The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 373 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11161 of 11189 Old 04-24-2015, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by EricST View Post
I look through the thread and didn't see a real answer to my problem.
My 2112ci will connect to the Net because i can stream Net radio but when i try and check for firmware update is says connection failed.
The Denon servers have been down all week. Try again next week.

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post #11162 of 11189 Old 04-24-2015, 04:42 PM
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Hey JD,
Quick question, I'm looking to upgrade my 2310ci which I really love mainly for these features:
'Optical Out'
'Phono'
'Audio IN' (at least six)
'A/C Outlets'
...and the plethora of legacy I/O (S-Video, Component)
(see pics)
Only problem is I'm running out of HDMI. I want to stay with Denon but also don't want to omit the things I mentioned. I can probably live w/o the AC outlets but Phono is a must. Also, I mentioned way back before that Denon has also omitted the screen input (source) but only shows the output speaker icons. Do the current ones show IN/OUT through remote switchable?
What would be the closest model? Budget is under $700. Thanks!

Input/Output display icons


I/O




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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The Denon servers have been down all week. Try again next week.
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post #11163 of 11189 Old 04-24-2015, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 80sGuy View Post
Hey JD,
Quick question, I'm looking to upgrade my 2310ci which I really love mainly for these features:
'Optical Out'
'Phono'
'Audio IN' (at least six)
'A/C Outlets'
...and the plethora of legacy I/O (S-Video, Component)
(see pics)
Only problem is I'm running out of HDMI. I want to stay with Denon but also don't want to omit the things I mentioned. I can probably live w/o the AC outlets but Phono is a must. Also, I mentioned way back before that Denon has also omitted the screen input (source) but only shows the output speaker icons. Do the current ones show IN/OUT through remote switchable?
What would be the closest model? Budget is under $700. Thanks!
The GUI displayed on the TV shows both INPUT and OUTPUT speaker/sub icons, while the front panel display on the X3100W and lower models shows the INPUT icons and the X4100W and higher can show either INPUT or OUTPUT. The X4100W is the lowest model with a PHONO input so you may be better served purchasing a 3rd party PHONO pre-amp for about $50. Although the 2310CI would be between the X2100W and X3100W, you may be better served simply buying an external HDMI switch from Monoprice and keep using the 2310CI.

http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_i...seq=1&format=2

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post #11164 of 11189 Old 04-24-2015, 07:40 PM
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What a huge difference in price between my 2310ci and the rests. I paid $490 for mine and the newer ones are all over $1K with less than I want - besides a few more HDMI, newer Dolby and Audyssey. Huge difference!
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post #11165 of 11189 Old 04-27-2015, 05:19 PM
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Just received a call from the service technician. He confirmed that one or more of the firmware sections are corrupt. This is very peculiar because I have not performed any manual firmware updates on the unit since last year, and it was working fine a month ago. He's going to perform a factory firmware update, followed by a web update to bring the receiver to the current version (whatever that is).

He also indicated that Denon's firmware update website has been down frequently over the past two weeks.

I'll keep you posted as to the results. Crossing my fingers the flash will be successful and that the network interface will once again work.

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Originally Posted by BlueTip View Post
Having the same problem here! I've had my Denon 3313ci since November 2013 (working fine) and I fired it up today to check for a firmware update...

- no link light on the switch (swapped cable, changed switch ports)
- no firmware version is shown in the UI
- no mac address is shown in the UI
- all other firmware and network options are greyed out
- microprocessor and network resets (several each) have made no difference

This is really quite annoying!

I've taken my 3313ci in for diagnostics at my local Abt Electronics (reporting the symptoms above) and I should hear back in a few days.

Does anyone have any updates on this issue? Is it really true that all these AVR's are suffering from hardware failure, or could this just be some type of non-volatile memory corruption issue?
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post #11166 of 11189 Old 04-28-2015, 04:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueTip View Post
Just received a call from the service technician. He confirmed that one or more of the firmware sections are corrupt. This is very peculiar because I have not performed any manual firmware updates on the unit since last year, and it was working fine a month ago. He's going to perform a factory firmware update, followed by a web update to bring the receiver to the current version (whatever that is).

