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post #1 of 16 Old 05-28-2012, 08:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

I have an Adcom GFA6000 amp and matching pre-amp that I haven't used for a while. They were replaced by a Denon AVR-2805 receiver, so I could update the movie/Dolby modes and save some space.

I was told that the new receivers "sound just as good as separates". I thought this was wrong and it was. I have learned to live with the slightly degraded sound coming out of my B&W Matrix 805 speakers. I imagine you could learn to live with being waterboarded eventually also.

The receiver has crapped out and a buying opportunity has arisen.

Do I buy a USED Integra DHC 9.9 pre-amp ($625) to run with the GFA 6000 or do I buy a NEW Anthem MRX300 receiver ($900)? New pieces have a full 3 yr warranty, used comes with a 30 Day warranty. Either piece would be from a highly respected store.

Obviously the Anthem receiver takes less space and is simpler to install, costs $275 more and has a better warranty. I could sell the Adcom amp and probably cover most of the price difference.

Would the Adcom/Integra pair SOUND BETTER enough to be worth the extra wiring and having to move my DVD palyer to make room for two components on my stand, shorter warranty, etc?

Someone on AudioAsylum has recommended the closeout on the Emotiva UMC-1 for $499. I'm just getting back in the game, never heard of Emotiva?

Thanks in advance.

Joe
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post #2 of 16 Old 05-28-2012, 08:50 AM
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If you really wan't to keep the dedicated Adcom amplifier in the system you could always buy an AVR with pre outs and all the bells and whistles you wan't and just use it as a pre amp. It will be much cheaper then buying a new pre amp. It will also be easier to sell or use in another system later on in your house due to it having inboard amps. What ever you do I would stay away from the Emotiva UMC-1. It's full of bugs and problems. It's like buying a nightmare. I'm not sure why anyone would want to do that. Emotiva amps are a good buy. Their processors aren't.
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post #3 of 16 Old 05-28-2012, 09:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the Emotiva feedback, the final sale thing had me concerned.

I guess buying a AVR would work, although I wonder if the AVR would degrade the amps sound. If so, I'd just buy a better AVR and sell the amp to hoipefully make up the difference..
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post #4 of 16 Old 05-28-2012, 09:55 AM - Thread Starter
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By the way, a new preamp isn't in the discussion. It's a used, higher end
pre amp or a new AVR, perhaps the Anthem.

My local store owner (Genesis Audio-Columbus, OH ) seems to feel the Anthem is higher quality and better sound than the price comparable Denon AVR.
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post #5 of 16 Old 05-28-2012, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brwnsfan View Post

Thanks for the Emotiva feedback, the final sale thing had me concerned.

I guess buying a AVR would work, although I wonder if the AVR would degrade the amps sound. If so, I'd just buy a better AVR and sell the amp to hoipefully make up the difference..

No, the AVR should not degrade the dedicated amplifiers sound in any way.
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post #6 of 16 Old 05-28-2012, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brwnsfan View Post

By the way, a new preamp isn't in the discussion. It's a used, higher end
pre amp or a new AVR, perhaps the Anthem.

My local store owner (Genesis Audio-Columbus, OH ) seems to feel the Anthem is higher quality and better sound than the price comparable Denon AVR.

Of course they're going to say that. They're an Anthem dealer. But I wouldn't go with an Anthem AVR for $900. You could get an AVR with pre outs for cheaper and use it as a pre amp. You might be able to use an AVR just fine. This all depends on your speakers and your room dimensions and some other factors. Since you already have the dedicated amp and you like it you might as well use it if that's what you want to do.
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post #7 of 16 Old 05-28-2012, 11:02 AM
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I too have to agree about Emotiva. Great amps, but buggy processors. The Anthem receivers are very good, but you could save a few bucks and go with something like the Onkyo 709. Onkyo receiver preamp sections are very good.
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post #8 of 16 Old 05-28-2012, 11:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the feedback.

The dealer also sells Denon, Integra, Rotel and some other good brands in addition to Anthem. He was selling against his own brand (Denon) when he mentioned the Anthem, and it was $100 less than the Denon.

My speakers are B&W Matrix 805. The smallest speaker in that line, they preceded the Nautilus, but still sound great.

I of course, am not locked in to this store.
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post #9 of 16 Old 05-28-2012, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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So I take it that no one seems to like the used Integra DHC 9.9 preamp to go with the Adcom as a way to go?
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post #10 of 16 Old 05-28-2012, 11:30 AM
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I think you could negotiate a very good price on the Integra pre. You already have a decent amp, so why pay again for what you already have?

Unless you have good reason to think the ARC room correction is worth the price of admission. The MRX series differs in their amp sections and since you felt your previous receiver fell short you should explore this before you go back to a receiver.
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post #11 of 16 Old 05-28-2012, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brwnsfan View Post

Thanks for the feedback.

The dealer also sells Denon, Integra, Rotel and some other good brands in addition to Anthem. He was selling against his own brand (Denon) when he mentioned the Anthem, and it was $100 less than the Denon.

My speakers are B&W Matrix 805. The smallest speaker in that line, they preceded the Nautilus, but still sound great.

