The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 346 - AVS Forum
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Receivers, Amps, and Processors > The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ
PhilipK's Avatar PhilipK 09:25 AM 03-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Philip,

If you're actually sitting the microphone stand on the sofa's cushions, then it will cause the microphone to vibrate, which will affect the calibration. In other words, I suggest trying a calibration series with it only sitting on the floor.

Hmm ok, then I guess it has been vibrating on every calibration when that is actually were I have been putting the stand. Do you think that it's a possible that it will solve my problem if I just remove the sofa and calibrate again? How about the bass resonance peak you described earlier?

The microphone that comes with the subwoofer does have a little stand holding the mic (http://www.brl.se/bilder/artiklar/zoom/111SPL800ULTRA_1.jpg), however I have not taped it to the boom arm. In fact I have just placed it loose on the boom arm at ear hight (same position as the audyssey mic), I can imagine some heavy vibrations here, maybe this can also be a reason for the not so good results?

Selden Ball's Avatar Selden Ball 10:45 AM 03-26-2014
The presence of the sofa should have a *large* effect on the calibration, so you should leave it there. Unless you're going to remove it permanently, of course wink.gif The calibration should be done in the environment that is present when you listen. I strongly urge that you invest in a real musician's boom microphone stand. They're only about $20. The Audyssey FAQ includes some suggested models at d)1. Do I really need to put the Audyssey mic on a tripod or stand?

I dunno how much vibration the subwoofer's mic would be experiencing, so I'm not sure what to say about that. "Obviously" you want it to vibrate as little as possible.

However, that does bring up the question of how the separate calibrations would interact with one another. Although it's not identical to what you have, recommendations are available at f)9. What's the best way to set up Audyssey when also using Velodyne's SMS-1 room EQ system?
Alan P's Avatar Alan P 11:10 AM 03-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipK View Post

Many thanks Alan! I did post in the subwoofer section and hopefully I will get some more useful information over there.

Do you think that the overall soundstage will be better if a place the center on the AV rack? I do not know if you read that I have tilted it upwards (with damping feets) towards the listening position?

/Philip

Yes, getting the center channel closer to the display is always a good thing. smile.gif

Try it, you got nothing to lose.
Nafizur's Avatar Nafizur 11:26 AM 03-26-2014
hi guys,

i have a denon avr 1913. I've been using for 6 months now. It is fantastic. I never used the mic to setup the speakers. I manually inputted how far each speakers are and that was it. I am wonder, is it better to use the mic to set it up? Does the mic actually do anything more than just set the distance of the speaker? i know it also selects the Hertz. I used it the first time and it selected like a higher frequency than what the speakers manufactuer suggested, that's why i ended up manually setting up the speakers. I have the energy take classic 5.1 speakers.
Alan P's Avatar Alan P 11:37 AM 03-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nafizur View Post

hi guys,

i have a denon avr 1913. I've been using for 6 months now. It is fantastic. I never used the mic to setup the speakers. I manually inputted how far each speakers are and that was it. I am wonder, is it better to use the mic to set it up? Does the mic actually do anything more than just set the distance of the speaker? i know it also selects the Hertz. I used it the first time and it selected like a higher frequency than what the speakers manufactuer suggested, that's why i ended up manually setting up the speakers. I have the energy take classic 5.1 speakers.

Short answer - YES!

http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-51779/51750#post_21782993
batpig's Avatar batpig 11:38 AM 03-26-2014
Definitely use the mic and run Audyssey. The Audyssey MultEQ calibration does a LOT more than just set the levels and distance.

The manufacturer specs for those speakers are probably generous as they are tiny satellites. When you run Audyssey it actually measures their response in your room, so the crossover values are going to be more accurate because it takes into account the interaction of the speaker with your room acoustics.

Additionally, MultEQ creates custom EQ filers for each of your speakers to remove negative impacts of room acoustics. And, after you run Audyssey, you are able to use supplement technologies like Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume.
Nafizur's Avatar Nafizur 11:40 AM 03-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Definitely use the mic and run Audyssey. The Audyssey MultEQ calibration does a LOT more than just set the levels and distance.

The manufacturer specs for those speakers are probably generous as they are tiny satellites. When you run Audyssey it actually measures their response in your room, so the crossover values are going to be more accurate because it takes into account the interaction of the speaker with your room acoustics.