He also indicated that Denon's firmware update website has been down frequently over the past two weeks.

I'll keep you posted as to the results. Crossing my fingers the flash will be successful and that the network interface will once again work.
Crossing my fingers with you! I've also suspected the firmware being to blame. My receiver worked perfectly until the fateful day I saw the message for a new firmware. Since then the network hasn't worked.
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post #11167 of 11189 Old 04-30-2015, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by pndiku View Post
Crossing my fingers with you! I've also suspected the firmware being to blame. My receiver worked perfectly until the fateful day I saw the message for a new firmware. Since then the network hasn't worked.
The technician finished diagnosing my 3313ci and found the following:

- network interface not working (symptoms as I described earlier)
- usb port not working (this was news to me as I don't use the usb)
- he factory flashed the receiver via the serial port (older firmware version). It failed on step 6 of 7 (net/usb firmware module).
- he tried flashing newer versions and it also failed on step 6 of 7.
- diagnosis is the NIC/USB functionality hardware issue on the main HDMI mainboard. cost prohibitive to replace (roughly $500 - $600 parts and labor).

Now, strangely enough, I started tinkering with the receiver again once I got it home and observed the following behaviors:

- I blew compressed air through the front display board and the rear main circuit board (and their respective connections). I'm not sure if it was coincidence, but on at least two occassions I was able to get a DHCP address, the MAC address returned, and the firmware version was visible (basically, it started behaving normally). Unfortunately, if I power cycled the receiver, it would return to the same broken state).

- I also tried power-cylcing all switches, routers, and the cable modem which on one occasion seemed to coincide with the receiver again connecting to the network properly.

- While connected in the prior scenarios, the receiver was able to stream music, successfully check for firmware updates, etc. I had it streaming music for a couple hours before I manually power cycled and then lost network connection.

I don't know what to make of it all yet, but likely, there is a border-line failing component involved. :-( Looks like I'll have a crippled 3313ci for a while (can't justify going out and buying a new receiver).

I may try removing the mainboard, cleaning, and reseating connectors, etc. If I have any revelations while tinkering further, I'll post back.
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post #11168 of 11189 Old 04-30-2015, 07:49 PM
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DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT MAKING ANY RECOMMENDATIONS HERE. WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR EQUIPMENT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AND YOUR CONSEQUENCES.

I got my 3313ci to complete a successful firmware update by implementing a crude method. Since it appeared there may be a thermal component to the failures

- Powered off and unplugged the unit for 30 minutes
- Powered on the unit and waited until I got an IP address (confirmed in WireShark trace and through Denon setup screens).
- Played streaming radio for about 30 minutes, and also accessed the Web GUI during that time. No issues.
- Removed the cover of the unit and used a hair-dryer in "no heat" mode to blow air in/around the main HDMI board.
- Started a firmware update crossing my fingers and praying I wouldn't brick my receiver.
- The update actually passed Authentication this time and started updating Main, then Sub, then DSP, then GUI...
- The updated completed successfully after 37 minutes. I checked the firmware and its now on 1490-3179-0000-9500-1097
- Went into network settings and turned off DHCP. At this point the IP reverted to 192.168.0.1 in the setup screen.
- Exited setup and went back into network settings and darn it... only "Information" was available and so I was unable to change the network settings.
- Turned off the sophisticated cooling apparatus.
- Performed a network reset from the front panel
- Checked the menus and found it was again unwilling to obtain an IP address (checked WireShark also to confirm this).
- Deployed my sophisticated cooling apparatus once again.
- Sat in the setup screen continually monitor the network menu. After about two minutes of cooling, the network screen jumped to life with all menu options.
- Checked the network info and WireShark again. Sure enough, it got an IP address.
- Turned off the cooler
- Played streaming radio for about 15 minutes, and also accessed the Web GUI during that time. No issues.

