The **OFFICIAL** Denon AVR-XX13 Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 9 - AVS Forum
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Old 05-24-2012, 05:19 PM - Thread Starter
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ATV optical will work fine with the 4311. All music streams will be 2.0 PCM anyway. Some video content will be 5.1 DD but I doubt you will be streaming that to other zones.

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Old 05-24-2012, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morty343 View Post

^^

I think an Airport Express to an analog input on a 4311 would be the only option, because if using an ATV, it would need to connect to the AVR via optical if I wanted to create "independent" AirPlay to Zone 2. The Denon manual states that if one wants to play audio from a digital audio input to Zone 2, it must be PCM 2.0 encoded, and it's unclear if one can "lock" an ATV's optical out to PCM.

I am not in a hurry to pull the trigger on a new AVR, so maybe a better bet would be for me to wait for the "clearance" pricing on the 4311s to get XT32.

i have been using an atv in the way you want for many many moons....

just out of curiosity... are you powering the zone from the avr, or are you using the preouts? if you are using preouts to a separately powered/volume controlled zone, just stuff an ax there, and you are done, don't even bother with zone 2...

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Old 05-24-2012, 06:19 PM
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Does anyone know if the future update to give the 2013 Models Spotify will work for the 2012 models as well?
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Old 05-24-2012, 06:21 PM
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^^
Sorry ... but it will not.

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Old 05-24-2012, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

i have been using an atv in the way you want for many many moons....

just out of curiosity... are you powering the zone from the avr, or are you using the preouts? if you are using preouts to a separately powered/volume controlled zone, just stuff an ax there, and you are done, don't even bother with zone 2...

Yes I am currently using the preouts on my Integra DTR-6.5, and they feed into an older Russound home A/V distribution amp. You're right; I could feed an AX directly into an available set of inputs on it, but currently there are none. What I am picturing is the AVR's Zone 2 preouts going into the Russound amp, and I will use the AVR to switch between AirPlay (via AX), Rhapsody, and FM radio. Between the Denon app and Apple's Remote app I could control the various home audio zones with my iPhone, I believe...
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Old 05-24-2012, 06:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Better act fast then as the 4311CI ends the 43XX series and has been or will very shortly be discontinued.

Will probably have to take up on your advice and grab hold of one of them before they're gone for good.
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Old 05-24-2012, 06:56 PM
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^^
Yup .. and with the new Onkyo 818 being only $128 less and not featuring SUB EQ HT, it's likely folks will jump to the more feature laden 4311CI until they're no longer available.

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Old 05-25-2012, 06:43 AM
 
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Yep, until the 4311 is gone, it is the best bang for the buck.
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Old 05-26-2012, 10:57 AM
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I know this topic has been touched on, but I'm still a bit confused. I have an Apple TV connected to my existing Denon AVR 2800 (yes, this is old), which allows me to enjoy 5.1 surround in the living room (speaker A) and also stereo on two separate speakers on the patio (speaker B). Turning living room speakers off and patio speakers on is as simple as a couple button clicks on the front panel.

I'm interested in upgrading to either 1713 or 2113 model, but am concerned whether I'll be able to:

1 - Send Apple TV audio (connected via HDMI) to the outside speakers (zone 2?)
2 - Easily be able to turn on/off inside and outside speakers depending on listening needs like I can today

I DO NOT need to play one source on Zone 1 and another source on Zone 2 simultaneously, if that makes a difference in the answer.

Thank you!
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Old 05-26-2012, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brouillet View Post

1 - Send Apple TV audio (connected via HDMI) to the outside speakers (zone 2?)

2 - Easily be able to turn on/off inside and outside speakers depending on listening needs like I can today

I DO NOT need to play one source on Zone 1 and another source on Zone 2 simultaneously, if that makes a difference in the answer.

Thank you!

1 - No, for some inane reason, no AVR on the market can do this. Also, the 3313 lost its ability to send PCM 2.0 (ie from the optical connector) to zone 2 as well.

2 - You'll have to check the manuals to see how far into the menus the speaker B control is. Note that this is not zone 2, so there might be some wierdness since you'll only have two channels rather than all 5.
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Old 05-26-2012, 12:54 PM
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^^
Actually the new Denon 3313CI and Marantz SR7007 can send HDMI audio to Zone 2 via a dedicated HDMI Zone 2 jack as well as the higher model Denon 4520CI to be released in Sep.

