Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 112 - AVS Forum
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post #3331 of 9932 Old 12-11-2012, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Marco Giudice View Post

ok lets clear this up... the same exact info would go to each discrete channel no matter if it was dd or lpmc...

Not necessarily. There's no guarantee that the DD (lossy) track is a compressed version of the lossless track, they could have been mixed separately (BHD was released in 2001 so it's possible that they reused the DD track from the DVD). Your sample size isn't big enough to draw any useful conclusions except that you prefer the lossy track to the lossless one on BHD smile.gif.
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post #3332 of 9932 Old 12-11-2012, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by stitch1 View Post

It could be the way your source LPMC is setup. You might need to change a setting in your blu-ray player.
i tried that also. i switch the setting to PCM multi-channel 5.1 back to bitstream then i even tried DTS mode & PCM 2 ch for giggles to see how the avr handles it and that wasnt the answer

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2 CHANNEL MIRAGE HD SPEAKERS USED FOR FW'S
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post #3333 of 9932 Old 12-11-2012, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Giudice View Post

ok lets clear this up... the same exact info would go to each discrete channel no matter if it was dd or lpmc... So lets say if i was at a scence were i should hear people talking behind me while in dd audio. then i switch to lpcm i should hear the same exact mix of audio as i had in dd.... So your saying that it shouldnt be like that. i should hear the same things and detail coming from both dd or lpmc when i switch back and forth.. but the problem is i dont and its not even no where near the same.?
ive tried other pcm- multi-ch audio next to a DD track and the mixing was totally different ... also tried it from different source like my computer and other STB and same results

As bob points out, just because you are switching between tracks on the same disc does not mean that they are the same mix. It is especially true in older releases that they often recycle the DD or DTS track and then do a "new" mix for the lossless track. Of course you aren't going to see new releases using LPCM so this just further indicates that you might simply prefer one mix/track to another.

Also, some people prefer lossy sound to lossless sound. Plenty of people out there who think that 128kbps lossy MP3 sounds fantastic and even "better" than CD if you can believe that.

We should be discussing the technical merits and issues of the AVR versus your personal preference for one format over another one or one track vs. another on the same disc. This thread really isn't the place for that.

If you would like to have a very active discussion of this topic all you have to do is post a thread titled "I like lossy DD 5.1 over LPCM" and you will get plenty of responses.
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post #3334 of 9932 Old 12-11-2012, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

Not necessarily. There's no guarantee that the DD (lossy) track is a compressed version of the lossless track, they could have been mixed separately (BHD was released in 2001 so it's possible that they reused the DD track from the DVD). Your sample size isn't big enough to draw any useful conclusions except that you prefer the lossy track to the lossless one on BHD smile.gif.
lol... i feel you on that! but we can all agree that the audio mix should be exact the same on current releases regardless of the audio format being used.. ? i rather a lossless audio format. that should be a no brainer, but not if the mixing is like crap on a lossless lpcm . Good detailed discret surround sound is key to an awesome experience. if youd be kind enough to maybe try it out for yourself and see what results you come up with when you have time please? i would highly appreciate it

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7 CHANNEL SPEAKERS FROM ONKYO HT-S5400 SERIES HTIB
2 CHANNEL MIRAGE HD SPEAKERS USED FOR FW'S
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post #3335 of 9932 Old 12-11-2012, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

As bob points out, just because you are switching between tracks on the same disc does not mean that they are the same mix. It is especially true in older releases that they often recycle the DD or DTS track and then do a "new" mix for the lossless track. Of course you aren't going to see new releases using LPCM so this just further indicates that you might simply prefer one mix/track to another.
Also, some people prefer lossy sound to lossless sound. Plenty of people out there who think that 128kbps lossy MP3 sounds fantastic and even "better" than CD if you can believe that.
We should be discussing the technical merits and issues of the AVR versus your personal preference for one format over another one or one track vs. another on the same disc. This thread really isn't the place for that.
If you would like to have a very active discussion of this topic all you have to do is post a thread titled "I like lossy DD 5.1 over LPCM" and you will get plenty of responses.
I'm sorry, and i totally agree w/you. i wasn't trying to make it a personal preference topic i was trying to figure out the technical side of the issue. so i do apology if it went off track.. id like to keep it on track and see if anyone comes across the same issue and can verify what i said on anything current... also i hope i didnt give the wrong impression i dont like lossy audio over lossless smile.gif i just think it was the mxing of the audio, is what i meant to say i liked better in the lossy 5.1 over the lossless 5.1 LPCM for that movie.. but lets keep it kosher and on topic..

