The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 10929 Old 07-05-2012, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mdenning View Post

Ive ran setup a few times, and have always been limited to 6 positions on my 3313. I'm wondering if this may be a number of speakers issue? Have you guys been on 5.x or also 7.x?

Are you running the Audyssey from the Setup Assistant or from the Speakers menu? I believe that when I run Audyssey from the setup assistant, I only get 6 mic positions, but when I run it from the Speakers menu, I get 8 mic positions. Someone else please confirm this.
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post #812 of 10929 Old 07-05-2012, 10:01 PM
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AVR-2113 from robert at ABT just sold me this at $XXX delivered. Robert is very direct and almost always provides the best price. Mention AVS--he takes pride in his great reputation here. if you can't figure out the set-up or trouble shooting, Robert knows which techie is good at what and will get you the help you need. ABT does provide the support and service for what ever you buy. They are an authorized dealer. I went to my local former audiophole dealer. They wouldn't set up any test session even though they sell both my speakers and the denon. So they want to sell sealed boxes without real demos at list price. I come from an audiophile backround and have spent big dollars at this place.I would have paid more $$ and sales tax if they still had the same type of staffing and service they had 20 years ago.

If Denon is monitoring this forum--he does things in packages and will basically give away stuff to get you the price you want. Don't want to get my favorite salesman in trouble by posting too much info. No one else came close. july 4 th, 2012 buy dates and was just released. Six months from now there will be more room to move. link from denon,usa/dealers/internet or direct line: 847 544 2787

Happy sounds and visions boys and girls! Sorry that I hijacked this thread a bit. I am just excited as I will have not quite near audiophile level sound ON A DEFINATIVE TECH SBA 4300 sound bar[layout to difficult to run 3 speakers accross the tv wall AND DEF TECH SUPER CUBE WHILE WATCHING A 2 YEAR OLD PANNY 50" PLASMA IN MY BEDROOM. WAS USING A JAMBOX RUNNING 256K RIPS ON AN ANDROID on blue tooth AND THE TV FROM STERO RCS'A TO 3,5 mm into the JAMBOX.
The jambox is a nice piece for what it is and sound better than the tv's speakers. Sold a few shares of apple stock up about 80% and decided my time had come.

I'll be back for help with set-up problems.

Blue tooth connection to 2113 for ease, not sound quality. use 256k rips of cd's and lp's [yes, i still listen to lp's and can hear the difference]

Avr 2113 and bluetooth: does logitech bluetooth adapter work well to take my android in to the 2113 via rca's
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004VM1T5S/ref=ox_sc_act_title_4?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

compared to the Belkin--with it's weight removed[see reviews for solution to limited range of bluetooth]
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0047T79VS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_5?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER
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post #813 of 10929 Old 07-06-2012, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by openchut82 View Post

Are you running the Audyssey from the Setup Assistant or from the Speakers menu? I believe that when I run Audyssey from the setup assistant, I only get 6 mic positions, but when I run it from the Speakers menu, I get 8 mic positions. Someone else please confirm this.

I'll have to check when I get home, but I think I've run it both ways.
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post #814 of 10929 Old 07-06-2012, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Not meaning to overstate the obvious, I think some of the confusion comes in at the HDMI level. HDMI 1.4x has wiring for both ARC and Ethernet. Ethernet come in handy if you don't have a home wireless network hotspot to take advantage of the included internet access feature. One can use this feature to upgrade software.

Thanks to this reply and all the one's above, I appreciate the clarification. It appears I have no real need for this as I had thought. I have high speed cables with no ethernet so I appear to be set. Speakers come today, sub came yesterday, can't wait to get this stuff set up. I am also going to Beta a new version of the DeRemote for iOS which is apparently heads and shoulders better than the Denon app itself. I will try that out and post back as well.

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post #815 of 10929 Old 07-06-2012, 04:19 PM
 
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For all who offered up their help and suggestions, today I pulled the trigger on a Marantz SR5007 from Vann's as opposed to the Denon 1713. Killer price, which included UPS, two day delivery. Vann's has killer phone prices and all the guys I spoke with were great.

As I struggled with the two receiver choices before me, I found that Denon had crippled the DAC in the AVR1713 and, according to Denon, dumb'd the DAC down to 24/96 as opposed to 24/192.

http://usa.denon.com/US/Product/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?PCatId=AVSolutions%28DenonNA%29&CatId=AVReceivers%28DenonNA%29&catalog=DenonNA_US&Pid=AVR1713%28DenonNA%29#

"Under HDCD decoder: "dts 96/24 5.1 for DVD-Video Processing"

I had to go with the pricier than theSR5007, SR2313Cl, to gain full 24/192 DAC capability.