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Old 05-26-2012, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brouillet View Post

I know this topic has been touched on, but I'm still a bit confused. I have an Apple TV connected to my existing Denon AVR 2800 (yes, this is old), which allows me to enjoy 5.1 surround in the living room (speaker A) and also stereo on two separate speakers on the patio (speaker B). Turning living room speakers off and patio speakers on is as simple as a couple button clicks on the front panel.

I'm interested in upgrading to either 1713 or 2113 model, but am concerned whether I'll be able to:

1 - Send Apple TV audio (connected via HDMI) to the outside speakers (zone 2?)
2 - Easily be able to turn on/off inside and outside speakers depending on listening needs like I can today

I DO NOT need to play one source on Zone 1 and another source on Zone 2 simultaneously, if that makes a difference in the answer.

Thank you!

Any of the XX12 and XX13 Denon 7.1 AVRs (excludes the 1713 which is only 5.1) feature the "Front B" capability which can do the same thing as your 2800; however, the "Speakers" button is no longer on the front panel or remote so you must dig into the GUI menu to make the change unless you have a Harmony remote which can be taught the old Front A/B command.

1. As long as you only want the same capability as you currently have with the 2800 (ie. same source in main zone and Zone 2) then the "Front B" setup is likely your best recourse. Note however, the 1713 is only 5.1 and therefore does not feature "Front B" speakers. You might want to consider the 1712 as it is a 7.1 AVR with "Front B" capability. It also has custom STEREO settings which would allow you to setup STEREO to the "Front B" speakers and as long as you don't use STEREO in the main zone, anytime you change the surround mode to STEREO (easily done via the remote) it would switch to your "Front B" speakers.

2. See above.

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Old 05-26-2012, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Actually the new Denon 3313CI and Marantz SR7007 can send HDMI audio to Zone 2 as well as the higher model Denon 4520CI to be released in Sep.

Everything I've read (from you and batpig) has said that it can only go out the zone 2 HDMI connector, which is more or less useless. If it can decode the audio and send it out the zone 2 speaker posts, I'd be ecstatic, but somehow I doubt that's the case.
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Old 05-26-2012, 02:33 PM
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^^
Correct. It's simply an HDMI switch via the HDMI Zone 2 jack which will satisfy some users.

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Old 05-26-2012, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Any of the XX12 and XX13 Denon 7.1 AVRs (excludes the 1713 which is only 5.1) feature the "Front B" capability which can do the same thing as your 2800; however, the "Speakers" button is no longer on the front panel or remote so you must dig into the GUI menu to make the change unless you have a Harmony remote which can be taught the old Front A/B command.

1. As long as you only want the same capability as you currently have with the 2800 (ie. same source in main zone and Zone 2) then the "Front B" setup is likely your best recourse. Note however, the 1713 is only 5.1 and therefore does not feature "Front B" speakers. You might want to consider the 1712 as it is a 7.1 AVR with "Front B" capability. It also has custom STEREO settings which would allow you to setup STEREO to the "Front B" speakers and as long as you don't use STEREO in the main zone, anytime you change the surround mode to STEREO (easily done via the remote) it would switch to your "Front B" speakers.

2. See above.


Thank you for the replies to my post. I was a little bummed to learn that digital sources could not be used using the actual Zone 2 functionality, but am glad to know there is a "Front B" concept that still exists and will work with HDMI connections.

Thank you for pointing out that the 1713 is a 5.1 system. I meant to say I was comparing the 1913 and 2113, with the main difference that seemed possibly relevant to me, being the better Audyssey XT feature. I just need to decide whether it's worthwhile.

I'm also intrigued with your comments regarding the 1712. Does the 1913 or 2113 offer that "STEREO" assign-ability as well?

Thanks!
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:09 PM
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Some of the irritation here seems to be what is the purpose of the thread. From the title, it is mostly for owners to work on issues. Usually these threads are a lot of interest in the new features and whether the shiny new toys are worth getting. Part of that is how they compare to their predecessors and what else is out there. In 2010 I was happier getting a 2310ci and a blu-ray player hearing that 1080i component capability was on its way out but were still available on those models. In practice, I just use 1080i component for the cable box (less risk of HDMI handshake and to play music with a TV show) but even for that there are workarounds. So what might have seemed like a problem in 2011 or 2012 in retrospect hasn't been that big a deal for an average user. Today, you do have a clear situation where the 4311 is offering more than several years worth of next level down "improvements" can. So, if this is viewed as not so much a complaint at what the mass market wants but rather something to think about in terms of how high up the line to go or whether to get last year's high end model, it has some place in a purchase decision thread.

