Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 307 - AVS Forum
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post #9181 of 10016 Old 02-18-2014, 06:36 AM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

What speakers? I can maybe seeing adding another amp via the preouts (as I do that smile.gif ) but another DAC and preamp? What is that going to do except complicate matters?

I'm considering doing that as well, adding additional power amp for my L/R in a 5.1 setup (center channel is different).

Would you mind expanding on what you are using, and what benefits you are getting from the additional power?

Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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post #9182 of 10016 Old 02-18-2014, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

What speakers? I can maybe seeing adding another amp via the preouts (as I do that smile.gif ) but another DAC and preamp? What is that going to do except complicate matters?

That's where I started this journey - adding an amp for more power to my speakers. I got a great deal on the combo amp and DAC so decided to pull the trigger and try them to see if I notice a difference with the streaming music since I stream quite a bit.

It sounds like there are not others here running the Nova pre with the Onkyo.
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post #9183 of 10016 Old 02-18-2014, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by wvu80 View Post

I thought your Onk 818 would drive about 125 wpc into 4 ohms. My Onk 717 has two power options in the setup menu, 6 ohms and 4 ohms, I think around 110 wpc.

Will your 818 deliver enough power on 4 ohms?

The 818 has a 6 ohm setting but not a 4 ohm setting. I was also told by support not to mix 4 ohm speakers with 8 ohm on the Onkyo.
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post #9184 of 10016 Old 02-18-2014, 08:29 AM
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untrue...
The 818 has 4 ohm and 6-16 ohm settings...no "true" 8 ohm setting, but the 6 ohm covers it.

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post #9185 of 10016 Old 02-18-2014, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by bonginator View Post

The 818 has a 6 ohm setting but not a 4 ohm setting. I was also told by support not to mix 4 ohm speakers with 8 ohm on the Onkyo.

No, wvu80 is correct. The settings in the menu of my 818 are 6 or 4. See page 59 of the manual.

In my case, Stereophile measurements show that my front L/R (NHT Classic 3) dip below 4 ohms. They are spec'd higher, but the measurements do not match the spec.

Running the 818 with those speakers causes the top panel to be too hot to touch when I am at -15db or so below reference, so I run with the 4 ohm setting. This limits maximum output, but since I do not run at reference, I have not detected any audible issue, plus the top panel no longer doubles as a grill top.
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post #9186 of 10016 Old 02-18-2014, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonginator View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

What speakers? I can maybe seeing adding another amp via the preouts (as I do that smile.gif ) but another DAC and preamp? What is that going to do except complicate matters?

That's where I started this journey - adding an amp for more power to my speakers. I got a great deal on the combo amp and DAC so decided to pull the trigger and try them to see if I notice a difference with the streaming music since I stream quite a bit.

It sounds like there are not others here running the Nova pre with the Onkyo.

Why would anyone run two different pre's? That's one too many..... smile.gif

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post #9187 of 10016 Old 02-18-2014, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvu80 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

What speakers? I can maybe seeing adding another amp via the preouts (as I do that smile.gif ) but another DAC and preamp? What is that going to do except complicate matters?

I'm considering doing that as well, adding additional power amp for my L/R in a 5.1 setup (center channel is different).

Would you mind expanding on what you are using, and what benefits you are getting from the additional power?


Onkyo HTRC370 currently with two Crown XLS1500s for the LCR speakers (Ascend Sierra-1s). Just because I could and to see what these proamps are like (they'll probably go another direction some day with a DIY project), and to extend the life of the avr if anything. Speakers can't take all the power in any case. I have other power amps I've had for years, too (Carver M500s).

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post #9188 of 10016 Old 02-18-2014, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Onkyo HTRC370 currently with two Crown XLS1500s for the LCR speakers (Ascend Sierra-1s). Just because I could and to see what these proamps are like (they'll probably go another direction some day with a DIY project), and to extend the life of the avr if anything. Speakers can't take all the power in any case. I have other power amps I've had for years, too (Carver M500s).

Was there any qualitative result? Did the speakers sound better, or play louder, have more head room, or have more punch?

