Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 309 - AVS Forum
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post #9241 of 10022 Old 02-27-2014, 03:11 AM
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Originally Posted by theoneofgod View Post

Dynamic EQ will bring the surrounds to life. They can be a little quiet depending on source/setup but even the subtle tick tocks of a clock in the surrounds watching House of Cards was a nice effect.

And I imagine the quality of the speaker adds to the equation as well, whether you can hear those subtle sounds or not. I know when I upgraded from the Monitor series to the RTi A line, the difference was apparent from movies to tv to music! I love it when sounds get passed to my wides & surrounds while watching Family Guy lol. Or Star Trek, or Prometheus, or... and the list goes on! biggrin.gif

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post #9242 of 10022 Old 02-27-2014, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by wvu80 View Post

I've been considering that as well, with my Onk 717 (7.2, 110 wpc). I also re-purposed a pair of small but decent bookshelf speakers for L/R surrounds, in a small/medium living room environment.

I am very un-impressed with L/R surrounds in a 5.1 setup, and I've been mulling over not using surrounds. I am not sure how to set this up, but I want to run L/C/R, the bookshelf speakers for wides, and my sub. What do you run, and what would you recommend? (ie. 5.1 plus the wides, or 3.1 plus the wides?)

I don't think that running WIDES without SURROUNDS is possible. From the 818 manual;

■Front Wide*1*3*4*6*8, Front High*1*3*5*6*7*8

*6 If the “Surround” setting is set to “None”, this setting cannot
be selected.
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post #9243 of 10022 Old 02-27-2014, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by kevin g. View Post

Why in the world would you not run surrounds?

A fair enough question. I am new to the 5.1 setups putting my system together a year ago, and it was a big shock to me how different it was from the old 2.0 stereo setups, in particular with regards to the sound stage. I was used to sound traveling from front to back, and I found the surround sound for the most part, distracting. I can hear the imaging with 2.0, in a symphony orchestra the clarinets are front left, percussion center rear, trombones right front. With proper recordings and playback equipment, you can shut your eyes and hear those instruments. Now the focused instruments are all over the place, applause comes from beside me in the surround speakers, loud. The clarity is just not there.

You would be missing a ton of information in a movie

I listen to a lot of HDTV with some 5.1 content, and a few movies, the last being Star Trek into Darkness, 5.1 in BD. The STID sound is phenomenal, but most of the sound comes from the center, some from the L/R, and of course for movies the sub moves the air, and it does not so much for TV watching, so frankly 3.0 would probably satisfy most of my listening needs. Believe me, I like stuff, so I'd like to use all of the speakers my 7.2 Onk offers, and put in 4 subs, but I really don't think it's what would be best for my living room, my listening needs and especially, the Wife Approval Factor.

... The question to ask is: did you run Audyssey? Did you run Audyssey correctly?
Yes, and yes. I ran Audyssey (I think mine is XT, with 3 mic setup positions) probably a dozen times or more, and I used a tri-pod for the mic. I did a lot of experimenting, with sub, without sub, different listening positions. And then I did a lot of experimenting of my own, boosting the sub, changing the EQ, trying to see cause and effect. In the end, I used 90% of the Audyssey settings, with minor variations in setting cross over points, ie Center was set by Audyssey to 60, I changed it to 80.

Are dynamic listening modes engaged?
I have used every listening mode there is, dynamic and non-dynamic. I tried stereo, All Stereo, Pure Audio (which sounds the best to me btw), Neo6, mono, I tried them all extensively, and with multiple audio sources. The electronics in the Onk has dramatic impact on the sound produced

If you are substituting the wides instead of surrounds because of lack of extra speakers...I wouldn't. 5.1 on it's own...not to mention plus wides, (or heights) would benefit you much more than 3.1 plus anything.[/quote

I appreciate the direct answer, and I am listening to what you are saying. I guess what I am looking for a wider sound stage (yes, I know that is one of the listening modes wink.gif ) and the surrounds don't seem to give me what I am looking for, I think, but I'm not certain. I also know my speaker placement, listening environment and the speakers themselves leave a lot to be desired.