Additionally, MultEQ creates custom EQ filers for each of your speakers to remove negative impacts of room acoustics. And, after you run Audyssey, you are able to use supplement technologies like Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume.

thanks so much for the reply, i don't really have a mic stand, so i'll try to place it on top of a stick or something to make it look like a stand i guess. But once i'm done the set up, what kind of change can i expect? How can i seee or hear some difference?
UGAd13's Avatar UGAd13 02:22 PM 03-26-2014
Either buy a cheap stand or... You can use a table lamp. Unscrew the nut holding down the lamp shade. It should fit. (Not that I've done that or anything...)

Yes, you will see/hear a difference, especially at lower volumes with dynamic eq.

Do it!
PhilipK's Avatar PhilipK 02:25 PM 03-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

The presence of the sofa should have a *large* effect on the calibration, so you should leave it there. Unless you're going to remove it permanently, of course wink.gif The calibration should be done in the environment that is present when you listen. I strongly urge that you invest in a real musician's boom microphone stand. They're only about $20. The Audyssey FAQ includes some suggested models at d)1. Do I really need to put the Audyssey mic on a tripod or stand?

I dunno how much vibration the subwoofer's mic would be experiencing, so I'm not sure what to say about that. "Obviously" you want it to vibrate as little as possible.

However, that does bring up the question of how the separate calibrations would interact with one another. Although it's not identical to what you have, recommendations are available at f)9. What's the best way to set up Audyssey when also using Velodyne's SMS-1 room EQ system?

Then I guess that I need to buy a musicians stand to be able to calibrate on the listening posion if the sofa should stay in place.

I have read that it should be fine to first calibrate the subwoofer with its internal eq and then run Audyssey.

Your help in this matter is really appreciated, many thanks!
Selden Ball's Avatar Selden Ball 03:03 PM 03-26-2014
When you get a musician's boom mic stand, make sure you get an adapter for the microphone: the mics recommended for use with REW have the same threads as are used by cameras, as does the Radio Shack sound level meter. They aren't the same as the threads in musicians' microphones. Some stands come with an adapter, some don't.

Calibrating with the subwoofer's EQ first does let the subwoofer's EQ do most of the work, leaving that much less for Audyssey to do, so that (in principle, anyhow) it can do a better job. Obviously in your situation this isn't the case. frown.gif

You're very welcome for what little help I've provided which isn't misleading. JD pointed out in a PM that the boom microphone stand mentioned in the FAQ actually winds up costing more like $40-50 with the adapter, but I'm sure people have written about finding less expensive models.
PhilipK's Avatar PhilipK 03:15 PM 03-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

When you get a musician's boom mic stand, make sure you get an adapter for the microphone: the mics recommended for use with REW have the same threads as are used by cameras, as does the Radio Shack sound level meter. They aren't the same as the threads in musicians' microphones. Some stands come with an adapter, some don't.

Calibrating with the subwoofer's EQ first does let the subwoofer's EQ do most of the work, leaving that much less for Audyssey to do, so that (in principle, anyhow) it can do a better job. Obviously in your situation this isn't the case. frown.gif

You're very welcome for what little help I've provided which isn't misleading. JD pointed out in a PM that the boom microphone stand mentioned in the FAQ actually winds up costing more like $40-50 with the adapter, but I'm sure people have written about finding less expensive models.

I did find a quite cheap microphone stand - http://www.kjell.com/sortiment/ljud-bild/pa-ljud-underhallning/mikrofoner-tillbehor/mikrofonstativ-tillbehor/mikrofonstativ-med-bom-p24521, now I just need to find a suitable adapter.

I may try to leave the subwoofer eq and just go with Audyssey (I think that I've tried it before but I may be wrong). Do you think that it will be best to make all 8 measurments "on the sofa" when I have received the stand and adapter? I mean if it's best to skip the front and back and just stick to the main seat and around (you have seen the pictures so you probably know what i mean smile.gif )
Nafizur's Avatar Nafizur 03:22 PM 03-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by UGAd13 View Post

Either buy a cheap stand or... You can use a table lamp. Unscrew the nut holding down the lamp shade. It should fit. (Not that I've done that or anything...)

Yes, you will see/hear a difference, especially at lower volumes with dynamic eq.

Do it!

So do i have to turn on this "dynamic eq" or does it automaticlly happen when the volume is low? Like after i set up with the auddesy, does everything happen on its own or will i need to do somethign else? When i watch movies now, most of them switches to DTS HD or Dolbi Digital or True HD
Alan P's Avatar Alan P 03:39 PM 03-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipK View Post

I did find a quite cheap microphone stand - http://www.kjell.com/sortiment/ljud-bild/pa-ljud-underhallning/mikrofoner-tillbehor/mikrofonstativ-tillbehor/mikrofonstativ-med-bom-p24521, now I just need to find a suitable adapter.