If they only play louder, I will probably pass on the idea. I listen to classical/jazz music that has dramatic dynamics, and I want the soft passages to sound soft, and the loud parts to get LOUD. I'm pretty happy with what I have, but is there anyone who posts here who doesn't want more? tongue.gif

Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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post #9189 of 10016 Old 02-18-2014, 03:24 PM
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I added an (older) EMO UPA 7 to run my high fronts and 4 surrounds for 9.2. the 818 runs LCR and I have 2 BF THTLP's (30") each with a BASH 300.
Adding the extra amp can make things louder but I the improvement I hear was that the sound stage for V-tuner station like Oranglive and most better bitrate ambient/chillout stuff is wider , deeper, clearer and better nuanced and able to blend better with the 4 rears, WRT my MLP.
BD Movies and Rock Videos , all good
Master and Commander cannon shots shake the floor, the seat, me and whatever isn't well anchored. And the whiz of overhead/passing cannon shots, clear enough to make you want to duck . . .
my guidelines for distances, heights, separation etc. and such were to allow the 818 to be able to create, as much as possible, the "THX immersive audio/video environment'
my recliner and I agree.
that station is :Organlive

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post #9190 of 10016 Old 02-18-2014, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by asarose247 View Post

I added an (older) EMO UPA 7 to run my high fronts and 4 surrounds for 9.2. the 818 runs LCR and I have 2 BF THTLP's (30") each with a BASH 300.
Adding the extra amp can make things louder but I the improvement I hear was that the sound stage for V-tuner station like Oranglive and most better bitrate ambient/chillout stuff is wider , deeper, clearer and better nuanced and able to blend better with the 4 rears, WRT my MLP.
BD Movies and Rock Videos , all good
Master and Commander cannon shots shake the floor, the seat, me and whatever isn't well anchored. And the whiz of overhead/passing cannon shots, clear enough to make you want to duck . . .
my guidelines for distances, heights, separation etc. and such were to allow the 818 to be able to create, as much as possible, the "THX immersive audio/video environment'
my recliner and I agree.
that station is :Organlive

I didn't get much of that.

Home Theatre:
Onkyo TX-NR818
Onkyo C7030

DALI Zensor 7, Zensor 1, Vokal, DALI E-12F
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post #9191 of 10016 Old 02-18-2014, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvu80 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Onkyo HTRC370 currently with two Crown XLS1500s for the LCR speakers (Ascend Sierra-1s). Just because I could and to see what these proamps are like (they'll probably go another direction some day with a DIY project), and to extend the life of the avr if anything. Speakers can't take all the power in any case. I have other power amps I've had for years, too (Carver M500s).

Was there any qualitative result? Did the speakers sound better, or play louder, have more head room, or have more punch?

If they only play louder, I will probably pass on the idea. I listen to classical/jazz music that has dramatic dynamics, and I want the soft passages to sound soft, and the loud parts to get LOUD. I'm pretty happy with what I have, but is there anyone who posts here who doesn't want more? tongue.gif

I couldn't a/b the amps but I didn't notice any difference between the amps as a result of changing them. I think the speakers run out of gas well before the amps do. I don't think I ever had the Onkyo without the power amps for the fronts, though as one thing I changed to the Onkyo for was the pre-outs to use my amps (and to get a bit more updated avr for 3d/hdmi ports/bass management). One thing about the amp "differences" that I've always wondered about is how the engineers for the various companies who make/market them feel about it....can't say I've ever seen a comment from that level of knowledge. I think the only way to get loud is to get the appropriate speakers for the room you want to get loud in. I'll look at higher sensitivity speakers, likely a SEOS DIY build sometime in the future (but a DIY sub will be first).

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post #9192 of 10016 Old 02-18-2014, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by wvu80 View Post


I thought your Onk 818 would drive about 125 wpc into 4 ohms. My Onk 717 has two power options in the setup menu, 6 ohms and 4 ohms, I think around 110 wpc.

Will your 818 deliver enough power on 4 ohms?

 

When driven by a sine wave to clipping, the 818 is capable of over 200WPC into 4 ohms with the 6 ohms setting and only **two** channels driven. Over 145WPC into 8 ohms under the same conditions. But will only deliver just over 50WPC into 8 ohms with all 7 channels driven simultaneously due to limiting. A limiting relay kicks in whenever the total mains load approaches 972VA or around 8.1A at 120VAC.

 

I didn't take any measurements using the 4 ohms setting since I would never be using it even if for some strange reason I ended up with 4 ohms speakers. The sweet spot for music, from a power perspective, is with four channels driven into 8 ohms simultaneously for around 120WPC (480W total). All other combinations will result in less overall power output. Also, the limiting relay will kick in before clipping is reached if more than four channels are driven simultaneously. Trust me, you don't want that relay to kick in while listening to loud music.

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post #9193 of 10016 Old 02-19-2014, 03:35 PM
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I'm using all Martin Logan speakers (electromotion series) and they vary from 4, 5, and 6 nominal ratings. I have to set the 818 at the 4ohm setting. I haven't had any issues although after running audyssey, I find my surrounds and rears a slightly over powering the fronts, especially if I listen to music in all channel stereo. So having said that, I'm also debating if I should add a 2ch power amp to the 818 to drive the fronts separately. Any thoughts??