You did give me some good advice, so I think I'll take that advice, making my next step to keep the 5.1 as-is, and experiment with adding some wides instead of getting rid of the surrounds. It's all about listening and learning, and that is the part I like about the new (to me) 5.1 sound.

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post #9244 of 10022 Old 02-27-2014, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvu80 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin g. View Post

Why in the world would you not run surrounds?

A fair enough question. I am new to the 5.1 setups putting my system together a year ago, and it was a big shock to me how different it was from the old 2.0 stereo setups, in particular with regards to the sound stage. I was used to sound traveling from front to back, and I found the surround sound for the most part, distracting. I can hear the imaging with 2.0, in a symphony orchestra the clarinets are front left, percussion center rear, trombones right front. With proper recordings and playback equipment, you can shut your eyes and hear those instruments. Now the focused instruments are all over the place, applause comes from beside me in the surround speakers, loud. The clarity is just not there.

I agree, on the music side...I do not listen in any surround mode. That's why we have multiple modes. Put it in stereo for your music, Movie modes for your movie nights. I absolutely do not want other distractions while enjoying music either, and I guess I should have asked what your listening habits are. Thank you.


You would be missing a ton of information in a movie

I listen to a lot of HDTV with some 5.1 content, and a few movies, the last being Star Trek into Darkness, 5.1 in BD. The STID sound is phenomenal, but most of the sound comes from the center, some from the L/R, and of course for movies the sub moves the air, and it does not so much for TV watching, so frankly 3.0 would probably satisfy most of my listening needs. Believe me, I like stuff, so I'd like to use all of the speakers my 7.2 Onk offers, and put in 4 subs, but I really don't think it's what would be best for my living room, my listening needs and especially, the Wife Approval Factor.


That is also a good thing to consider...what is the size, and makeup of your room? if it is just a living room, then I agree...you may not need 4 subs and a ton of speakers.


... The question to ask is: did you run Audyssey? Did you run Audyssey correctly?
Yes, and yes. I ran Audyssey (I think mine is XT, with 3 mic setup positions) probably a dozen times or more, and I used a tri-pod for the mic. I did a lot of experimenting, with sub, without sub, different listening positions. And then I did a lot of experimenting of my own, boosting the sub, changing the EQ, trying to see cause and effect. In the end, I used 90% of the Audyssey settings, with minor variations in setting cross over points, ie Center was set by Audyssey to 60, I changed it to 80.


If you have an 818, you do not have XT, you have XT32. Either way, you need all eight positions recorded. following The Audyssey Chart




I am well aware of this, as I just went through it with a friend. He was not getting all of his surround with his Xbox One. I went through a few menus with him, and he actually had items that were greyed out in his onscreen menu, that I had full access to. While discussing his issues, he told me that he only ran the first three points in Audyssey. He did a factory re-set, and re ran Audyssey.
He tells me he is experiencing better in-game surround, and is much happier with his setup YMMV.
I don't think I would be messing with the settings very much, Everyone tweaks to their taste, but too much messing around, and you get so far away from the room correction that the receiver is measuring...why do it at all?
(some may disagree here...and I certainly would not tell you that I have not changed my settings...I just haven't strayed too far from the original...)


Are dynamic listening modes engaged?
I have used every listening mode there is, dynamic and non-dynamic. I tried stereo, All Stereo, Pure Audio (which sounds the best to me btw), Neo6, mono, I tried them all extensively, and with multiple audio sources. The electronics in the Onk has dramatic impact on the sound produced

I did not mean the surround modes...What I meant was Dynamic Volume, and/or any night listening modes. (Dolby Volume...etc)

If you are substituting the wides instead of surrounds because of lack of extra speakers...I wouldn't. 5.1 on it's own...not to mention plus wides, (or heights) would benefit you much more than 3.1 plus anything.[/quote

I appreciate the direct answer, and I am listening to what you are saying. I guess what I am looking for a wider sound stage (yes, I know that is one of the listening modes wink.gif ) and the surrounds don't seem to give me what I am looking for, I think, but I'm not certain. I also know my speaker placement, listening environment and the speakers themselves leave a lot to be desired.