I of course, am not locked in to this store.

You got good advice from the dealer. The MRX 300 has preouts and Anthem Room Correction which will outperform those other receivers at or below it's price. Try it without the ext. amp. And if you need it add one. Not all dealers are slimy liars, some give good advice Check out the Amthem MRX thread for users impressions, many of whom came from the models often recommended on this forum. The extra cost is well worth it. BTW, B&W owners have said they work very well with the MRXs.
John

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post #12 of 16 Old 05-28-2012, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moparfan View Post

I think you could negotiate a very good price on the Integra pre. You already have a decent amp, so why pay again for what you already have?

Unless you have good reason to think the ARC room correction is worth the price of admission. The MRX series differs in their amp sections and since you felt your previous receiver fell short you should explore this before you go back to a receiver.

Seems to be a decent price for the Integra preamp so far based on what I've been able to dig up.
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post #13 of 16 Old 05-29-2012, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jayray View Post

You got good advice from the dealer. The MRX 300 has preouts and Anthem Room Correction which will outperform those other receivers at or below it's price. Try it without the ext. amp. And if you need it add one. Not all dealers are slimy liars, some give good adviceCheck out the Amthem MRX thread for users impressions, many of whom came from the models often recommended on this forum. The extra cost is well worth it. BTW, B&W owners have said they work very well with the MRXs.
John

Holy Crap batman!

Yes, I have been out of touch for a long time. Just reading the forum entries on the MRZ thread was almost enough to give me a headache. I'm relatively competent with computers, used to know stereo and home theater well, and am still the guy that people in the neighborhood come to when it's time to hook up a new tv or whatever.

Reading the MRX thread has informed me that there are levels of geekdom that I hadn't in my wildest dream even imagined. Not that it's a bad thing but.....

Do you really have to be an audio engineer before buying an AVR or preamp these days? The amount of tweaking goes way beyond casual use to put it mildly, charting frequency response, seeing if 1080p-24 gets passed through, firmware updates, etc. Is this an Anthem thing or does this level of attention have to be placed on everything?

OK,

So I use an iPad, no laptop, and can't use the iPad on ACR. Therefore the Anthem is out of consideration?

That leaves the used Integra DHC 9.9 or selling the Adcom GFA 6000 and buying an upscale AVR, but hopefully one that you don't have to have an engineering degree to set up.

I assume the Integra preamp would deliver higher quality audio than buying a new AVR and running it as a control unit only? Am I correct or delusional? If it doesn't and the pre section of an AVR is as good, then why the hell do pre amps even exist anymore?

An Onkyo TX-NR 709 has been suggested as that control only AVR and I see an Onkyo Factory Refurb with a year warranty for around $400.

Suggestions?

As always, your comments are appreciated and don't be offended by the geekdom comment, obviously I am a bit of one or I wouldn't even be here myself.
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post #14 of 16 Old 05-29-2012, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brwnsfan View Post


Holy Crap batman!

Yes, I have been out of touch for a long time. Just reading the forum entries on the MRZ thread was almost enough to give me a headache. I'm relatively competent with computers, used to know stereo and home theater well, and am still the guy that people in the neighborhood come to when it's time to hook up a new tv or whatever.

Reading the MRX thread has informed me that there are levels of geekdom that I hadn't in my wildest dream even imagined. Not that it's a bad thing but.....

Do you really have to be an audio engineer before buying an AVR or preamp these days? The amount of tweaking goes way beyond casual use to put it mildly, charting frequency response, seeing if 1080p-24 gets passed through, firmware updates, etc. Is this an Anthem thing or does this level of attention have to be placed on everything?

OK,

So I use an iPad, no laptop, and can't use the iPad on ACR. Therefore the Anthem is out of consideration?

That leaves the used Integra DHC 9.9 or selling the Adcom GFA 6000 and buying an upscale AVR, but hopefully one that you don't have to have an engineering degree to set up.

I assume the Integra preamp would deliver higher quality audio than buying a new AVR and running it as a control unit only? Am I correct or delusional? If it doesn't and the pre section of an AVR is as good, then why the hell do pre amps even exist anymore?

An Onkyo TX-NR 709 has been suggested as that control only AVR and I see an Onkyo Factory Refurb with a year warranty for around $400.

Suggestions?

As always, your comments are appreciated and don't be offended by the geekdom comment, obviously I am a bit of one or I wouldn't even be here myself.

It's not nearly that bad. A cheap notebook will do. Many people with less computer experience than you have tweaked to a point that they now love the sound.
John

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post #15 of 16 Old 05-29-2012, 11:03 AM - Thread Starter
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I guess I could borrow a friends laptop and do the adjustments.

It sounds like the Anthem isn't worth buying if you're not going to utilize the ARC mode, that seems to be waht sets it apart.
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post #16 of 16 Old 05-29-2012, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brwnsfan View Post

I guess I could borrow a friends laptop and do the adjustments.

It sounds like the Anthem isn't worth buying if you're not going to utilize the ARC mode, that seems to be waht sets it apart.

Not using ARC would be a very big mistake. Well worth the modest learning curve. Lots of people on the MRX thread to help with everything.
John

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