Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 265 - AVS Forum
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post #7921 of 10078 Old 09-18-2013, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post
 
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Originally Posted by migraine24-7 View Post

You're absolutely correct. Anything out in 4K right now wasn't recorded in 4K. It's like when they went back and added 3D effects to movies that were recorded in 2D. Or old movies that can now be bought on Bluray. It's not true 4K. For "true" 4K, Tv shows, sporting events and movies must first be shot with 4K cameras. Then your tv provider will have to offer a 4K channel and receiver, just like the switch from SD to HD. You will need new cabling. A lot and I mean ALOT will go into a true 4K switch over. And it's not happening in the next couple yrs. I'd be surprised if we had "true" 4K channels in 5yrs. IMO

Nobody is talking about channels offering 4k content, i know that is a long time away, what im talking about is 4K BLURAYS, which will start releasing in 2014 for sure, and im talking 4k content that was shot in 4k, not unconverted stuff..

 

Most movies are still shot on 35mm film which has a much higher resolution than 4K. Most of the movies shot with digital cameras are shot in 4K now, so it wouldn't be difficult for studios to release 4K discs - but with very few 4K displays and no 4K native BD players out there I guess they have no incentive at this time. It may be some time before they do ;)

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post #7922 of 10078 Old 09-18-2013, 06:26 AM
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Originally Posted by freeride View Post

Wait a sec...if you are removing feet to make it fit, how much space are you leaving on the sides and on the top? The instructions say you need this (and this assumes the feet are intact):

Leave 20 cm (8") of free space at the top and sides and
10 cm (4") at the rear. The rear edge of the shelf or
board above the apparatus shall be set 10 cm (4") away
from the rear panel or wall, creating a flue-like gap for
warm air to escape.


I don't think I have that much space, but I've got 3.5" on all three sides, and an open back, 8" from the wall. I also have it sitting on 1" pads, plus the feet. Without adequate ventilation, you might damage the unit, which might explain why the HDMI board died on the old Onkyo.

Ummmm...that would have absolutely ZERO to do with his HDMI crapping out on his 809. Onkyo's board design has been faulty for 4 years...The heat thing is complete rubbish.
I am certain it has not helped in any way...But there is a reason that Onkyo had to offer out of warranty repairs and replacements.

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post #7923 of 10078 Old 09-18-2013, 06:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin g. View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by freeride View Post

Wait a sec...if you are removing feet to make it fit, how much space are you leaving on the sides and on the top? The instructions say you need this (and this assumes the feet are intact):

Leave 20 cm (8") of free space at the top and sides and
10 cm (4") at the rear. The rear edge of the shelf or
board above the apparatus shall be set 10 cm (4") away
from the rear panel or wall, creating a flue-like gap for
warm air to escape.


I don't think I have that much space, but I've got 3.5" on all three sides, and an open back, 8" from the wall. I also have it sitting on 1" pads, plus the feet. Without adequate ventilation, you might damage the unit, which might explain why the HDMI board died on the old Onkyo.

Ummmm...that would have absolutely ZERO to do with his HDMI crapping out on his 809. Onkyo's board design has been faulty for 4 years...The heat thing is complete rubbish.
I am certain it has not helped in any way...But there is a reason that Onkyo had to offer out of warranty repairs and replacements.

 

I think you are right - but excessive heat is the enemy of electronics so it is a good idea to use in a well ventilated area. Many use PC fans on top of their units to extract the hot air more efficiently (me included).  I think it is essential to follow Onkyo's own instructions too - if they say it needs 8 inches of free space, giving it less is just asking for trouble. 

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post #7924 of 10078 Old 09-18-2013, 07:31 AM
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Agreed on the heat being the enemy of electronics. BUT I don't believe Onkyo's BS that they are spewing. And, after owning the 807, I can certainly see why Onkyo owners would use a fan to supplement cooling. I had adequate space on my 807, it was in a temperature/humidity controlled basement environment (read: cooler, to begin with, AND central air)...it still died outside warranty...conveniently at the two year mark...the same time most of the failures were occurring.

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post #7925 of 10078 Old 09-18-2013, 08:03 AM
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I just got my 818 and i test it out just with two speakers since i am moving to the new house this friday....

my first impressions is that Damm...this thing is BIG...

So far so good with just what i have tried.... i am waiting until this weekend to hook it to the hole house system and test it and run the audisey thing... i will keep you posted...
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post #7926 of 10078 Old 09-18-2013, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by kevin g. View Post

Agreed on the heat being the enemy of electronics. BUT I don't believe Onkyo's BS that they are spewing. And, after owning the 807, I can certainly see why Onkyo owners would use a fan to supplement cooling. I had adequate space on my 807, it was in a temperature/humidity controlled basement environment (read: cooler, to begin with, AND central air)...it still died outside warranty...conveniently at the two year mark...the same time most of the failures were occurring.

