Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 88 - AVS Forum
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post #2611 of 9864 Old 10-06-2012, 08:58 PM
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Thought I would see if I could improve my Panasonic GT50's THX preset by calibrating the grayscale with ISF Day/Night and Custom on the AVR.
What an absolute trainwreck. It couldn't do anything other than make things worse. The tracking is so non-linear that even the slightest change on the cuts and gains would have 10-20% shifts in gamma and colour. The ISF should be ashammed to have their brand associated with this product.
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post #2612 of 9864 Old 10-06-2012, 09:31 PM
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Thanks Mike, one more question, do any of you use the AV SYNC Delay feature on any of your sources to fix lipsync?

i only have problem with my cable tv, there is visible lipsync in some channels, it was like that with the previous receiver too, i tried using the AV SYNC feature on the 818 by adding 50ms delay to the sound, it did make a difference so thats good,

do any of you use that feature too?
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post #2613 of 9864 Old 10-06-2012, 10:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post

Thanks Mike, one more question, do any of you use the AV SYNC Delay feature on any of your sources to fix lipsync?
i only have problem with my cable tv, there is visible lipsync in some channels, it was like that with the previous receiver too, i tried using the AV SYNC feature on the 818 by adding 50ms delay to the sound, it did make a difference so thats good,
do any of you use that feature too?
I thought my V HD box was out of sync, so I set it to 50ms, once back to 0ms I don't notice it anymore. I use ISF Day.

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post #2614 of 9864 Old 10-07-2012, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theoneofgod View Post

I thought my V HD box was out of sync, so I set it to 50ms, once back to 0ms I don't notice it anymore. I use ISF Day.

whats the reason you changed it back to 0?
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post #2615 of 9864 Old 10-07-2012, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Which firmware version do you have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NODES View Post

There was a firmware to fix that issue, but I believe reading this thread it broke something else instead.


I ran the update and it fixed the issue. Not sure what other issue it may have caused but I'm not seeing anything bad right now.
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post #2616 of 9864 Old 10-07-2012, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrenheit View Post

Thought I would see if I could improve my Panasonic GT50's THX preset by calibrating the grayscale with ISF Day/Night and Custom on the AVR.
What an absolute trainwreck. It couldn't do anything other than make things worse. The tracking is so non-linear that even the slightest change on the cuts and gains would have 10-20% shifts in gamma and colour. The ISF should be ashammed to have their brand associated with this product.
Not sure how you can say this without offering all the pertinent information involved with what you did. Is your display calibrated, or what mode are you using? You see, depending on what your display is set up for, to me, and my experience it seems like a double calibration attempt or similar to running two equalizers if that makes more sense. I have to play some more with my setup to prove this out because I have seen some of the same results you have but I have attributed this to a lack of experimentation on my part. It seems to me that the calibration settings are too course in the 818 and same for my previous 809. In other words I find the adjustment settings are not fine enough to dial it in just right but I can get close, just not right there. Is that what you mean? Anyways, I have not dedicated enough time to this to say for sure one way or another and the mode on my display may be wreaking havoc on the overall result.
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post #2617 of 9864 Old 10-07-2012, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

Not sure how you can say this without offering all the pertinent information involved with what you did. Is your display calibrated, or what mode are you using?

Yes, my display is calibrated with Chromapure and i1 Display Pro colorimeter.
The THX Cinema preset on the TV doesn't have any adjustable controls in the menu, so I thought I would try and improve the good (but not perfect) grayscale with the AVR's adjustments...

I shouldn't have bothered.
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post #2618 of 9864 Old 10-07-2012, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Charles J P View Post

I ran the update and it fixed the issue. Not sure what other issue it may have caused but I'm not seeing anything bad right now.


Something to do with the picture quality. It is in this thread somewhere but I cannot locate it.
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post #2619 of 9864 Old 10-08-2012, 03:46 AM
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Hey. Some more observations about 818 behavior. I thought initially that the the network applications such as vTuner and DLNA controller are slow, but it seems it is OSD that is slow. If I look to the device screen it reacts instantly (within 0.1 sec) to the remote, but OSD reacts only about a second later after that, even slower when the page changes. Incredible. They have 4K up-scaling (useless because it appears it does't even able to passthroug 4K because of HDMI inputs are not capable of it) real time, but unable to update the OSD within 0.1 second time - quite normal response time expected from any UI to be usable. I haven't seen this on any other non-Onkyo devices, even on very old DVD and even older VideoCD players. How come no single review even mentioned this... It is really ridiculous that in 2012 this is considered normal and no one even bothers to mention this as a problem! Or is it only me who have such a slow OSD?
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post #2620 of 9864 Old 10-08-2012, 04:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

It is really ridiculous that in 2012 this is considered normal and no one even bothers to mention this as a problem! Or is it only me who have such a slow OSD?

I agree it should be faster but quite frankly the UI of virtually all AVRs is a disaster. Press "start" to "stop".