That's about all I can report. I'm fairly certain that some component is failing once the unit warms up. However, the strange thing is once I get an IP address and I'm talking on the network, it doesn't seem to have a problem until I power cycle it (I have "Network Control" enabled) or if I attempt to change the network settings.

In the end, I'm not sure its in much better shape. I do have the updated firmware, and I do have a somewhat reliable method for bringing the network connection back to life, but what a PITA that is. If this info helps someone else, then it will be worth the efforts.

DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT MAKING ANY RECOMMENDATIONS HERE. WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR EQUIPMENT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AND YOUR CONSEQUENCES.

Last edited by BlueTip; 04-30-2015 at 07:52 PM.
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post #11169 of 11189 Old 05-01-2015, 07:02 AM
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I'm looking at new TVs and am thinking about a 4k model. I completely confused as to whether my 3313 will be able to 'really' send the 4k signal.

The 3313 is supposedly supports 4k, but I've read a few posts here that say it really doesn't.

Would I be wasting my money on a 4k TV if I run the signal through the 3313?
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post #11170 of 11189 Old 05-01-2015, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyH View Post
I'm looking at new TVs and am thinking about a 4k model. I completely confused as to whether my 3313 will be able to 'really' send the 4k signal.

The 3313 is supposedly supports 4k, but I've read a few posts here that say it really doesn't.

Would I be wasting my money on a 4k TV if I run the signal through the 3313?
The 3313CI is an HDMI 1.4 AVR capable of passing a 4k/24Hz/30Hz signal, however, starting in late 2015 or early 2016, there will be 4k/60Hz HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 sources that would require a 2015 model AVR to allow the 4k/60Hz signal to pass through the AVR. The work around with 2014 and earlier models would be to pass the 4k/60Hz signal directly to the TV with audio going to the AVR (eg. dual HDMI 2.0 Blu Ray plaers to be released later this fall).

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** Think the AVR is defective?  Reset the microprocessor 5 times. 

Last edited by jdsmoothie; 05-05-2015 at 04:15 AM.
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post #11171 of 11189 Old 05-01-2015, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueTip View Post
DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT MAKING ANY RECOMMENDATIONS HERE. WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR EQUIPMENT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AND YOUR CONSEQUENCES.

I got my 3313ci to complete a successful firmware update by implementing a crude method. Since it appeared there may be a thermal component to the failures

- Powered off and unplugged the unit for 30 minutes
- Powered on the unit and waited until I got an IP address (confirmed in WireShark trace and through Denon setup screens).
- Played streaming radio for about 30 minutes, and also accessed the Web GUI during that time. No issues.
- Removed the cover of the unit and used a hair-dryer in "no heat" mode to blow air in/around the main HDMI board.
- Started a firmware update crossing my fingers and praying I wouldn't brick my receiver.
- The update actually passed Authentication this time and started updating Main, then Sub, then DSP, then GUI...
- The updated completed successfully after 37 minutes. I checked the firmware and its now on 1490-3179-0000-9500-1097
- Went into network settings and turned off DHCP. At this point the IP reverted to 192.168.0.1 in the setup screen.
- Exited setup and went back into network settings and darn it... only "Information" was available and so I was unable to change the network settings.
- Turned off the sophisticated cooling apparatus.
- Performed a network reset from the front panel
- Checked the menus and found it was again unwilling to obtain an IP address (checked WireShark also to confirm this).
- Deployed my sophisticated cooling apparatus once again.
- Sat in the setup screen continually monitor the network menu. After about two minutes of cooling, the network screen jumped to life with all menu options.
- Checked the network info and WireShark again. Sure enough, it got an IP address.
- Turned off the cooler
- Played streaming radio for about 15 minutes, and also accessed the Web GUI during that time. No issues.

That's about all I can report. I'm fairly certain that some component is failing once the unit warms up. However, the strange thing is once I get an IP address and I'm talking on the network, it doesn't seem to have a problem until I power cycle it (I have "Network Control" enabled) or if I attempt to change the network settings.