I may try to leave the subwoofer eq and just go with Audyssey (I think that I've tried it before but I may be wrong). Do you think that it will be best to make all 8 measurments "on the sofa" when I have received the stand and adapter? I mean if it's best to skip the front and back and just stick to the main seat and around (you have seen the pictures so you probably know what i mean smile.gif )

I would do a quick 2 point Audyssey at the MLP without moving the mic at all - trying different sub placements, sub EQ, sub gain settings, etc. - until I got satisfactory bass at the MLP. Only then would I run the full 8 positions.

If the bass sucks with a 2 point calibration, it won't get much better with 8 points.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nafizur View Post

So do i have to turn on this "dynamic eq" or does it automaticlly happen when the volume is low? Like after i set up with the auddesy, does everything happen on its own or will i need to do somethign else? When i watch movies now, most of them switches to DTS HD or Dolbi Digital or True HD

Dynamic EQ is engaged by default on most AVRs after running Audyssey. You can find it in the AUDIO/AUDYSSEY menu. Make sure you turn OFF Dynamic Volume (unless you like that sort of thing....most don't).
Alan P's Avatar Alan P 03:42 PM 03-26-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipK View Post

I did find a quite cheap microphone stand - http://www.kjell.com/sortiment/ljud-bild/pa-ljud-underhallning/mikrofoner-tillbehor/mikrofonstativ-tillbehor/mikrofonstativ-med-bom-p24521, now I just need to find a suitable adapter.

Here's the kind of clip I use for my Audyssey mic. Hopefully you can find something similar in your region.
PhilipK's Avatar PhilipK 02:25 AM 03-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

Here's the kind of clip I use for my Audyssey mic. Hopefully you can find something similar in your region.

Thanks! I found this one in a store nearby my office: http://www.jam.se/studio/mikrofontillb/A82944-Adam-Hall_Adapter_kulled_mikstativ-kamera__DCAM1/ - wouldn't that be a better choice? It looks exactly as the one recommended in the Audyssey support forum. Isn't it hard to fix the rather large microphone base on the one that you have?
jdsmoothie's Avatar jdsmoothie 05:31 AM 03-27-2014
^^
Yes.
purplerain's Avatar purplerain 07:03 AM 03-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

Whatever you prefer. smile.gif

For TV, I use Dolby PLIIx Cinema. Music, Dolby PLIIx Music. Blu Ray, whatever is appropriate to the source signal (i.e. True HD, DTS, Dolby Digital, etc.).

Multi-Stereo seems to put out the best for me in regards to my 2313.

I tried Dolby PLII for both music and TV, but sound seems way lower compared to multi-stereo....
Alan P's Avatar Alan P 10:12 AM 03-27-2014
Ummm...multi-stereo outputs the same full range signal to all speakers. This is also known as "Party Mode", only to be used when you have a lot of people in the room and just would like some background music that surrounds the entire room.
Quote:
Originally Posted by purplerain View Post

I tried Dolby PLII for both music and TV, but sound seems way lower compared to multi-stereo....

You should use the correct surround mode for the content...and then turn up the master volume. wink.gif


As a side note, a buddy of mine has been using "Party Mode" for everything, for years and years....every time I go over to his house I explain why he shouldn't do that, and he nods and agrees, but the next time I'm over it's back in multi channel stereo again. rolleyes.gif I guess there's just no accounting for preference sometimes.
Alan P's Avatar Alan P 10:14 AM 03-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilipK View Post

Thanks! I found this one in a store nearby my office: http://www.jam.se/studio/mikrofontillb/A82944-Adam-Hall_Adapter_kulled_mikstativ-kamera__DCAM1/ - wouldn't that be a better choice? It looks exactly as the one recommended in the Audyssey support forum. Isn't it hard to fix the rather large microphone base on the one that you have?

Much better! I need to find one of those.
purplerain's Avatar purplerain 11:50 AM 03-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

Ummm...multi-stereo outputs the same full range signal to all speakers. This is also known as "Party Mode", only to be used when you have a lot of people in the room and just would like some background music that surrounds the entire room.
You should use the correct surround mode for the content...and then turn up the master volume. wink.gif


As a side note, a buddy of mine has been using "Party Mode" for everything, for years and years....every time I go over to his house I explain why he shouldn't do that, and he nods and agrees, but the next time I'm over it's back in multi channel stereo again. rolleyes.gif I guess there's just no accounting for preference sometimes.

