Denon XX12 and XX13 Receiver comparison - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 05-27-2012, 10:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Anyone has a link where I can compare Denon XX12 and XX13 Receiver.

I tried Denon's site, I saw no options to compare.

I looking for a Denon receiver for a simple one room 5.1 setup, with a Bose ® Acoustimass® 6 Series III speakers.

Thank you.
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post #2 of 17 Old 05-27-2012, 12:09 PM
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Are you in the USA? If yes, you can use Denon USA's "COMPARE" feature by first looking at a particular model, selecting COMPARE and then looking at another model and doing the same thing. You can also look at the first few posts in the Denon XX12 and XX13 threads below ....

XX12 ---> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post20422004

XX13 ---> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post21995236

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post #3 of 17 Old 05-27-2012, 08:59 PM
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2313ci losses vs. 2312ci: (click for link to thread)
* One fewer rear HDMI input (5 instead of 6)
RESPONSE: Loss of HDMI Input or GAME 2 input, which can be assigned to this HDMI or Component video with digital audio. HUGE LOSS, another valueable INPUT that could be used for additional equipment.
* No more iPod "Dock" input with control port (obsoleted by Airplay + USB options)
RESPONSE: This is actually a useable A/V input that can be assigned HDMI, Digital audio, Component video, and has analog audio inputs along with S-Video input. It's a loss of one crucial input that can be used for any music or video source. HUGE NEGATIVE TOWARDS THE AVR-2313CI!
* No more S-video inputs
RESPONSE: Loss of higher grade analog video input is a HUGE loss when the equipment has no component video option.
* Networking drops Rhapsody / Napster support
RESPONSE: Good services dropped, large NEGATIVE.
* New "simplified" remote cannot be programmed to control other devices
RESPONSE: More limited remote, NEGATIVE.
* No more AM radio tuner
RESPONSE: Can't even begin where to start. Loss of local sport radio, loss of local talk radio, loss of reports of school closings, loss of weather (TORNADO) reporting, loss of SO MUCH! HUGE NEGATIVE!!



2313ci gains vs. 2312ci:

* Dual HDMI outputs (parallel, can only output the same source)
RESPONSE: No major loss, most with this mid end receiver will not be using a projection system along with an additional TV. Fluff!
* 4k video scaling
RESPONSE: Support of unknown, guessed format, that will likely be incompatible with the real format when it's engineered!
* AirPlay independent to Zone 2
RESPONSE: Cheaper to buy Apple TV or a separate mini system then wire a home with expensive oxygen free heavy gauge "in-wall" wiring.
* Audyssey DSX
RESPONSE: Another DSP, if you like coloring your audio from neutral. FLUFF.
* SiriusXM and Spotify (coming via firmware update later this summer)
RESPONSE: SiriusXM is as bad as FM radio with talk and commercials. I would never pay to be advertised to.

You lose so much more with the AVR-2313ci for useless features that are fluff or can be added cheaper (with more functionality), than the extra cost of the newer model.

The AVR-2312ci will likely be my last Denon as I will not buy the new garbage they are putting out. There's other makers that keep true to what needed, not fluff and vapor ware over functionality.

My 2 cents.
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post #4 of 17 Old 05-28-2012, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchoolMETAL View Post

You lose so much more with the AVR-2313ci for useless features that are fluff or can be added cheaper (with more functionality), than the extra cost of the newer model.

The AVR-2312ci will likely be my last Denon as I will not buy the new garbage they are putting out. There's other makers that keep true to what needed, not fluff and vapor ware over functionality.

My 2 cents.

Let's hope so. Good luck with another brand (and that brand's threads).
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post #5 of 17 Old 05-28-2012, 08:48 AM
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stuff i want = most important features that could possibly exist...

stuff i don't want = fluff...

see, bfreedma, it's easy to break down feature sets...

edit: although i will admit, i'm not sure where the vaporware is...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #6 of 17 Old 05-28-2012, 10:28 AM
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Quote:


RESPONSE: This is actually a useable A/V input that can be assigned HDMI, Digital audio, Component video, and has analog audio inputs along with S-Video input. It's a loss of one crucial input that can be used for any music or video source. HUGE NEGATIVE TOWARDS THE AVR-2313CI!
* No more S-video inputs
RESPONSE: Loss of higher grade analog video input is a HUGE loss when the equipment has no component video option.

Quote:


The AVR-2312ci will likely be my last Denon as I will not buy the new garbage they are putting out. There's other makers that keep true to what needed, not fluff and vapor ware over functionality.


Man that guy sounds bitter.

I'm sure not a whole lof of people are clamoring for s-video inputs anymore. I guess they were useful when I had a non HD cable or sat receiver but that's been many years.

Afro GT
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post #7 of 17 Old 05-28-2012, 12:08 PM
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I honestly have no real issues with the new Denons. I don't care about losing things like AM radio. Denon includes fabulous room correction in even their entry-level models.