In the end, I'm not sure its in much better shape. I do have the updated firmware, and I do have a somewhat reliable method for bringing the network connection back to life, but what a PITA that is. If this info helps someone else, then it will be worth the efforts.

DISCLAIMER: I AM NOT MAKING ANY RECOMMENDATIONS HERE. WHAT YOU DO WITH YOUR EQUIPMENT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY AND YOUR CONSEQUENCES.
A final bit of info on this issue...

I ran the 3313ci all night and this morning streaming music without issues. It seems to retain an IP and stay connected to the network without issues unless I power cycle the unit or I attempt to manually change the network settings. The only way to get network interface back in service is to either...

- Let the unit sit powered off to cool and then powering it back on, at which time it usually shows a MAC address and obtains an IP via DHCP.

- Apply direct ventilation to remove heat from the HDMI main board while the unit is running, at which point (within a minute or so) the network interface begins functioning (shows a MAC and obtains an IP via DHCP).

The issue is definitely influenced by heat build-up in the HDMI main board area.
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post #11172 of 11189 Old 05-04-2015, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The 3313CI is an HDMI 1.4 AVR capable of passing a 4k/24Hz/30Hz signal, however, starting in late 2015 or early 2016, there will be 4k/60Hz HDMI 2.0/HDCP 2.2 sources that would require a 2015 model AVR to allow the 4k/60Hz signal to pass through the AVR. The work around with 2014 and earlier models would be to pass the 4k/60Hz signal directly to the TV with audio going to the AVR (eg. dual HDMI 2.0 AVRs to be released later this fall).
Thanks.

I'll be OK. I'll just run my roku directly to the TV instead of to the a/v receiver and then optional output back to the a/v, BUT

Zones 2 & 3 on my AVR (Denon 3313) can't use the optical audio input and will only take RCA. My old Directv box had both optical and RCA outputs, so I ran both and could get audio in zone 2 (zone 3 doesn't matter).

Anyone know if there's a way to get non-optical audio out to my AVR? It looks like there's a 2nd audio out, but it looks like a headphone jack which I didn't think I could input to an AVR since it wouldn't be a pre-amp output? The 3313 has a 'digital coax in'. Will the 'audio out' on the TV output to it?


Last edited by GuyH; 05-05-2015 at 05:59 AM. Reason: pic link of the 3313 was taking up too much space on the thread
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post #11173 of 11189 Old 05-05-2015, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by GuyH View Post
Thanks.

I'll be OK. I'll just run my roku directly to the TV instead of to the a/v receiver and then optional output back to the a/v, BUT

Zones 2 & 3 on my AVR (Denon 3313) can't use the optical audio input and will only take RCA. My old Directv box had both optical and RCA outputs, so I ran both and could get audio in zone 2 (zone 3 doesn't matter).

Anyone know if there's a way to get non-optical audio out to my AVR? It looks like there's a 2nd audio out, but it looks like a headphone jack which I didn't think I could input to an AVR since it wouldn't be a pre-amp output? The 3313 has a 'digital coax in'. Will the 'audio out' on the TV output to it?
There are numerous 3rd party optical/digital coax --> analog and HDMI --> analog converters which can be purchased and used to pass analog audio to the AVR.

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post #11174 of 11189 Old 05-05-2015, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
There are numerous 3rd party optical/digital coax --> analog and HDMI --> analog converters which can be purchased and used to pass analog audio to the AVR.
Thanks, I thought it would be more complicated than that.
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post #11175 of 11189 Old 05-09-2015, 10:59 AM
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Cursing myself every 5 minutes about doing firmware update. Have had zeros issues with 3313ic receiver in past year. Did the firmware update and cannot connect to the internet.. I have read all the posts about resets etc. I have also called customer service etc ( waste of time really ) So the question i have : Is there no other fix to the internet connection fail that is out?
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post #11176 of 11189 Old 05-09-2015, 03:44 PM
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^^
The Denon servers have been down the past few weeks. Give it another week or two and try again.

