YPAO subwoofer w3 level error calibration problems - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 15 Old 05-24-2012, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm using a Yamaha RX-V3900's YPAO to calibrate my room and I get W3 level errors if the volume on the sub is set at 3 and above. This happened with a previous subwoofer I just sold, as well as a brand new one I just got two days ago.

After I ran YPAO with the volume set at 3 on the subwoofer, it says -10dB in the results under subwoofer. If I turn it down to 2, the level error goes away and it's -8.5dB. Between 1 and 2, it's -7.5dB. The subwoofer company customer service told me this was way too low and suggested I experiment by moving the microphone away from the listening position. Doing this game the the same result at 3.

He told me to call Yamaha and thought that the microphone might be giving false readings. The test tones through the subwoofer are NOT loud at all, which makes me think he could be right.

Yamaha was unhelpful, but suggested I run YPAO with the subwoofer disconnected, then re-connect and adjust manually. I guess this is a last resort, but I'm not sure if that means I need to set the crossover on the sub, or if he's just talking about setting the speakers to 80hz and small, which is where they are now.

The subwoofer is in the corner and can't be moved, so I can't experiment with placement. I'm really stuck here. I'd appreciate any suggestions, thanks!
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post #2 of 15 Old 05-24-2012, 09:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Anyone?
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post #3 of 15 Old 05-24-2012, 09:44 PM
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Sounds like either the version of YPAO is corrupt or perhaps a bad mic. I'd just set it manually myself. I don't believe YPAO does any sub eq so all it's doing is setting distance/volume and maybe crossover? Since you don't have a choice of sub location just adjust for the volume/crossover you find pleasing and enjoy...
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post #4 of 15 Old 05-24-2012, 09:50 PM
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You answered your own question..
Apparently the physical position of your subwoofer and its interaction with your room is not compatible with the Yamaha EQ software. And if you are unable to move it the suggestion from Yamaha support is the best advice by disconnecting it. Then set the subwoofer manually, set the subwoofer X-over @ 100Hz and level to about 50%. Next set the subwoofer level in the AVR to 0dB, now you will have to listen to the bass and make a couple of adjustments up or down if the bass level does not meet your expectations.


Just my $0.02..
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post #5 of 15 Old 05-25-2012, 09:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Sounds like either the version of YPAO is corrupt or perhaps a bad mic. I'd just set it manually myself. I don't believe YPAO does any sub eq so all it's doing is setting distance/volume and maybe crossover? Since you don't have a choice of sub location just adjust for the volume/crossover you find pleasing and enjoy...

The version of YPAO I have does eq the sub.

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Originally Posted by M Code View Post

You answered your own question..
Apparently the physical position of your subwoofer and its interaction with your room is not compatible with the Yamaha EQ software. And if you are unable to move it the suggestion from Yamaha support is the best advice by disconnecting it. Then set the subwoofer manually, set the subwoofer X-over @ 100Hz and level to about 50%. Next set the subwoofer level in the AVR to 0dB, now you will have to listen to the bass and make a couple of adjustments up or down if the bass level does not meet your expectations.

As long as I can still adjust my speakers to small and 80Hz in the menu, I might do as you guys suggest. I wish I knew the downside and details of what I will be missing doing it manually.
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post #6 of 15 Old 05-25-2012, 12:05 PM
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The fact remains that you may have some room mode / standing wave issue that calls for moving the sub. You could also try reversing the phase on the sub, but moving it is 1st choice.
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post #7 of 15 Old 05-25-2012, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rdgrimes View Post

The fact remains that you may have some room mode / standing wave issue that calls for moving the sub. You could also try reversing the phase on the sub, but moving it is 1st choice.

Don't phase problems only present themselves when sound from the other speakers cancel out bass from the subwoofer? When the test signal is sent, the other speakers are silent.
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post #8 of 15 Old 05-25-2012, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by JPowers View Post

Don't phase problems only present themselves when sound from the other speakers cancel out bass from the subwoofer? When the test signal is sent, the other speakers are silent.

No..
When the subwoofer test tone is outputted by the subwoofer, the YPAO microphone is likely picking up a reflected signal that is arriving @ a similar time as the subwoofer native tone signal... The processor doesn't know how to correct or adjust for both signals..

Relocating the subwoofer physically will reduce the reflected signal so the processor can correct/adjust for the single native subwoofer output..


Just my $0.02..
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post #9 of 15 Old 05-25-2012, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

No..
When the subwoofer test tone is outputted by the subwoofer, the YPAO microphone is likely picking up a reflected signal that is arriving @ a similar time as the subwoofer native tone signal... The processor doesn't know how to correct or adjust for both signals..

Relocating the subwoofer physically will reduce the reflected signal so the processor can correct/adjust for the single native subwoofer output..


Just my $0.02..

Best answer in this thread.

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post #10 of 15 Old 05-25-2012, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPowers View Post


The subwoofer is in the corner and can't be moved, so I can't experiment with placement. I'm really stuck here. I'd appreciate any suggestions, thanks!

Guess you need to work on this. Is this WAF or simply no other floor space available? I'm somewhat in the same boat, don't have a lot of choice for mine without making the room fit the sub and I'm not likely to do that (but likely don't need to either, mine seems to work well in the location that works best for me now).

