The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 8 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 11171 Old 05-23-2012, 06:58 PM
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Reviewing the 1913 manual, there's a new setting called "Loudness Management" in which for the first time ever (at least with Denon AVRs) the "Dialog Normalization" (aka Dialnorm) setting can be defeated when playing Dolby TrueHD audio. No longer will you be forced to have the original audio track attenuated (as part of the process) by anywhere from 4-10db on average. This feature is available on the 1613 and higher models.

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post #212 of 11171 Old 05-23-2012, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

i hope he's not... while a s-video signal requires greater bandwidth, it changes the resolution not one whit....

the only thing a s-video connection allows is moving the comb filtering process from the display to the player... and as noted earlier, many ld players had really crappy comb filters (of course, so did many tv's)...

I'm sure, since the difference between VHS (composite video at 240 lines) vs and S-VHS (S-Video at 400 lines) is quite significant enough. As for LD, I don't owned one but are speaking on behalf of the people that do. My point is: S-Video connection outputs much higher resolution than regular Composite Video from whatever source it feeds from/to and I don't care how many combs, hair brushes or roller-curlers are needed for processing it. Although I still have a VHS machine but it was replaced by a Panasonic DMR-EH55S DVD Recorder of which I am still using to this day to record shows (yes I'm trying to avoid getting raped by my cable company's DVR). I fed a Monster S-Video cable from the cable box to the input of the Panasonic and it made a world of difference compared to when it once had regular composite connected, though at times I wish they'd still make them with a 'Component Input'.

Zoetmb made a very good point. I know it's hard for some of you die-hard Denon fanboys out there to accept the truth that the brand itself has crossed the line a bit for the current lineup. I don't have a problem with Denon omitting features which are useless, heck to be honest I don't even mind if the S-Video ports are gone but removing items like an HDMI port, EXT IN, AC Outlets, Optical OUT and so forth just bugs the hell out of me since the Denon brand has started to grow on me after having owning the 2310CI. While I'm happy with what I have but are willing to upgrade (or should I say downgrade). I was disappointed with the 2311, then with the 2312 -- all rolled out with lesser and lesser features every year. I've decided to wait for the newer 2313 and got even more disappointed. Sure everything is business (or $$$), after all they are a corporation that tries to cut costs and they are no different than some of the companies that we hear about everyday on the news.
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post #213 of 11171 Old 05-23-2012, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
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can you f'ing drop it already?????? WE ALL GET IT. YOU ARE UNHAPPY WITH THE NEWER MODELS. The things they got rid of are important and the things they have added are "useless". Clearly Denon should hire you as a product designer because you and your 8-track are so in touch with the current marketplace. Perhaps one day we "fanboys" will be privy to the "truth" that you have discovered.... until then.....

Now go away and allows us to get back to the actual point of the thread. For the love of....

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post #214 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

can you f'ing drop it already?????? WE ALL GET IT. YOU ARE UNHAPPY WITH THE NEWER MODELS. The things they got rid of are important and the things they have added are "useless". Clearly Denon should hire you as a product designer because you and your 8-track are so in touch with the current marketplace. Perhaps one day we "fanboys" will be privy to the "truth" that you have discovered.... until then.....

Now go away and allows us to get back to the actual point of the thread. For the love of....

Why don't you just relax and mind your language a bit. Those were ALL SARCASM towards my replies....do you seriously think I still owned an 8-track system and 5" floppy discs? I'm not the only one who disagreed and went off topic here....until then?
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post #215 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 01:38 AM
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Have been looking in this forum before buying, and now it is clear i need to drop in.
I am all new to Denon (and audio system setup in general), but I yesterday installed an AVR 1713 here at my home in Denmark.
It is a simple setup with a couple of System Audio speakers a Samsung UE46C8XXX, Samsung Bluray 3D (also 2010 version like the TV) player and of cause the AVR 1713.
Main purpose to have better tv sound and use airplay.
I have the audio return to work, but I can not get the Bluray player to play through the AVR1713.
Regardless of the power status on the AVR1713 or the HDMI CEC status (ON/OFF) on my smasung tv (Anynet+), nothing pops up on the screen when turning on the bluray player and I start plaback.
However some kind of communication is going on, because if I e.g. watch digital TV antenna signal and I turn on the Bluray player, my tv switches to black screen (HDMI2 ARC)

Any suggestions?
I have some thoughts but do not know how to go further:
- Could it be the HDMI cable, eventhough it surports ARC as this works? (when i turn of the HDMI CEC in the TV audio return do not work)
- Is it maybe this (ASSIGN YOUR INPUTS) that Batpig well describes on his homepage, that I am doing wrong?
Best regards
Anders
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post #216 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 02:24 AM
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check your bluray player. Make sure it works properly. Does it work when you go hdmi straight from the bluray to tv without a reciever? If that still doesn't work try another cable. If all that works, you''ll need batpig!
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post #217 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 02:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 80sGuy View Post

... I still owned an 8-track system and 5" floppy discs?

