Denon 2112 vs 1913?!?! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 05-18-2012, 07:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys, I'm looking to make a new a/v receiver purchase and I've narrowed it down the either one of these Denon's. Please give me some info and the differences between the two, as well as which one you think I should buy. They'll only be powering Polk Monitor 70s and a CS2 so the power is not that big of a deal. PLEASE help. I'm torn between the two and have NO idea which one to go with. Or would you think waiting a little bit for the 2113 would be the better option?! Thank You in advance, I really appreciate it!
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post #2 of 31 Old 05-18-2012, 07:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Also, on Denon's website they list "OneCall" as an authorized dealer on their list of authorized dealers. But, if I click on an individual model and then click on online dealers, "OneCall" is not listed. Should I be careful about buying from them?
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post #3 of 31 Old 05-18-2012, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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What about a Marantz 5006? I found one for 600. Or should I stick with Denon?
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post #4 of 31 Old 05-18-2012, 08:27 PM
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OneCall is just fine. Call them for the best prices.

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post #5 of 31 Old 05-19-2012, 04:26 AM
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The 2112 gets my vote.
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post #6 of 31 Old 05-19-2012, 05:47 AM
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You'll have to go through both of these models feature lists as both are way to limited to have any consideration by myself.

Right now, you can find a AVR-2312CI for only $20 more than the new AVR-1913 on Amazon and have much more than what either of these models can offer.

Otherwise you'll just have to find what feature set works the best with you. I find it unacceptable that the new **13 series dropped the AM tuner. I use that all the time for news broadcasts, during storms especially when the tornado sirens go off.

The bad thing is that the 2112 doesn't have any I/P scaling as does the 1913, but the 1913 dropped the AM tuner, S-video connections, dropped useable inputs, dropped some free internet apps for the crappy SirusXM garbage, and has other take aways. There's a thread with all the additions and take aways, and the take aways far exceeds any additions. Pretty disappointed with Denons AVR-**13 series. On the flip side, the Yamaha RX-V673 looks to be a great receiver although I have had bad luck with the last 3 Yamaha receivers all being defective.

Good luck
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post #7 of 31 Old 05-19-2012, 07:59 AM
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I went back and forth and decided on the 2113ci. I only connect with hdmi so loosing ports didn't matter. Ill go out to the car if i need am. I have Sirius and for me that was more appealing than napster/rhapsody. I really wanted the 2312ci i like the older graphic display but the 2113ci allows separate airplay to zone 2. This will be nice for my patio when people come over.

If you need inputs go with the 2312ci, if you don't I'd recommend the 2113ci.
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post #8 of 31 Old 05-19-2012, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dharvey1221 View Post

I went back and forth and decided on the 2113ci. I only connect with hdmi so loosing ports didn't matter. Ill go out to the car if i need am. I have Sirius and for me that was more appealing than napster/rhapsody. I really wanted the 2312ci i like the older graphic display but the 2113ci allows separate airplay to zone 2. This will be nice for my patio when people come over.

If you need inputs go with the 2312ci, if you don't I'd recommend the 2113ci.

I had XM/Sirius and absolutely hated it. If I want to listen to commercials and talk, I'd listen to FM. I'm not going to pay to get advertised to and hear someone speak.

I much prefer the MC channels and talk free digital audio channels that are available on the internet and cable. I really was pissed when Satellite (Directv) went to XM, stopped listening and went to Comcast (but for sooooo many reasons).

Just did a price match on my AVR-2312ci, so now it was over $80 cheaper than what I could get a AVR-1913. Rock On.
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post #9 of 31 Old 05-19-2012, 02:40 PM
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So you would recommend the 2312 over the 1913?

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post #10 of 31 Old 05-19-2012, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchoolMETAL View Post

I had XM/Sirius and absolutely hated it. If I want to listen to commercials and talk, I'd listen to FM. I'm not going to pay to get advertised to and hear someone speak.

I much prefer the MC channels and talk free digital audio channels that are available on the internet and cable. I really was pissed when Satellite (Directv) went to XM, stopped listening and went to Comcast (but for sooooo many reasons).

Just did a price match on my AVR-2312ci, so now it was over $80 cheaper than what I could get a AVR-1913. Rock On.

Yea I just seen that Vanns is selling it for 498 and I'm SO close to pulling the trigger. That seems like a pretty good deal considering the the 2112 is 440. I'm just not sure how much or if at all I'm gonna miss the video upscaling/converting. I got a 65in 3d Panny that I sit about 10-12ft away but Suddenlink only plays HD in 1080i. I wonder if I'd even be able to tell anything?!?!
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post #11 of 31 Old 05-19-2012, 06:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchoolMETAL View Post

I had XM/Sirius and absolutely hated it. If I want to listen to commercials and talk, I'd listen to FM. I'm not going to pay to get advertised to and hear someone speak.