You did give me some good advice, so I think I'll take that advice, making my next step to keep the 5.1 as-is, and experiment with adding some wides instead of getting rid of the surrounds. It's all about listening and learning, and that is the part I like about the new (to me) 5.1 sound.

My best advice: re-run Audyssey. Use all eight listening positions as outlined by the Audyssey FAQ. Set the Crossovers if you like, then run some source material that showcases the type of listening that you enjoy.
If you are adding the wides, you will need to run Audyssey a second time, so maybe do it all at once?

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post #9245 of 10022 Old 02-27-2014, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevin g. View Post

My best advice: re-run Audyssey. Use all eight listening positions as outlined by the Audyssey FAQ. Set the Crossovers if you like, then run some source material that showcases the type of listening that you enjoy.
If you are adding the wides, you will need to run Audyssey a second time, so maybe do it all at once?

Since I can never remember, so I checked and found out my Onk 717 had the Audyssey 2EQ, which specifies quick setup at 1 position, and full setup which specifies 3 listening positions, left, center and right. And "yes" I will be running Audyssey again, probably many times. smile.gif

I was sure about the Dynamic Volume settings, until you asked me. rolleyes.gif I will check again and report back.
+++

Edit:
Source Setup - Audyssey
For TV:
Dynamic EQ = On
Reference = 10 db (0, 5, 10, 15)
Dynamic volume = Light (light, med, heavy)

Intellivolume = 0 db

Audio Adjust - 5. Theater Dimensional
Listening angle = narrow (narrow, wide) Note: my speakers are very close together, 24"

Speaker Setup
THX - Loudness Plus = On (adds loudness at lower listening levels)
+++

Have I missed any settings you want me to check?

Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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post #9246 of 10022 Old 02-28-2014, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvu80 View Post

Since I can never remember, so I checked and found out my Onk 717 had the Audyssey 2EQ, which specifies quick setup at 1 position, and full setup which specifies 3 listening positions, left, center and right. And "yes" I will be running Audyssey again, probably many times. smile.gif

I was sure about the Dynamic Volume settings, until you asked me. rolleyes.gif I will check again and report back.
+++

Edit:
Source Setup - Audyssey
For TV:
Dynamic EQ = On
Reference = 10 db (0, 5, 10, 15)
Dynamic volume = Light (light, med, heavy)

Intellivolume = 0 db

Audio Adjust - 5. Theater Dimensional
Listening angle = narrow (narrow, wide) Note: my speakers are very close together, 24"

Speaker Setup
THX - Loudness Plus = On (adds loudness at lower listening levels)
+++

Have I missed any settings you want me to check?


Sorry, I must have missed that you had the 717. Those menu settings look ok, but I am not familiar with your room...(not sure about the "Listening Angle" I don' t think I have run across that in my setup.)
I guess, the only thing that remains, (others may chime in...) is to see if you can experiment with different sound modes, and possibly speaker placement? (You sounded like your placement is less than ideal.)

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post #9247 of 10022 Old 02-28-2014, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by kevin g. View Post

Sorry, I must have missed that you had the 717. Those menu settings look ok, but I am not familiar with your room...(not sure about the "Listening Angle" I don' t think I have run across that in my setup.)
I guess, the only thing that remains, (others may chime in...) is to see if you can experiment with different sound modes, and possibly speaker placement? (You sounded like your placement is less than ideal.)

I think you are correct. I know how to set up my SEOS based speakers correctly, they need to be severely toed-in, and this is due to the design characteristics of the SEOS horn itself. Because of the WAF, the speakers sit inside a box (console openings) facing directly forward, with little wiggle room.