I did have an 8 track in a 66 mustang when I was in high school!
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post #218 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Apparently you've forgotten that the on-disc video of laserdiscs is composite video, not s-video. Encoders are built into those LD players which output s-video.

yup

as strange as it may be, composite was the purist output for LD. I have my current & last gen Elite model hooked up by S-video thinking it would look better but it doesn't - on the previous models composite actually had better contrast for whatever reason

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post #219 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 03:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 80sGuy View Post

I'm sure, since the difference between VHS (composite video at 240 lines) vs and S-VHS (S-Video at 400 lines) is quite significant enough. As for LD, I don't owned one but are speaking on behalf of the people that do.

are you confusing the connection, S-Video, with the tape format, S-VHS? The format may have used the other, but not mandatory. S-Video was just preferred due to how it handled the signal.

the connection S-Video has nothing to do with the lines of resolution which is a function of the format. VHS 240, S-VHS approx 400, LD 425. All of them fall under the NTSC US standard of 480 lines, which does not require a S-Video connection, just a std yella composite will do LD players used composite connections for many years before both the S-Video connection and the format S-VHS came out.

From wiki -
"Laser disc was a composite video format: the luminance (black and white) and chrominance (color) information were transmitted in one signal, separated by the receiver. While good comb filters can do so adequately, these two signals cannot be completely separated."

and this is one reason why, in many cases, using the composite signal from the player was better than using the S-video connection.

Some sources I've read maintain the best video out of a LD player was composite since the format was composite to begin with. It depends on the quality of comb filter in the player and the conversion to S-Video. Some players were better than others.

Steve
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post #220 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 03:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anders1979 View Post

Have been looking in this forum before buying, and now it is clear i need to drop in.
I am all new to Denon (and audio system setup in general), but I yesterday installed an AVR 1713 here at my home in Denmark.
It is a simple setup with a couple of System Audio speakers a Samsung UE46C8XXX, Samsung Bluray 3D (also 2010 version like the TV) player and of cause the AVR 1713.
Main purpose to have better tv sound and use airplay.
I have the audio return to work, but I can not get the Bluray player to play through the AVR1713.
Regardless of the power status on the AVR1713 or the HDMI CEC status (ON/OFF) on my smasung tv (Anynet+), nothing pops up on the screen when turning on the bluray player and I start plaback.
However some kind of communication is going on, because if I e.g. watch digital TV antenna signal and I turn on the Bluray player, my tv switches to black screen (HDMI2 ARC)

Any suggestions?
I have some thoughts but do not know how to go further:
- Could it be the HDMI cable, eventhough it surports ARC as this works? (when i turn of the HDMI CEC in the TV audio return do not work)
- Is it maybe this (ASSIGN YOUR INPUTS) that Batpig well describes on his homepage, that I am doing wrong?
Best regards
Anders

Try this tip from the Denon FAQ/Troubleshooting Guide in post #3 ---> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...?t=1334369#L18

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post #221 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoetmb View Post

Who watches analog video?

There are a few special cases, I think. For example, I'd like to have a small display near my HT seating for when I just want to listen to some music and not fire up the projector to look at the index. It's far enough from the electronics that I'd rather not use HDMI, and composite video would be fine. I'm not about to spring for something like Crestron Finding a cheap display that still has a composite input is proving difficult, though. I may have to dig out a small CRT from storage.

Otherwise, I think I agree with most of your analysis.

