The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post


i'd settle for a db9 port, personally...

hey, where'd you hide the 8-track player when i was over the other day???

It was hiding behind the headphone rig. Though that visit had already been expensive enough:-)

Db9 port? Longing to figure out serial port configs again? 300 baud 8 bit no parity- gotta get those serial printers and acoustic couplers fired back up:-)

Actually, it's in the basement with a whole bunch of stuff that was great in its day but has been replaced with superior technology. Right between the cassette deck and the Vic-20...
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post #152 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 10:46 AM
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^^^

yes, unfortunately, i did not escape unscathed, as swmbo now wants a big green egg...

lol... yea... don't you miss those days? actually, given that some stuff actually still requires serial communications, it would be a nice feature to have, but i realize i'm in a pretty small minority there...

- chris

 

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post #153 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 11:28 AM
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I have been waiting for the new high end Denon's and we finally have details. Unfortunately, I am not sure what to get now. I was looking at the 3313 but now I am not sure if I should go with the Onkyo 818 for the MultEQ XT 32. I will be buying a second receiver that doesn't need good calibration but it needs to be the same brand for App control. Any thoughts?
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post #154 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 11:32 AM
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^^^

others may feel differently, but imo, xt32 without sub eq is only half a loaf, at best... not to mention the fact that the 818 is an onkyo... i wouldn't recommend/touch an onkyo, as they have consistently had q/c issues for several years now... that doesn't mean that you won't get a good one, or that others may feel differently about onkyo than i...

personally, i believe the 4311 is still the "best" choice of the bunch...

as far as the second one goes... why does it have to be the same brand? all of the networked avr's from all cem's seem to have an app these days...

edit: fwiw... in "today's world", the "high end" denon is the 4xxx series, not the 3xxx series... it was the 5xxx series, but that is now dead...

- chris

 

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post #155 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

yes, unfortunately, i did not escape unscathed, as swmbo now wants a big green egg...

lol... yea... don't you miss those days? actually, given that some stuff actually still requires serial communications, it would be a nice feature to have, but i realize i'm in a pretty small minority there...

Oops. Forgot about the Egg, though you didn't seem entirely opposed to the idea..

Yea, I miss the days when being a tech involved serial port config. Back when real men knew how to install an actual memory chip with legs

We're old
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post #156 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

others may feel differently, but imo, xt32 without sub eq is only half a loaf, at best... not to mention the fact that the 818 is an onkyo... i wouldn't recommend/touch an onkyo, as they have consistently had q/c issues for several years now... that doesn't mean that you won't get a good one, or that others may feel differently about onkyo than i...

personally, i believe the 4311 is still the "best" choice of the bunch...

+1

I was pretty bummed when I found out the 818 didn't have SubEQ HT. I have waited too long for XT32 to get an incomplete version. If I'm going to spend that much I would go for the complete package. I could get over the fact that its an Onkyo ( I have an authorized repair shop less than 2 blocks from me) but I can't get passed the missing feature.
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post #157 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 01:18 PM
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So is there a 4313 coming or not? I see talk about it but then there are others saying that the only 4XXX series coming is the 4520. What is it?

Upgraditis Anonymous
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post #158 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
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seriously? how many times does it have to be noted that the 43xx/48xx replacement will be the 4520ci? This has been discussed ad nauseum in the 2013 Denon speculation thread (which I know you have been reading and posting in ).

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post #159 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

right, because your 2310ci has MultEQ XT, networking, Airplay, smartphone control, etc? When your 2310ci was current you had to go to the $1399msrp 3310ci to get (bad) networking, and all the way to the $1999msrp 4310ci to get MultEQ XT. Now both of these features are all the way down to sub $400 units.

I can understand the MultiEQ XT and Networking part because I have that on my TV and media player, but again Denon already had these on most of their older models which I chose not to go with, but Airplay & Smartphone?? What's next for next year's '14' model, a Facebook icon??? Give me a frickin' break. This is a Home Theater receiver, are we out of touch for that bag of popcorn and turning off the lights for a couple of hours? I also use a phone which has internet access but I leave it at that, same goes for my computers.


Quote:


more things have been added than taken away. Things that the majority of users actually CARE about. And the "features" you think have gone missing are inconsequential to the vast majority. Most of what you are complaining about -- S-video inputs, phono inputs, little speaker icons -- are irrelevant in the current marketplace.