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post #11177 of 11189 Old 05-10-2015, 07:27 PM
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Unhappy Denon AVR-1713 Has Decided to Intermittently Turn Off and On

I'm about 3 years in, and my 1713 has chosen to misbehave. It appears to be an HDMI issue, as the unit only power cycles with an HDMI input on. There have been no changes to the system in months, the last firmware upgrade was some time ago, so it shouldn't be speaker connection issues, or setup problems. The unit doesn't seem to ever get hot in operation.

Any suggestions? What should I replace it with if I were to go with a current Denon model? It seems Denon has abandoned Audyssey MultEQ XT in this range, so I'd have to give that up at least.

Thanks in advance.
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post #11178 of 11189 Old 05-11-2015, 04:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitaraficionado View Post
I'm about 3 years in, and my 1713 has chosen to misbehave. It appears to be an HDMI issue, as the unit only power cycles with an HDMI input on. There have been no changes to the system in months, the last firmware upgrade was some time ago, so it shouldn't be speaker connection issues, or setup problems. The unit doesn't seem to ever get hot in operation.

Any suggestions? What should I replace it with if I were to go with a current Denon model? It seems Denon has abandoned Audyssey MultEQ XT in this range, so I'd have to give that up at least.

Thanks in advance.
Before giving up on the 1713, try doing a series of microprocessor resets (see post ##5 of this thread) in a row. Otherwise, the models that have replaced the 1713 are the 2013 - X1000 and 2014 - X1100W, both of which have MultEQ XT and also a 3 year warranty vice only 2 on the 1713. If you purchased with a credit card, check with the card issuer as they may extend the warranty 1 year to make it 3 years, that is if you are still inside 3 years of the purchase date. Otherwise, if not, AVScience still has one X1100W available. If interested call for more information and pricing.

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post #11179 of 11189 Old 05-11-2015, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Before giving up on the 1713, try doing a series of microprocessor resets (see post ##5 of this thread) in a row. Otherwise, the models that have replaced the 1713 are the 2013 - X1000 and 2014 - X1100W, both of which have MultEQ XT and also a 3 year warranty vice only 2 on the 1713. If you purchased with a credit card, check with the card issuer as they may extend the warranty 1 year to make it 3 years, that is if you are still inside 3 years of the purchase date. Otherwise, if not, AVScience still has one X1100W available. If interested call for more information and pricing.
I haven't seen the power cycling behavior since the night we had a pretty bad storm here with some flickering lights. I postulate that perhaps the Denon AVR is sensitive to power fluctuations.

The Amazon reviews of the X1100W suggest reliability problems, more than I've seen for other Denon's on the site. Hard to know if that's statistically significant.

Thanks for the response.
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post #11180 of 11189 Old 05-11-2015, 05:09 PM
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I haven't seen the power cycling behavior since the night we had a pretty bad storm here with some flickering lights. I postulate that perhaps the Denon AVR is sensitive to power fluctuations.

The Amazon reviews of the X1100W suggest reliability problems, more than I've seen for other Denon's on the site. Hard to know if that's statistically significant.

Thanks for the response.
Majority of those reviews were prior to the latest firmware update April 9 to resolve the Airplay/Bluetooth issues.

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post #11181 of 11189 Old 05-15-2015, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Majority of those reviews were prior to the latest firmware update April 9 to resolve the Airplay/Bluetooth issues.
Many of the negative reviews are hardware related, unfortunately, e.g. inoperable displays.
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post #11182 of 11189 Old 05-15-2015, 11:37 AM
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Wow, really sorry to hear about all the troubles you guys are having with these newer Denons. I was thinking about upgrading my 2310ci, but since it's been a workhorse with absolute zero problems for the past 4 years I think I'll skip it for now.
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post #11183 of 11189 Old Yesterday, 08:12 PM
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HMDI handshake madness!!

I've got a 2313 that I bought refurb from A4L a few years back and the HMDI handshake "dropout" issue was just an occasional thing, but now it is getting worse....and it's driving me crazy!

