The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 292 - AVS Forum
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Receivers, Amps, and Processors > The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ
MGNdad's Avatar MGNdad 02:45 PM 07-25-2013
Sorry, Only saw SP as first relpy. Thanks to all for input. Will go later & see about it.

SanchoPanza's Avatar SanchoPanza 02:48 PM 07-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by MGNdad View Post

Sorry, Only saw SP as first relpy. Thanks to all for input. Will go later & see about it.

sounds like you have a VERY good price...
Deathalo's Avatar Deathalo 04:42 PM 07-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by bierboy View Post

Just got a notice of a firmware update for the 1713 and loading it now....

I have a 1613 and just got a firmware update as well, updating right now, what did it change for you?
bierboy's Avatar bierboy 06:13 PM 07-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathalo View Post

I have a 1613 and just got a firmware update as well, updating right now, what did it change for you?

Nothing that I've been able to determine yet....but I haven't been digging much.
batpig's Avatar batpig 06:18 PM 07-25-2013
Most firmware updates aren't going to change anything obvious, usually bug fixes (e.g. HDMI handshake problems with certain cable boxes or network connectivity issues) and background stuff. So you aren't likely to see anything. JD will post the changelog info in post #6 of this thread when he gets it.
jdsmoothie's Avatar jdsmoothie 06:20 PM 07-25-2013
Likely the same update the 3313CI just received last week on the 18th. Review post #6 of this thread for the 3313CI until I can update the post for your specific models.
MGNdad's Avatar MGNdad 06:33 PM 07-25-2013
JD, Batpig, (again), just got back from mortar store re: 3313ci open box. It was mislabeled --- asit is missing everything. I know the newer remotes cannot control other devices so my question (concern) is will my 2310 remote (RC1117) work with 3313 and will the microphone (DM-A409) work (with DSX) ? Still haggling on price. Thanks again !
jdsmoothie's Avatar jdsmoothie 07:09 PM 07-25-2013
Although the 2310CI mic will work with the 3313CI, there will be commands missing on the remote that will be needed, so you would be better served picking up a Harmony remote to not only replace the Denon remote but your other device remotes as well.
netgem21's Avatar netgem21 05:29 AM 07-26-2013
Hey guys, I wonder if you can help! I've got an AVR-2113 (upgraded from an AVR-1909) and unless I have dynamic volume set to medium, system volume (on any input) is horrendously low. I have to set the receiver to -15dB just to get my subwoofer to kick-in from standby — even higher to watch a film at an enjoyable volume. Tried a reset, recalibration, and this week's firmware update to no avail. Is this a widespread issue or is it just me? Thanks! biggrin.gif
Selden Ball's Avatar Selden Ball 10:47 AM 07-26-2013
netgem21,

Your symptoms are consistent with the subwoofer trim being set too low in the receiver.

Did you check the trim level that the calibration set for your subwoofer? Remember that if it's pegged at -12dB, the subwoofer's own volume control knob is set too high and Audyssey couldn't turn the receiver's output down far enough to get a valid calibration. A trim level closer to 0dB will produce a higher receiver output which will be more easily detected by the subwoofer's auto-on circuits.

Please take the time to review the Audyssey FAQ and 101 at http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51750#post_21782993 The instructions in the receiver's manual are overly simplified.
netgem21's Avatar netgem21 11:00 AM 07-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

netgem21,

Your symptoms are consistent with the subwoofer trim being set too low in the receiver.

Did you check the trim level that the calibration set for your subwoofer? Remember that if it's pegged at -12dB, the subwoofer's own volume control knob is set too high and Audyssey couldn't turn the receiver's output down far enough to get a valid calibration. A trim level closer to 0dB will produce a higher receiver output which will be more easily detected by the subwoofer's auto-on circuits.

Please take the time to review the Audyssey FAQ and 101 at http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51750#post_21782993 The instructions in the receiver's manual are overly simplified.