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post #222 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 80sGuy View Post

I'm sure, since the difference between VHS (composite video at 240 lines) vs and S-VHS (S-Video at 400 lines) is quite significant enough. As for LD, I don't owned one but are speaking on behalf of the people that do. My point is: S-Video connection outputs much higher resolution than regular Composite Video from whatever source it feeds from/to and I don't care how many combs, hair brushes or roller-curlers are needed for processing it. Although I still have a VHS machine but it was replaced by a Panasonic DMR-EH55S DVD Recorder of which I am still using to this day to record shows (yes I'm trying to avoid getting raped by my cable company's DVR). I fed a Monster S-Video cable from the cable box to the input of the Panasonic and it made a world of difference compared to when it once had regular composite connected, though at times I wish they'd still make them with a 'Component Input'.

just as a fwiw... if one is trying to make a point, it behooves one to have their facts correct... which you do not... if you are going to "stick up" for a group of users, you should at least have a rudimentary understanding of what you are sticking up for...

as i (correctly) stated, and steve (correctly) followed up on, s-video does not effect the resolution, it merely changes the comb filter location...

suggestion: google "video comb filter"... gain some understanding of what you are trying to discuss, and then we can talk... otherwise, you are merely continuing to send this thread further off the rails (which you've been asked several times to stop doing)...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #223 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

just as a fwiw... if one is trying to make a point, it behooves one to have their facts correct... which you do not... if you are going to "stick up" for a group of users, you should at least have a rudimentary understanding of what you are sticking up for...

as i (correctly) stated, and steve (correctly) followed up on, s-video does not effect the resolution, it merely changes the comb filter location...

suggestion: google "video comb filter"... gain some understanding of what you are trying to discuss, and then we can talk... otherwise, you are merely continuing to send this thread further off the rails (which you've been asked several times to stop doing)...

Why are still bringing this up? I'm not talking about the technological part of it, but merely stating that it is absent from the newer units. If I wanted REAL info I'll either start a thread or ask the question directly. As I mentioned earlier, I can mind w/o the input though it'd be nice if Denon can leave at least one on it. If you want to this thread to stay on topic then stop making the same fuss, and with all due respect you're the first one who started going technical about the S-Video thing.
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post #224 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 10:54 AM
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Lets calm this thread down, geez. I got the 2113ci yesterday, sounds good so far and easy to set up. I will try to hardware the receiver this weekend for Internet radio.
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post #225 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Likely depends on the quality of your speakers although if you're considering anywhere from $500 for an installer to come out to $700 to purchase the kit, you likely have a nice setup (ie. > $1500). If that's the case then spending the money first on the 4311CI would likely be your best bet as there are quite a few former XT owners in the 4311CI/A100 thread that have upgraded to XT32 from an XT AVR with a much more noticeable improvement in audio fidelity then going from MultEQ to XT, although your question is better posted in the Audyssey Pro Installer thread below which has a number of mostly XT32 owner's posting who have upgraded to XT32 first and then bought the kit. Not sure if any of them have used the kit on a XT AVR however.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1346723

Thank you,

I am using Atlantic Technology System 10 in-walls behind an acoustically transparent screen, with Sys 10 in-wall dipoles for the surrounds, and AT ICTS-6.2 ceiling speakers for the rear. The sub is a JBL Northridge E250P. They are in a dedicated theater room. The installer recommended to the building contractor that the side walls should angle away from each other at about 7 deg., so the room was built appx 9'6" wide at the front, and expands to appx 11'8" wide near the seating. The rear of the room can be completely open, or completely closed by a sliding "zig-zag" type door for movie viewing, and it is about 15' front to back wall when closed.

Because the room was already designed to minimize sound issues, I am wondering if I would really notice the more advanced calibration offered by the (significantly more expensive) XT32 AVRs. My impression is that the higher end Audyssey's value is better realized in solving difficult room reflection issues more so than envelope optimization, and it sounds like MultEQ XT does a fairly good job at a much more competitive price. It's certain that I would notice a big improvement over my Integra DTR 6.5. I'm wondering if spending more than twice as much for XT32 makes more than twice an improvement in a semi-optimized room?
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post #226 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 11:02 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks for the post! so hopefully staying on topic, it would be great if you (or some other xx13 owner) would confirm the independent Airplay to zone 2 functionality.

1. start up an AirPlay stream
2. activate zone 2 and get the Airplay music going in zone 2
3. switch main zone to a different source
4. does the AirPlay audio continue in zone 2?

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post #227 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 11:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morty343 View Post

I'm wondering if spending more than twice as much for XT32 makes more than twice an improvement in a semi-optimized room?

Well, no, because you are on the "diminishing returns" portion of the curve. Similarly adding Pro Kit will not double the sound quality.

As to your original question -- is it smarter to get an XT AVR + Pro Kit or spend that same money on the 4311... to me the 4311 is still a no brainer. It's a beast and a proven performer with awesome SQ.