Markus

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post #2621 of 9864 Old 10-08-2012, 04:18 AM
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At least I've tried recently UI of some cheap 2011 Yamaha AVR. I might agree that it is looking crappy like UI from 80's, but at least it responds quickly. I would rather prefer rectangular simple UI but fast one than nice one but terribly slow (and I cannot actually tell that Onkyo UI is much more complex and 'nice'). As I believe Yamaha has near to the half AVR market share I wouldn't agree that virtually all AVRs have this problem, it is more like most of them don't.
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post #2622 of 9864 Old 10-08-2012, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lamonsasa View Post

whats the reason you changed it back to 0?

I sensed it wasn't in sync again.

Regarding UI speed, I use the AV's screen to navigate. I can't stand the delay with the OSD.

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Onkyo C7030

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post #2623 of 9864 Old 10-08-2012, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamieu View Post

I'd agree (on the sub setting), but LFE crossover is off on the sub, besides...
Two different brands of subs, two different brands of SPL meters, two different rooms, two different units (but same batch/supplier).
I know that sounds unlikely, but fairly confident in my measurements / what I was seeing (not to mention hearing).
I was initially putting it down to my room / sub, but we saw the same thing in the shops demo room and most people there (including an AVR rep who was in store at the time who seemed pretty technical) agreed that the shops sub seemed to be turned down *way* lower than normal / would be expected to reach a 75db reference level and that was before we tested the pink noise from the sub with a SPL meter.
Unfortunately the shop's staff didn't really want to get involved / weren't very technical or familiar with Audyssey and just shrugged it off with "well just turn up your sub afterwards, if that's how you like it" and suggested if I still wasn't happy I should send the unit back to their head office, who would then send it to Onkyo for testing if I thought there was an issue (as I bought it from their online branch).
It's a shame, as I otherwise like the amp, but I think I'm just going to return the unit for a different brand as I can see this as an issue that (at least in the short term) won't be admitted to, and is in danger of causing my amp being shipped from service centre to service centre without resolution.
I'll shut up now :-) unless anyone else is seeing similar symptoms on their units (or I get a response back from Onkyo / Audyssey in which case I'll report back)
ps. I'd love to see if anyone else REW plots look like mine after calibration (ie. the sub set too low).

It looks like I have the same symptoms as you. Although I don't have equipment to do appropriate measurements it sounds exactly as you describe it. During calibration when I set sub to 75 dB it is quiet enough, barely audible, especially compared to extremely loud test tones on main speakers. And after calibration the whole system sounds like everything bellow 200Hz was cut off, instruments such as bass guitars and drums are barely audible even at extreme volume levels!

Have you been able to resolve your issue?
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post #2624 of 9864 Old 10-08-2012, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

It looks like I have the same symptoms as you. Although I don't have equipment to do appropriate measurements it sounds exactly as you describe it. During calibration when I set sub to 75 dB it is quiet enough, barely audible, especially compared to extremely loud test tones on main speakers. And after calibration the whole system sounds like everything bellow 200Hz was cut off, instruments such as bass guitars and drums are barely audible even at extreme volume levels!
Have you been able to resolve your issue?


Mine was quiet as well when compared to the speakers. It might be the way it is suppose to be?
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post #2625 of 9864 Old 10-08-2012, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by NODES View Post

Mine was quiet as well when compared to the speakers. It might be the way it is suppose to be?

May be with sub it is OK, it just looks (sounds) strange and really, with music, there is not much on the sub anyway so I can turn it on and off with no any difference.. Still it is surprising to me it sounds like a whisper at 75dB, even if not comparing it to other speakers. I would even call it at 85 dB as quite quiet.

But totally vanished out drums and bass guitars as a result of calibration are definitely not the way it is supposed to be. Listening this at reference level is like a torture with extremely loud PC speaker. Dynamic EQ + setting bass level to +10dB barely changes anything with Audyssey turned on. Hm... I feel I need to try John Paul Jones CD with it, shall it sound at all...
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post #2626 of 9864 Old 10-08-2012, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fahrenheit View Post

Yes, my display is calibrated with Chromapure and i1 Display Pro colorimeter.
The THX Cinema preset on the TV doesn't have any adjustable controls in the menu, so I thought I would try and improve the good (but not perfect) grayscale with the AVR's adjustments...
I shouldn't have bothered.
Interesting. Thanks for the information. I am curious as to the cause of this because I noted the AVR does make adjustments, but felt they were simply too coarse and I could not get it spot on. I could get it close but it slid back and forth from where I wanted. So I thought I might need to"dull down" my display settings to account for that. Of course this makes no sense at all because that makes the display dull when viewing without the AVR turned on unless I use a custom setting on the display and yadda yadda. Anyone else have any input on using the AVR for calibration?
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post #2627 of 9864 Old 10-08-2012, 08:14 PM
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My dvr keeps breaking up (pixelating and sound cuts out briefly). I am assuming it is because it is connected to the avr. I checked my sons dvr (no dvr) and no problems there. Happens a lot during football games on hd channels. Any guesses on the cause? Anyone else having this problem?
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post #2628 of 9864 Old 10-08-2012, 08:16 PM
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I meant my son doesnt have avr.
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post #2629 of 9864 Old 10-09-2012, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

