Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 07:57 AM
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Originally Posted by MrJai View Post

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Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post


If you can remember exactly how something sounded 6 minutes ago then your brain is far better than anyone else's on the planet. Come on now, you were taking about swapping receivers. T

Out of the box?  Now your comparisons have little merit because levels weren't even properly matched.

Not saying you didn't hear what you thought you heard, just that it holds little weight to those actually looking for valid comparisons.

Come on now, you were taking about swapping receivers. There is at least a 20 minute window in between receivers from swapping to running XT32.

You are able to tell right away whether something sounds better or not playing same equipment (BD, movie, settings)
I stand by what I said. You have to have both and try both to understand, until then...

The same comparison I did with my A3000 and 809. It was day and night to me, except on music, I believe the A3000 has better sound, more natural.

But your out of the box comparison is no different than if I gave you two 818s each with different speaker level and distance settings.  They will sound different and you will say one is better than the other, but is it really?  Was it a fair comparison?

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post #722 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by MrJai View Post

Come on now, you were taking about swapping receivers. There is at least a 20 minute window in between receivers from swapping to running XT32.
You are able to tell right away whether something sounds better or not playing same equipment (BD, movie, settings)

No, this methodology doesn't work. It has been shown in many scientific tests that you need to do (double) blind ABX in order to derive conclusive data.

Markus

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post #723 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 08:21 AM
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apologies for the re-post but my posting got eclipsed (and lost and forgotten) by this 3009/818 comparison banter:

I have a mildly annoying issue:

When i switch channels on my direct tv box (which is obviously run through my 818) the screen goes blank on my P60GT50 and a lone floating message box appears and says something to the tune of "no cable signal detected...blah blah blah". One to two seconds later, it IS detected and all returns to normal. This happens about 25% of the time.

I'm relatively certain it is the 818 with the issue and not Direct TV (I mean, it could be Direct TV, but if so I'm not sure how to fix this either) but I'm not sure of the cause and/or solution. Does this ring familiar to anyone and could you please lend me a bit of guidance on this if so?

Thanks guys,
Jason
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post #724 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 08:32 AM
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Yes, theoretically but we don't live in anechoic chambers which is probably the general case Chris is referring to. Ask him for data that proves his claim for subs placed in acoustically small rooms. I've never seen such data from Audyssey but I know my own measurements.
Or, even better, do your own measurements. It's really not that hard.

Why is it so difficult for you to accept the fact, that for folks with dual subs in there HT systems, receivers with MultEQ XT32 and Sub EQ HT are more desirable, than receivers without Sub EQ HT?

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post #725 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 08:35 AM
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I have the same issue when I switch HDMI inputs on the Onkyo, it takes a few seconds to restablish the signal, also if I'm watching a Blu-ray and I go back to the main menu, my Epson PJ goes blank and it takes seconds to get back the image, sometimes i get no signal on the onkyo display. This is kind of anoying!!
Somebody eles has this issue?
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post #726 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by coolcat4843 View Post

Why is it so difficult for you to accept the fact, that for folks with dual subs in there HT systems, receivers with MultEQ XT32 and Sub EQ HT are more desirable, than receivers without Sub EQ HT?

Because there simply is no objective justification. If you would say "I need Sub EQ HT because it makes me feel better" I wouldn't say a word.

Markus

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post #727 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jason370 View Post

apologies for the re-post but my posting got eclipsed (and lost and forgotten) by this 3009/818 comparison banter:

I have a mildly annoying issue:

When i switch channels on my direct tv box (which is obviously run through my 818) the screen goes blank on my P60GT50 and a lone floating message box appears and says something to the tune of "no cable signal detected...blah blah blah". One to two seconds later, it IS detected and all returns to normal. This happens about 25% of the time.

I'm relatively certain it is the 818 with the issue and not Direct TV (I mean, it could be Direct TV, but if so I'm not sure how to fix this either) but I'm not sure of the cause and/or solution. Does this ring familiar to anyone and could you please lend me a bit of guidance on this if so?

Thanks guys,
Jason


My guess is it happens when you change channels that are of different resolution (720p vs 1080i) assuming your DTV box is set to native to pass whatever the channel resolution is.  Can you connect the DTV box to the TV directly via HDMI and see if it is any better? 

 

The issue is the handshake sync happening when there is a resolution change.  You could also try setting your DTV box to output only 1080i or 720p and see if it is any better.  The issue is better/worse of some TVs and equipment.

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post #728 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 08:41 AM
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Yes, theoretically but we don't live in anechoic chambers which is probably the general case Chris is referring to. Ask him for data that proves his claim for subs placed in acoustically small rooms. I've never seen such data from Audyssey but I know my own measurements.
Or, even better, do your own measurements. It's really not that hard.

