Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 306 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9151 of 10204 Old 02-16-2014, 05:14 PM
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While it may not be ideal to use the shared speaker level output for the center channel, I don't think, if one is prudent with the volume knob, that there would be any issues......but may as well not use the receiver's amp for the sub in any case and just use the pre-out. I was more curious why you said not to use the pre-out....
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post #9152 of 10204 Old 02-16-2014, 05:17 PM
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Because the center channel sound will be diverted to the preout with no sound being presented in the center speaker. If the objective is to obtain only the rumbles and grumbles of speech as opposed to actual spoken word this is the way to go. I truly believe he will get the most out of what he has if he follows a traditional setup. Let's be honest the sub he has isn't actually hitting anything below 40hZ regardless of the specs.

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post #9153 of 10204 Old 02-16-2014, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpalmieri1203 View Post

Because the center channel sound will be diverted to the preout with no sound being presented in the center speaker. If the objective is to obtain only the rumbles and grumbles of speech as opposed to actual spoken word this is the way to go. I truly believe he will get the most out of what he has if he follows a traditional setup. Let's be honest the sub he has isn't actually hitting anything below 40hZ regardless of the specs.

So you are saying if I hook up to the Pre Out than it turns off the output from the Speaker Level side?

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post #9154 of 10204 Old 02-16-2014, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ragingmain View Post

So you are saying if I hook up to the Pre Out than it turns off the output from the Speaker Level side?

I believe it does. I actually think on our 818s you need to go in to the menu and select to enable ALL the Preouts not just for individual channels so in effect you'd lose all audio from all channels unless you purchase an amplifier and run the preouts to the amp.

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post #9155 of 10204 Old 02-16-2014, 05:32 PM
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I thought I read early in this thread that this avr will simultaneously output to the preout and speaker level outs......one way to find out! I'm familiar with the sub, I have one (unused at the moment as I have four better subs wink.gif ).
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post #9156 of 10204 Old 02-16-2014, 05:34 PM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

I thought I read early in this thread that this avr will simultaneously output to the preout and speaker level outs......one way to find out! I'm familiar with the sub, I have one (unused at the moment as I have four better subs wink.gif ).

I am busy doing my stats HW for my Project Management class or I would go hook it up and try

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post #9157 of 10204 Old 02-16-2014, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

I thought I read early in this thread that this avr will simultaneously output to the preout and speaker level outs......one way to find out! I'm familiar with the sub, I have one (unused at the moment as I have four better subs wink.gif ).

If it does that's the way to go.

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post #9158 of 10204 Old 02-16-2014, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

I thought I read early in this thread that this avr will simultaneously output to the preout and speaker level outs......one way to find out! I'm familiar with the sub, I have one (unused at the moment as I have four better subs wink.gif ).

I think that is the case but then you have to run the center full range for it to work. If you engage the receiver crossover you'll route bass to the sub out and none will be sent to center channel preout.
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post #9159 of 10204 Old 02-16-2014, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post


I think that is the case but then you have to run the center full range for it to work. If you engage the receiver crossover you'll route bass to the sub out and none will be sent to center channel preout.

What if you set the CC XO low like to 40-50hz?  The rest would be sent to the sub correct?

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post #9160 of 10204 Old 02-16-2014, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by ragingmain View Post

What if you set the CC XO low like to 40-50hz?  The rest would be sent to the sub correct?

Yes if you set it to 40hz,anything below that goes to your main sub connected to the sub preout. But anything above that now goes to the center channel speaker AND the sub you connected to the preout for the center. So your are forcing your speaker to play lower than it can and then also doubling up those same frequencies to your center channel sub.
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post #9161 of 10204 Old 02-16-2014, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post


Yes if you set it to 40hz,anything below that goes to your main sub connected to the sub preout. But anything above that now goes to the center channel speaker AND the sub you connected to the preout for the center. So your are forcing your speaker to play lower than it can and then also doubling up those same frequencies to your center channel sub.

Crap.  This is exactly what I was afraid of.  Although I can limit how high the sub goes to minimize the doubling of frequencies by using the LPF but I cannot stop the CC from trying to play lower frequencies than it is rated for.