Sharing personal research information, I talked to our cable provider (Comcast) about reported HDMI issues which I read about on AVS forum and was told to use an optical pipe from the DVR to the receiver and let the receiver's Dolby Digital processor unpack the information. Doing so eliminates reported HDMI conflict problems and gives the best audio/video signal, via HDMI cable to the television.

FWIW, overall, for our purpose, the benefit of the SR5007 over the AVR1713 was:

Two sub-woofer outs which is cool because I have a pair of 12" subs. biggrin.gif
24/192 DAC
Detachable cord so I can go to a longer, heavier gauge electric cord. Less power surge resistance and transformer runs cooler, less heat, less distortion.
The Marantz unit has a noise floor of 100dB as opposed to the noise floor of the Denon which was 98dB. Don't know if the 2dB is noticeable.
Reported ease of setup.
Three year warranty vs two year.

The deciding factor literally was the crippled DAC. If this time, I was going go with Denon, I had locked my thinking on the AVR1713. I can't say in truthfulness that all the rest was worth the extra three hundred and fifty dollars but no matter how I tried, I couldn't wrap my think around any of the other two Denon receivers which I looked at; the AVR1913 and the AVR2313Cl so in this battle of the units, Marantz vs Denon, the SR5007 won.

With two day shipping, come next week, Tuesday afternoon, I should be unboxing this badboy. Thanks everybody for the input. Happy, happy, hap-pi. smile.gif
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post #816 of 10929 Old 07-06-2012, 04:46 PM
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I have a Denon AVR-2113ci I just updated the firmware and now everyday The network connection stops working. I can factory reset the receiver and it works great all evening. Then next day the ethernet port is dead. It won't make link on the switch and does not register itself on my network. I can look in the configuration and it says it has the ip it was last assigned on the network. Has anyone else had this issue? I've tried moving ports on the switch and changing patch cables but nothing works, it has to be factory reset to get it going again.
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post #817 of 10929 Old 07-06-2012, 07:10 PM
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Did the firmware update complete successfully? Do you have a wired or wireless connection to the router?

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post #818 of 10929 Old 07-06-2012, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

As I struggled with the two receiver choices before me, I found that Denon had crippled the DAC in the AVR1713 and, according to Denon, dumb'd the DAC down to 24/96 as opposed to 24/192.
http://usa.denon.com/US/Product/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?PCatId=AVSolutions%28DenonNA%29&CatId=AVReceivers%28DenonNA%29&catalog=DenonNA_US&Pid=AVR1713%28DenonNA%29#
"Under HDCD decoder: "dts 96/24 5.1 for DVD-Video Processing"
I had to go with the pricier than theSR5007, SR2313Cl, to gain full 24/192 DAC capability.

Although the 5007 certainly offers more than the 1713, it wouldn't be in the case of the DAC in which they both have the same specs. What you quoted above was a DTS signal input processing from a DVD in which the 5007 has the same spec as noted in the image below.

47

Also note, that with MultEQ XT or lower, Audyssey is disabled when processing a signal over 96khz. And the dual sub preouts on the Denon 23XX and 33XX and Marantz X007 models can be replicated with a $3 RCA "Y" splitter from Radio Shack, rather these models simply use an interal "Y" splitter.

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post #819 of 10929 Old 07-06-2012, 08:54 PM
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1. In regards to the db being 100 on some receivers and 98 on the Denons. Why is that's what's the reason for the 2db difference. I've also noticed this on my 1913 and it's not an issue. I was just curious.

2. Did any one ever notice the edges of the receiver face where it meets the body are a little rough?

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post #820 of 10929 Old 07-06-2012, 10:26 PM - Thread Starter
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What on earth do you mean by "the dB being 100"? What are you talking about? The volume?

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post #821 of 10929 Old 07-06-2012, 10:33 PM
 
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jdsmoothie wrote: "Although the 5007 certainly offers more than the 1713, it wouldn't be in the case of the DAC in which they both have the same specs. What you quoted above was a DTS signal input processing from a DVD in which the 5007 has the same spec as noted in the image below."