Source is DirecTV HR24.
TV is a Panasonic tc-p50g20


I've done the reverse handshake "resets", changed cables, firmware updates, etc and it is still "dropping" out both on pass through and when on!

It's intermittent and nothing in particular seems to help it or make it worse...completely random.

90% of the time it "drops out" for a blink every 5 to 10min.
Lately that has turned into ever 2 or 3 min.

And occasionally it will not come back from the blink...either stays black or displays "snow".

The only thing making me think it can be fixed is this does not happen with my kids XboxONE...which may point at the DirecTV box

That said, I'm ready to throw it out the window!!!

It seems silly to throw $$$ out the window and buy another...

Am I missing something? Can it be fixed?

Thanks for any insights,
M.J.
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post #11184 of 11189 Old Today, 12:51 AM
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^^
Cable/sat boxes often have HDMI handshake issues with AVRs, in some cases an update to the box introduces the handshake when one did not exist previously. The work around is to connect box (HDMI) to the TV with box (optical) to the AVR.

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post #11185 of 11189 Old Today, 07:23 AM
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Thanks for the feedback.

If I do that....

1) Will sound still pass through the HDMI to the TV?
1a) If so, would the TV know when the AVR is on or would I then have 2 volumes I would need to control (TV & AVR)?
2) Will I then have 2 source inputs to manage?
Today I have TV, AppleTV, Xbox, & WiiU "source controlled" by the AVR.
It sounds like this approach would require me to control TV vs everything else on the TV, and everything else on the AVR...
Thanks again for the help,
M.J.

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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
Cable/sat boxes often have HDMI handshake issues with AVRs, in some cases an update to the box introduces the handshake when one did not exist previously. The work around is to connect box (HDMI) to the TV with box (optical) to the AVR.
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post #11186 of 11189 Old Today, 07:32 AM
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^^
1. Yes. The HDMI cable is connected from the cable box to the TV so both audio and video can pass to the TV without the AVR being on at all. When you want to use the surround speakers, simply power on the AVR and select the TV Audio source on the AVR remote.

2. Yes. One source input from the cable box and one from the AVR.

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post #11187 of 11189 Old Today, 07:53 AM
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I think I'm hearing there will then have to be 2 remotes always in use...

When big sound is desired, we would then use 1 remote for TV station selection and DVR controls (fastforward, etc)....and another remote for AVR volume?

If this is the case, I'm not sure I want to settle for that...sigh.

Are there any options to make it work with just the DirecTV remote?

Do you know if this has anything to do with Denon? If I switched AVR brands would I have a chance of it all working as advertised???

Thanks again for your help,
M.J.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
1. Yes. The HDMI cable is connected from the cable box to the TV so both audio and video can pass to the TV without the AVR being on at all. When you want to use the surround speakers, simply power on the AVR and select the TV Audio source on the AVR remote.

2. Yes. One source input from the cable box and one from the AVR.
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post #11188 of 11189 Old Today, 08:10 AM
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^^
Cable/sat boxes can have problems with all brands of AVRs. You may or may not have issues with another brand. It just depends on the devices in the mix (TV, AVR, cable/sat box). You may find using a Harmony remote more efficient as it would likely be able to control all of your devices (TV, AVR, sources) with just that one remote.

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post #11189 of 11189 Old Today, 08:37 AM
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Best case would be to use a Harmony remote. You could actually setup 2 activities. One called BIG SOUND and use that when you want full volume thru all speakers and one called TV SOUND that would then use the TV speakers only. The Harmony can be fully tweaked easily to do this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ultimatemj View Post
I think I'm hearing there will then have to be 2 remotes always in use...

When big sound is desired, we would then use 1 remote for TV station selection and DVR controls (fastforward, etc)....and another remote for AVR volume?

If this is the case, I'm not sure I want to settle for that...sigh.

Are there any options to make it work with just the DirecTV remote?

Do you know if this has anything to do with Denon? If I switched AVR brands would I have a chance of it all working as advertised???

Thanks again for your help,
M.J.
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