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Old 05-26-2012, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brouillet View Post

Thank you for the replies to my post. I was a little bummed to learn that digital sources could not be used using the actual Zone 2 functionality, but am glad to know there is a "Front B" concept that still exists and will work with HDMI connections.

Thank you for pointing out that the 1713 is a 5.1 system. I meant to say I was comparing the 1913 and 2113, with the main difference that seemed possibly relevant to me, being the better Audyssey XT feature. I just need to decide whether it's worthwhile.

I'm also intrigued with your comments regarding the 1712. Does the 1913 or 2113 offer that "STEREO" assign-ability as well?

Thanks!

Correct. Analog only to Zone 2 is common to pretty much 98% of all AVRs on the market today. And the 7.1 AVRs to include the 1913 and 2113CI feature the A, B, A+B custom speaker settings to allow STEREO to be Front B only if desired.

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Old 05-26-2012, 05:57 PM
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A question from a noob. For those of you who own the 2113ci are you able stream audio from a Mac or iPad without using iTunes to any zone. I listen to CBS radio from its app or website and want to be able to stream it. Everything I have read says you can only stream from iTunes.
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Old 05-26-2012, 06:16 PM
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^^
There are a number of DLNA apps available that you can also use to stream non-iTunes audio as well as using the AirFoil app to stream non-iOS audio via Airplay.

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Old 05-26-2012, 06:44 PM
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Great!! So from the standpoint of use. I want to be able to have surround sound with my theater and be able to stream music to a second zone. I'm not an audiophile but I don't want an annoying system that's difficult to use. Everything I have read is Denon is the way to go. Is the 2112ci enough for someone like me or should I get the 2113ci. The 2112 is now discounted pretty well with the new ones out.

I've always believed in getting the latest models but I'm not so sure here.
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Old 05-26-2012, 06:49 PM
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^^
If using the on board Airplay to Zone 2 with a XX12 model (eg. 2112CI), the same source must also be selected in the main zone as well, whereas with a XX13 model (eg. 2113CI), you can play Airplay independent to Zone 2 with another source playing in the main zone. This limitation does not apply to other network audio sources not using Airplay.

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Old 05-27-2012, 02:38 PM
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Hi folks,
I was just setting up an AVR-1913 for my aunt yesterday, and came across a problem getting the tuner section going.
I got the Bluray section and Cable section up fine, but when it came time to test out FM stereo I could NOT get a signal (or any sound at all).
When we switch to FM and tried to autoset the radio channels, it looked like the tuner was just setting every channel up small increments. It didn't even find some of the stronger toronto stations (104.5/107.1 etc).
And it wouldn't output anything when we manually tuned in (and pressed enter on remote).
It's like something in the antennae section is broken.

am I missing something?

thanks, in advance, for any advice you can offer.
This is running on a 3.0 speaker system.

Regards,
L.

P.S. sounds pretty good so far from what i can hear. Lots of detail coming through.

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Old 05-27-2012, 02:55 PM
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^^
Did you plug in the enclosed FM antenna?

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Old 05-28-2012, 07:39 AM
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Ya, and tried a different antenna too (from the older sony unit), but no luck.
Is there a way to reload default settings or something?
I'd hate to take this back after spending so long on speaker hookups and zip tying cables for management.

Home is where my theatre is.
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Old 05-28-2012, 08:21 AM
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Use the SAVE/LOAD feature in Web Control (p. 89-90) to SAVE the config file to a PC (also use either Notepad or a hex viewer to ensure the file actually has data stored and is not all zeroes otherwise SAVE again if that is the case) and then reset the microprocessor (p. 146) to see if that resolves the issue.

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Old 05-28-2012, 10:59 AM
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I currently own an old Denon AVR 2800 and am looking to upgrade to the XX13 model year. At this point I've narrowed it down to the 1913 and the 2113CI. Honestly the only thing making me keep the 2113CI in the running is the fact that is has the Audyssey MultiEQ XT instead of the the MultiEQ (1913). The extra year of warranty is certainly a nice to have, but even that isn't that big of a deal to me. Now, if the 2113CI was truly built on a "nicer" platform that would be more compelling, but I gather this is not the case. I know the two units are priced within $70 MSRP -- not sure what the difference is in real-world pricing...