Secondly, I've noticed that when I play movies from, Netflix for example, it states it's HD 5.1 audio. But when I check the audio information in the setup, it states"input: 2.0 ch" then down below it will show the listening mode I've selected which is usually 7.1. Why does it say 2.0 from input, shouldn't this be 5.1?
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post #9194 of 10016 Old 02-19-2014, 03:38 PM
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The loud surrounds is probably caused by Dynamic Eq. Check if you have it on and if so turn if off for music or set the Reference Level Offset to - 10.

For Netflix it is not seeing the 5.1 input so check the Netflix device audio settings. Make sure it is set to Bitstream and or Dolby.
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post #9195 of 10016 Old 02-19-2014, 04:07 PM
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I'm using netflix straight from the tv. The tv is hooked up to the 818 via hdmi in the ARC. So this disables audio settings on the tv. Any other suggestions or am I missing something?
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post #9196 of 10016 Old 02-19-2014, 04:13 PM
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Never mind, I think I found it! Found an option to select either PCM or Bitstream. It works! Thanks primetimeguy.

Now, any opinions on the additional power amp???
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post #9197 of 10016 Old 02-19-2014, 05:04 PM
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Never mind, I think I found it! Found an option to select either PCM or Bitstream. It works! Thanks primetimeguy.

Now, any opinions on the additional power amp???

Which did you use, pcm or bitstream? Do both send 5.1 over hdmi arc to the receiver when using the tv's apps?
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post #9198 of 10016 Old 02-19-2014, 05:19 PM
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Which did you use, pcm or bitstream? Do both send 5.1 over hdmi arc to the receiver when using the tv's apps?

PCM from a TV will be 2 channel only

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post #9199 of 10016 Old 02-19-2014, 05:33 PM
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PCM from a TV will be 2 channel only

So then will bitstream pass 5.1 to the receiver over hdmi arc?
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post #9200 of 10016 Old 02-19-2014, 05:45 PM
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So then will bitstream pass 5.1 to the receiver over hdmi arc?

It should

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post #9201 of 10016 Old 02-20-2014, 03:54 PM
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I'll start off by saying I am fairly new to Home Theaters. I was used to HTiaB and recently decided to get rid of that junk and upgrade to some REAL hardware. I purchased an onkyo TX-NR818, 2 Polk Audio TSX550T for my front R/L and a TSx250 c for my center. I plan on getting an SVS PB13 Ultra sub, an oppo 103d bluray player and a pair of suround speakers. Either 2 Polk FXi A4 or 2 Polk LSiM 703. I also want to get 1 emotiva XPA-2 to drive my front mains. My main question and reason for this post was to clarify how to hook up the amp to my system. Do I use the preouts from the receiver?
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post #9202 of 10016 Old 02-20-2014, 03:58 PM
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Yes
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post #9203 of 10016 Old 02-20-2014, 03:59 PM
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What does that look like? RCA cords running to the input on the emotiva? Then what about the outputs on the amp?
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post #9204 of 10016 Old 02-20-2014, 04:14 PM
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Yes

And your speakers connect to the amp
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post #9205 of 10016 Old 02-20-2014, 04:17 PM
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Yes

And your speakers connect to the amp
Oh ok! So I don't use the main speaker outs from the onkyo receiver to the speakers?
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post #9206 of 10016 Old 02-20-2014, 04:23 PM
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Correct
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post #9207 of 10016 Old 02-20-2014, 04:25 PM
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Correct
Great! Thank you so much, that really helps. Any other suggestions on this setup?
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post #9208 of 10016 Old 02-20-2014, 04:44 PM
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Save some connections, time and money and forget the amp. :-)
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post #9209 of 10016 Old 02-20-2014, 04:58 PM
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T
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Save some connections, time and money and forget the amp. :-)
Thanks!
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post #9210 of 10016 Old 02-20-2014, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by rlb4 View Post

Which did you use, pcm or bitstream? Do both send 5.1 over hdmi arc to the receiver when using the tv's apps?

The TV was set to PCM, and I was receiving 2ch only from the apps( Netflix and cinema now). I switched it to bitstream and I get 5.1 sent to the receiver. To be honest, I believe there's little to no difference in sound. At first, the receiver was getting 2ch from the TV and decoded the signal and sent it out as 7.1. Now the receiver is getting direct 5.1 from the TV and sending out 7.1. Either way, there's decoding taking place in the receiver.
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