new yamahas worth a damn? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 05-07-2012, 07:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Im looking for a new HT amp for my family room remodel. I have had good experiences with the Yamaha line (I own an RXV-3900) but am concerned about all the additional bells and whistles on the Aventage product line. I dont use DSPs, I dont use the multizoning, I wont be using all the internet hoohah. I just want a solid, good sounding 5.1 amp (hopefully with a decent phono pre) with 3 hdmi ins, a couple of component ins, and a couple of analog ins.

Ive been stung once having "upgraded" my first yamaha (rxv-793) to a sony DA5ES which I hated. Im really gunshy about yamaha loosing their quality as well (hell, theyve even made their display blue like the sony!).

Has anyone had any experience with the current aventage line and/or the non aventage line? Is there any noticable sound quality difference between the product models or years, or is it really all about picking the model that most closely has the features I want and not those I dont?

Thanks for your help,

-R.
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post #2 of 22 Old 05-07-2012, 08:00 PM
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There is no real difference in SQ between the Aventage and RX lines to my ears. You will hear differences between brands as they use different RC software.
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post #3 of 22 Old 05-07-2012, 09:18 PM
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The 3900 is a great receiver. It had tons of bells and whistles for it's time and place, so I am not sure why you are concerned about a new model with yet more of that

I have never heard Aventage, I have only seen the specs. That line has a better warranty than you 3900 had.

One question I do have, is why are you replacing it? If it's still working properly, not much has changed since it came out. 3D if you need that was added. Some newer gismos ( having Pandora in a receiver is GREAT, but not sure it's worth the price of a new receiver I doubt Aventage adds more power over what the 3900 gives you, so don't expect sound improvements, IMO.

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post #4 of 22 Old 05-07-2012, 09:25 PM
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Aventages are worth a damn and Yamaha is gaining increasing market share every year because of them. Their dsp's are actually quite nice, especially the sci-fi dsp while watching particular movies. The new models are coming with apple AirPlay now and the new aventages due out in sept will have it too.

The xx20 models like the 3020 and 2020 will be able to upscale to 4k, airstream and have the ability to output two different sources through both hdmi ports.
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post #5 of 22 Old 05-08-2012, 12:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman View Post

One question I do have, is why are you replacing it?

Im not actually, im leaving it in the living room where its doing quite nicely. Im doing a family room remodel and adding HT there as well. I paid a pretty penny for the 3900 and dont use most of the features it offers. Im wondering if, as you go down the product line, the difference is only features, or if youre sacrificing SQ as well. Also, im curious if the same applies across the Aventage, RXV and HTR lines.

I dont mind paying a premium for sound quality. I dont like paying a premium for features I will never use.

Thanks,
-R.
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post #6 of 22 Old 05-08-2012, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

Aventages are worth a damn and Yamaha is gaining increasing market share every year because of them.

I thought Aventage was the name of the current year's line. Has it been around for multiple years?


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Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

Their dsp's are actually quite nice, especially the sci-fi dsp while watching particular movies.

This may be. Call me a purist, however, but I prefer to watch the movie with the sound track as the engineer designed it.


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Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

The new models are coming with apple AirPlay now and the new aventages due out in sept will have it too.

The xx20 models like the 3020 and 2020 will be able to upscale to 4k, airstream and have the ability to output two different sources through both hdmi ports.


I dont want my receiver networked (I have a media player for that). The other features fall into the category of "futureproofing" that, by the time I would need them, I would probably be replacing the amp for other compatability issues anyway (Like I replaced my RXV-793 cause I needed Component Video).

Im concerned about the industry's cramming more and more "features" into an amp. I just want a 5.1 Yamaha that sounds great and has the inputs I need. On paper, thats one of the base models. Im looking for some practical experience to confirm or deny that.

-R.
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post #7 of 22 Old 05-08-2012, 12:54 PM
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I can say for sure you sacrifice power supply capability. That's why you see a big weight difference between the cheap, and more expensive models. It's the power transformer.

Some people here claim that you need very little power, and that unless you double power, you won't hear a difference. My own experience does not match those predictions however. I find that the cheaper models don't seem to perform as well. Been meaning to swap my 800 series in the bedroom with my Z7 to test that again, but it's a non trivial project.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #8 of 22 Old 05-08-2012, 01:34 PM
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I wouldn't be surprised if the highest end receivers have power supplies that can come close to outputting twice the continuous sustained power of the lowest end receivers. This is something that doesn't show up very well if you're just comparing the speaker wattage numbers.

Having not compared Yamaha's receivers I can't say what the actual audio quality differences are. What I can say is if there's an HTR model of receiver in your market, there almost certainly is RX-V or maybe RX-A equilvent with the exact same parts. Don't judge these receivers by their model name prefixes.
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post #9 of 22 Old 05-08-2012, 03:23 PM
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Aventage is a new name they are using. They are going on their third generation. If you don't need all of the fluff, Ross provides good advice looking at the RX-V line. You still get great build quality and power.

I have an older RX-V 663 that is in my daughters room now. The receiver still has great quality driving a pair of paradigm studio 20s when I tested them one day. The efficency rating on your speakers are going to make or break your power requirements. Paradigm studios are rated at 91db and don't require much muscle.