Why is it so difficult for you to accept the fact, that for folks with dual subs in there HT systems, receivers with MultEQ XT32 and Sub EQ HT are more desirable, than receivers without Sub EQ HT?


I would say that is the case for beginners or those without the tools/time to measure on their own.  For many on this forum that are "geeks" about this stuff it really isn't needed.  I have dual subs, equidistant from the listening position.  I can level match on my own and verify the results with measurements.  SubEQ really has no benefit for me.

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post #729 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by MrJai View Post

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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Did you look at the graphs I had linked in my last post? They very dramatically show why you want to move your subs around. Sub EQ HT won't be able to achieve what sub placement can. It's physically impossible. Don't waste your money.
I don't own a 818 but want to replace my 3008 with it. Just lurking here if people report severe problems.

Yes I did (wonder what XT32 was used, with SubEq or without it doesn't specify) and I wish I could move them around but unfortunately don't have the space for it. I thought you owned 818, anyway you should give it a try, not sure how much sound difference you will hear against 3008 but video processing is superb (it did wonders to my Direct TV signal).

If your subs are in a bad spot your comparison of the two amps is hard for me to use but I appreciate your input.
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post #730 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post


I would say that is the case for beginners or those without the tools/time to measure on their own.  For many on this forum that are "geeks" about this stuff it really isn't needed.  I have dual subs, equidistant from the listening position.  I can level match on my own and verify the results with measurements.  SubEQ really has no benefit for me.

Aligning level and distance isn't even needed, other factors are more important. That said, varying level and delay can be beneficial but aligning both doesn't make the frequency response automatically any better.

Markus

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post #731 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 09:12 AM
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jason,

My pj goes blank with my cable box as well. I just figured it was the cable signal. My brothers does the same & he doesn't have a pj.
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post #732 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 09:16 AM
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Oh has any one encountered this with their 818?

Some times the speakers make a loud quick popping sound with some static? Sometimes if I don't get to the AVR fast enough, it will shut down on its own.

Also I think their is some static on the screen as well. I noticed when I first got the AVR and my wife heard it last night while I was away. ( I told her next time ask if she can touch my AVR first smile.gif)

Any ideas? Because it sounds like something is going to blow (probably not, IDK)
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post #733 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kawie01 View Post

Oh has any one encountered this with their 818?
Some times the speakers make a loud quick popping sound with some static? Sometimes if I don't get to the AVR fast enough, it will shut down on its own.
Also I think their is some static on the screen as well. I noticed when I first got the AVR and my wife heard it last night while I was away. ( I told her next time ask if she can touch my AVR first smile.gif)
Any ideas? Because it sounds like something is going to blow (probably not, IDK)

I have never experienced this. Are you sure you don't have a short on a speaker terminal?
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post #734 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 09:28 AM
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My guess is it happens when you change channels that are of different resolution (720p vs 1080i) assuming your DTV box is set to native to pass whatever the channel resolution is.  Can you connect the DTV box to the TV directly via HDMI and see if it is any better? 

The issue is the handshake sync happening when there is a resolution change.  You could also try setting your DTV box to output only 1080i or 720p and see if it is any better.  The issue is better/worse of some TVs and equipment.
+1,I have the same issue,it is the syncing from one res to the other.
Check your info screen on your source and you will see the res has changed.
Annoying for sure but not a bug.
HDMI is still in infancy stages.
Had the same issue with my substitute for a barbecue grill 807.
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post #735 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by kawie01 View Post

Oh has any one encountered this with their 818?
Some times the speakers make a loud quick popping sound with some static? Sometimes if I don't get to the AVR fast enough, it will shut down on its own.
Also I think their is some static on the screen as well. I noticed when I first got the AVR and my wife heard it last night while I was away. ( I told her next time ask if she can touch my AVR first smile.gif)
Any ideas? Because it sounds like something is going to blow (probably not, IDK)
I would check speaker connections first.If they are good to go I would contact customer support.
I had a denon 4311 that I reutrned with the same issue.Upon initial turn on a loud pop would come through the speakers.
When I tried to run audessey it could not detect my surround speakers.
I had the unit one day and returned for a full refund.
BTW,the 818 has far better video processing than the denon.
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post #736 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by sixtytooneratio View Post

+1,I have the same issue,it is the syncing from one res to the other.
Check your info screen on your source and you will see the res has changed.
Annoying for sure but not a bug.
HDMI is still in infancy stages.
Had the same issue with my substitute for a barbecue grill 807.