Thank you for your reply, Selden Ball. Yes, I noticed it was set to -12dB. I set the sub's volume at 50%, as Audyssey instructed, but it was still incredibly thumpy. I manually reduced the sub's volume but didn't adjust the trim setting on the AVR. Would this affect the output of the other channels, though? They're all set at 0dB. If so, I'll re-calibrate on a lower setting and report back.
Selden Ball's Avatar Selden Ball 11:23 AM 07-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by netgem21 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

netgem21,

Your symptoms are consistent with the subwoofer trim being set too low in the receiver.

Did you check the trim level that the calibration set for your subwoofer? Remember that if it's pegged at -12dB, the subwoofer's own volume control knob is set too high and Audyssey couldn't turn the receiver's output down far enough to get a valid calibration. A trim level closer to 0dB will produce a higher receiver output which will be more easily detected by the subwoofer's auto-on circuits.

Please take the time to review the Audyssey FAQ and 101 at http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51750#post_21782993 The instructions in the receiver's manual are overly simplified.

Thank you for your reply, Selden Ball. Yes, I noticed it was set to -12dB. I set the sub's volume at 50%, as Audyssey instructed, but it was still incredibly thumpy. I manually reduced the sub's volume but didn't adjust the trim setting on the AVR. Would this affect the output of the other channels, though? They're all set at 0dB. If so, I'll re-calibrate on a lower setting and report back.

You're welcome.

You shouldn't need to adjust the trim levels in the receiver until after you've listened to it for a few days and decided you don't like the sound. Be sure to follow the microphone placement guidelines in the Audyssey 101 guidelines mentioned above. When the microphone is too close to an obstruction (back wall, chair back, sofa seat, etc) the resulting "calibration" won't be very good. After following the guidelines, if the calibration results in audio that is still way out of whack, it could be that you have a defective microphone.

You do need to re-run Audyssey's calibration each time you turn down the sub's own volume control knob. You only have to run the first calibration point (at the main listening position) so you can check the trim level. If the trim's OK, then run a full 8-point calibration.

The calibrations of the other speaker channels won't change if the microphone positions are exactly the same each time. Unfortunately, it's extremely difficult to get the positions exactly the same. Using a $20 boom microphone stand makes it quite a bit easier.

In principle, you should get much better sound once your sub has been properly calibrated and you've set all the other speaker channels set to "Small" (i.e. enable bass management) so that their low frequencies are redirected to the sub.

Again, please review the Audyssey FAQ. It explains all this in much more detail.
netgem21's Avatar netgem21 11:27 AM 07-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

You're welcome.

You shouldn't need to adjust the trim levels in the receiver until after you've listened to it for a few days and decided you don't like the sound. Be sure to follow the microphone placement guidelines in the Audyssey 101 guidelines mentioned above. When the microphone is too close to an obstruction (back wall, chair back, sofa seat, etc) the resulting "calibration" won't be very good. After following the guidelines, if the calibration results in audio that is still way out of whack, it could be that you have a defective microphone.

You do need to re-run Audyssey's calibration each time you turn down the sub's own volume control knob. You only have to run the first calibration point (at the main listening position) so you can check the trim level. If the trim's OK, then run a full 8-point calibration.

The calibrations of the other speaker channels won't change if the microphone positions are exactly the same each time. Unfortunately, it's extremely difficult to get the positions exactly the same. Using a $20 boom microphone stand makes it quite a bit easier.

In principle, you should get much better sound once your sub has been properly calibrated and you've set all the other speaker channels set to "Small" (i.e. enable bass management) so that their low frequencies are redirected to the sub.

Again, please review the Audyssey FAQ. It explains all this in much more detail.

OK, will do. But do you think this is directly related to the low volume issue I'm experiencing through the other channels?

Again, it's very puzzling as they're all set to 0dB. With dynamic volume, they sound totally normal. But when dynamic volume is disabled, they drop right down to almost inaudible levels.
Selden Ball's Avatar Selden Ball 12:12 PM 07-26-2013
I'm really not sure what would be causing the difference you're hearing that Dynamic Volume would correct for. Normally it's used to reduce the difference between the quietest and loudest noises, reducing the sound level of explosions without reducing the sound level of dialog.