As much as I'd like to add more power amps and additional speakers, the fact is I might not be having any of the sound stage problems if I could place my L/R speakers in an optimum position. C'est la vie. smile.gif
+++

I hang out sometimes on the 818 thread because my 717 is the smaller, less powerful cousin to your 818. I learn a lot about my AVR by listening to 818 owners, many of the settings, problems, and solutions are similar. I like my 717, but the 818 is the star of the Onk line in terms of cost per features offered, IMO.

Symmetry pleases the eye, but it usually offends the ears where low frequencies are concerned. -Yoda Fitzmaurice
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post #9248 of 10022 Old 02-28-2014, 03:52 PM
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Hi - need some quick help from the 818 experts here. I want to run my fronts (left and right) from a separate stereo pre- amp and connected stereo amp. I ran my cabling and went to the menu on page 60 to select pre out to the external amp but there seems to be only the following choices:

No
Surr back
Front high
Front wide

I have my amp wired into the front left and right pre-outs. I want the left front and left right signal to go the external stereo amp connected there (set to unity gain) and then to the amp connected to external stereo amp.

What choice do I pick of the above choices to make sure my fronts are passing thought the stereo pre amp and connected stereo amp?

Thanks - I am a newbie to all of this.
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post #9249 of 10022 Old 02-28-2014, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by bonginator View Post

Hi - need some quick help from the 818 experts here. I want to run my fronts (left and right) from a separate stereo pre- amp and connected stereo amp. I ran my cabling and went to the menu on page 60 to select pre out to the external amp but there seems to be only the following choices:

No
Surr back
Front high
Front wide

I have my amp wired into the front left and right pre-outs. I want the left front and left right signal to go the external stereo amp connected there (set to unity gain) and then to the amp connected to external stereo amp.

What choice do I pick of the above choices to make sure my fronts are passing thought the stereo pre amp and connected stereo amp?

Thanks - I am a newbie to all of this.

The L/R pre outs on the 818 are always live. There are no settings to enable them. As for going through a pre amp that lacks a pass through to get to a power amp, I can't help you there but you may need to play with the 818 channel trims plus the volume knob on the pre.
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post #9250 of 10022 Old 03-01-2014, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by BGLeduc View Post

The L/R pre outs on the 818 are always live. There are no settings to enable them. As for going through a pre amp that lacks a pass through to get to a power amp, I can't help you there but you may need to play with the 818 channel trims plus the volume knob on the pre.

Hmm. I tried hooking up the stereo pre and stereo amp to my L/R channels and the volume set to 12 noon on the pre. I left the pre amp/DAC setting on No and then listened to some music. I did not get good sound through my -low volume and some static. I Called onkyo support and they told me the 818 doesn't support a setting to send the signal to the L/R channels and that I'd need a 929 to support this.

Is anyone else running just an external stereo amp or stereo pre and amp combo connected to their 818 successfully? ( I can remove the pre/DAC in the chain and try again just to see if that makes a difference.)
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post #9251 of 10022 Old 03-01-2014, 07:54 AM
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Not sure I get what you are trying to do. If you want to use the external amp then the 818 is your pre, just connect it to your amp.
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post #9252 of 10022 Old 03-01-2014, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by bonginator View Post

Hmm. I tried hooking up the stereo pre and stereo amp to my L/R channels and the volume set to 12 noon on the pre. I left the pre amp/DAC setting on No and then listened to some music. I did not get good sound through my -low volume and some static. I Called onkyo support and they told me the 818 doesn't support a setting to send the signal to the L/R channels and that I'd need a 929 to support this.

Is anyone else running just an external stereo amp or stereo pre and amp combo connected to their 818 successfully? ( I can remove the pre/DAC in the chain and try again just to see if that makes a difference.)

Unless you are doing something differently than what you described, Onkyo is wrong. Many in this thread are sending the L/R pre outs to external power amps.