To all the contributors to my post, thank you very much for your informative information ! that's what makes this site awesome!

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post #3336 of 9932 Old 12-12-2012, 03:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marco Giudice View Post

i got a question. why do people swear Lpmc 5.1 is better then a Dolby/DTS audio format.. i understand one is in its raw form (Lpmc 5.1) and one slightly compressed (Dolby/DTS). With the Expection of Dolby TrueHD or DTS-Master which is a lossless version.. but i was watching Black Hawk Down on Blu-Ray last night. Which has a Lpmc 5.1 audio format and a Dolby Digtal 5.1 audio format also.. So i tried to see for myself, why people rather have a pcm multi-ch audio over DD/DTS.. pcm multi-ch did sound a tad better but its discrete 5.1 surround isnt no where as good as dd or dts does it.. No sound would come out of the surrounds until actions scenes or something big going other then dialouge and then i switch back to DD and the surround channels always had some type of info coming thru the surrounds at all times making the movie experiences 100x better the multi-ch pcm 5.1... i think pcm multi-ch almost ruins the way the surround channels are used compared to DD/DTS.... So why would anyone rather watch or have a movie in Lpcm multi-ch 5.1 audio format over a lossy DD 5.1 which handle the surround sound experience a lot better..
I can see why maybe in music but in movies it ruins the movie exprience does anyone feel the same way here or am i missing something? i think pcm multi-ch sucks at how it uses the surround channels. i would rather use a lossy 5.1 along as it uses the discrete channels the way the director intended

 

LPCM and DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHS are essentially the same thing. One is not compressed and the other is compressed (losslessly).  To say there is a difference between them is like taking a Word document in its .doc form and one that has been compressed and is now in .zip form, and then saying when the .zip document is decompressed, the content of the Word document will be different. It won't.

 

If you are hearing differences in the mix, then something is wrong somewhere.

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post #3337 of 9932 Old 12-12-2012, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

LPCM and DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHS are essentially the same thing. One is not compressed and the other is compressed (losslessly).  To say there is a difference between them is like taking a Word document in its .doc form and one that has been compressed and is now in .zip form, and then saying when the .zip document is decompressed, the content of the Word document will be different. It won't.

If you are hearing differences in the mix, then something is wrong somewhere.
That makes perfect sense, I also like the Analogy that you used, that made even more sense in laymens terms. thank you!

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7 CHANNEL SPEAKERS FROM ONKYO HT-S5400 SERIES HTIB
2 CHANNEL MIRAGE HD SPEAKERS USED FOR FW'S
POLK AUDIO .1 CHANNEL PSW-110 SUB WOOFER
VIZIO 42" E3D420VX 3D/SMART TV
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post #3338 of 9932 Old 12-12-2012, 06:29 AM
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Also, your HTIB speakers may prefer the compressed lossy track. Much like people with low end earbuds playing a 128kbps lossy MP3 think it sounds better than the CD.
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post #3339 of 9932 Old 12-12-2012, 06:44 AM
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I highly doubt speakers of any sort would cause there to be a different mixing output to occur. which is the problem here, not sound quality. but thank you. I'd like to keep this discussion closed, since enough info was brought to my attention to make a informative decision on what to look for and possible solutions. thanks you for lending a hand smile.gif