I much prefer the MC channels and talk free digital audio channels that are available on the internet and cable. I really was pissed when Satellite (Directv) went to XM, stopped listening and went to Comcast (but for sooooo many reasons).

Just did a price match on my AVR-2312ci, so now it was over $80 cheaper than what I could get a AVR-1913. Rock On.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dharvey1221 View Post

I went back and forth and decided on the 2113ci. I only connect with hdmi so loosing ports didn't matter. Ill go out to the car if i need am. I have Sirius and for me that was more appealing than napster/rhapsody. I really wanted the 2312ci i like the older graphic display but the 2113ci allows separate airplay to zone 2. This will be nice for my patio when people come over.

If you need inputs go with the 2312ci, if you don't I'd recommend the 2113ci.

Yea I only connect HDMI too so that's not a big deal for me. I'm liking the front of the XX13 models and they can video upscale/convert. Even though, I've never seen any in person actually do it so I don't know if it will be a big difference or none at all?!
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post #12 of 31 Old 05-19-2012, 06:21 PM - Thread Starter
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I wonder if the xx12 models are capable of using the iphone app? It doesn't say anything on the description but it does with the 13s.
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post #13 of 31 Old 05-19-2012, 08:12 PM
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Yes, the xx12 models can use the iPhone app. At least the ones with Airplay can.

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post #14 of 31 Old 05-19-2012, 08:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UPS Guy View Post

I wonder if the xx12 models are capable of using the iphone app? It doesn't say anything on the description but it does with the 13s.

Yes, it does say, it's one of the main features of the AVR-**12 series. For $60 more, get the AVR-2312ci. You'll have I/P upscaling, more inputs, analog and digital for future gear, and a more powerful, higher current receiver. All for $60!! It's a no brainer.

Quote:
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With the Denon Remote App installed on your iPad, iPhone, or iPod touch, you can perform basic operations, like turning the AVR-2312CI's power on or off, adjusting the volume, and switching sources.

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post #15 of 31 Old 05-19-2012, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Yes, the xx12 models can use the iPhone app. At least the ones with Airplay can.

Alright cool. Help me out. I'm trying to decide on the 2113 or the 2312....there's really not much difference except 100 bucks. In the description it says that the 2113 upscales to 1080p/24, 4k and the 2312 is 1080p/60. What's that mean?!?!?!
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post #16 of 31 Old 05-19-2012, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchoolMETAL View Post

Yes, it does say, it's one of the main features of the AVR-**12 series. For $60 more, get the AVR-2312ci. You'll have I/P upscaling, more inputs, analog and digital for future gear, and a more powerful, higher current receiver. All for $60!! It's a no brainer.

Yea for sure if I'm not gonna get a 2012 model, I'm gonna get the 2312. I typically want the newest item on the market but it seems there is no real BIG difference between last years' and this years' models. I've never owned a receiver and I'm new to the whole home theater setup so I wanna make sure I pick the right one!
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post #17 of 31 Old 05-19-2012, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UPS Guy View Post

Alright cool. Help me out. I'm trying to decide on the 2113 or the 2312....there's really not much difference except 100 bucks. In the description it says that the 2113 upscales to 1080p/24, 4k and the 2312 is 1080p/60. What's that mean?!?!?!

Most movies use 24 frames/second (24Hz) and video uses 30 frames/second (30Hz). NTSC standard broadcast split those 30 frames into 30 odd line (resolution) frames and 30 even lines (resolution) to create 60 fields of 'interlaced' frames or 1080i.

New LCD panels work on 60 Hz and can upscale to 60 Hz or 60 frames/second.

Most Bluray players can scale any 24Hz (24p) movie or 30Hz (30p) movie/video to 60Hz (60p). Bluray movies can have up to 60 frames/second so you can get true 1080p60 with Bluray.

4K is a format that is only guessed at as it doesn't exist yet. Chances are by the time a resolution this high is actually used, the format for it will be different and won't be compatible with our equipment.
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post #18 of 31 Old 05-19-2012, 09:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchoolMETAL View Post

Most movies use 24 frames/second (24Hz) and video uses 30 frames/second (30Hz). NTSC standard broadcast split those 30 frames into 30 odd line (resolution) frames and 30 even lines (resolution) to create 60 fields of 'interlaced' frames or 1080i.

New LCD panels work on 60 Hz and can upscale to 60 Hz or 60 frames/second.