However, what is the master volume setting on the receiver?

"Reference" is either 80 or 0 depending on if you're using "absolute" or "relative" volume display. Most people listen to movies at about 55 or -25, respectively. Listening below reference usually means that Dynamic EQ (not Dynamic Volume) needs to be enabled to recover the apparent volume level of the lowest and highest frequencies -- and the lowest frequencies presumably would be coming from your sub, which is essentially disabled until the low frequencies are boosted substantially.

What crossover frequencies are being used for your speakers?

If they're rather high (100 Hz or more), the sub not coming on might be part of the problem.
mvolps22's Avatar mvolps22 12:45 PM 07-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by mvolps22 View Post

I hooked up my refurbished AVR-1713 last night and after playing around with pandora and making sure everything was working properly I hooked up my Nexus 7 (Android tablet) to the ipod/usb connection in the front. The receiver said No Connection on the front and wouldn't play the audio from it. Do these receivers support the Android platform for music? I will say I wasn't using the Google Music app but I doubt that has anything to do with it.

Any help?
batpig's Avatar batpig 01:15 PM 07-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by netgem21 View Post

Again, it's very puzzling as they're all set to 0dB. With dynamic volume, they sound totally normal. But when dynamic volume is disabled, they drop right down to almost inaudible levels.

It's pretty odd that they're all set to 0dB. You have calibrated with Audyssey right? And they all came out EXACTLY at 0dB???

You definitely need to lower the volume on the subwoofer (try 1/4 way instead of 1/2 way) and re-run calibration.

Dynamic Volume will definitely boost the "apparent loudness" as it not only reduces loud sounds, but also raises up the soft stuff (dialogue, ambient noise). So in a sense it's totally normal to have to raise the volume considerably if you turn it off. Either way you should be using Dynamic EQ for the reasons Selden discusses above.

Before we go any further, can you define more precisely what volume levels you are using. Let's try and get a reference point to understand if what you are experiencing is normal. Take a typical Blu-ray action movie for example. With Dyn EQ ON / Dyn Vol OFF, what volume level do you need to get to "movie night" volume where it's loud enough to be enjoyable and rocking? If the answer is anywhere between -25 to -10 (relative) / 55-70 (absolute) then nothing is wrong, that is totally normal.
netgem21's Avatar netgem21 02:36 PM 07-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

I'm really not sure what would be causing the difference you're hearing that Dynamic Volume would correct for. Normally it's used to reduce the difference between the quietest and loudest noises, reducing the sound level of explosions without reducing the sound level of dialog.

However, what is the master volume setting on the receiver?

"Reference" is either 80 or 0 depending on if you're using "absolute" or "relative" volume display. Most people listen to movies at about 55 or -25, respectively. Listening below reference usually means that Dynamic EQ (not Dynamic Volume) needs to be enabled to recover the apparent volume level of the lowest and highest frequencies -- and the lowest frequencies presumably would be coming from your sub, which is essentially disabled until the low frequencies are boosted substantially.

What crossover frequencies are being used for your speakers?

If they're rather high (100 Hz or more), the sub not coming on might be part of the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

It's pretty odd that they're all set to 0dB. You have calibrated with Audyssey right? And they all came out EXACTLY at 0dB???

You definitely need to lower the volume on the subwoofer (try 1/4 way instead of 1/2 way) and re-run calibration.

Dynamic Volume will definitely boost the "apparent loudness" as it not only reduces loud sounds, but also raises up the soft stuff (dialogue, ambient noise). So in a sense it's totally normal to have to raise the volume considerably if you turn it off. Either way you should be using Dynamic EQ for the reasons Selden discusses above.

