YPAO subwoofer w3 level error calibration problems - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 05-24-2012, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm using a Yamaha RX-V3900's YPAO to calibrate my room and I get W3 level errors if the volume on the sub is set at 3 and above. This happened with a previous subwoofer I just sold, as well as a brand new one I just got two days ago.

After I ran YPAO with the volume set at 3 on the subwoofer, it says -10dB in the results under subwoofer. If I turn it down to 2, the level error goes away and it's -8.5dB. Between 1 and 2, it's -7.5dB. The subwoofer company customer service told me this was way too low and suggested I experiment by moving the microphone away from the listening position. Doing this game the the same result at 3.

He told me to call Yamaha and thought that the microphone might be giving false readings. The test tones through the subwoofer are NOT loud at all, which makes me think he could be right.

Yamaha was unhelpful, but suggested I run YPAO with the subwoofer disconnected, then re-connect and adjust manually. I guess this is a last resort, but I'm not sure if that means I need to set the crossover on the sub, or if he's just talking about setting the speakers to 80hz and small, which is where they are now.

The subwoofer is in the corner and can't be moved, so I can't experiment with placement. I'm really stuck here. I'd appreciate any suggestions, thanks!
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post #2 of 11 Old 05-24-2012, 09:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone?
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post #3 of 11 Old 05-24-2012, 09:44 PM
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Sounds like either the version of YPAO is corrupt or perhaps a bad mic. I'd just set it manually myself. I don't believe YPAO does any sub eq so all it's doing is setting distance/volume and maybe crossover? Since you don't have a choice of sub location just adjust for the volume/crossover you find pleasing and enjoy...

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post #4 of 11 Old 05-24-2012, 09:50 PM
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You answered your own question..
Apparently the physical position of your subwoofer and its interaction with your room is not compatible with the Yamaha EQ software. And if you are unable to move it the suggestion from Yamaha support is the best advice by disconnecting it. Then set the subwoofer manually, set the subwoofer X-over @ 100Hz and level to about 50%. Next set the subwoofer level in the AVR to 0dB, now you will have to listen to the bass and make a couple of adjustments up or down if the bass level does not meet your expectations.


Just my $0.02..
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post #5 of 11 Old 05-25-2012, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Sounds like either the version of YPAO is corrupt or perhaps a bad mic. I'd just set it manually myself. I don't believe YPAO does any sub eq so all it's doing is setting distance/volume and maybe crossover? Since you don't have a choice of sub location just adjust for the volume/crossover you find pleasing and enjoy...

The version of YPAO I have does eq the sub.

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Originally Posted by M Code View Post

You answered your own question..
Apparently the physical position of your subwoofer and its interaction with your room is not compatible with the Yamaha EQ software. And if you are unable to move it the suggestion from Yamaha support is the best advice by disconnecting it. Then set the subwoofer manually, set the subwoofer X-over @ 100Hz and level to about 50%. Next set the subwoofer level in the AVR to 0dB, now you will have to listen to the bass and make a couple of adjustments up or down if the bass level does not meet your expectations.

As long as I can still adjust my speakers to small and 80Hz in the menu, I might do as you guys suggest. I wish I knew the downside and details of what I will be missing doing it manually.
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post #6 of 11 Old 05-25-2012, 12:05 PM
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The fact remains that you may have some room mode / standing wave issue that calls for moving the sub. You could also try reversing the phase on the sub, but moving it is 1st choice.
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post #7 of 11 Old 05-25-2012, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

The fact remains that you may have some room mode / standing wave issue that calls for moving the sub. You could also try reversing the phase on the sub, but moving it is 1st choice.

Don't phase problems only present themselves when sound from the other speakers cancel out bass from the subwoofer? When the test signal is sent, the other speakers are silent.
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post #8 of 11 Old 05-25-2012, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPowers View Post

Don't phase problems only present themselves when sound from the other speakers cancel out bass from the subwoofer? When the test signal is sent, the other speakers are silent.

No..
When the subwoofer test tone is outputted by the subwoofer, the YPAO microphone is likely picking up a reflected signal that is arriving @ a similar time as the subwoofer native tone signal... The processor doesn't know how to correct or adjust for both signals..

Relocating the subwoofer physically will reduce the reflected signal so the processor can correct/adjust for the single native subwoofer output..


Just my $0.02..
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post #9 of 11 Old 05-25-2012, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

No..
When the subwoofer test tone is outputted by the subwoofer, the YPAO microphone is likely picking up a reflected signal that is arriving @ a similar time as the subwoofer native tone signal... The processor doesn't know how to correct or adjust for both signals..

Relocating the subwoofer physically will reduce the reflected signal so the processor can correct/adjust for the single native subwoofer output..


Just my $0.02..

Best answer in this thread.

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post #10 of 11 Old 05-25-2012, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPowers View Post


The subwoofer is in the corner and can't be moved, so I can't experiment with placement. I'm really stuck here. I'd appreciate any suggestions, thanks!

Guess you need to work on this. Is this WAF or simply no other floor space available? I'm somewhat in the same boat, don't have a lot of choice for mine without making the room fit the sub and I'm not likely to do that (but likely don't need to either, mine seems to work well in the location that works best for me now).

PS Yamaha doesn't make it easy to figure out what YPAO is on what unit or what it actually can do...finally got it by downloading your manual.

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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post #11 of 11 Old 05-26-2012, 10:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

No..
When the subwoofer test tone is outputted by the subwoofer, the YPAO microphone is likely picking up a reflected signal that is arriving @ a similar time as the subwoofer native tone signal... The processor doesn't know how to correct or adjust for both signals.

Good explanation, thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Guess you need to work on this. Is this WAF or simply no other floor space available? I'm somewhat in the same boat, don't have a lot of choice for mine without making the room fit the sub and I'm not likely to do that (but likely don't need to either, mine seems to work well in the location that works best for me now).

PS Yamaha doesn't make it easy to figure out what YPAO is on what unit or what it actually can do...finally got it by downloading your manual.

I had to Google "WAF," lol. I take it it's wife acceptance factor, but the urban dictionary definition could also apply (wack as f**k). It's not a wife problem. There's literally no other place to put it, unless I make it wireless. To the left is a door to the outside porch and to the right is a staircase.
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