Most Bluray players can scale any 24Hz (24p) movie or 30Hz (30p) movie/video to 60Hz (60p). Bluray movies can have up to 60 frames/second so you can get true 1080p60 with Bluray.

4K is a format that is only guessed at as it doesn't exist yet. Chances are by the time a resolution this high is actually used, the format for it will be different and won't be compatible with our equipment.

Will it make a difference if I have a 600hz plasma?
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post #19 of 31 Old 05-19-2012, 09:29 PM
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To Tampa: Since he never answered, I think EVERYONE'S answer to whether or not the 2312 is better than the 1913 would be a resounding YES. Buying one generation old high end gear is better than buying brand new midrange gear, at least in my opinion..
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post #20 of 31 Old 05-19-2012, 09:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sleepylabone View Post

Since he never answered, I think EVERYONE'S answer to whether or not the 2312 is better than the 1913 would be a resounding YES. Buying one generation old high end gear is better than buying brand new midrange gear, at least in my opinion..

LOL I agree. Thx for the input!
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post #21 of 31 Old 05-19-2012, 09:33 PM
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It's addicting. I've been at it since getting a DVD player in 1997.. then 5.1 dts Receiver, then a progressive DVD player, then blu-ray in 2008 followed by a Denon 889 in 2009.. now it's a 2312. And that's not even mentioning various speaker upgrades.

Speaking of speakers, what's your plan? NM.. first post.

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post #22 of 31 Old 05-19-2012, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tampa Husker View Post

So you would recommend the 2312 over the 1913?

Sorry, some how skipped over your post.

Yes, in a heart beat! In the case of AVR-2313ci, I feel this receiver lost more functions, than it gained over the AVR-2312ci. So the statement is even stronger when comparing against the lower model, AVR-1913, which is 2 steps below the AVR-2313ci. I personally feel Denon fell short on this AVR-**13 model year. Hopefully next year, they'll bring all the features, connections, inputs, and an AM Tuner back. I can't image a receiver with a deleted tuner. With only the FM Tuner left, it's somewhat in-between a Receiver and an Integrated Amp now.
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post #23 of 31 Old 05-19-2012, 09:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

It's addicting. I've been at it since getting a DVD player in 1997.. then 5.1 dts Receiver, then a progressive DVD player, then blu-ray in 2008 followed by a Denon 889 in 2009.. now it's a 2312. And that's not even mentioning various speaker upgrades.

Speaking of speakers, what's your plan?

Oh yes I know! I've been researching for a couple months now after getting a 65" Panny. I just got Polk Monitor 70s and a CS2 center for now. Eventually, I'll be adding some surrounds but this should be a bit of an upgrade from the tv speakers for now. I started off looking at HTIBs and in particular I was close to buying the Onkyo ht-s8409. But, after reading reviews of numerous Onkyo units overheating, that kinda deterred me from getting an Onkyo. Then I read that true floorstanding speakers and the center channel was the most important and I really didn't want tiny little speakers like the one that came with the Onkyo package. Little did I know that the CS2 would be this HUGE! I know my speakers aren't the best by any means but I've always been find with just the tv speakers so I think for what I'm trying to get out of em, they'll be more than enough. Then when I get used to them I'll add some more to get the true surround sound experience. From you experience what would you suggest on surrounds? Should I stay with the Polk line? I though about getting some 50s or 60s for surrounds but thought that might of been overkill. I was gonna put them on the floor so I figured instead of wasting money for floor stands I might as well get the 50s or 60s. Then I thought the surrounds might be better above ear level so I dunno.
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post #24 of 31 Old 05-19-2012, 09:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchoolMETAL View Post

Sorry, some how skipped over your post.

Yes, in a heart beat! In the case of AVR-2313ci, I feel this receiver lost more functions, than it gained over the AVR-2312ci. I personally feel Denon fell short on this AVR-**13 model year. Hopefully next year, they'll bring all the features, connections, inputs, and an AM Tuner back. I can't image a receiver with a deleted tuner. In somewhat in-between a Receiver and an Integrated Amp now.

Don't be sorry. Trust me I appreciated ALL the input your giving me!
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post #25 of 31 Old 05-19-2012, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy2 View Post

It's addicting. I've been at it since getting a DVD player in 1997.. then 5.1 dts Receiver, then a progressive DVD player, then blu-ray in 2008 followed by a Denon 889 in 2009.. now it's a 2312. And that's not even mentioning various speaker upgrades.

Speaking of speakers, what's your plan? NM.. first post.