 

Yes, all affected units failed around the 2 year mark. I haven't heard Onkyo "spewing [any] BS" - in fact I have not heard of any official line from Onkyo other than they will replace the boards even if outside the warranty period.

 

The whole episode is very unfortunate for Onkyo and its customers. Because the problems didn't show up for 2 years, the next TWO series of units were already on the street before the HDMI board issue came to light. To the casual or ill-informed observer, this made it look as though Onkyo had put out THREE series of units all with the same, known fault. Of course, this is not true as there was no way for Onkyo to know of the problem until it surfaced, two years on. Onkyo did immediately acknowledge the problem and offered all affected customers a free repair even when out of warranty. I can't see what more Onkyo could have done.

 

We also have no way of knowing if ALL the series xx07, xx08, xx09 were affected or if it was just units using a particular board, supplied by a particular manufacturer. We also have no way of knowing if Onkyo outsource HDMI boards to one supplier, or multiple suppliers. And we have no way of knowing, whichever of the two hypotheses is correct, if ALL boards from that source were affected or only some of them.  Onkyo is the biggest manufacturer of AVRs in the world but we only know of people with problems, because they are the people who come onto these forums to seek advice and help. People whose units are functioning perfectly rarely visit forums to say so. 

 

FWIW I owned a 5007 and that exhibited no problems at all. I eventually sold that unit and bought the 5509 prepro. This will be two years old in November, so naturally I have my fingers crossed that not all units have been affected. 

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post #7927 of 10078 Old 09-18-2013, 08:51 AM
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Kelvin I donor agree with you about your idea. I owned tn nr1007 for more than 3 years an Onkyo replaced it free of charge. Who in his right mind will internationally make a flawed product and replace it again when it is out of warranty. Though there has been bad publicity about the HDMI problem, Onkyo is doing their best. I now own 818 with additional 5years warranty without a penny. I love it though the 1007 was punchy in sound but the extra features in 818 and a 5 year peace of mind with no penny from my pocket is a good sign of breadth.

I like Denon, pioneer and Yamaha but gave it, can you get all these functions in 818 on these models at these price?
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post #7928 of 10078 Old 09-18-2013, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Yes, all affected units failed around the 2 year mark. I haven't heard Onkyo "spewing [any] BS" - in fact I have not heard of any official line from Onkyo other than they will replace the boards even if outside the warranty period.



The whole episode is very unfortunate for Onkyo and its customers. Because the problems didn't show up for 2 years, the next TWO series of units were already on the street before the HDMI board issue came to light. To the casual or ill-informed observer, this made it look as though Onkyo had put out THREE series of units all with the same, known fault. Of course, this is not true as there was no way for Onkyo to know of the problem until it surfaced, two years on. Onkyo did immediately acknowledge the problem and offered all affected customers a free repair even when out of warranty. I can't see what more Onkyo could have done.



We also have no way of knowing if ALL the series xx07, xx08, xx09 were affected or if it was just units using a particular board, supplied by a particular manufacturer. We also have no way of knowing if Onkyo outsource HDMI boards to one supplier, or multiple suppliers. And we have no way of knowing, whichever of the two hypotheses is correct, if ALL boards from that source were affected or only some of them. Onkyo is the biggest manufacturer of AVRs in the world but we only know of people with problems, because they are the people who come onto these forums to seek advice and help. People whose units are functioning perfectly rarely visit forums to say so.



FWIW I owned a 5007 and that exhibited no problems at all. I eventually sold that unit and bought the 5509 prepro. This will be two years old in November, so naturally I have my fingers crossed that not all units have been affected.

I agree with most of your post...However, the BS I was referring to, is from onkyo themselves...there may have never been "official" documentation, regarding the heat generated, but one of the first things the "techs" asked when you got them on the phone (after: 'did you try a manual reset?", and "did you unplug the unit for 30 seconds?"), was: "does the unit have adequate ventilation?"
Don't get me wrong here, the 818 is hands down the best receiver I have seen in my 30 years as an enthusiast...
BUT Onkyo's "Tech Support" is sub par...and their "Customer Service" is abysmal...(until very recently). So much so, that I had started a case with the BBB...(to no avail), over my 807, which was a lemon from day one.

