The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 387 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11581 of 11604 Old 06-25-2017, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Ruhnie View Post
I'm at my wits end, hoping someone can help me out. I have a 2113CI and it's worked great for the most part, but I always had an issue with Netflix's DD+ sounding weird. I just assumed it was Netflix but finally researched it and found it might be the firmware on the receiver. Problem is, I can't get it to connect to my network. I've done everything I can to troubleshoot, change network cables, routers, etc. Finally just did a network reset, and after getting through the Audyssey setup again...I still can't connect to the network. Also, when I go to the firmware menu, the option to update is greyed out, and when I go to the version menu it doesn't show anything (can't select the version option). Anyone have any ideas other than taking it to a repair shop? Really, really appreciate any tips or help on this. Thank you!
Try doing a series of at least 4-5 Network resets. If still no joy, apparently the network card has been damaged (possibly due to a storm) and will require repair/replacement.
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post #11582 of 11604 Old 06-26-2017, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Try doing a series of at least 4-5 Network resets. If still no joy, apparently the network card has been damaged (possibly due to a storm) and will require repair/replacement.
Whoa, really? Have people had success doing the reset multiple times? It's a catch 22 for me though, since the networking isn't functional I cannot pull the config from the unit. So going through Audessey setup again will suck but I guess it's worth it if I can get it working. Thanks!
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post #11583 of 11604 Old 06-26-2017, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Ruhnie View Post
Whoa, really? Have people had success doing the reset multiple times? It's a catch 22 for me though, since the networking isn't functional I cannot pull the config from the unit. So going through Audessey setup again will suck but I guess it's worth it if I can get it working. Thanks!
It's unlikely to resolve your issue, but might as well give it a shot before resorting to repair or purchasing a more current model.
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post #11584 of 11604 Old 06-26-2017, 04:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruhnie View Post
Whoa, really? Have people had success doing the reset multiple times? It's a catch 22 for me though, since the networking isn't functional I cannot pull the config from the unit. So going through Audessey setup again will suck but I guess it's worth it if I can get it working. Thanks!
I don't think doing a network reset will remove your settings. There is a factory reset which will do this.
As JD mentioned, I would just do multiple network resets and if that doesn't work, I would try multiple factory resets before looking into repair/replacement.

Good luck.
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post #11585 of 11604 Old 06-26-2017, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by MarkEHansen View Post
I don't think doing a network reset will remove your settings. There is a factory reset which will do this.
As JD mentioned, I would just do multiple network resets and if that doesn't work, I would try multiple factory resets before looking into repair/replacement.

Good luck.
Both resets will do this. As noted in post 5 of this thread a "Network reset" also results in a microprocessor/factory reset as well.
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post #11586 of 11604 Old 06-26-2017, 10:51 AM
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Thanks, JD - I didn't realize that.
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post #11587 of 11604 Old 07-09-2017, 03:21 PM
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I'm in exactly the same boat as Mark above me. I have tried resetting everything, recabling everything from the router to my gig-E switch, microprocessor reset, network reset, soft reset, and no matter what I do, I am not even getting link light from my 1913. Does that mean the NIC is dead? Is it possible to replace the board? I bought it in January of 2013, so it's out of warranty at this point. If not, what would be a good successor to this model? The E400 just seemed to be not too much of an improvement. I'm mostly concerned with having as many HDMI connections as possible (Wii U, PS4, STB, RPi, Xbox 360... yea I'm a gamer lol).
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post #11588 of 11604 Old 07-09-2017, 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted by DJLittleMike View Post
I'm in exactly the same boat as Mark above me. I have tried resetting everything, recabling everything from the router to my gig-E switch, microprocessor reset, network reset, soft reset, and no matter what I do, I am not even getting link light from my 1913. Does that mean the NIC is dead? Is it possible to replace the board? I bought it in January of 2013, so it's out of warranty at this point. If not, what would be a good successor to this model? The E400 just seemed to be not too much of an improvement. I'm mostly concerned with having as many HDMI connections as possible (Wii U, PS4, STB, RPi, Xbox 360... yea I'm a gamer lol).
Have you tried a direct connect to the router (ie. bypassing the gig-E switch)? Which model is a good successor depends on what additional features you want as well as whether you want to upgrade to a better version of Audyssey. The S920W is the 2016 model successor to your 1913 and the lowest model with 8 HDMI inputs (max available on any Denon model) and is currently on clearance as the newer S930H has already been released. The next upgrade would be the 2016 X2300W which would have similar features but also upgrades to the next better version of Audyssey MultEQ XT and comes with a 3 year warranty as an "X" series model.
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post #11589 of 11604 Old 07-09-2017, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Have you tried a direct connect to the router (ie. bypassing the gig-E switch)? Which model is a good successor depends on what additional features you want as well as whether you want to upgrade to a better version of Audyssey. The S920W is the 2016 model successor to your 1913 and the lowest model with 8 HDMI inputs (max available on any Denon model) and is currently on clearance as the newer S930H has already been released. The next upgrade would be the 2016 X2300W which would have similar features but also upgrades to the next better version of Audyssey MultEQ XT and comes with a 3 year warranty as an "X" series model.
Yea, I tried going directly into the router as well. I had the Verizon tech out here today for a separate low upload bandwidth issue and he even looked and couldn't figure it out. :\