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post #228 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 12:27 PM
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^^^

i agree... i would start with the 4311, as xt32 is a significant step up from xt, whereas pro is an incremental step up from xt32...

as alluded to... once you get past a very modest price level, "double the price" never even comes close to "twice as good"... that's not just true in a/v, that's true of everything...

edit: YES! as soon as somene hooks one up, please test airplay functionality...

- chris

 

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post #229 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 01:50 PM
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Att JDSmoothie. I am not allowed to quote as i am new so here is my reply.

Thank you very much. Turning off the deep color mode on my Samsung Bluray did the trick. I am very happy for my setup now. A bit disapointed by my self that i have to ask though, after trying "everything" last night till 2 AM. ;-(
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post #230 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 02:37 PM
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^^
Great! Much better to ask the question and "see the light" rather than not and remain "in the dark".

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post #231 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^

i agree... i would start with the 4311, as xt32 is a significant step up from xt, whereas pro is an incremental step up from xt32...

as alluded to... once you get past a very modest price level, "double the price" never even comes close to "twice as good"... that's not just true in a/v, that's true of everything...

edit: YES! as soon as somene hooks one up, please test airplay functionality...

One snag for me on going the XT32 route (via a 4311), and that is exactly what your edit was about: AirPlay over Zone 2. I currently send Zone 2 preouts to a Russound home audio amp, and I would really like to be able to do the same thing with a new AVR which supports AirPlay. The 4311 doesn't do this. I'm starting to understand others' disappointment that the 3313ci didn't include XT32, as it looks like one is going to have to spend big bucks on a 4520 to get it and Zone 2 AirPlay capability. Which would be overkill in my own case.
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post #232 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
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just to be clear, the 4311 absolutely support AirPlay to Zone 2. It just can't do it INDEPENDENTLY of main zone (i.e. you can't be watching TV in main zone while streaming AirPlay to zone 2/3). Any other source can be sent independently to zone 2/3, it's just AirPlay that had this limitation (now resolved ostensibly in the xx13 models).

if that is the only thing holding you back, the simple addition of an AppleTV or Airport Express will solve the problem. That wouldn't hold me back from XT32 if you can afford the premium price of the 4311.

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post #233 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 03:12 PM
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^^^ this....

it's an easily solved problem, far from a dealbreaker...

- chris

 

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post #234 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 03:25 PM
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^^

I had considered the option of getting an Apple TV and connecting its optical out to the AVR as a workaround...

Unless I misunderstand, to use AirPlay in a secondary zone in prior year models (assuming the main zone isn't being used) it's still required to power up the AVR and then switch to AirPlay. I like the functionality of my current Integra, Zone 2 remains active when the "main" power is off, and I can still surf FM stations etc. or switch to different analog inputs.

Are this year's Denon models supposedly able to treat control of AirPlay as if it were like any other input (other than HDMI), where it can be operated without switching on the main power? Hope I'm making myself clear.
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post #235 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 03:37 PM
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^^^

the atv is actually a better option, as it allows you to stream video (to the main zone) as well..

that sounds right (the sequence), but to be honest, i don't recall... i used it a few times* since it was a cool toy (and i'm a geek ), then just went back to using the atv like i had before...

* i also went through the same routine when i had the av7005, but since i was an early adopter on that one, i hadda pay the 49 bucks...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #236 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 03:56 PM
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Sorry to bring this up, but I could not find it here and not sure if it has been released yet, but has the specs for the 4520 been released yet?
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post #237 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 03:59 PM
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^^
Denon will be releasing that information late summer as the 4520CI is not due to be released until Sep.

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post #238 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 04:04 PM
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^^

I think an Airport Express to an analog input on a 4311 would be the only option, because if using an ATV, it would need to connect to the AVR via optical if I wanted to create "independent" AirPlay to Zone 2. The Denon manual states that if one wants to play audio from a digital audio input to Zone 2, it must be PCM 2.0 encoded, and it's unclear if one can "lock" an ATV's optical out to PCM.

I am not in a hurry to pull the trigger on a new AVR, so maybe a better bet would be for me to wait for the "clearance" pricing on the 4311s to get XT32.
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post #239 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 04:12 PM
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I wouldn't bank on clearance prices or wait too long as the 4311CI's will likely sell out very quickly without any price reduction (other than of course from those resellers still selling at full MSRP).

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post #240 of 11171 Old 05-24-2012, 04:13 PM
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Could probably convert the ATV optical audio to analog and handle it that way if you wanted. Feels likes a lot to get it to work but still likely pretty cheap. (At least if I'm understanding the problem correctly.)

Also, regarding 4311 pricing, check over here for talks on that http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...1388717&page=8
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