Before we go any further, can you define more precisely what volume levels you are using. Let's try and get a reference point to understand if what you are experiencing is normal. Take a typical Blu-ray action movie for example. With Dyn EQ ON / Dyn Vol OFF, what volume level do you need to get to "movie night" volume where it's loud enough to be enjoyable and rocking? If the answer is anywhere between -25 to -10 (relative) / 55-70 (absolute) then nothing is wrong, that is totally normal.

I calibrated with Audyssey initially, but I brought up the levels to 0dB to help alleviate the volume issue. With my previous receiver (AVR-1909), most Blu-rays played at a comfortable volume of around -35 or an 'immersive' volume of around -20. However, with the AVR-2113, I'm having to set a comfortable volume of around -15 and an 'immersive' volume usually around +5/+10, which obviously isn't a great idea. However, with Dynamic Volume enabled, everything plays as expected, like my old receiver.

I have Dynamic EQ, Dynamic Volume, and MultiEQ all enabled (...as far as I know. Can't quite remember the names, but everything in that menu is switched on with Dyn Vol set to Medium).

It just seems strange to me that this receiver has a higher output (+10W/channel) than my old receiver, yet produces a considerably lower volume. As for the sub, I'm not so worried about the automatic kick-in, as it has manual control too, but it's just reflective of the overall channel output being low.

Is there a 'hard reset' option for this AVR? I'm wondering if that might help. Thanks again guys, really appreciate your help with this.
Selden Ball's Avatar Selden Ball 02:48 PM 07-26-2013
netgem21,

I'm really starting to believe you have a defective microphone. The whole point of calibrating is that if your speakers and room are unchanged, you are supposed to hear the same sound level at the same volume setting no matter which Audyssey receiver you have.

A difference of 10 Watts cannot produce an audible difference. Also they use different measurement techniques, so the supposed 10 Watt difference might not exist at all.

A microprocessor reset followed by a recalibration might help

Edited to add:
How to do a reset is descriged on page 148 of your owner's manual.

batpig's Avatar batpig 02:51 PM 07-26-2013
Quote:
However, with the AVR-2113, I'm having to set a comfortable volume of around -15 and an 'immersive' volume usually around +5/+10, which obviously isn't a great idea.

This is definitely abnormal. I would do a microprocessor reset, instructions are in the manual.

On a side note, more power won't (or shouldn't) change the volume display after calibration. The point of calibration is to establish all speakers at a specific volume level. More power means more headroom, i.e. you can turn it up higher before it starts clipping/distorting.
netgem21's Avatar netgem21 02:53 PM 07-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

netgem21,

I'm really starting to believe you have a defective microphone. The whole point of calibrating is that if your speakers and room are unchanged, you are supposed to hear the same sound level at the same volume setting no matter which Audyssey receiver you have.

A difference of 10 Watts cannot produce an audible difference. Also they use different measurement techniques, so the supposed 10 Watt difference might not exist at all.

A microprocessor reset followed by a recalibration might help

I might give that a go then. How do I go about doing a full reset? Also, I still have the calibration microphone from my AVR-1909. Do you think this will work for the calibration if the new one is defective?

Still, this volume thing confuses me. Even if I bypass Audyssey and manually set the levels all to 0dB, the volume is still incredibly low. Have you experienced this issue yourself, by any chance?
netgem21's Avatar netgem21 02:58 PM 07-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

This is definitely abnormal. I would do a microprocessor reset, instructions are in the manual.

On a side note, more power won't (or shouldn't) change the volume display after calibration. The point of calibration is to establish all speakers at a specific volume level. More power means more headroom, i.e. you can turn it up higher before it starts clipping/distorting.

Thanks, batpig. I'm gonna give that reset another shot. Of note, I've noticed several people have posted on AVForums exhibiting similar issues with severely reduced volume (on this page). I'm wondering if I'm having the same issue?
Selden Ball's Avatar Selden Ball 03:01 PM 07-26-2013
I edited my reponse above to include the reset instructions, copy-and-pasted from the manual.