Hmm, all three seem to be good choices. No fixing my 1913, I take it? That's a shame. It still "works" right now. I just have no internet. Generally I haven't really taken advantage of the streaming services, so it's not the end of the world. I just hate having a "broken" AVR, if that makes sense. I guess I can stick with what I have for now until I have the budget for one of the above. Thanks for the suggestions!
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post #11590 of 11604 Old 07-09-2017, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by DJLittleMike View Post
Yea, I tried going directly into the router as well. I had the Verizon tech out here today for a separate low upload bandwidth issue and he even looked and couldn't figure it out. :\

Hmm, all three seem to be good choices. No fixing my 1913, I take it? That's a shame. It still "works" right now. I just have no internet. Generally I haven't really taken advantage of the streaming services, so it's not the end of the world. I just hate having a "broken" AVR, if that makes sense. I guess I can stick with what I have for now until I have the budget for one of the above. Thanks for the suggestions!
You would still be able to use the 1913 as a Zone 2 amp ("X" series only have Zone 2 pre-outs) or to add 2 more speakers (eg. Denon X4300H and Marantz SR6011 are the lowest 2016 D+M models with expansion capability by adding an external 2CH amp, ie. expanding from 9CH --> 11CH in the main zone for Atmos 7.2.4).
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post #11591 of 11604 Old 07-09-2017, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
You would still be able to use the 1913 as a Zone 2 amp ("X" series only have Zone 2 pre-outs) or to add 2 more speakers (eg. Denon X4300H and Marantz SR6011 are the lowest 2016 D+M models with expansion capability by adding an external 2CH amp, ie. expanding from 9CH --> 11CH in the main zone for Atmos 7.2.4).
Honestly, I've been very lazy with my setup and I'm ashamed to admit, right now it's only hooked up 5.0 (sub is still sitting in the box) so I'm not even sure it would be worth it. I guess I could just use this till it dies or upgrade to one of the above that you suggested. I tried updating the firmware via USB to see if that would fix anything and got that stupid "busy, try again later" message. I did 5 network resets in a row like suggested as well. I think something might be screwy with it, but everything else seems to work on it. It's tough because I want it fixed even though I'm not using it to capacity. Ugh. Thanks again for the suggestions, though. All good ideas.
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post #11592 of 11604 Old 07-09-2017, 07:01 PM
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CBL/SAT for video with ARC for audio?

I had ARC working wonderfully for a few months... then a DVR update from DirectTV broke things...

what was happening:
a) use DVR remote to turn on TV and DVR... video from DVR flashes up... but no sound... then
b) 4-10 seconds later the AVR (Denon AVR 2113) would power on
c) Video from DVR, sounds from TV

this had the nice perk that when the TV mastered the video (ie. smart TV with Amazon Prime video), no need to change inputs on the AVR.. sound was already coming from the TV. Not changing inputs scores how on the WAF.

And then ~2 weeks ago a firmware update for the DVR.. now what I get is

a) same as above
b) same (ish) as above
c) no video.... the Denon seems to be thinking the "TV audio" is the video source and switches to that null source .. I have to press "CBL/SAT" to get the video. I don't believe one is able to configure a video source for "TV audio".

