, have to take into consideration the price of the receiver. If this were the old day, I'd go with a Marantz SR6007 and be done with it but that's the old us. smile.gif

Separates.....Mmmmmmmmmm! smile.gif
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #742 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 03:49 PM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

well, to be blunt, you've got 3 real issues...
worrying about "sound quality" from the avr isn't one of them...
even after you solve those 3 issues (if you do), "sound quality" from the avr still isn't an issue...
not sure what you are really looking for...
if i was you (and i'm not), i would spend a bit of time reading this forum and learning "how to get good sound".... i'll give you a good starting point... it's not by worrying about "sound quality" of the amplifier...

Thank you for your above thoughtful thought. Been there, done that regarding audio nervosa and good sound. My focus, trying to decide between a Denon AVR1713 and the Marantz SR5007. The point, I know about the short coming of the listening venue and I'm simply going have to live with these short comings. In the old days, I would have been all over the room with placements. Today, I'm keeping it simple.

I'm pathetic, I'm desperate. That's why I'm here. Somebody hep me. smile.gif

Should I go with today's Denon AVR 1713, I have owned Denon in the past or should I buy today's Marantz SR 5007, a manufactured product which I have also owned in the past? The Marantz out shown the Denon but I didn't equalize for SPL. This was almost twenty years ago. A lot has technologically happened since then. Today, how do the two units stack-up when compared to each other in a side-by-side comparison?
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #743 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 23,881
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 211 Post(s)
Liked: 968
Quote:
Originally Posted by BloodyMurray View Post

Hi, I'm having an issue with horizontal lines across the screen in all HDMI inputs (Xbox 360, PS3, Directv & Mac mini). My setup is Optoma HD33, 35ft Blue Jeans BJC Belden Series-1 Bonded-Pair HDMI Cable, AVR-3313ci receiver. I've had this setup since last Thursday but the issue just started Saturday. I've tested the receiver with a Monoprice 6ft high speed cable and the lines still appear. If I hook up any of the devices directly to the projector it plays just fine, no lines. I called Denon and they gave me the run around about getting a better HDMI cable but my old setup was a Mitsubishi HC3800 and Denon AVR-2809ci and I had no issues with the signal. The other thing is, if I run 3D the lines are gone but once I switch back to 2D the lines slowly start appearing and get worse and worse. Any ideas? Is this a faulty receiver?

The first culprit would be the HDMI cable but if it still happens with a 6 footer (plus you are getting it on all inputs) that doesn't sound good. I would try a microprocessor reset (remember you can SAVE and then re LOAD your settings via the web interface) and if the problem still appears, I would assume a faulty receiver and seek a return/exchange.

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #744 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 03:53 PM
Advanced Member
 
Redbeemer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 578
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Thanks for that salient thought. Yes, the cost of separates vs an AVR receiver. We're retired so the days of "wine and roses" and free spending ways are limited. We're not destitute but our float has shrunk considerably. We went in full force with the Samsung 60" (UN60ES6100F) purchase and now, have to take into consideration the price of the receiver. If this were the old day, I'd go with a Marantz SR6007 and be done with it but that's the old us. smile.gif
Separates.....Mmmmmmmmmm! smile.gif
I understand as I am contemplating retirement in the near future(or not!) myself. I honestly think that you would be pleased with just about any of the new Marantz or Denon receivers as far as sound quality goes. I would just select one that has the features that you want/need and then set it up properly using the Audyysey software. If you can get some newer speakers they would probably make more of a difference than spending the extra money on a higher end AVR. There are many speakers available today that sound quite good for a relatively modest sum of money. As another member suggested, buy some shiny discs and play them or at least get a quality music service such as MOG($4.99 per month unlimited use) because most of the music from the cable company is highly compressed and sounds pretty bad, especially when you get a better music system(such as the Denon or Marantz). The poster above was correct about the speakers, room, room correction and recording quality as being far more important than which receiver you buy.
Good luck!smile.gif
Redbeemer is offline  
post #745 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Addicted Member
 
batpig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: San Diego
Posts: 23,881
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 211 Post(s)
Liked: 968
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

I'm pathetic, I'm desperate. That's why I'm here. Somebody hep me. smile.gif Should I go with today's Denon, which I have owned or should I buy today's Marantz, which I have owned? How do the two stack up when compared to each other in a side-by-side comparison?

bottom line: there is NO reason to expect any difference in fundamental sound quality between the two. Considering they are both new models I highly doubt anyone has done an A/B comparison between the two models you mention, but there is plenty of user feedback on xx12 and xx06 Marantz's that is directly relevant (no reason to expect that basic SQ has changed between last year's and this year's models).

the only difference is the featureset -- if you require the additional features, or if starting at the Marantz porthole makes you feel more tingly because of the aesthetics, then get the Marantz. The Marantz has a lot more inputs on the back plus pre-outs for adding an external amp, so it is definitely more flexible / expandable. But I wouldn't expect a lick of difference in SQ, as both are D&M products built off the same components and both use MultEQ XT for calibration.