Not true batpig, now you're starting to sound more and more like someone in office. The vast majority still exists, and Denon took more than they've added. If you think a device such as the Denon brand should strip itself clean, give up and coincide with Apple products, that's not gonna add anything for serious audio/video users. This is gearing more towards the average Joe or Jane that walks into a local Best Buy and heads straight to the direction of where the iPads are.


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why is it that EVERY YEAR there has to be a cadre of "it ain't like the good ol' days" posters? Who can't see past their own usage-needs and realize that time has moved on... And the ridiculous overwrought exaggeration! oy vey! Really? "Insanely laughable" is it? Because of the poor LASER DISC users? there is not a "rolleyes" emoticon big enough.

are mfgr's cutting small corners (like omitting the speaker icons or AM radio or S-video) when updating products? of course. But they are doing it to maintain price point while adding in new features that people actually WANT. How many times does this need to be re-hashed?

They already did this by moving their assembly line to China, how much more should they strip off to maintain price point?? Sure, manufacturers redesigned and/or omit items on their products all the time but not to an extent like what Denon did every year. A lot of folks chose not to upgrade their expensive A/V equipment for many, many reasons in exchange to supposedly 'move on' to the new-age gadgets of the century. This does not mean that guys like us are still living in the stone age. A lot of us are using the latest smartphones such as androids, iPhones, iPods, networking devices, and i7 computers (sorry no Apple for me) but this doesn't mean that we have to mix it in the bag with our home theater receivers.
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post #160 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

this is the part that really gets me:



when someone is directly juxtaposing the removal of S-video inputs for the LD player with the addition of dual HDMI outputs and framing it as a net NEGATIVE.... that is a person who is totally out of touch with the marketplace.

I have Dual-HDMI Out on my DB player, and HDMI ports are easy to get -- cheaper by the dozen...but I want my MTV...eerrr I mean AM radio!
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post #161 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

These are the same people who think computer manufacturers should still be putting 5.25" floppy drives and parallel ports in computers...

Technology moves on. Nothing new in the world of electronics.

That said, if Denon doesn't put a bespoke connection and input menu choice for 8 tracks, I'm going to hold my breath and stomp my feet. How can they continually ignore all three of us who want this feature:-) (had to use the smiley - no rolls eyes emoticon yet in the iPad app).

What's wrong, I love my 5.25" floppy. You should check out my 8-track machine. I hooked it up with a digital coaxial adapter and that thing sounded as sweet as the day I wore a flower around my hat when heading to San Francisco.
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post #162 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 02:31 PM
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Batpig, thank you for the great 3312 vs. 3313 comparison a few pages back. I was waiting for the 3313 info to be released, and like some others I was left a bit underwhelmed by the changes (XT32 would have changed that but it is what it is). However the information that you presented was terrific - clear and concise. I specifically value the gains/loses sections.

From what I've read I'm not the only one considering going the 4311 route instead. Given that the (street) price difference between the new 3313 and the 4311 is not a big deal to me, I was wondering if you could do a similar comparison between the 3313 and 4311?

I would like to understand just how different these products are. I know the 4311 has some great features that the 3313 does not. One curiosity is whether the 4311 misses anything new/important being two model years behind. For instance, can it at least pass thru 4K video if that ever becomes necessary?

Thanks for all of your efforts - your Denon-to-English guide was a lifesaver with my 2809 purchase years ago!
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post #163 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 80sGuy View Post

What's wrong, I love my 5.25" floppy. You should check out my 8-track machine. I hooked it up with a digital coaxial adapter and that thing sounded as sweet as the day I wore a flower around my hat when heading to San Francisco.

LOL

Though if you're really an 80's guy, shouldn't you be using a cassette Walkman and/or boombox
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post #164 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by 80sGuy View Post

This is gearing more towards the average Joe or Jane that walks into a local Best Buy and heads straight to the direction of where the iPads are.