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7 CHANNEL SPEAKERS FROM ONKYO HT-S5400 SERIES HTIB
2 CHANNEL MIRAGE HD SPEAKERS USED FOR FW'S
POLK AUDIO .1 CHANNEL PSW-110 SUB WOOFER
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post #3340 of 9932 Old 12-12-2012, 10:07 AM
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Hey. Did anyone here happen to have problems connecting 818 to D-Link Gigabit switch (DGS-1008A in my case)? Positive and negative experience would be interesting (with the exact model of the switch).
Mine is not able to 'handshake' the speed and blinking once every few seconds trying to re-handshake.
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post #3341 of 9932 Old 12-12-2012, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

Hey. Did anyone here happen to have problems connecting 818 to D-Link Gigabit switch (DGS-1008A in my case)? Positive and negative experience would be interesting (with the exact model of the switch).
Mine is not able to 'handshake' the speed and blinking once every few seconds trying to re-handshake.

Mine is connected to a DGS-108 and it's working fine. The stuff in the AV stack connects to that switch which is trunked to a larger 24 port gigabit switch that is racked in my basement.
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post #3342 of 9932 Old 12-12-2012, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

Hey. Did anyone here happen to have problems connecting 818 to D-Link Gigabit switch (DGS-1008A in my case)? Positive and negative experience would be interesting (with the exact model of the switch).
Mine is not able to 'handshake' the speed and blinking once every few seconds trying to re-handshake.

Works fine with a DGS-1008G.
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post #3343 of 9932 Old 12-12-2012, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

Hey. Did anyone here happen to have problems connecting 818 to D-Link Gigabit switch (DGS-1008A in my case)? Positive and negative experience would be interesting (with the exact model of the switch).
Mine is not able to 'handshake' the speed and blinking once every few seconds trying to re-handshake.

Try a different cable. Sounds like one of the conductors isn't solid. Could be in the jack, or a break in the cable. Especially if you are using solid core wire as a patch cable [not a good idea, in the long run].
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post #3344 of 9932 Old 12-12-2012, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by dj7675 View Post

Hello,
I am hoping owners here can help. Does the scaler in this receiver do vertical stretch? I have a 2:35 screen/lens setup and would love if the scaler in the receiver had this function to replace my external scaler.
Thanks!
Darin

Anyone know if the internal scaler does vertical stretch for those with anamorpic lens setups? I know the Denon latest model does as well as the model it replaced. I looked over the manual and couldn't tell.

Anyone?

Thanks
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post #3345 of 9932 Old 12-12-2012, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by farkem View Post

Try a different cable. Sounds like one of the conductors isn't solid. Could be in the jack, or a break in the cable. Especially if you are using solid core wire as a patch cable [not a good idea, in the long run].

Ok, I'll check it and also try different cables. But it worked with other 100 Megabit switch before and also with other Gigabit router, but that other router is always delegates 10 megabit for everything that is not gigabit... Crazy stuff biggrin.gif
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post #3346 of 9932 Old 12-12-2012, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

Ok, I'll check it and also try different cables. But it worked with other 100 Megabit switch before and also with other Gigabit router, but that other router is always delegates 10 megabit for everything that is not gigabit... Crazy stuff biggrin.gif

It could also be a bad port on the switch, try another one.
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post #3347 of 9932 Old 12-12-2012, 02:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dj7675 View Post

Anyone know if the internal scaler does vertical stretch for those with anamorpic lens setups? I know the Denon latest model does as well as the model it replaced. I looked over the manual and couldn't tell.
Anyone?
Thanks

You might PM JoeRod. He had nothing but good things to say about the 818 and he did use it with a projector setup.
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Awesome. Thanks.
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post #3349 of 9932 Old 12-12-2012, 02:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

It could also be a bad port on the switch, try another one.

This is the first thing I have tried immediately when it didn't work smile.gif Worked well with all other devices, but with their own cables.
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post #3350 of 9932 Old 12-12-2012, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

LPCM and DTS-HD MA or Dolby TrueHS are essentially the same thing. One is not compressed and the other is compressed (losslessly).  To say there is a difference between them is like taking a Word document in its .doc form and one that has been compressed and is now in .zip form, and then saying when the .zip document is decompressed, the content of the Word document will be different. It won't.