PS Yamaha doesn't make it easy to figure out what YPAO is on what unit or what it actually can do...finally got it by downloading your manual.
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post #11 of 15 Old 05-26-2012, 10:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

No..
When the subwoofer test tone is outputted by the subwoofer, the YPAO microphone is likely picking up a reflected signal that is arriving @ a similar time as the subwoofer native tone signal... The processor doesn't know how to correct or adjust for both signals.

Good explanation, thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Guess you need to work on this. Is this WAF or simply no other floor space available? I'm somewhat in the same boat, don't have a lot of choice for mine without making the room fit the sub and I'm not likely to do that (but likely don't need to either, mine seems to work well in the location that works best for me now).

PS Yamaha doesn't make it easy to figure out what YPAO is on what unit or what it actually can do...finally got it by downloading your manual.

I had to Google "WAF," lol. I take it it's wife acceptance factor, but the urban dictionary definition could also apply (wack as f**k). It's not a wife problem. There's literally no other place to put it, unless I make it wireless. To the left is a door to the outside porch and to the right is a staircase.
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post #12 of 15 Old 01-13-2016, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPowers View Post
I'm using a Yamaha RX-V3900's YPAO to calibrate my room and I get W3 level errors if the volume on the sub is set at 3 and above. This happened with a previous subwoofer I just sold, as well as a brand new one I just got two days ago.<br><br>
After I ran YPAO with the volume set at 3 on the subwoofer, it says -10dB in the results under subwoofer. If I turn it down to 2, the level error goes away and it's -8.5dB. Between 1 and 2, it's -7.5dB. The subwoofer company customer service told me this was way too low and suggested I experiment by moving the microphone away from the listening position. Doing this game the the same result at 3.<br><br>
He told me to call Yamaha and thought that the microphone might be giving false readings. The test tones through the subwoofer are NOT loud at all, which makes me think he could be right.<br><br>
Yamaha was unhelpful, but suggested I run YPAO with the subwoofer disconnected, then re-connect and adjust manually. I guess this is a last resort, but I'm not sure if that means I need to set the crossover on the sub, or if he's just talking about setting the speakers to 80hz and small, which is where they are now.<br><br>
The subwoofer is in the corner and can't be moved, so I can't experiment with placement. I'm really stuck here. I'd appreciate any suggestions, thanks!
I recently had a similar problem with a rear firing sub-woofer and the RX-V 677 with manufacture in 2015 and firmware upgrade to 1.7X. I preferred the sub to be located further from the main listening area, so needed to maintain my original placement. After a little research here (and on the Yamaha forums), I decided that standing waves were probably the culprit. I changed the angle of the subwoofer's port and speaker against surrounding objects and the SW-3 error disappeared. If your SW is downfiring, you might try elevating one side an inch or a little more and see if the standing waves are cancelled (pun intended) by the shift of position. I would try shifting all four sides in succession with running the YPAO test in between. Good luck

BTW - when I returned home to my RX-V3000 system, I had a rear surround that sometimes popped out of phase errors even though I was absolutely sure that the wiring was correct. I shifted the position of that rear surround speaker and the out of phase error disappeared there as well. Wave theory learned in high school physics paid big dividends.
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post #13 of 15 Old 01-13-2016, 11:02 AM
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I had the same kind of results with my Yamaha RX-A3030 and HSU Subwoofer. The Yamaha owners manual says "when running YPAO set the volume to half". The HSU manual says "set the Sub volume to nine o'clock". At half I got the W3 level error. I then set it to nine o'clock, got a successful result, then manually set the volume to ten o'clock.
Perhaps you are like me, getting confused with the auto calibration and manual settings. I am far from tweaking my system to it's max. Don't forget, one of the goals is to set the volume of the Sub to match the main speakers.
Hell, I was enjoying my system for a long time before running the YPAO!

Espo77's living room equipment:Yamaha Receiver RX-A3030-Boston Acoustics M350 Tower speakers front left and right-Boston Acoustics M25 center, M25-two for rear surrounds,two for front heights-OPPO BDP-103d-HSU VTF-15H MK2 house shaking Sub-dedicated circuits for A/V-Audio Quest "Pearl" in wall HDMI- Prelude power cord to sub.
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post #14 of 15 Old 01-13-2016, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Espo77 View Post
I had the same kind of results with my Yamaha RX-A3030 and HSU Subwoofer. The Yamaha owners manual says "when running YPAO set the volume to half". The HSU manual says "set the Sub volume to nine o'clock". At half I got the W3 level error. I then set it to nine o'clock, got a successful result, then manually set the volume to ten o'clock.
Perhaps you are like me, getting confused with the auto calibration and manual settings. I am far from tweaking my system to it's max. Don't forget, one of the goals is to set the volume of the Sub to match the main speakers.
Hell, I was enjoying my system for a long time before running the YPAO!
How would the avr owner's manual have any idea where to set a sub's gain? Likewise for the Hsu manual. They're both estimates, you simply need to experiment to see how your gain structure will work during calibration. What kind of sub trim level did you get with running each of these scenarios?
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post #15 of 15 Old 01-13-2016, 10:26 PM
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I'm back to reading the Yamaha manual again...175 pages...
I need to understand how to save manual settings...

Espo77's living room equipment:Yamaha Receiver RX-A3030-Boston Acoustics M350 Tower speakers front left and right-Boston Acoustics M25 center, M25-two for rear surrounds,two for front heights-OPPO BDP-103d-HSU VTF-15H MK2 house shaking Sub-dedicated circuits for A/V-Audio Quest "Pearl" in wall HDMI- Prelude power cord to sub.
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