My audio system sounds appropriately loud. (I don't have the same equipment you do.)

Is there any chance you've accidentally enabled one of the Mute levels?
There's Full, -40dB and -20dB.
Your sound level is consistent with a 20dB reduction, perhaps.
See page 103 of the manual.

There's also the "Power On Volume" setting which is adjustable. See page 123.
netgem21's Avatar netgem21 03:05 PM 07-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

I edited my reponse above to include the reset instructions, copy-and-pasted from the manual.

My audio system sounds appropriately loud. (I don't have the same equipment you do.)

Is there any chance you've accidentally enabled one of the Mute levels?
There's Full, -40dB and -20dB.
Your sound level is consistent with a 20dB reduction, perhaps.
See page 103 of the manual.

Nope, checked that. Mute levels are normal. Just tried to post regarding this issue, but I think it was blocked because of the inclusion of a link. I found some people over at AVForums who I think seem to be having similar issues (bit [period] ly/14gP27w).
Selden Ball's Avatar Selden Ball 03:14 PM 07-26-2013
Hmm. Have you tried disabling the subwoofer or setting the fronts to large? (Assuming it's the same problem.) Note that a Factory Reset is not the same as a Microprocessor Reset. D&M usually don't document how to do a factory reset, although people often manage to find out what it is and post it here.
netgem21's Avatar netgem21 03:18 PM 07-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Hmm. Have you tried disabling the subwoofer or setting the fronts to large? (Assuming it's the same problem.) Note that a Factory Reset is not the same as a Microprocessor Reset. D&M usually don't document how to do a factory reset, although people often manage to find out what it is and post it here.

Ah, well I've definitely performed the microprocessor reset to no avail then. Not sure how to perform the full factory reset, however. I haven't tried disabling the subwoofer or setting the fronts to large, but I'll give it a go when I get home.
Selden Ball's Avatar Selden Ball 03:24 PM 07-26-2013
There's also a "network reset" which supposedly does more than just resetting the network logic. See post #5 on the first page of this thread. Maybe it'll help.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1409431/the-official-denon-avr-xx13-model-owners-thread-faq#post_21995260
netgem21's Avatar netgem21 03:31 PM 07-26-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

There's also a "network reset" which supposedly does more than just resetting the network logic. See post #5 on the first page of this thread. Maybe it'll help.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1409431/the-official-denon-avr-xx13-model-owners-thread-faq#post_21995260

Thanks, I'll give that a go too!
MGNdad's Avatar MGNdad 03:34 PM 07-26-2013
Hoped this was going to be a feel good story about the open box 3313. I did get it today for $499. No remote or mic. Had everything hooked up but video out started acting erratic from the get go. TV kept losing video & flashing different colors. AVR would seem to "lock up" and only way to power down was unplug. (Isn't the red light supposed to stay on when off (for stdy) ?Have all input unplugged & just trying to get menu to show up on any of the HDMI outs. Am I missing something ? Planning on just returning it tomorrow as I don't need this from the start. Unless someone can tell me what D/A mistake I've made. I can't even get throught the setup w/o it flaking out.
jdsmoothie's Avatar jdsmoothie 03:55 PM 07-26-2013
As is the case with any used unit, the first step is to reset the microprocessor (p. 176 OM). Also note that the "red" light above the ON/Standby button will only remain on if HMDI Control or Network Standby/IP Control is set to ON otherwise it will be OFF in Standby.
MGNdad's Avatar MGNdad 04:12 PM 07-26-2013
THanks, JD. Yes I did reset at least a dozen times, knowing the HDMI can be that way. I'm not sure how to check HDMI control on/off wiithout the GUI screen. the front panel only shows so much that I can see.
Tags: Denon Avr 1513 Receiver , Denon Avr 1613 Receiver , Denon Avr 1713 Receiver , Denon Avr 1913 Receiver , Denon Avr 2113ci Receiver , Denon Avr 2313ci Receiver , Denon Avr 3313ci Receiver , Denon
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