I may have a bad understanding of what's what as research showed the two units are using the same DAC but in the case of the Denon AVR1713, according to the way I understand Denon's specs, the engineers crippled the DAC as the DTS sound mode is 24/96 and the analogue to digital conversion rate is 24/96.

http://usa.denon.com/US/Product/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?PCatId=AVSolutions%28DenonNA%29&CatId=AVReceivers%28DenonNA%29&catalog=DenonNA_US&Pid=AVR1713%28DenonNA%29

See component technology heading. No idea if I can hear the difference between 24/96 and 24/192. I have a tendency to slide towards the bigger hammer.

"Also note, that with MultEQ XT or lower, Audyssey is disabled when processing a signal over 96khz."

Oh goodie. I finally get a decent walking cane and the guides make me go uphill. smile.gif I love how everybody cripples the next guy. Since I'm doing the installation, I don't have access to the installer added XT32 version.

"And the dual sub preouts on the Denon 23XX and 33XX and Marantz X007 models can be replicated with a $3 RCA "Y" splitter from Radio Shack,..."

I went high-end, I think my old splitter was twelve dollars and that was in 1994 dollars. tongue.gif

I didn't like the splitter and would much rather have a pair of outs at the receiver then using a splitter. Didn't like how it worked on the back of the first Klipsch sub as I legged onto the second sub. FWIW, it had a real hokey feel to it. Never did feel good about the connection; loose more often then tight because of the stupid, loop second connection. In the end, based on my limited understanding, I picked up a AVR 2313Cl in the form of a Marantz SR5007 for a hundred and fifty bucks cheaper. biggrin.gif

I sure appreciate yours and others efforts at getting me up to speed. You guys have been the best. A lot of online folks loose sight of the fact there's a "REAL," thoughtful, breathing personalities on the other side of their monitor screen who's thoughtfully taking their valuable time to respond to their request for more input. Based on the amount of thoughtful input I received, I wanted to share a comment regarding what unit I chose and what features made me make the decision I did.

Now I get to dig out the speaker wires I have packed away so I can once again have life breathed into the Klipsch, Epic CF-3's to invigorate our movie viewing experience on a 60" flat screen.

Oh hell yes, now that's what I'm talking about. biggrin.gif
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post #822 of 10929 Old 07-06-2012, 11:42 PM
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Yes. When it's set to absolute volume.

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post #823 of 10929 Old 07-07-2012, 03:12 AM
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Denon changed the volume scales from -80.5db to +18db/0-99 on previous year's models to -79.5db to +18db/0-98 on the XX13 models, although no clue why the 1db change was made.

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post #824 of 10929 Old 07-07-2012, 08:14 AM
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I currently have a Pioneer VSX-1120K which has started losing it's settings whenever it goes into standby. I'm considering replacing it with the 3313, but I have a couple questions.

I've been reading how Audyssey XT32 is significantly better than the version that comes on the 3313. I have only ever owned Pioneer receivers, so I have no experience whatsoever with Audyssey. I can afford the rumored 4520, but I would prefer not to wait until Sept+ to replace my dying receiver. My first question is, since I have never had an Audyssey system before, would I be selling myself short not holding out for the model with XT32, or would the 3313 suite my just fine? (I have a 5.1 Klipsch Reference system, soon to upgrade to 7.1).

One of the main features drawing me to the 3313 is the HDMI matrix output. I'm building a home theater in my basement, and the prospect of sending HDMI to multiple rooms sounds very nice. I've read the manual regarding Zone 2/Zone 3 and HDMI, but I still don't have a good grasp on how it works. My last question is do the two Monitor HDMI outputs have to have the same output all the time or are the three HDMI outputs individually selectable (with only two different simultaneous sources)?
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post #825 of 10929 Old 07-07-2012, 08:32 AM
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Regarding the 3312 & 3313 comparison:
Quote:
Both have 11 speaker posts but only 7.2 ch pre-amp outputs (i.e. can connect + EQ 11 speakers but only 7 active at a time)
I think the statement "EQ 11 speakers" is wrong. Saying that sounds like you can add an external amp for any channel and assign the 3312/3313 internal amp to power up additional channels (eg: FL, FR, C, SL, SR, SBL, SBR on external amp, with DSX FWL, FWR, FHL & FHR on internal amp), which I doubt it can work. Only 4311 can do that.
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post #826 of 10929 Old 07-07-2012, 08:34 AM
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@drewconnor...

if i was buying the 3313 just for the matrix switch, and i could afford the 4520...

i would either...

- wait for the 4520...
or
- buy a 4311 and a "good" external hdmi matrix switch...

option 2 would be cheaper, and to be honest, probably likely more flexible...

i have extensive experience with mcacc, xt and xt32... xt32 is worth every penny you pay for it... it is a significant upgrade over xt, and mcacc isn't even worth comparing to it...