Hek, I remember buying my First Home Theater receiver, it in 1992 and a Kenwood Dolby Surround Receiver. Not Dolby Prologic but Dolby Surround. It only had the 2 front main channels, and a single rear channel duplicated by 2 speakers. I read all the reviews and shopped for my first none mono VCR, or my first "STEREO" VCR!! Then things progressed to DPL and S-VHS VCR!! Still have a S-VHS VCR and even the $8 S-VHS tapes! Then it went DD 5.1 and a First Generation DIVX (Circuit City Scamming VOD DISC!!!!)/DVD Player. Then a DD 5.1 and DTS 5.1 Receiver and a new DVD Only player . Then just kept upgrading every couple of years with new video players and new surround sound receivers.

Before that HT experience, Stereo only with vintage Analog dial (but Solid State)Kenwood and Scott Receivers along with a lot of cheaper Stereos preceeding them.

A lot of turntables and record players (changers) along the way to. Even tried 8 Track though it sounded as good a singer with mush in his mouth. Almost got my hands on a reel to reel recorder but it fell through.
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post #26 of 31 Old 05-19-2012, 11:05 PM
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Okay well I didn't mention the various VCR's.. Still have one hooked up.

And the HK Stereo that they were connected to starting in the mid-80's.

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post #27 of 31 Old 05-20-2012, 07:23 AM
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The 2312ci was too good of a deal to pass up, so I jumped on Vann's deal. Can't wait for it to arrive, as my 1910 was zapped in a lightning strike just outside our home.

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post #28 of 31 Old 05-20-2012, 07:30 AM
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If you don't need the inputs and 15 watts is not a concern then I would think 2113 would be fine against 2312. I mean both have audessey xt.

As for crappy Sirius, I think it's great! I pay for sat radio because I hate annoying commercials from am/fm and crappy repeats on FM. I like talk and and for me it's been a great service. If I want music only I have an iPhone and iTunes. There's pandora and spotify that can meet your needs.

Analog is out digital is here to stay so I don't see them bringing those inputs back. Again all this depends on your specific needs out of a receiver. Yes no one needs 4k resolution. I didn't need 1.3 hdmi because I would never get 3d. 4 years later got a great deal and well my 987 was now old. So last two years my receiver only used optical in because it couldn't handle 3d.

Sometimes staying current is the way to go. My 2 cents.
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post #29 of 31 Old 05-20-2012, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dharvey1221 View Post

If you don't need the inputs and 15 watts is not a concern then I would think 2113 would be fine against 2312. I mean both have audessey xt.

As for crappy Sirius, I think it's great! I pay for sat radio because I hate annoying commercials from am/fm and crappy repeats on FM. I like talk and and for me it's been a great service. If I want music only I have an iPhone and iTunes. There's pandora and spotify that can meet your needs.

Analog is out digital is here to stay so I don't see them bringing those inputs back. Again all this depends on your specific needs out of a receiver. Yes no one needs 4k resolution. I didn't need 1.3 hdmi because I would never get 3d. 4 years later got a great deal and well my 987 was now old. So last two years my receiver only used optical in because it couldn't handle 3d.

Sometimes staying current is the way to go. My 2 cents.

It's more than 15 Watts. Many don't understand how a current amplifier works or ohms law in finding actual, useable power output.

Even though 8 ohm nominal impedance speaker can be used, those speakers have a varying impedance that follows differing frequencies. It's very common for an 8 ohm nominal impedance speaker to have dips down to 4 ohms.

If an amplifier clips at 150 watts into 4 ohms, it can not play more than 75 watts into 8 ohms to keep the amplifier from clipping (into 4 ohms).

The 4 ohm output is what really dictates how much useable power you have.

The AVR-2311ci has 155 watts @ .1% distortion and 199 watts @ 1% distortion.

The AVR-2112ci has 80 watts @ .1% distortion and 145 watts @ 1% distortion.

A significant difference in power output at 4 ohms. The differences in 8 ohms would be 50% of those to maintain the distortion percentage in 4 ohms and to prevent clipping.

What's not told is the difference in all channels driven as these test only include the 8 ohm results. Judgeing by the AVR-2112ci's diminishing current output for 4 ohm loads, it can only get worse for all channels driven.

Obviously the results were for the AVR-2311ci but not much had changed to the AVR-2312ci except the addition of networking on the 2312.

I guess you get what works better for you. Newer isn't always better especially with cost cutting and budget cuts. The AVR-2312ci is the definite winner as I see it. I can not see the AVR-2313ci as the better model at all. It gains little and loses a lot. For $99, you can get a streaming media box that does pretty much every conceivable service offered. The saving with the AVR-2312ci are much greater than $99.
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post #30 of 31 Old 05-20-2012, 11:54 AM
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Sounds good
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