It seems that my 2313 automatically goes to multi-stereo. Is there a set way that I can keep it on Dolby PLII?
Alan P's Avatar Alan P 12:38 PM 03-27-2014
Page 69 of your owners manual. smile.gif
Nafizur's Avatar Nafizur 12:57 PM 03-27-2014
okay, so got the auddesyy set up and everything. Just want to know, when i watch sattelite/cable.. what mode should the audio be in? Also, when i listen to music via airplay.. should i change the audio mode? the receiver always shows STEREO. It only changes to DTS or Dolby Digital when i watch bluray movies.
batpig's Avatar batpig 12:58 PM 03-27-2014
@ purplerain -- All Denon AVR's work the same way -- by default they memorize the surround mode based on input source and signal. So for example if you want a 2ch signal from your cable box to get PLII Cinema, whereas a 2ch signal from your CD player should stay in STEREO mode, it will remember the difference, and these choices will not affect how it handles a 5.1 Dolby Digital signal.

So if your receiver is defaulting to Multich Stereo when it gets a 2ch input signal, that means you chose that surround mode at some point in the past and now it is remembering your preference. So simply change the surround mode and it will remember the new choice the next time.
batpig's Avatar batpig 12:59 PM 03-27-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nafizur View Post

okay, so got the auddesyy set up and everything. Just want to know, when i watch sattelite/cable.. what mode should the audio be in? Also, when i listen to music via airplay.. should i change the audio mode? the receiver always shows STEREO. It only changes to DTS or Dolby Digital when i watch bluray movies.

That's really up to you. Some people like leaving stereo as stereo, others like upmixing with Pro Logic or Multch Stereo as discussed just above. Use your ears wink.gif
Nafizur's Avatar Nafizur 01:05 PM 03-27-2014
oh.. ok ok.. so when i press the RED (music) button on the remote, it will switch to those different mode. Prollogic and stuff. I see.

Another quick questions, when i play my ps4 and let's say i'm playing call of duty.. the receiver automatically switches to dolby digital. Would it be better to press the GAME button on the remote? or use what original dolby feed that coming from the game. Like if i press the game button.. will i lose certain audio detail or something?
batpig's Avatar batpig 01:50 PM 03-27-2014
In almost all cases, if the input signal is already multichannel (5.1 or better) you don't have to do anything, just accept the default decoding of the signal and let it play. Usually you only really have to make decisions is with how to handle stereo (2ch) input signals.

The only time you would need to change the surround mode with a 5.1+ input signal is if you have MORE than 5.1 speakers and want to matrix sound to those extra speakers. For example, if you have a 7.1 setup with surround backs you would need to apply PLIIx to matrix a 5.1 signal to 7.1 channels.
DonnyKerabatsos's Avatar DonnyKerabatsos 06:15 PM 03-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
If the sources are assigned to the same source name, then you can change the INPUT MODE setting to listen to analog while watching HDMI video, but no HDMI video and audio from different sources.

Thanks for the response.  I'm sorry, but I do not understand what this means.  Are you saying, for example, that I plug in my RCA plugs from my phono preamp to the input labeled "CBL/SAT" on the AVR, with my cable box  running though HDMI to the port labeled "CBL/SAT"?  If that is what I am supposed to do to be able to listen to records while watching sports, can you walk me through the menus to change the audio source, please?  

 

Also, is there a way to have the AVR play an AirPlay device while using HDMI video input for any sources?

 

Thanks.


batpig's Avatar batpig 06:26 PM 03-28-2014
Quote:
Also, is there a way to have the AVR play an AirPlay device while using HDMI video input for any sources?

No, but this feature was added for the newer E/X series models.
AlphaPie's Avatar AlphaPie 06:33 PM 03-28-2014
For some reason when using airplay while in stereo mode my sub is not used, but when put in movie mode it is. Suggestions to make sub work in stereo?
jdsmoothie's Avatar jdsmoothie 06:45 PM 03-28-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonnyKerabatsos View Post

Thanks for the response.  I'm sorry, but I do not understand what this means.  Are you saying, for example, that I plug in my RCA plugs from my phono preamp to the input labeled "CBL/SAT" on the AVR, with my cable box  running though HDMI to the port labeled "CBL/SAT"?  If that is what I am supposed to do to be able to listen to records while watching sports, can you walk me through the menus to change the audio source, please?  

Also, is there a way to have the AVR play an AirPlay device while using HDMI video input for any sources?

Thanks.

Correct. Main --> Setup --> Input Select --> Analog (p. 110 Owner's manual)
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