The Marantz 5007 is kind of in between the 2113ci and 2313ci in the Denon line in terms of featureset, so that's probably a better comparison. But again SQ would be the same.

it sounds to me like you WANT to go with the Marantz, so just do it wink.gif

batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

Become a fan "batpigworld.com" on Facebook!
batpig is offline  
post #746 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 04:02 PM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post


it sounds to me like you WANT to go with the Marantz, so just do it wink.gif

Being conflicted has it's downside. That's why I signed up. hoping someone could give me insight.

I really do appreciate everybody's effort to do just that.

Where the past confliction comes in is, almost twenty years ago when I replaced the Denon unit with the Marantz unit, there was a noticeable difference in the sound stage. No "Golden Ears" here. That was almost twenty years ago, that was then, this is now. I love that wider sound stage. We're retired and yes, money is an object. I'm hoping someone here has some side-by-side experience and can share because despite my online surfing efforts, I cannot find the information I'm looking for.

I'm desperate. Somebody hep me. smile.gif

This is what I've found so far that's in the AVR1713.

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-yRydgXx0vEY/p_033AV1713/Denon-AVR-1713.html#details-tab

24-bit/192-kHz DACs: This receiver is equipped with AKM Semiconductor 24-bit/192-kHz (AK4358VQ) DACs on all channels to decode and playback high-resolution recordings with less jitter and clearer sound.

32-Bit Processing DSP: The Denon AVR1713 is equipped with a HammerHead SHARC 32-bit DSP (ADSP21487) for powerful and highly accurate surround sound reproduction.
ccuzman likes this.
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #747 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 06:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
patnshan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: close to Milwaukee, WI but far enough from the hood!
Posts: 1,026
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I don't claim to have any special knowledge or experience in what constitutes good sound but I do know what I like. I am about to do just what you are contemplating as soon as my speakers get here!

I currently use a Marantz SR-8400 receiver which is it's day was pretty high end. I just purchased a Denon 2113CI to replace it (HDMI inputs, features, upconversion of video, built in airplay, built in pandora, UI over HDMI, etc.). Once connected, I am certainly happy to share my impressions with you if you'd like.

Pat
patnshan is offline  
post #748 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 06:28 PM
Member
 
mchrisbrown's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 102
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by vansos View Post

Well, I've got it working now so that's good. It seems I needed a combination of updating all my HDMI cables (I guess there are different versions of cables?). Even though they worked fine with the old 4306, I bought the newest HDMI cables available even though my TV isn't 3D and doesn't support ARC, etc.. The other part was the HDCP handshake which definitely is part of the problem. Unfortunately, it still seems to be an occaisional issue when I'm using my FIOS cable box. Specifically, I'm able to get it to work, but, at some times, I have to turn everything off and turn it back on one item at a time. My Apple TV, XBox, and Denon DVD are all perfect though and dont' experience the HDCP handshake issues at all. I suspect that if I get an upgraded FIOS box (two years old now), my handshake issues might disappear as well.
In short, my commercial Panny absoultely works with the 3313 now even using the old 1.1 HDMI board that is the only one available (no firmware upgrade).
Thanks for the advice and good luck to you Chris.

Thank you very much for your feedback. I'm very happy to hear that the 3313 will work with our Panny display panels. I need to wait a few months (finances) but looks like I'll be getting a 3313 and finally having an HDMI connection to my TV on my deck (not the Panny) biggrin.gif
mchrisbrown is offline  
post #749 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 07:02 PM
 
BeeMan458's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Magalia, CA
Posts: 8,374
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by patnshan View Post

I just purchased a Denon 2113CI to replace it (HDMI inputs, features, upconversion of video, built in airplay, built in pandora, UI over HDMI, etc.). Once connected, I am certainly happy to share my impressions with you if you'd like.
Pat

Hi Pat.

Thanks for the offer. Absolutely. I'd love to read what your impressions are.

Over at Crutchfield, they have a tremendous write up for both units I'm looking at and the best I've come up with by analyzing what they've posted is, the Marantz SR5007 has a better processing unit.

Here's a link to their Denon 2113Ci information.
BeeMan458 is offline  
post #750 of 10620 Old 07-02-2012, 08:19 PM
Member
 
brschmid's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 100
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by brschmid View Post

Anyone having problems with changing sources and getting no sound output? Specifically having issues going from network (Pandora) to either cbl/sat or game, both hooked up via hdmi. We have to turn our 1913 on/off twice to get around again from either other source. No issues going from cbl to game or network

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2

Tried again with airplay tonight, it will switch to it just fine and play audio, but when changing back to any other source the video will switch but the audio is permanently muted for some reason and the only way to fix it is to turn my receiver on/off until it works.

Is the software the same on the 2113 as my current 1913? I haven't tried a reset yet because i haven't got a chance to backup my settings yet

Sent from my SPH-D710 using Tapatalk 2
brschmid is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Denon Avr 1513 Receiver , Denon Avr 1613 Receiver , Denon Avr 1713 Receiver , Denon Avr 1913 Receiver , Denon Avr 2113ci Receiver , Denon Avr 2313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon
Gear in this thread

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off