Quote:
Kelvin I donor agree with you about your idea. I owned tn nr1007 for more than 3 years an Onkyo replaced it free of charge. Who in his right mind will internationally make a flawed product and replace it again when it is out of warranty. Though there has been bad publicity about the HDMI problem, Onkyo is doing their best. I now own 818 with additional 5years warranty without a penny. I love it though the 1007 was punchy in sound but the extra features in 818 and a 5 year peace of mind with no penny from my pocket is a good sign of breadth.

I like Denon, pioneer and Yamaha but gave it, can you get all these functions in 818 on these models at these price?

I never said they intentionally made a "flawed product"... but the response after the fact was not in keeping with good business OR good customer service. (until they were forced into a resolution.)
Again, why did you get a replacement with a 5 year warranty? And I had to fight tooth and nail, for two years to get a refurb with zero warranty...(unless I wanted to pay for one)? Where is the logic? There should be ONE standard...

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post #7929 of 10078 Old 09-18-2013, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by kevin g. View Post

I agree with most of your post...However, the BS I was referring to, is from onkyo themselves...there may have never been "official" documentation, regarding the heat generated, but one of the first things the "techs" asked when you got them on the phone (after: 'did you try a manual reset?", and "did you unplug the unit for 30 seconds?"), was: "does the unit have adequate ventilation?"
Don't get me wrong here, the 818 is hands down the best receiver I have seen in my 30 years as an enthusiast...
BUT Onkyo's "Tech Support" is sub par...and their "Customer Service" is abysmal...(until very recently). So much so, that I had started a case with the BBB...(to no avail), over my 807, which was a lemon from day one.

 

I'm sorry you have had so many problems.  The manual reset and unplugging for 30 seconds are standard trouble-shooting procedures, so I'd expect Tech Support to go through them really. As for asking if had adequate ventilation, I can see where they are coming from - if someone operates the unit, deliberately ignoring instructions in the manual wrt to ventilation, I think Onkyo have a right to know that.  It may still be partly related to excessive heat - I have never known a unit get so hot as my 5007 used to get, before I installed the fans. After a 2 hour movie at close to Reference, you literally could not hold your hand on the top right corner of the unit. 

 

Of course, tech support and customer service from most manufacturers is pretty poor, I agree. That's why these forums get way more traffic than the manufacturers official forums (where they have one). But that is an industry-wide issue not just an Onkyo issue IME.  I think the important thing here is that Onkyo stepped up to the plate by extending the warranty time for this issue - once the problem was 'out there' I can't see really what else they could have done. 

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post #7930 of 10078 Old 09-18-2013, 09:55 AM
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I'm new to the forum since the 818 is my first Onkyo, so I don't know about historical issues, but the first series of XBox 360s were dying from the same issue. Excessive heating and cooling cycles contract and expand the solder connections and components until they fail. It takes time for the failure to occur, which is why MS extended their warranty program as well. I can easily imagine how Onkyo components would die after two years of these types of heating and cooling cycles, if they weren't adequately engineered to compensate for them.

In short, always provide your unit the proper clearance needed for cooling. Heat is your electronics' enemy.

bkreger...you need a new rack, or just put your 818 on the floor (on a hard surface, not sunk into the carpet).

My priorities? Each one of my speakers weighs more than my VT60.
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post #7931 of 10078 Old 09-18-2013, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by migraine24-7 View Post

You're absolutely correct. Anything out in 4K right now wasn't recorded in 4K. It's like when they went back and added 3D effects to movies that were recorded in 2D. Or old movies that can now be bought on Bluray. It's not true 4K. For "true" 4K, Tv shows, sporting events and movies must first be shot with 4K cameras. Then your tv provider will have to offer a 4K channel and receiver, just like the switch from SD to HD. You will need new cabling. A lot and I mean ALOT will go into a true 4K switch over. And it's not happening in the next couple yrs. I'd be surprised if we had "true" 4K channels in 5yrs. IMO

Nobody is talking about channels offering 4k content, i know that is a long time away, what im talking about is 4K BLURAYS, which will start releasing in 2014 for sure, and im talking 4k content that was shot in 4k, not unconverted stuff..

I'd like a list of 4K blurays? And if you can afford a 4K bluray player and tv then the 818 will be the cheapest component you have. So you have nothing to be really worried about. I'll buy your 818 when you need to upgrade. Just PM when your ready to sell. Thanks biggrin.gif

GO BLUE
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post #7932 of 10078 Old 09-18-2013, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by freeride View Post

I'm new to the forum since the 818 is my first Onkyo, so I don't know about historical issues, but the first series of XBox 360s were dying from the same issue. Excessive heating and cooling cycles contract and expand the solder connections and components until they fail. It takes time for the failure to occur, which is why MS extended their warranty program as well. I can easily imagine how Onkyo components would die after two years of these types of heating and cooling cycles, if they weren't adequate engineered to compensate for them.