I'd love to find a way to speed this process up. It really should be much faster on this handshake.
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post #737 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 09:54 AM
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BBQ grill 807, that's funny. I know what you mean.
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post #738 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jason370 View Post

apologies for the re-post but my posting got eclipsed (and lost and forgotten) by this 3009/818 comparison banter:
I have a mildly annoying issue:
When i switch channels on my direct tv box (which is obviously run through my 818) the screen goes blank on my P60GT50 and a lone floating message box appears and says something to the tune of "no cable signal detected...blah blah blah". One to two seconds later, it IS detected and all returns to normal. This happens about 25% of the time.
I'm relatively certain it is the 818 with the issue and not Direct TV (I mean, it could be Direct TV, but if so I'm not sure how to fix this either) but I'm not sure of the cause and/or solution. Does this ring familiar to anyone and could you please lend me a bit of guidance on this if so?
Thanks guys,
Jason

I'm in the exact same boat Jason. 818 and P60GT50 with Directv. I get those messages all the time. Also when switching to other sources such as AppleTV or PS3. Part of me wonders if the 818 is taking a little time to preview the audio and video before sending it along to the TV. (In order for it to decide what to do with upscaling, how to process the audio with Audyssey, etc?). Or perhaps the P60GT50 is a little needy for handshake. If it loses it for fraction of a second it starts with the "No Signal. Be sure the blah blah blah"...

It's annoying but not a deal breaker. Love both devices otherwise (818 and P60GT50).

What firmware are you on? I have resisted the latest update because I don't want to run the Audyssey setup again for the 4th time! Still on 1070-4100-0000-0000.

Rich
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post #739 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by jason370 View Post

apologies for the re-post but my posting got eclipsed (and lost and forgotten) by this 3009/818 comparison banter:
I have a mildly annoying issue:
When i switch channels on my direct tv box (which is obviously run through my 818) the screen goes blank on my P60GT50 and a lone floating message box appears and says something to the tune of "no cable signal detected...blah blah blah". One to two seconds later, it IS detected and all returns to normal. This happens about 25% of the time.
I'm relatively certain it is the 818 with the issue and not Direct TV (I mean, it could be Direct TV, but if so I'm not sure how to fix this either) but I'm not sure of the cause and/or solution. Does this ring familiar to anyone and could you please lend me a bit of guidance on this if so?
Thanks guys,
Jason
Nope, the problem is DirecTV. I get the same message with my Denon-5308 and DLP display in my main HT. DirecTV is causing problems across the board and there doesn't seem to be any solution for it as it's been going on for several months.
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post #740 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by RichM1234 View Post

I'm in the exact same boat Jason. 818 and P60GT50 with Directv. I get those messages all the time. Also when switching to other sources such as AppleTV or PS3. Part of me wonders if the 818 is taking a little time to preview the audio and video before sending it along to the TV. (In order for it to decide what to do with upscaling, how to process the audio with Audyssey, etc?). Or perhaps the P60GT50 is a little needy for handshake. If it loses it for fraction of a second it starts with the "No Signal. Be sure the blah blah blah"...
It's annoying but not a deal breaker. Love both devices otherwise (818 and P60GT50).
What firmware are you on? I have resisted the latest update because I don't want to run the Audyssey setup again for the 4th time! Still on 1070-4100-0000-0000.
Rich
It's not the 818 as DirecTV is having handshake issues with different receiver manufacturers.
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post #741 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Because there simply is no objective justification. If you would say "I need Sub EQ HT because it makes me feel better" I wouldn't say a word.

I am also on the fence for an 818 upgrade. Thought my first choice would be a Denon 4311ci, unfortunately here in Canada that model is priced at MSRP these days. mad.gif Since I am already using REW to smooth the bass response in my room (2 subs), am I to understand that I could safely ignore the lack of sub eq ht, and not feel I was missing anything? Anyone moved from YPAO to XT32, and cares to share their findings? Also keeping an eye on the 3009 (xt32 and sub eq), but we are talking quite a bit more money.
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post #742 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 10:53 AM
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I am also on the fence for an 818 upgrade. Thought my first choice would be a Denon 4311ci, unfortunately here in Canada that model is priced at MSRP these days. mad.gif Since I am already using REW to smooth the bass response in my room (2 subs), am I to understand that I could safely ignore the lack of sub eq ht, and not feel I was missing anything? Anyone moved from YPAO to XT32, and cares to share their findings? Also keeping an eye on the 3009 (xt32 and sub eq), but we are talking quite a bit more money.

How many subs do you have? XT32 does a wonderful job in smoothing out the frequency response IF the starting situation allows for effective equalization (low seat to seat variance, good minimum phase behavior). This is dual subs plus right main at 8 mic positions before equalization:

310

...after equalization:

310

YPAO can't do that.
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post #743 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 11:01 AM
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Since we are talking about subs, I have 3 subs (all same) . 2 at front & one back left corner. I have all three at same level with SPL meter. I have one front & the back connected with a Y-splitter. The 3rd sub directly to back of 818.