The only way for me to avoid this switch to the blank screen is to disable "TV audio" as a source on the Denon.

fishing for ideas.
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post #11593 of 11604 Old 07-10-2017, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zim2dive View Post
I had ARC working wonderfully for a few months... then a DVR update from DirectTV broke things...

what was happening:
a) use DVR remote to turn on TV and DVR... video from DVR flashes up... but no sound... then
b) 4-10 seconds later the AVR (Denon AVR 2113) would power on
c) Video from DVR, sounds from TV

this had the nice perk that when the TV mastered the video (ie. smart TV with Amazon Prime video), no need to change inputs on the AVR.. sound was already coming from the TV. Not changing inputs scores how on the WAF.

And then ~2 weeks ago a firmware update for the DVR.. now what I get is

a) same as above
b) same (ish) as above
c) no video.... the Denon seems to be thinking the "TV audio" is the video source and switches to that null source .. I have to press "CBL/SAT" to get the video. I don't believe one is able to configure a video source for "TV audio".

The only way for me to avoid this switch to the blank screen is to disable "TV audio" as a source on the Denon.

fishing for ideas.
<TV Audio> is the audio source on the AVR which is used for receiving the HDMI(ARC) audio from the TV when using the TV's smart apps. When HDMI-CEC is enabled on the TV and the AVR, the AVR will switch to <TV Audio> shortly after being powered on. As this is not your use case, simply disable HDMI-CEC on the TV or the AVR.
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post #11594 of 11604 Old 07-11-2017, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
<TV Audio> is the audio source on the AVR which is used for receiving the HDMI(ARC) audio from the TV when using the TV's smart apps. When HDMI-CEC is enabled on the TV and the AVR, the AVR will switch to <TV Audio> shortly after being powered on. As this is not your use case, simply disable HDMI-CEC on the TV or the AVR.
I want ARC for audio as that allowed me to avoid using the AVR remote, and only use the TV remote to switch between

a)TV-HDMI (from the AVR)
b)content sourced from the (smart)TV itself (ie. Amazon Prime, etc).

So I could be watching content from the DVR.. and then via the TV remote, switch to Amazon Prime, and the audio would seamlessly switch over. If "TV audio" is "hidden" then I see Prime Video but hear DVR audio. (ie. "TV audio" appears to be required unhidden for ARC)

But, I can only (auto) switch one direction now... from DVR->TV content (when I start from DVR, and start playing Prime video, the audio switches right over)... but when I stop the TV-content, the AVR stays stuck on "TV audio" as the source, and b/c I have the video passing thru the AVR to the TV, I no longer see any video on the TV unless I manually press CBL/SAT on the AVR remote to "fix" the video source.

I'm beginning to think it wasn't the DVR firmware update, as I'm having a hard time thinking of how it would break the transition back from smartTV content to DVR content.

But I'm at a loss to think what else changed.

I guess the other way to say it, is that when "TV audio" is the source, the AVR is not passing any video to the TV? why would that ever make sense??? ie. ARC is over HDMI.. do they expect to have an HDMI cable in place which ISN'T carrying video in the opposite direction of the returned audio?? It is obvious the DVR content is being sent to the TV, as the audio is being played back via ARC.. but the TV shows no video.
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post #11595 of 11604 Old 07-12-2017, 02:17 AM
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Originally Posted by zim2dive View Post
I guess the other way to say it, is that when "TV audio" is the source, the AVR is not passing any video to the TV? why would that ever make sense??? ie. ARC is over HDMI.. do they expect to have an HDMI cable in place which ISN'T carrying video in the opposite direction of the returned audio?? It is obvious the DVR content is being sent to the TV, as the audio is being played back via ARC.. but the TV shows no video.
Correct. ARC stands for "Audio Return Channel" and has nothing to do with video as the video source is displayed on the TV already from one of the TV's smart apps or when the source is connected directly to the TV.
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post #11596 of 11604 Old 07-12-2017, 04:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Correct. ARC stands for "Audio Return Channel" and has nothing to do with video as the video source is displayed on the TV already from one of the TV's smart apps or when the source is connected directly to the TV.
(might be a double-post, connection just dropped)...