In short, always provide your unit the proper clearance needed for cooling. Heat is your electronics' enemy.

bkreger...you need a new rack, or just put your 818 on the floor (on a hard surface, not sunk into the carpet).
When I bought my AV I also bought an Onyko CD player that I've never had out because I felt I'd suffocate the AV. Need a rack for it.

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post #7933 of 10078 Old 09-18-2013, 10:48 AM
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Thanks. I think I'm going to mount my TV on the wall, and put the receiver on the top of the shelf.
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post #7934 of 10078 Old 09-18-2013, 11:12 AM
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Thanks. I think I'm going to mount my TV on the wall, and put the receiver on the top of the shelf.
Now that's a great idea.

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post #7935 of 10078 Old 09-18-2013, 01:51 PM
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Kevin g sorry to hear that. For me I had less problem when I took it for repairs. I was tol to take it to my dealership after everything have been confirmed for a replacement. I had a new one from the dealer which carries a 2 year warranty and since the 818 was lower than the price I bought the 1007, I was offered and extended warranty hence the 5 year warranty. I don't know about US but here in UK people have got 1008 for 1007, 809 for 807 and also have heard a lot of out of warranty repairs. Anyway, things may be different between US and EU customer (Onkyo) service. As far as I'm concerned, I was happy with the service though it took over a month for my new replacement.

Good Luck
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post #7936 of 10078 Old 09-18-2013, 02:45 PM
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I have first hand experience of a failed Onkyo product (TX-SR876 which had 2 HDMI boards and a DAC board over 4 years despite being regularly dusted and located on a dedicated shelf for cooling).

To echo amosust's comments, the customer service from Onkyo UK in my case was truly excellent!

When I contacted UK support, they took immediate action and were very concerned that I was an unhappy customer. Despite being several years out of warranty, they inspected my AVR and were willing to repair or replace it FOC. I was quite frankly amazed by their attitude as I am only an end user. It is very frustrating when a product fails outside of its warranty. If there is a history of failures then the manufacturer should step up and do what they can to help, some will help others aren't interested. Onkyo did all they possibly could to restore my faith in their products. As i'm now posting on this owner's thread you can guess what my outcome was. biggrin.gif
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post #7937 of 10078 Old 09-18-2013, 02:48 PM
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I have first hand experience of a failed Onkyo product (TX-SR876 which had 2 HDMI boards and a DAC board over 4 years despite being regularly dusted and located on a dedicated shelf for cooling).

To echo amosust's comments, the customer service from Onkyo UK in my case was truly excellent!

When I contacted UK support, they took immediate action and were very concerned that I was an unhappy customer. Despite being several years out of warranty, they inspected my AVR and were willing to repair or replace it FOC. I was quite frankly amazed by their attitude as I am only an end user. It is very frustrating when a product fails outside of its warranty. If there is a history of failures then the manufacturer should step up and do what they can to help, some will help others aren't interested. Onkyo did all they possibly could to restore my faith in their products. As i'm now posting on this owner's thread you can guess what my outcome was. biggrin.gif

 

Do you have a number for Onkyo UK support?  

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post #7938 of 10078 Old 09-18-2013, 02:52 PM
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Do you have a number for Onkyo UK support?  

+49-(0)8142-4208-11
Monday-Friday 10:00-17:00 (CET)

or live chat, email, carrier pigeon, etc.
http://www.uk.onkyo.com/en/support-273.html

My priorities? Each one of my speakers weighs more than my VT60.
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post #7939 of 10078 Old 09-18-2013, 03:36 PM
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Sub placement.

Certainly a possibility, though the same sub & placement sounded much better when I had a Pioneer, using their MCACC room EQ system. I do need to study the Audyssey thread, and reconsider sub placement as I am sure it isn't optimized. (I dumped the Pioneer in favor of the 818 for other reasons, long story.)
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post #7940 of 10078 Old 09-18-2013, 05:48 PM
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hey guys I have a couple amps coming to drive my front three. do I simply just route threw the pre outs w/out changing any configuration in the menu? I see where there's an option to choose some of the surrounds for ext output, but nothing for LCR.

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post #7941 of 10078 Old 09-18-2013, 07:30 PM
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hey guys I have a couple amps coming to drive my front three. do I simply just route threw the pre outs w/out changing any configuration in the menu? I see where there's an option to choose some of the surrounds for ext output, but nothing for LCR.