My question(s) are:

1.) Does anyone know if it would be better to Y-split the front two and have the rear directly connected to the 818?
2.) Do you know better placement? (I know depends on room, etc. but if you have 3 whats your setup? Suggestion?)
3.) Does it matter how I Y-split them?

You maybe asking:
Why dont I try it & listen for myself. I dont have the desire to get under the house (crawl space) for the ? time.
Why did I set it up that way? Cord length.
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post #744 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by kawie01 View Post

Since we are talking about subs, I have 3 subs (all same) . 2 at front & one back left corner. I have all three at same level with SPL meter. I have one front & the back connected with a Y-splitter. The 3rd sub directly to back of 818.
My question(s) are:
1.) Does anyone know if it would be better to Y-split the front two and have the rear directly connected to the 818?
2.) Do you know better placement? (I know depends on room, etc. but if you have 3 whats your setup? Suggestion?)
3.) Does it matter how I Y-split them?
You maybe asking:
Why dont I try it & listen for myself. I dont have the desire to get under the house (crawl space) for the ? time.
Why did I set it up that way? Cord length.

It doesn't matter how you Y-split your subs. They all get the same signal. Y-splitting will of course reduce the signal level going to the subs.

If you don't measure, you will get good results only by accident. That said I would try putting one sub in a front corner, the second sub along a side wall and the third sub as far away as possible from the others. Elevating one of the subs is probably a good idea too.
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post #745 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 12:01 PM
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Here's the e-mail response to my query I got from Chris over at Audyssey.com, about the 3009 with Sub EQ HT and the 818 without Sub EQ HT:
Hi Tim, the 3009 will theoretically give you better performance because of SubEQ HT. I say "theoretically" because I don't know the exact acoustical problems of your room and the placement of your subs. In general, two subs are blended much better when you run SubEQ HT. We found in our research that if you ping each sub separately to find their relative distance and level differences and then ping them as one (after they have been time and level aligned) will give you much smoother bass response.

Greetings,

I have both the 818 and PR-SC5508 AVP. I ran Audyssey using the same 8 mic positions in my 7.2 channel reference system. There is a perceivable difference in the tactility and richness of the bass . My 5508 went in for service so I obtained an 818 to stand in. After seting up the 818 the first thing I noticed was a discernible decrease in what I would call "skin tingling" bass with reference digital movie soundtracks and high resolution multi-channel music. That isn't to suggest poor quality bass but it doesn't hit as hard or feel as refined with the 818 versus the 5508.

The 818 really is a startlingly good piece especially for the money. It has found a home in my living room system but isn't what I would choose as a replacement for my 5508.

Regards,
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post #746 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 01:05 PM
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I have two subs (svs sb12-nsd) and RX-A1000 receiver. Impressive what xt32 did there... So the subs response does get equalized, even without sub eq hd? confused.gif
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post #747 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert Crawford View Post

Nope, the problem is DirecTV. I get the same message with my Denon-5308 and DLP display in my main HT. DirecTV is causing problems across the board and there doesn't seem to be any solution for it as it's been going on for several months.

has anyone tried plugging direct tv directly into their tv to see if the issue also happens? what about passing through the video to the tv? i just got off the phone with onkyo support and they offered a ton of solutions, none of which considered that the issue might not be from the 818.

Jason
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post #748 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by BarracudaDelGato View Post

I have two subs (svs sb12-nsd) and RX-A1000 receiver. Impressive what xt32 did there... So the subs response does get equalized, even without sub eq hd? confused.gif

Of course. "Sub EQ HT" is nothing special, just a fancy marketing word for aligning level and delay of a second sub. After that step XT32 EQs all subs as one.
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post #749 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarracudaDelGato View Post

I have two subs (svs sb12-nsd) and RX-A1000 receiver. Impressive what xt32 did there... So the subs response does get equalized, even without sub eq hd? confused.gif

Of course. "Sub EQ HT" is nothing special, just a fancy marketing word for aligning level and delay of a second sub. After that step XT32 EQs all subs as one.

Aah... Thanks for explaining this. smile.gif

I don't think my Yamaha run any sub equalization. I came to think (wrongly) you needed "sub eq" in order to have that.
818 just got a lot more interesting for me.biggrin.gif
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post #750 of 9977 Old 06-25-2012, 01:59 PM
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818 just got a lot more interesting for me.biggrin.gif

For me too. By the way, even the lower models could be loaded with XT32 but AVR makers refuse to, simply for marketing reasons. It's a bad world.

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