I think you are missing that is not my setup and that this WAS working... my setup is...

DVR HMDI out -> AVR CBL/SAT HMDI in
AVR Monitor out -> TV HDM1 (marked as having ARC)

with this set of connections all was good until 2 weeks ago...

- a single press of the power-on (DVR remote) would power on the TV + DVR, and then ~5 seconds later the AVR (off worked as well)
- audio automatically followed the source (ie. DVR vs. TV-sourced material)

I'm confused by the suggestion that I would use ARC any other way? Are you suggesting

DVR -> TV (non ARC HDMI input?)
TV (HDMI with ARC) -> AVR (monitor out?), with AVR left parked on TV audio ?

ie. in that case the HDMI cable is little more than a replacement for an optical audio output from the TV? (possibly capable of sending more than would be permitted over optical?)

thanks
Mike

EDIT: I can see from online articles that the 2nd connection config is common.. but again I did have the 1st config working...

Last edited by zim2dive; 07-12-2017 at 04:54 AM.
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post #11597 of 11604 Old 07-12-2017, 05:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zim2dive View Post
(might be a double-post, connection just dropped)...

I think you are missing that is not my setup and that this WAS working... my setup is...

DVR HMDI out -> AVR CBL/SAT HMDI in
AVR Monitor out -> TV HDM1 (marked as having ARC)

with this set of connections all was good until 2 weeks ago...

- a single press of the power-on (DVR remote) would power on the TV + DVR, and then ~5 seconds later the AVR (off worked as well)
- audio automatically followed the source (ie. DVR vs. TV-sourced material)

I'm confused by the suggestion that I would use ARC any other way? Are you suggesting

DVR -> TV (non ARC HDMI input?)
TV (HDMI with ARC) -> AVR (monitor out?), with AVR left parked on TV audio ?

ie. in that case the HDMI cable is little more than a replacement for an optical audio output from the TV? (possibly capable of sending more than would be permitted over optical?)

thanks
Mike

EDIT: I can see from online articles that the 2nd connection config is common.. but again I did have the 1st config working...

You are apparently confusing ARC with HDMI-CEC which are two different features.

ARC (Audio Return Channel) - Used to pass the audio from the TV's smart apps (Netflix, Hulu, Vudu, YouTube, etc.) back to the AVR

HDMI-CEC - used to power on/off HDMI devices in the same chain as well as possibly control them with another device's remote

As to why the HDMI-CEC feature is no longer working as desired, more than likely due to a firmware update to the DVR (which is quite common).

Last edited by jdsmoothie; 07-12-2017 at 05:23 AM.
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post #11598 of 11604 Old 07-12-2017, 05:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
You are apparently confusing ARC with HDMI-CEC which are two different features.

ARC (Audio Return Channel) - Used to pass the audio from the TV's smart apps (Netflix, Hulu, Vudu, YouTube, etc.) back to the AVR

HDMI-CEC - used to power on/off HDMI devices in the same chain as well as possibly control them with another device's remote

As to why the HDMI-CEC feature is no longer working as desired, more than likely due to a firmware update to the DVR (which is quite common).
What mechanism is controlling the audio switch when I am watching Prime Video on the TV, and on the TV I switch back to watching HDMI-1 ? (I'm not seeing why the DVR would be involved in that)

Is the TV sending HDMI-CEC commands to the AVR when I start/stop Prime Video, telling the AVR to switch to (and then away from) "TV audio" ? (ie. is there any control portion to ARC, or is that switching HDMI-CEC?)
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post #11599 of 11604 Old 07-12-2017, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zim2dive View Post
What mechanism is controlling the audio switch when I am watching Prime Video on the TV, and on the TV I switch back to watching HDMI-1 ? (I'm not seeing why the DVR would be involved in that)

Is the TV sending HDMI-CEC commands to the AVR when I start/stop Prime Video, telling the AVR to switch to (and then away from) "TV audio" ? (ie. is there any control portion to ARC, or is that switching HDMI-CEC?)
HDMI-CEC is controlling the switch while ARC is the method used to pass the TV's audio back to the AVR. In the 2015 and newer models, these two features now have dedicated settings such that you can use HDMI-CEC separate from ARC.
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post #11600 of 11604 Old 07-12-2017, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
HDMI-CEC is controlling the switch while ARC is the method used to pass the TV's audio back to the AVR. In the 2015 and newer models, these two features now have dedicated settings such that you can use HDMI-CEC separate from ARC.
On the older Denons there was a setting to pick between sending HDMI audio out over the cable vs. sending locally to the AVR (I don't see that setting any more on the AVR2113)