I use the pre outs for 5.1 surround. I had no issues, and needed no special settings. I ignored the special surround high/low ext out settings. Not quite sure what their purpose was. Maybe it lets you use the internal amp to power zone 2 or 3 if your using pre outs for those surrounds?

My priorities? Each one of my speakers weighs more than my VT60.
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post #7942 of 10078 Old 09-18-2013, 07:37 PM
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hey guys I have a couple amps coming to drive my front three. do I simply just route threw the pre outs w/out changing any configuration in the menu? I see where there's an option to choose some of the surrounds for ext output, but nothing for LCR.

Correct. Although don't forget to run Audyssey setup again as the gain structure of the external amps will be different from the 818's amps.
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I use the pre outs for 5.1 surround. I had no issues, and needed no special settings. I ignored the special surround high/low ext out settings. Not quite sure what their purpose was. Maybe it lets you use the internal amp to power zone 2 or 3 if your using pre outs for those surrounds?

That setting is used to expand the 818 from a 7.2 CH to 9.2 CH in the main zone.

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post #7943 of 10078 Old 09-18-2013, 10:26 PM
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Correct. Although don't forget to run Audyssey setup again as the gain structure of the external amps will be different from the 818's amps.
That setting is used to expand the 818 from a 7.2 CH to 9.2 CH in the main zone.

9.2 sounds awesome....tongue.gif
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post #7944 of 10078 Old 09-19-2013, 05:45 AM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

hey guys I have a couple amps coming to drive my front three. do I simply just route threw the pre outs w/out changing any configuration in the menu? I see where there's an option to choose some of the surrounds for ext output, but nothing for LCR.

 

All you need to do is connect the LCR preouts on the AVR to the inputs on the new amp and connect the speakers to the new amp.

 
I would re-run Audyssey because the gain structure of the Emo amp is not likely to be the same as the AVR so the LCR may be playing too loud. Audyssey will sort that out.  (JD beat me to it)
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post #7945 of 10078 Old 09-19-2013, 05:46 AM
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Do you have a number for Onkyo UK support?  

+49-(0)8142-4208-11
Monday-Friday 10:00-17:00 (CET)

or live chat, email, carrier pigeon, etc.
http://www.uk.onkyo.com/en/support-273.html

 

+49 is the international dial code for Germany. Their UK support is in *Germany*??  Wow.

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post #7946 of 10078 Old 09-19-2013, 05:48 AM
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Sub placement.

Certainly a possibility, though the same sub & placement sounded much better when I had a Pioneer, using their MCACC room EQ system. I do need to study the Audyssey thread, and reconsider sub placement as I am sure it isn't optimized. (I dumped the Pioneer in favor of the 818 for other reasons, long story.)

 

MCACC doesn't EQ the bass frequencies of course...

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post #7947 of 10078 Old 09-19-2013, 11:51 AM
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Watch the new Star Trek, Into Darkness last night. Seriously, I can't believe how good this 818 sounds. The movie experience is phenomenal. The bass management is blowing me away, as is the clarity and completeness of the surround field. This really puts the UMC to shame. I've really been missing out.

I don't know if it's the Audyssey XT32, or just the AVR, but I am impressed...a very happy customer. I only did 3 listening positions with Audyssey, because there really aren't more than that in my room.

Now I just need to figure out how to play stereo music with full range going to my fronts, and still send LFE to my woofers. I have fronts speakers that play below 30Hz, so I get frustrated when they get crossed over at 60 or 80. But I also love bass, and like my dual 15" to playing during music. Hope I can figure this one out, but I haven't messed with it too much yet.

My priorities? Each one of my speakers weighs more than my VT60.
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post #7948 of 10078 Old 09-19-2013, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by NODES View Post

9.2 sounds awesome....tongue.gif

I once heard a 9.4 system, using JTR Triple 8HTs as the surrounds. Freak'in amazing. Watched Blackhawk down and it literally felt like you were there. Subs were Captivators I think, or something gigantic from Seaton.

My priorities? Each one of my speakers weighs more than my VT60.
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post #7949 of 10078 Old 09-19-2013, 11:57 AM
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Xovers are not cliffs they are slopes. So a xover at 50 will use you mains below 50 a great deal and and in with you sub(s). This great for Audyseey calibrated stereo.
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post #7950 of 10078 Old 09-19-2013, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

MCACC doesn't EQ the bass frequencies of course...

Good point; whatever Audyssey is doing to bass, so far I don't like it though.

It is possible I have become used to listening to things the "wrong" way since I have never had bass management until I got the 818. I just turned it up 'til it sounded good.
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