The new RX-V are now just coming out and still have some pretty nice features in them, most AirPlay equipped too. Very reliable and built like tanks too.
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post #10 of 22 Old 05-08-2012, 04:26 PM
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Yamaha has been known for its DSPs for 2 decades, I'm surprised that you didn't use any of them.

Personally I don't use DSPs for movie playbacks, but I do use quite a few of them during TV watching.

Unless you are looking for A3010 to replace your 3900, I doubt 2010 will sound any better. 3010 does have more real world power(just slightly more, though), same DAC as RX-Z11(DSD1796)and arguably better built/looking.

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post #11 of 22 Old 05-08-2012, 04:42 PM
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Looks like my 4600 crapped out. What is comparable in the power department? I see there are big weight differences with the newer Yamaha's. Like half the weight of the 4600.
I have large speakers with big 15" woofers & need the power to drive them.
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post #12 of 22 Old 05-08-2012, 04:58 PM
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I love the bass and power of a 15 inch speaker. it's cool to feel the vibration from them. I use to have two sets of 15 inch speakers until I blew them. What brand are they?
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post #13 of 22 Old 05-08-2012, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy02cls View Post

Looks like my 4600 crapped out. What is comparable in the power department? I see there are big weight differences with the newer Yamaha's.

RX-A3010 is a bit heavier than V4600.

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post #14 of 22 Old 05-08-2012, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TuenMuner View Post

Yamaha has been known for its DSPs for 2 decades, I'm surprised that you didn't use any of them.

Personally I don't use DSPs for movie playbacks, but I do use quite a few of them during TV watching.

Unless you are looking for A3010 to replace your 3900, I doubt 2010 will sound any better. 3010 does have more real world power(just slightly more, though), same DAC as RX-Z11(DSD1796)and arguably better built/looking.

Yamaha stopped producing their own audio DSPs about 10 years ago..
Today they use TI audio DSPs just like Onkyo, Denon, Pioneer and Harman/Kardon...

Just my $0.02...
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post #15 of 22 Old 05-08-2012, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy02cls View Post

Looks like my 4600 crapped out. What is comparable in the power department? I see there are big weight differences with the newer Yamaha's. Like half the weight of the 4600.
I have large speakers with big 15" woofers & need the power to drive them.

What is your budget?
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post #16 of 22 Old 05-08-2012, 05:34 PM
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Also, a DSP is just a computer that specializes in processing audio streams. It's all in the programming, which can be customized. So it should not really matter what the DSPs are. DSP power does matter. For example, a receiver may not be able to do certain things, or may implement a less sophisticated version of room correction on lower models due to lack of DSP power.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #17 of 22 Old 05-08-2012, 05:38 PM
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Yamaha and everyone else have to use a dsp of some sort when it comes to some 7.1 content and anyone wanting 9 or 11 channel, which is me. The Yamaha dsp's have been excellent in this regard for 9.2 playback. I would like to see neo x in the Yamaha line next.
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post #18 of 22 Old 05-08-2012, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

Yamaha stopped producing their own audio DSPs about 10 years ago..
Today they use TI audio DSPs just like Onkyo, Denon, Pioneer and Harman/Kardon...

Just my $0.02...

Yes I knew that. But how about the default DSP settings? Not all brands are going to have the same sound when the DSP is on.

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post #19 of 22 Old 05-08-2012, 06:21 PM
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I love the bass and power of a 15 inch speaker. it's cool to feel the vibration from them. I use to have two sets of 15 inch speakers until I blew them. What brand are they?

Older E series Cerwin Vega's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Venomous View Post

What is your budget?

$550. I'm not opposed to getting a like new or old stock older model. That's how I got my last 2. I can't really afford much more. My 2092 still works fine, I can use that for at least 2 channel stereo(current duty)

I also do not have the tech to use the new features of new models. I only have the blu ray player & 1080I TV & 5 speakers. No plans to upgrade cause they still work fine.
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post #20 of 22 Old 05-08-2012, 06:30 PM
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You all mentioned dsp. The Yamaha HTR-5730 that I got for 15 bucks 7 days ago at goodwill, says Cinema DSP Digital. I only hooked one Kenwood speaker to it. I know this is going to sound strange, but it makes it sound bright. I tried the same speaker on a small aiwa stereo. It didn't sound as bright in the treble. Is kenwood a bright speaker normally? I didn't notice a jbl powered subwoofer for 22 bucks in another part of the store. I saw another customer find it. I Wish that I had saw the subwoofer. I was in the store before he arrived.
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post #21 of 22 Old 05-08-2012, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fuzzy02cls View Post

Older E series Cerwin Vega's.


$550. I'm not opposed to getting a like new or old stock older model. That's how I got my last 2. I can't really afford much more. My 2092 still works fine, I can use that for at least 2 channel stereo(current duty)

I also do not have the tech to use the new features of new models. I only have the blu ray player & 1080I TV & 5 speakers. No plans to upgrade cause they still work fine.

Go for the RX-V473. It's 115 watts a channel or you can gobble up last years model 471 for under 250 jalapenos at electronics expo.
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post #22 of 22 Old 05-08-2012, 08:11 PM
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Keep your 3900 unless you want 7.2 or greater.I have the 3900 and run two subs off it using a Y splitter and people are blown away by its performance.
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