That's where the money is. I have seen a lot of people use the iPhone/Android app to control their receiver, especially for 2nd zone use. You don't have to buy an RF extender and it works great to just use your phone. This feature is important to the market obviously or every brand wouldn't be adding it to their receiver. I have no idea about AM radio as I never use it. Luckly the Razorback games come on FM radio if they are not on TV so it wouldn't bother me that they dropped it. As far as adding MultEQ XT I think that is a big deal and I would for sure give up an HDMI for it. When I went from MultEQ to MultEQ XT in my system it was a small jump but definitely noticeable to me. Dialog had better focus and was coming more from the screen than from the actual speaker.
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post #165 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 80sGuy View Post

Not true batpig, now you're starting to sound more and more like someone in office. The vast majority still exists, and Denon took more than they've added. If you think a device such as the Denon brand should strip itself clean, give up and coincide with Apple products, that's not gonna add anything for serious audio/video users. This is gearing more towards the average Joe or Jane that walks into a local Best Buy and heads straight to the direction of where the iPads.

yes... it is... take a guess why...

fwiw... realistically, the 2xxx series aren't geared towards the "serious audio/video" users (whatever those might be)... it's a commodity product designed to appeal to the mass market (and looking at it, it essentially does what it needs to do for those people)... and whether some want to admit it or not, the "doo dads" that are showing up is what the mass market wants...

don't believe me? read avs fora for awhile.... for every question asked about laserdisc/am radio/tape loops/etc., there's a thousand asking about airplay and/or other streaming methodologies....

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #166 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

That's where the money is. I have seen a lot of people use the iPhone/Android app to control their receiver, especially for 2nd zone use. You don't have to buy an RF extender and it works great to just use your phone. This feature is important to the market obviously or every brand wouldn't be adding it to their receiver. I have no idea about AM radio as I never use it. Luckly the Razorback games come on FM radio if they are not on TV so it wouldn't bother me that they dropped it. As far as adding MultEQ XT I think that is a big deal and I would for sure give up an HDMI for it. When I went from MultEQ to MultEQ XT in my system it was a small jump but definitely noticeable to me. Dialog had better focus and was coming more from the screen than from the actual speaker.

you might wish you couldn't get them this year...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #167 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 03:10 PM - Thread Starter
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@ palooz:

If you can afford the 4311 at current (sub $1300) street pricing, then I think it's a no brainer. Even if you won't go beyond 7.1 channels, the XT32 calibration and upgraded amp section is a big difference maker (although the latter is likely less important).

The only thing the 3313 can do that the 4311 can't is the video stuff: the 4k scaling, the ability to overlay volume / GUI graphics on top of 3D video, and potentially 4k pass through. Plus of course the "zone 2 HDMI" matrix implementation.

At this point we can't really know if a "standard" HDMI 1.4 AVR like the 4311 will successfully pass 4k, there really isn't any content to test it with. I think the best guess that it will be like 3D and HDMI 1.3 receivers, where certain formats (e.g. 1080i 3D signals) worked but the full-rez 1080p 3D signals from Blu-ray wouldn't.


Here's a link to Denon specs (and BTW you can compare any two models just by editing the URL):

LINK TO DENON SPEC SHEET COMPARISON


Inputs/Outputs:

* Both have:
--- 7 HDMI inputs (6 rear / 1 front)
--- Dual (parallel) HDMI outputs for main zone
--- "CI" connections: RS-232, dual 12V trigger outputs, room-to-room IR jack
--- DenonLink (although 4311 used DL4 and 3313 has new DLHD)
--- One analog REC OUT and zone 2/3 analog pre outs
--- PHONO input with preamp and dedicated audio-only CD input
--- 2 digital coax + 2 optical for SPDIF inputs
--- 3 composite video outputs (one of which is for zone 2 video)
--- FM and AM radio (yes the 3313 has it! )
--- Ethernet connection for DLNA, AirPlay, internet radio, web/smartphone control, etc.
--- 11 channels of speaker binding posts (although the 3313 can only do 7 at a time)

* 4311ci has the following inputs/outputs that the 3313ci does not:
--- One extra component video input
--- One extra analog RCA audio input
--- One extra composite video input
--- TWO (count em!) TWO S-video inputs (read it and weep LaserDisc lovers!)
--- Optical audio output
--- Full 11.2 pre-outs (instead of 7.2 on the 3313)
--- EXT IN 7.1 multich analog inputs
--- Rear USB input in addition to front (3313 has front input only)
--- iPod "Dock control" port (obsoleted by AirPlay/USB)
--- Sirius tuner port (3313 can do Sirius/XM via internet)

 


3313ci feature advantages:

* Zone 2 matrixed HDMI output
* 4k video scaling
* Can definitely pass 4k video (unknown and possibly unlikely on 4311)
* Can overlay GUI/volume graphics on top of 3D video
* AirPlay independent to Zone 2 
* SiriusXM and Spotify (coming via firmware update later this summer)

 


4311ci feature advantages:

* MultEQ XT32 with SubEQ HT (only XT on the 3313)
* 9 amps built in (instead of 7)
* Weighs almost 12lbs more (38.2 vs. 26.5)
* More powerful amps (rated at 140 W/ch into 8ohms instead of 125 W/ch, bench tests indicate a wider gap in real use)
* 4311 amps rated to drive 4ohm loads
* Rhapsody / Napster support for internet streaming (dropped on the xx13 models)

* Can output 2.0 PCM from optical/coax digital connections to Zone 2/3

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post #168 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 03:15 PM
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I recently purchased a 4311 after much reading of these forums. My decision was greatly informed by posts like the above. Thanks again batpig, jd, and all the others on here for all that you do. And be prepared to see more of me in the 4311 and the Audyssey sections.
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post #169 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 03:26 PM
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batpig

Too bad you couldn't do a 4311CI vs 4520CI comparison.

Any educated guesses whether or not the 4520 is going to lose analog inputs, multichannel in etc?
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post #170 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Any educated guesses whether or not the 4520 is going to lose analog inputs, multichannel in etc?

I highly doubt it. If (like me) you have observed the evolution of model tiers throughout the past few years, it's obvious that the upper end models have suffered much less analog input loss than the lower models. For a "flagship" product they have no reason not to throw the kitchen sink back there.

It wouldn't shock me to see S-video disappear. I would also expect that (as with the other xx13 models) maybe one RCA analog audio input will go away with the need for the "Dock" input obsoleted by AirPlay and/or USB options. But other than that I would expect to see a similar array of "legacy" options, including 7.1 multich analog, 3 component video inputs, etc. The 4520ci will be positioned as an audiophile product and they aren't going to kick to the curb all those folks who spent extra $$ on a fancy hi-end shiny disc player with multich analog output.

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post #171 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

LOL

Though if you're really an 80's guy, shouldn't you be using a cassette Walkman and/or boombox

I still have them...

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post #172 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 06:22 PM
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G'day all
I love it @ 80sGuy
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post #173 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 06:30 PM
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just an reply ,I can see where you coming from 80sGuy ,the old 1908 was top of the class from what was around that time
in the last few years the Denon 19xx came not even close to winning in there section
saying that " we still love our Denon's "
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post #174 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

seriously? how many times does it have to be noted that the 43xx/48xx replacement will be the 4520ci? This has been discussed ad nauseum in the 2013 Denon speculation thread (which I know you have been reading and posting in ).

Yup, seriously. While I do trust (and very much appreciate) what you and JD have to say in general, there was enough talk elsewhere on the interwebs about an upcoming 4313 that I wondered if something changed.

If nothing's changed then... cool.

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post #175 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

you might wish you couldn't get them this year...

I think we will be pretty good this year. I'm afraid it's all downhill after that.
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post #176 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

I think.........I'm afraid it's all downhill after that.

I hope not because if I do decide to stick with the Denon brand, it seems like I'm gonna have to force myself and spend 4 times more just for something above mediocre if they start messing with the 4300 series. It's bad enough to find out that Denon has already demoted the new 23xx series down to entry level.
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post #177 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

I think we will be pretty good this year. I'm afraid it's all downhill after that.

What are the chances that, five years from now, Denon is out of the AVR business in North America? More and more, Onkyo and Yamaha look like the only major AVR OEMs that may endure in this market.

AJ
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post #178 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 09:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoldenCruze View Post

just an reply ,I can see where you coming from 80sGuy ,the old 1908 was top of the class from what was around that time
in the last few years the Denon 19xx came not even close to winning in there section
saying that " we still love our Denon's "

You're right.
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post #179 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 09:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Can you whiners please take it somewhere else and allow this thread to remain on topic, i.e. use, setup, questions, troubleshooting etc for xx13 models?

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post #180 of 10701 Old 05-22-2012, 10:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

I think we will be pretty good this year. I'm afraid it's all downhill after that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 80sGuy View Post

I hope not because if I do decide to stick with the Denon brand, it seems like I'm gonna have to force myself and spend 4 times more just for something above mediocre if they start messing with the 4300 series. It's bad enough to find out that Denon has already demoted the new 23xx series down to entry level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WiWavelength View Post

What are the chances that, five years from now, Denon is out of the AVR business in North America? More and more, Onkyo and Yamaha look like the only major AVR OEMs that may endure in this market.

AJ

just to highlight the absurdity here, the quote you guys were responding to was about the Arkansas Razorbacks

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