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post #9162 of 10204 Old 02-16-2014, 06:35 PM
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Yep, back to waiting for the new sub. :-)
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post #9163 of 10204 Old 02-16-2014, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

Yes if you set it to 40hz,anything below that goes to your main sub connected to the sub preout. But anything above that now goes to the center channel speaker AND the sub you connected to the preout for the center. So your are forcing your speaker to play lower than it can and then also doubling up those same frequencies to your center channel sub.

That's really not too much of an issue. Your speaker just WON'T reproduce the sound. What are your normal listening levels like? Do you have an SPL meter? Might be a nice investment so you can get some idea of what's going on when you get your SVS in. If you've never experienced premium bass prepare to be amazed.

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post #9164 of 10204 Old 02-16-2014, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpalmieri1203 View Post


That's really not too much of an issue. Your speaker just WON'T reproduce the sound. What are your normal listening levels like? Do you have an SPL meter? Might be a nice investment so you can get some idea of what's going on when you get your SVS in. If you've never experienced premium bass prepare to be amazed.

Distortion will rise significantly as it tries to play frequencies it cannot.  Remember it will get 20hz or lower content when set to full range.

 

Another thing he'd need to remember is to adjust the center subwoofer phase to get best blend with center channel.  

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post #9165 of 10204 Old 02-16-2014, 07:28 PM
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Hey guys, I am currently running 7.1 with heights instead of rears and had a question about powering my speakers using the 818. My fronts and center are klipsch with a sensitivity in the mid nineties but I am still using four of my old surrounds for the sides and heights that come from the Onkyo THX 9400 system and have a sensitivity in the low low eighties. I plan on getting some klipsch surrounds soon but in the meantime would you guys suggest I forgo using the heights as to not take any potential power and headroom away from the good speakers or can the 818 still handle the demand? I know things like listening volume and levels come into play so for reference I am only about 4-8 ft away from each speaker and the trim levels on the onkyo speakers are -3 to -1 while the klipsch are -7. I listen around -12 in roughly an 8x10 room, crossovers all at 80. Thanks!

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post #9166 of 10204 Old 02-16-2014, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Niroe64 View Post

Hey guys, I am currently running 7.1 with heights instead of rears and had a question about powering my speakers using the 818. My fronts and center are klipsch with a sensitivity in the mid nineties but I am still using four of my old surrounds for the sides and heights that come from the Onkyo THX 9400 system and have a sensitivity in the low low eighties. I plan on getting some klipsch surrounds soon but in the meantime would you guys suggest I forgo using the heights as to not take any potential power and headroom away from the good speakers or can the 818 still handle the demand? I know things like listening volume and levels come into play so for reference I am only about 4-8 ft away from each speaker and the trim levels on the onkyo speakers are -3 to -1 while the klipsch are -7. I listen around -12 in roughly an 8x10 room, crossovers all at 80. Thanks!

Personally being only 4-8 feet away I would say you are fine in leaving your highs hooked up.  You're plenty close enough to get full sound without having to crank it and putting strain on your 818.

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post #9167 of 10204 Old 02-16-2014, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpalmieri1203 View Post

That's really not too much of an issue. Your speaker just WON'T reproduce the sound. What are your normal listening levels like? Do you have an SPL meter? Might be a nice investment so you can get some idea of what's going on when you get your SVS in. If you've never experienced premium bass prepare to be amazed.
Distortion will rise significantly as it tries to play frequencies it cannot.  Remember it will get 20hz or lower content when set to full range.

Another thing he'd need to remember is to adjust the center subwoofer phase to get best blend with center channel.  

Like he said, Wednesday can't arrive soon enough so he can forget all about this plan.... smile.gif
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post #9168 of 10204 Old 02-16-2014, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Like he said, Wednesday can't arrive soon enough so he can forget all about this plan.... smile.gif

Agreed its basically nonsense but he knows it.... and since we are 90 posts in...

Wired center chanel, Center pre-out to the old sub, x-over at 80hz.


The intent was to enrich the center channel not provide LFE, 80hz happens to be the lower end of the human vocal range anyhow isnt it?

This way his SVS will still hande the lfe, crappy sub will play 80-150hz on the center channel, center channel will play what it plays. I do think the speaker terminals stay active with the pre-out in use. not sure tho.

Nobody gets hurt tongue.gif
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post #9169 of 10204 Old 02-16-2014, 11:13 PM
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The intent was to enrich the center channel not provide LFE, 80hz happens to be the lower end of the human vocal range anyhow isnt it?