Coming from an old AVR 2800 Audyssey in any flavor would be a welcome improvement, but I don't know whether going the extra mile to get the XT version is worthwhile given I don't upgrade AVRs very often (7-10yrs). One other possibility would be to wait and see if the XT32 variation continues to work its way down to the 21XX for the XX14 model year since I understand the XT32 is quite a leap forward.

Bottom line is my speaker setup is nothing fancy (in-walls/in-ceiling fronts/rears that came with the house, and a Polk sub and Polk front channel I added) so that may play into the strategy.

Any thoughts/perspective would be most welcomed.
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Old 05-28-2012, 11:29 AM
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^^
The upgrade to XT might only provide a nominal increase in audio fidelity, however, in the end, the decision always comes down to budget. Another thing to note though is that the 1913 does not have Zone 2 preouts. Originally I never planned on Zone 2 speakers, however, would later come to appreciate Zone 2 preouts in which I connect a set of wireless headphones so I can listen to an independent audio source in my office while the main zone is used for another source. If you don't ever see a need for the additional features provided by the 2113CI, get the 1913 and enjoy.

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Old 05-28-2012, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
The upgrade to XT might only provide a nominal increase in audio fidelity, however, in the end, the decision always comes down to budget. Another thing to note though is that the 1913 does not have Zone 2 preouts. Originally I never planned on Zone 2 speakers, however, would later come to appreciate Zone 2 preouts in which I connect a set of wireless headphones so I can listen to an independent audio source in my office while the main zone is used for another source. If you don't ever see a need for the additional features provided by the 2113CI, get the 1913 and enjoy.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this. I hadn't thought about the Zone 2 Pre-out angle, thank you. So, I take it with that, one can hookup powered/wireless headphones/speakers without needing to have a dedicated, second amp? If so, I assume the Zone 2 limitations still exist that I had posted (and you replied to) already earlier this weekend?

Thanks!
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Old 05-28-2012, 01:04 PM
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^^
Correct on both counts.

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Old 05-28-2012, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

eyeballing the 3312 vs. 3313 photos and spec sheets, this is what I can see:

LINK TO DENON SPEC SHEET COMPARISON

The same:

* Same size, same power (125w/ch x 7)
* The input/output allocation is nearly identical:
--- Both have 11 speaker posts but only 7.2 ch pre-amp outputs (i.e. can connect + EQ 11 speakers but only 7 active at a time)
--- Both have 6 rear HDMI inputs
--- Both have 1 front HDMI input, 1 front USB input, and front panel RCA input (R/L stereo + composite video)
--- Both have dual HDMI outs (parallel) for main zone
--- Both have 2 component video inputs + 1 output, and 2 digital coax + 2 optical audio inputs
--- Both have Zone 2 + Zone 3 pre-outs and one analog REC OUT
--- Both have RS-232, two 12v trigger outs, and room-to-room IR jacks
--- Both have six analog audio inputs (excluding the "DOCK" input that disappears) including a PHONO input
* Both have "advanced GUI" and analog>HDMI video conversion
* Both have networking with Airplay support etc.
* Same DAC's and ADC and DSP chips
* Both have AL24 processing on FR/FL channels only
* Both have the same Audyssey package (MultEQ XT + Dyn EQ/Vol + DSX)

3313ci losses vs. 3312ci:

* No more iPod "Dock" input with control port (obsoleted by Airplay + USB options)
* No more S-video inputs
* One fewer composite video input
* Networking drops Rhapsody / Napster support
* New "simplified" remote cannot be programmed to control other devices
* No more AM radio tuner (although the HD tuner supports AM where available)


3313ci gains vs. 3312ci:

* Zone 2 matrixed HDMI output
* 4k video scaling
* DenonLink HD
* AirPlay independent to Zone 2
* SiriusXM and Spotify (coming via firmware update later this summer)
* Aluminum faceplate with drop-down door hiding front panel controls
* Hidden front panel controls include D-pad + buttons for setup menu access (meaning you can set it up without the remote unlike the 3312)


(plus the unconfirmed possibility that the 3313ci loses the digital>analog ability for 2.0 PCM output to standard Zone 2, but wait for the manual to appear before panicking)

noticed the discrepancy of the pcm based on first page FAQ and mixed in the threads. any confirmations yet?
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