Let me ask this... reading about ARC, one use model is the idea that you can do all of this over a single HDMI cable (fewer wires).... so that use case is what I had

DVR HDMI OUT -> AVR CBL/SAT in -> AVR Monitor out /ARC -> TV HMDI-1/ARC

when watching the DVR... does audio travel all the way to the TV and back? (ie. always using ARC?).. and if not, why not?

On the flip side, if I can't "fix" this with a single cable, and I run a 2nd HDMI cable up such that I have

DVR -> TV (HDMI-2)
TV HMDI-1/ARC -> AVR

I guess the TV will always send ARC audio?
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post #11601 of 11604 Old 07-12-2017, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zim2dive View Post
On the older Denons there was a setting to pick between sending HDMI audio out over the cable vs. sending locally to the AVR (I don't see that setting any more on the AVR2113)

Let me ask this... reading about ARC, one use model is the idea that you can do all of this over a single HDMI cable (fewer wires).... so that use case is what I had

DVR HDMI OUT -> AVR CBL/SAT in -> AVR Monitor out /ARC -> TV HMDI-1/ARC

when watching the DVR... does audio travel all the way to the TV and back? (ie. always using ARC?).. and if not, why not?

On the flip side, if I can't "fix" this with a single cable, and I run a 2nd HDMI cable up such that I have

DVR -> TV (HDMI-2)
TV HMDI-1/ARC -> AVR

I guess the TV will always send ARC audio?

1. The setting is called <HDMI Audio Out> (p. 106 Owner's manual) and factory defaults to "AVR" but can be changed to "TV" when wanting to use the TV's speakers.
2. Again ... you're not understanding what ARC (Audio Return Channel) is which ONLY applies to the audio from the TV's smart apps or sources connected directly to the TV passing back to the AVR. With the <HDMI Audio Out> set to AVR, audio from HDMI sources connected to the TV only goes to the AVR.
3. If you connect the DVR directly to the TV, the TV is likely to only be able to send 2CH stereo audio via ARC back to the AVR where as connecting it to the AVR you'll get DD 5.1 from HD shows and movies.
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post #11602 of 11604 Old 07-21-2017, 07:29 PM
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Damage to walls imminent - Denon 3313

OK, I'm about to start throwing things through walls, windows, and other breakable items. I just moved (downsizing). Tonight, I spent some quality time wiring up the pieces of my HT that fit in the new place - up until now, I had been suffering along with only TV speakers (the horror!)

So, get L/C/R wired, run HDMI cables from cable box to Denon, then to TV - exactly (and I mean exactly to the same f'ing cables used in the old house...) as it was wired in my old house.

The result - sound but no picture. Switched HDMI inputs to the receiver. Nothing. Switched HDMI inputs on the TV. Nothing. Swapped cables. Nothing. Unplug everything. Nope. Scream profanities at the ceiling. No change. Contemplate retrieving the BFH (Big F...... Hammer) out of my toolbox to "encourage" the equipment - still an option.

At the end of the day, I get audio but no video on the TV. And this is exactly the same set-up I had in my old living room with no issues at all. I'm at a loss here...
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post #11603 of 11604 Old 07-21-2017, 07:42 PM
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Couple of things... you may need to do a micro-processor reset...couple of times.

A work around could be to run hdmi from cable box to the TV.
Then run either a coax cable or optical (toslink) from TV into AVR.
Also some cable boxes have optical or coax outputs in addition to hdmi.
You may have to re-configure the inputs on the AVR.

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post #11604 of 11604 Old 07-22-2017, 03:17 AM
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Could be a possible HDMI handshake issue with the TV which can sometimes be mitigated by first powering on the TV, pause 5 seconds, AVR, pause 5 seconds, source device.

Note however, that model specific questions are best served posted in their respective Owner's threads ....

The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ
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