...unless you're watching James Earl Jones, or Michael Clarke Duncan retrospectives...
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post #9170 of 10204 Old 02-17-2014, 06:27 PM
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Ok. I may be crazy but I just ordered a Nova Pre Amp/DAC and Nova 220 amp so I can play stereo streaming music from my Apple TV and iMac. I also wanted more power to drive my front channel 4 ohm speakers so am going to set this up so my onkyo processes for HT and Nova will process when listening to streaming music. Hope this works!

Need to figure out how to set it up so I can do HT with the onkyo and music with the nova as processor.
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post #9171 of 10204 Old 02-17-2014, 09:44 PM
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48 hours, ish

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post #9172 of 10204 Old 02-17-2014, 10:11 PM
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Ok. I may be crazy but I just ordered a Nova Pre Amp/DAC and Nova 220 amp so I can play stereo streaming music from my Apple TV and iMac. I also wanted more power to drive my front channel 4 ohm speakers so am going to set this up so my onkyo processes for HT and Nova will process when listening to streaming music. Hope this works!

Need to figure out how to set it up so I can do HT with the onkyo and music with the nova as processor.

Your Onkyo couldn't play streaming music from your Apple thingies?
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post #9173 of 10204 Old 02-17-2014, 10:41 PM
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It could . It just didn't have the power to drive my 4 ohm speakers which are fronts and surrounds. I needed an amp for my speakers and decided the DAC/pre combo for music would be good plus the 2 channel amp for my fronts would help. I will be adding another amp for my other channels.
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post #9174 of 10204 Old 02-17-2014, 11:19 PM
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Just curious, but you know 4ohm speakers are actually easier to drive than 8ohm, right? A receiver will make more power into the lower impedance. Now whether the amp is stable when putting out that much more power is another question. You don't really need a more powerful amp for lower impedance speakers though.
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post #9175 of 10204 Old 02-17-2014, 11:21 PM
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Just curious, but you know 4ohm speakers are actually easier to drive than 8ohm, right? A receiver will make more power into the lower impedance. Now whether the amp is stable when putting out that much more power is another question. You don't really need a more powerful amp for lower impedance speakers though.
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post #9176 of 10204 Old 02-17-2014, 11:21 PM
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Just curious, but you know 4ohm speakers are actually easier to drive than 8ohm, right? A receiver will make more power into the lower impedance. Now whether the amp is stable when putting out that much more power is another question. You don't really need a more powerful amp for lower impedance speakers though.
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post #9177 of 10204 Old 02-17-2014, 11:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonginator View Post

It could . It just didn't have the power to drive my 4 ohm speakers which are fronts and surrounds. I needed an amp for my speakers and decided the DAC/pre combo for music would be good plus the 2 channel amp for my fronts would help. I will be adding another amp for my other channels.

I thought your Onk 818 would drive about 125 wpc into 4 ohms. My Onk 717 has two power options in the setup menu, 6 ohms and 4 ohms, I think around 110 wpc.

Will your 818 deliver enough power on 4 ohms?

Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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post #9178 of 10204 Old 02-17-2014, 11:47 PM
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I thought your Onk 818 would drive about 125 wpc into 4 ohms. My Onk 717 has two power options in the setup menu, 6 ohms and 4 ohms, I think around 110 wpc.

Will your 818 deliver enough power on 4 ohms?

It does have a 6ohm setting too.

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post #9179 of 10204 Old 02-18-2014, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by bonginator View Post

It could . It just didn't have the power to drive my 4 ohm speakers which are fronts and surrounds. I needed an amp for my speakers and decided the DAC/pre combo for music would be good plus the 2 channel amp for my fronts would help. I will be adding another amp for my other channels.

What speakers? I can maybe seeing adding another amp via the preouts (as I do that smile.gif ) but another DAC and preamp? What is that going to do except complicate matters?
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post #9180 of 10204 Old 02-18-2014, 07:33 AM
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It does have a 6ohm setting too.
OK, thanks, I thought it did. smile.gif

I love that Onk 818, I think it hits a performance/features-to-cost point that is virtually unmatched. My Onk 717 comes close with just a little less power and is currently $200 cheaper. so I'm satisfied and my 717 meets all my needs. When I need advice on how to use my 717, the 818 thread usually answers all my questions.

Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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