- chris

 

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post #827 of 10929 Old 07-07-2012, 09:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

i have extensive experience with mcacc, xt and xt32... xt32 is worth every penny you pay for it... it is a significant upgrade over xt, and mcacc isn't even worth comparing to it...

Where's that envy emoticon when you need one? smile.gif

With many of today's units, XT is included. Short of hiring a pro-installer, what can a poor boy do to acquire XT32? confused.gif

When you post significant, are you saying Kathy Bates vs Barbara Eden significant or Janine Turner vs Barbara Eden significant? I'm sure I could find it in me to live with either of the last two examples. rolleyes.gif
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post #828 of 10929 Old 07-07-2012, 10:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post

Regarding the 3312 & 3313 comparison:
Quote:
Both have 11 speaker posts but only 7.2 ch pre-amp outputs (i.e. can connect + EQ 11 speakers but only 7 active at a time)
I think the statement "EQ 11 speakers" is wrong.

except for the part where it's right.
Quote:
Saying that sounds like you can add an external amp for any channel and assign the 3312/3313 internal amp to power up additional channels (eg: FL, FR, C, SL, SR, SBL, SBR on external amp, with DSX FWL, FWR, FHL & FHR on internal amp), which I doubt it can work.

That is a huge inference do draw from the (accurate) statement that the receiver can EQ up to 11 connected speakers, especially when it's followed by the utterly concise and explanatory caveat "ONLY SEVEN ACTIVE AT A TIME" which totally overrules your hypothetical.

Perhaps in pursuit of bullet point brevity it's not 100% clear to the lay reader, but it's definitely not wrong.

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post #829 of 10929 Old 07-07-2012, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hamel View Post

So, with recent-year Denon AVRs, how often have owners had to resort to resetting their microprocessors? (I've never had to do this with my old AVR-4306.) And if the microprocessor is reset, does that typically fix for good the problem that the owner had been having with the unit?
I bought a new 3313CI last weekend and have had the unit lock up on me on four occasions already. (By lockup, I mean that the unit becomes unresponsive to the remote and to button pushes on the unit itself (e.g., I can't even turn the unit off).) I have to unplug and then replug the 3313CI in order to regain control of it. (And yes, early on I did indeed install the latest firmware update.) So, last night, after the fourth lockup, I reset the microprocessor and will be watching closely for any recurrence of this problem. If a lockup does happen again, I guess I will try to return the unit to the retailer and get a new one.

Well, I exchanged my original 3313ci for a new 3313ci after the original unit would occasionally lockup up on me. This occasional lockup occurred with the latest firmware and even after a microprocessor reset.

And now the very same lockup is occasionally occurring with the second brand new unit! As I write this, the unit continues to play HD Radio audio in the Main Zone while it continues to send HDMI audio and video (source: CBL/SAT HDMI input) to a Zone 2 monitor. But the unit does not respond to any of the remote control buttons nor to any of the front panel buttons on the unit itself. I cannot change the source or the volume with the two front panel knobs nor can I even power the unit off. A microprocessor reset is impossible from the current locked up situation. My only recourse will be to unplug the unit and then plug it back in. But, of course, this is not a viable workaround.

I haven't yet updated the firmware on this second 3313ci, but given my experience with the first unit, I do not expect the current latest firmware will fix this problem. I also doubt that a microprocessor reset will fix the problem since it did not do so with the first 3313ci.

Because my lockups seem to have only occured (if I'm not mistaken) when I am exercising the 3313ci's Zone 2 independent HDMI output option, I wonder if this defect in the 3313ci could be related to this being Denon's first attempt to implement such a capability in one of their AVRs. (It is, isn't it?) Or could this be some sort of heat-related issue or simply a faulty component issue?

I'll call Denon support again next week, but all they could suggest when I called last week was to reset the microprocessor.

For the record, the difference between the serial numbers on the two units I have tested is 159.
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post #830 of 10929 Old 07-07-2012, 03:46 PM
 
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Dumb question on my part, what version HDMI cable are you using? 1.3 or 1.4? I read on one of the forums here, the wrong version can be a problem.

Having read your post several times and I'm sure this isn't the problem but I have to ask as this is the second unit you're experiencing this internal lockup problem with.
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post #831 of 10929 Old 07-07-2012, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Dumb question on my part, what version HDMI cable are you using? 1.3 or 1.4? I read on one of the forums here, the wrong version can be a problem.
Having read you post several times, I'm sure this isn't the problem but I have to ask as this is the second unit you're experiencing this internal lockup problem.