To the OP, I would consider different speakers. No room correction will make Bose Acoustimass sound like great speakers. I would look at Mirage Nanosats, Orb Audio, Aperion, and Energy for small speakers.
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post #8 of 17 Old 05-28-2012, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rnatalli View Post

I honestly have no real issues with the new Denons. I don't care about losing things like AM radio. Denon includes fabulous room correction in even their entry-level models.

To the OP, I would consider different speakers. No room correction will make Bose Acoustimass sound like great speakers. I would look at Mirage Nanosats, Orb Audio, Aperion, and Energy for small speakers.

Thanks! The only reason I kind of like Bose Acoustimas speakers is just because of its sleek look and compactness.

The speakers sets like Mirage Nanosats, Orb Audio, Aperion...I think I will check out this.
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post #9 of 17 Old 05-28-2012, 02:19 PM
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Polk TL2600 package
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-TL2.../ref=pd_cp_e_0


Energy Take Classic 5.0 and s10.3 subwoofer
http://www.amazon.com/Energy-Take-Cl...8236150&sr=1-2

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882269026

Both will outperform the Bose AM6 system. the Energy sub will come on sale for $199-$249 every other week or so.

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post #10 of 17 Old 05-31-2012, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Polk TL2600 package
http://www.amazon.com/Polk-Audio-TL2.../ref=pd_cp_e_0


Energy Take Classic 5.0 and s10.3 subwoofer
http://www.amazon.com/Energy-Take-Cl...8236150&sr=1-2

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16882269026

Both will outperform the Bose AM6 system. the Energy sub will come on sale for $199-$249 every other week or so.

Any site where speakers are compared; I checked Cnet, Energy is rated well, but the looks are not that sharp; people do have high prases of Energy.
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post #11 of 17 Old 06-02-2012, 09:03 PM
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Here's a serious question. I know many keep talking about the 4K resolution pass through and upconversion.

However, as MANY have mentioned, there no established format for 4K as these makers are just guessing.

Has anyone read by a legitimate source what the HDMI version will be and how it will be compatible with these new Receivers that offer their format versions of 4K pass through and upconversion.

Since there's no display devices and no players, yet not even any 4K sources, how will this all be compatible when it's vapor ware right now. Yes vapor where as it's just an idea and nothing else right now.

If there's is some actual real specs, I'd be interested to see them. That is if there is an actual HDMI approved spec.

If there is an HDMI approved Spec that will be the version for 4K resolution, then perhaps these receivers will have use in the future. Then again, who knows, as there might be a completely new connection or HDMI format that also allows other features, just like how 1.4a does. It's not just 3D but a bunch of features and unfortunately, many receivers are not compatible with the 1.4a spec or even stand-alone HDMI switchers.
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post #12 of 17 Old 06-03-2012, 06:35 AM
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^^^

yes, there are actual approved and functional specs for 4k...

however, that does not change my opinion that 4k video processing is nothing but a marketing bulletpoint at this time, and can be safely ignored by virtually everyone...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #13 of 17 Old 06-03-2012, 08:32 AM
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I don't know if the room correction will work with the Bose Acoustimass speaker systems.
All of the AVR speaker outputs connect to the Acoustimass module, which has a crossover and possibly other filters or amplification / attenuation between the AVR and the satellite speakers.
I suppose you could set all speakers to large and give it a shot though.

Regards,
Charlie

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post #14 of 17 Old 06-03-2012, 08:39 AM
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Judging by how poorly USB, HDMI, FireWire, Bluetooth .......
Worked when first introduced, I would not be willing to pay $.01 extra for a 4k compatible AVR at this time.
HDMI is just now barely working adequately and I still see plenty of problems being discussed in regards to it.

Regards,
Charlie

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post #15 of 17 Old 06-03-2012, 12:05 PM
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^^^

not analogous...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #16 of 17 Old 08-29-2012, 08:20 PM
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Well, I actually have the AVR-2313ci and the fact is that I love it. I specifically got it for the dual hdmi output. I'm running a 60" Samsung LED during the week and on the weekends the Optoma HD66 with a 120" Dalite HCCV screen. No hdmi handshake issues with the new Comcast Motorola RNG200N box or any of my other 4 sources. No optical cable runarounds like some have to use with other AVRs having handshake issues. Easy set-up and the sound is spectacular with the Dolby Digital passthrough from the cable box and the DTS-HD Master from the Panasonic Blu-ray all through HDMI. I swear the picture is better than it was straight from the source. I can't imagine a scenario where I'd want to run s-video through this thing...stone age stuff. I highly recommend this unit if you're looking at running two displays.biggrin.gif
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post #17 of 17 Old 08-29-2012, 08:23 PM
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Thanks for the feedback. For more helpful info be sure to review posts #3-6 in the Denon AVR-XX13 Owner's thread linked in my sig as well as posting there if you have any further questions or comments.

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