You are complicating the issue by going first to a pre, but it still should work, although I don't know what you mean be setting the Pre/DAC to "No".

As you suggest, try going straight to your power amp and see what you get.
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post #9253 of 10022 Old 03-01-2014, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by BGLeduc View Post

Unless you are doing something differently than what you described, Onkyo is wrong. Many in this thread are sending the L/R pre outs to external power amps.

You are complicating the issue by going first to a pre, but it still should work, although I don't know what you mean be setting the Pre/DAC to "No".

As you suggest, try going straight to your power amp and see what you get.

Thanks. I will try the amp alone and see how it goes. The "no" setting I was talking about was the speaker pre out setting on the onkyo.
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post #9254 of 10022 Old 03-01-2014, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by bonginator View Post

Thanks. I will try the amp alone and see how it goes. The "no" setting I was talking about was the speaker pre out setting on the onkyo.

OK. That setting does not affect the main channels so you are ok with that no matter how it is set.
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post #9255 of 10022 Old 03-01-2014, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by bonginator View Post

Thanks. I will try the amp alone and see how it goes. The "no" setting I was talking about was the speaker pre out setting on the onkyo.

The option you are talking about;

No
Surr back
Front high
Front wide

Is to tell the AVR which one of these you would like to send to the external amp in addition to the onboard choice of one of the other three to get to a 9.1 configuration.
Example; Wides (onboard) + Heights (external)

Page 59 of the manual

Preout to External Amplifier
􀁠No
􀁠Surr Back, Front High, Front Wide
For 9.1-channel playback, select the channel output by
SB/FH/FW EXT AMP jacks. If you select speakers whose
setting in Speaker Configuration is set to “None”, it will be
automatically switched to “80Hz (THX)”.
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post #9256 of 10022 Old 03-01-2014, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by BGLeduc View Post

OK. That setting does not affect the main channels so you are ok with that no matter how it is set.

So I ran the stereo amp alone off the L/R pre outs and it works fine.

I am now going to try it again with the pre-amp volume set at 12 noon and try a different RCA connector. I was told by the pre-amp vendor that this should work since it doesn't have HT bypass.

Will report back after trying that again.
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post #9257 of 10022 Old 03-01-2014, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by bonginator View Post


So I ran the stereo amp alone off the L/R pre outs and it works fine.

I am now going to try it again with the pre-amp volume set at 12 noon and try a different RCA connector. I was told by the pre-amp vendor that this should work since it doesn't have HT bypass.

Will report back after trying that again.

Why are you adding a preamp between the 818 and the amp?

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post #9258 of 10022 Old 03-01-2014, 01:30 PM
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Why are you adding a preamp between the 818 and the amp?

Adding a better DAC and pre for music listening.
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post #9259 of 10022 Old 03-01-2014, 01:55 PM
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Did anyone tell you that, because a DAC has better specifications, it still won't sound any different?
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post #9260 of 10022 Old 03-01-2014, 02:13 PM
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Adding a better DAC and pre for music listening.

I think you are wasting your time and money :D

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post #9261 of 10022 Old 03-02-2014, 12:16 PM
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Wonder if you guys can help with this. Running my laptop via HMDI into my 818. Try as I might, the picture mode (direct, through, custom etc) will not actually effect a change. The options cycle through but there is no difference to the picture quality (e.g. adjusting brightness etc on the Custom mode has no effect.) The amp will, however, actually implement the picture mode changes with my other sources (bluray, raspberry pi XBMC). Any thoughts?

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post #9262 of 10022 Old 03-02-2014, 12:32 PM
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does anyone know if the 4k up-scaling will work the same as 4k pass through. Thinking about getting a 4k tv in the near future and want to know if this receiver will be compatiable with a 4k tv
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post #9263 of 10022 Old 03-02-2014, 01:35 PM
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Adding a better DAC and pre for music listening.