From the AVR-3313ci to each monitor, I'm using a 15-ft run of 24AWG CL2 High Speed HDMI Cable With Ethernet w/ Net Jacket (Monoprice item #6077), which I believe is HDMI 1.4 cable. With such a cable, I've never had any problem getting the requested audio/video source through to the MainZone monitor or the Zone 2 monitor. It is just that for some unknown reason, the two AVR-3313CIs have each just become unresponsive, requiring me to unplug/replug the respective power cords in order to regain control.
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post #832 of 10929 Old 07-07-2012, 05:17 PM
 
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Will only the Denon 3313Cl work? That's very frustrating to have two units with the same problem. My sympathies. frown.gif

I know this defeats the purpose of the 3313Cl and it's a bit more expensive but can you simply get two receivers for multi-room use?

Personally, I'd rather go with two units for multi-room use, but that's me, not you.
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post #833 of 10929 Old 07-07-2012, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Will only the Denon 3313Cl work? That's very frustrating to have two units with the same problem. My sympathies. frown.gif

Well, aside from more HDMI inputs and a host of other improvements made since my old Denon AVR-4306 was the new kid on the block, I really wanted to take advantage of the 3313CI's independent Zone 2 HDMI output. But I'm not desperate for a new AVR. If I end up returning the second 3313CI, the old 4306 will still be fine for the time being.
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post #834 of 10929 Old 07-07-2012, 05:35 PM
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HDMI v1.4 defines the names used for the five different types of HDMI cables: low speed, high speed, low speed with ethernet, high speed with ethernet, and automotive. It is not itself a spec for a particular type of cable. Anyone who tries to convince you that it does is being misleading. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI#Cables

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post #835 of 10929 Old 07-07-2012, 05:40 PM
 
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^^^

Not sure of your comment as even the Wiki link writes of standards which specifications set. confused.gif
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post #836 of 10929 Old 07-07-2012, 05:56 PM
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You need cables certified high speed in order for 1080p, 3D and 4K signals to be transmitted reliably.

If you just say it has to be HDMI V1.4 compatible, you might wind up with a standard speed cable which will cause your 1080p video to be intermittent.

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post #837 of 10929 Old 07-07-2012, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Will only the Denon 3313Cl work? That's very frustrating to have two units with the same problem. My sympathies. frown.gif
I know this defeats the purpose of the 3313Cl and it's a bit more expensive but can you simply get two receivers for multi-room use?
Personally, I'd rather go with two units for multi-room use, but that's me, not you.

Well, I don't actually have a multi-room situation. All I wanted to do was to define my MainZone to be the HDMI #1 input on my monitor and my Zone2 to be the HDMI #2 input on the same monitor. This would then allow me to listen to the audio of some HDMI source (.g., Apple TV) while at the same time viewing the video of some other HDMI source (e.g., TiVo) -- all in the same room. By default, the Denon plays in the MainZone the audio and video of a single selected source. But the Video Source setting allows you to view in the MainZone (i.e., via the Monitor1 (MainZone) video output) the video of some other source while listening to the original audio source "as long as that second video source is not an HDMI source." My approach allows me to circumvent this limitation by sending the video of a second HDMI source to Zone2.
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post #838 of 10929 Old 07-07-2012, 06:35 PM
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I need to ask this question. it was addressed in an Onkyo forum but not thoroughly. Why does Audyssey put my cross overs for the rears at 140hz when they are specifically rated at 80hz. Then I'm being told I shouldn't adjust to 80hz. That makes no sense why would I leave them inaccurately higher?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

You need cables certified high speed in order for 1080p, 3D and 4K signals to be transmitted reliably.
If you just say it has to be HDMI V1.4 compatible, you might wind up with a standard speed cable which will cause your 1080p video to be intermittent.

Got it. I wasn't including all of the possible 1.4 standards in the simple of the comment.
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post #840 of 10929 Old 07-07-2012, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BeeMan458 View Post

Got it. I wasn't including all of the possible 1.4 standards in the simple of the comment.
All HDMI cables will work exactly the same at less than 10 ft. There's no such thing as 1.4 cables. 1.4 stands for the version of the input on the product. The only cable that is truly different is the one that has Ethernet in it. And I don't think one product uses it. Most HDMI cables are high speed now and even ones that are not as long as they are short in length nothing will be affected. Any one who tells you other wise really just is confused. Most of the time the same people that spend $150 on monster cables.

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