If you are hearing differences in the mix, then something is wrong somewhere.

+1.

But I'll add this:
Depending on the AVR some treat LPCM as a digital direct signal (similar to 7.1 analog inputs) and therefore not provide any post processing.
This could explain any sonic differences if indeed this is happening.
(I don't think the 818 does this however but I don't have one to verify)
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post #3351 of 9932 Old 12-12-2012, 03:24 PM
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Hi everyone!

Just got my 818, hooked up everything and getting too excited to hear how it sounds.. the first question I have is.. I hooked up the front speakers with a pair of tower and then I have a pair of monitor speakers hooked up to the wide. When I play a music CD I can only hear sound coming from the front not wide together.

Can I have both Front and Wide speakers working together when listening to music?

Thanks for advice in advance!

Cheers
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post #3352 of 9932 Old 12-12-2012, 03:53 PM
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After reading this thread, I've decided against buying this AVR. Now, I've got to decide between Denon and Manratz. wink.gif

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post #3353 of 9932 Old 12-12-2012, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by TheeOracle View Post

Hi everyone!

Just got my 818, hooked up everything and getting too excited to hear how it sounds.. the first question I have is.. I hooked up the front speakers with a pair of tower and then I have a pair of monitor speakers hooked up to the wide. When I play a music CD I can only hear sound coming from the front not wide together.

Can I have both Front and Wide speakers working together when listening to music?

Thanks for advice in advance!

Cheers

What sound mode, stereo?

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post #3354 of 9932 Old 12-12-2012, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by cjshaker View Post

Installed my Onkyo TX-NR818 a week ago, and was very happy with it until this morning. Was enjoying playing FLAC files using the Home networking app, was streaming internet radio via Pandora and Spotify, was happy with 12 local FM channels coming in clearly, and it looked and sounded great.
However, when I powered it up this morning, and attempted to select the FM tuner, it kept switching back to Network by itself. And, it did not pass any sound to the speakers. It actually would hang saying 'Wait' when I attempted the Audyssey setup, and it made no sound.
I used the CBL/Sat+Power/Standby reset to reset it to factory configuration. And it then passed the Audyssey setup and the speakers worked.
However, it no longer sees the built in ethernet network interface. It is greyed out in the setup configuration. I updated it twice when I installed it last week. It was working great when I shut it off last night.
Any clues or ideas on what else to try?
Thank you,
Chris Shaker

Just a thought but have you made sure the 818 is the default "playback device"? Right click the sound icon in the task bar on your PC and select "playback devices". I had this problem and had to select it at least 4-5 times over a 2 week period but it has finally remained as the permanent device.

Best regards,
Jeff
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post #3355 of 9932 Old 12-12-2012, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

What sound mode, stereo?


Any mode... I actually realized that my wide speakers(zone 2) do not have any output at all even during the sound test. but the speakers are working fine if I put them to front. Is there any restriction for the wide speakers? Like the receiver would not have enough power to push them thus there is no sound coming out?
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post #3356 of 9932 Old 12-12-2012, 06:31 PM
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Quick question on setting up wireless via USB. The receiver sees my router fine (as well as several neighbors') but after I input my password it shows connecting for a few minutes and then I get a message telling me the connection failed. Can't figure out what I'm doing wrong. Anyone ever successfully resolve this issue?

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post #3357 of 9932 Old 12-12-2012, 08:06 PM
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After setting up audyssey is there anyway to go back to view the results?
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post #3358 of 9932 Old 12-12-2012, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

After reading this thread, I've decided against buying this AVR. Now, I've got to decide between Denon and Manratz. wink.gif

Yes, buy a Manratz wink.gif

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post #3359 of 9932 Old 12-12-2012, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by fahrenheit View Post

True. It might take a very obvious pan before its noticed and even then it could be brushed off as something inconsequential.

If u have it set to pass through without any processing applied it should be fine,

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post #3360 of 9932 Old 12-12-2012, 09:42 PM
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If u have it set to pass through without any processing applied it should be fine,

It should be, but it is not.
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