Better than the Burr-Browns in the 818? I doubt you would hear much difference if any.

fdsfds
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post #9264 of 10022 Old 03-02-2014, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by pieczonka View Post

does anyone know if the 4k up-scaling will work the same as 4k pass through. Thinking about getting a 4k tv in the near future and want to know if this receiver will be compatiable with a 4k tv

The 818 currently can't pass-through 4k.

Home Theatre:
Onkyo TX-NR818
Onkyo C7030

DALI Zensor 7, Zensor 1, Vokal, DALI E-12F
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post #9265 of 10022 Old 03-04-2014, 12:16 PM
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Hot dang! Got the replacement 818 this morn, got it all set up, installing the usb firmware update now, then it's time to sit & listen to some tunes finally. cool.gif

"To the journey..."
LG 60PV450
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Polk RTi A7 Mains
Polk RTi CSi A6 Center
Polk RTi A5 Wides & Surrounds
HSU VTF2-Mk4
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post #9266 of 10022 Old 03-05-2014, 06:10 AM
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Hi, all.

I'm attempting to run XT32 on my Onkyo 818 and it's giving me an issue right off the bat.

The first screen tells me to set the subwoofer volume to 75dB. The problem is that it gives a reading of 100dB immediately, even when the room is completely quiet. Adjusting the volume on the sub up or down has little effect on the number.

What's going on here?

I cleared/reset the receiver back to defaults and it's still doing it. Could the microphone have gone bad or something? I ran Audyssey once before using the same equipment and mic and it worked perfectly fine.

Thank you.
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post #9267 of 10022 Old 03-05-2014, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bonginator View Post


Adding a better DAC and pre for music listening.

 

$2 vs $2000 DACs compared here;

 

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733.html

 

~~A $2 Codec Sounds (to us) like a $2000 Device

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post #9268 of 10022 Old 03-05-2014, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ameridian View Post

$2 vs $2000 DACs compared here;

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733.html

~~A $2 Codec Sounds (to us) like a $2000 Device

You've got to love the audiophile forums where folks bash your choices versus answer the question you posted. Thanks to the folks who answered my original question.
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post #9269 of 10022 Old 03-05-2014, 11:52 AM
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tbird8450:
If it is really 100db, you should be able to hear it as well. It is pretty loud(but not unbearably so). First thing to check is to reduce the volume control to minimum and see if you can hear the sound pressure level going down. If you can hear it go down and the reading is still 100 db, that indicates a defective mic. But if you cannot hear the spl go down it may be something in the volume control of your subwoofer. Different subs react differently to that initial test tone(before audyssey calibration). In my SVS 20-39 PC plus, I had to bring the volume level to the absolute minimum to get 75db.
ps: If it still doesn't work right, you could do a factory reset and start over again. Could be a small glitch in the audyssey routine. I had a different kind once with my Denon. Everything worked and while saving the results it hung up at 99% and sat there forever.
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post #9270 of 10022 Old 03-05-2014, 01:22 PM
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I am happy i just got myself a Onkyo TX-NR818 on onecall for $650 No tax free shipping to my door.The main reason why i got this receiver and turst me i been looking for a long time what receiver is the right one for what i will be useing it for.Is because i am in the market on buying very soon a pair of Klipsch RF-7 II and RC-64 II aswell as the surround's RS-64 II.I use to own a old onkyo receiver the TX-SR507.BUT i wanted more power as the 507 only had 80 watt's and it had no pre-out's and it did not even have all the bell's i am getting right now on the 818 .All in all i a happy that i got this receiver.It should be in on next week.I will post picture's.Aswell will be posting more pic's in the comeing month's and week's for my NEW HT setup.I use to have a RF-62 II klipsch setup.But i sold it because i had some problem's i had to take care of in my life.But now i am trying my best to get back on track with the new setup.I am not that far from buying the RF-7 II i can buy them right now .But i am just waiting for more tax money to get in lmao
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