May be with sub it is OK, it just looks (sounds) strange and really, with music, there is not much on the sub anyway so I can turn it on and off with no any difference.. Still it is surprising to me it sounds like a whisper at 75dB, even if not comparing it to other speakers. I would even call it at 85 dB as quite quiet.
But totally vanished out drums and bass guitars as a result of calibration are definitely not the way it is supposed to be. Listening this at reference level is like a torture with extremely loud PC speaker. Dynamic EQ + setting bass level to +10dB barely changes anything with Audyssey turned on. Hm... I feel I need to try John Paul Jones CD with it, shall it sound at all...

Listening today again different records, trying with and without Audyssey, started to think the bass is there, but it is the trebles that are extremely over-amplified. On some records it is so high that really makes my ears not sensitive to any bass and there is more point in changing treble levels in setup... I've heart there were some people with bad mics on older Onkyos, is there anyone who had problems with 818?
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post #2630 of 9864 Old 10-09-2012, 12:54 PM
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My sub with my speakers set to 80hz is extremely heavy at 30% (sub volume) with Audyssey. Without not so much, but that is with AV volume around 45,50%.

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Onkyo TX-NR818
Onkyo C7030

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post #2631 of 9864 Old 10-10-2012, 07:13 AM
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Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

I agree that unwanted frame rate conversion is an issue and I escalated it with my contact at Onkyo...

Onkyo's engineering has confirmed the issue and are looking for a fix.
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post #2632 of 9864 Old 10-10-2012, 07:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Eric, MultEQ settings are OK. You don't need to change anything. Just make sure to set your sub as recommended in the manual before running Audyssey.
It doesn't ask you to set the sub to 70Hz it asks you to adjust the gain on your sub so the volume level reads 75dB.
Your AVR plays a noise signal through the sub, this is where you adjust the sub gain. The number you see on-screen is updated live. Make sure your mic is at the center of the main listening position.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Audyssey recommends setting them to 80hz also, if there's any question of them being full range or not, which you would find in the Audyssey thread/FAQ.
by dialing the gain/volume on the SVS up/down when the test tone is being played on the XT32 until it matches at 75 dB.


Thank you all. Now I understand and have redone the Audyssey setup and adjusted the Sub and it sounds great.

Eric...
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post #2633 of 9864 Old 10-10-2012, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

Onkyo's engineering has confirmed the issue and are looking for a fix.

Confirmed? Where can I read about it?

I've sent a support request to Onkyo Germany on 9/30. All I got so far is an automated reply that they have received my request. I've sent them a reminder on Monday. No feedback yet.

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post #2634 of 9864 Old 10-10-2012, 08:15 AM
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Do they actually read this thread? I just got an email from Onkyo smile.gif

Now they want to know what disc and what player was used, so I've sent them the problem description they already have a second time...

Markus

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post #2635 of 9864 Old 10-10-2012, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Confirmed? Where can I read about it?

My inbox smile.gif.

I forwarded this issue to my contact at Onkyo. He sent it to engineering and they were able to reproduce/confirm that it is an issue. The root cause hasn't been identified yet so the feasibility of a fix is unknown, but they are looking into it. Hopefully it's something that can be addressed in firmware.
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post #2636 of 9864 Old 10-10-2012, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

Hopefully it's something that can be addressed in firmware.

I hope so too because otherwise I would expect them to recall all AVRs.

Markus

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post #2637 of 9864 Old 10-10-2012, 09:20 AM
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I am acquiring the Onkyo 818 to replace a 17 year old Onkyo 80 watt receiver. All this time I have been mixing ohms on my speakers and did not realize it.

I have two Polk Vintage SDA Tower speakers that sound great, but they are 4 ohm. My Boston Acoustics Center Channel and two rear surround speakers are 8 ohm.

Should I replace the center channel and rear surround with 4 or 6 ohm speakers once I install the 818?
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post #2638 of 9864 Old 10-10-2012, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

I hope so too because otherwise I would expect them to recall all AVRs.

There is no way they will recall over this or even offer swap-out or refunds. The problem only affects enthusiasts who care about video performance, which is probably 10% of owners at most.
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post #2639 of 9864 Old 10-10-2012, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

There is no way they will recall over this or even offer swap-out or refunds. The problem only affects enthusiasts who care about video performance, which is probably 10% of owners at most.

You're making a lot of assumptions about Onkyo and people who bought the 818. I just want a working AVR. There's a difference between 23.976 fps and 24 fps and the 818's HDMI Sub out knows about that difference. The HDMI Main out doesn't.

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post #2640 of 9864 Old 10-10-2012, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

You're making a lot of assumptions about Onkyo and people who bought the 818. I just want a working AVR. There's a difference between 23.976 fps and 24 fps and the 818's HDMI Sub out knows about that difference. The HDMI Main out doesn't.

My assumptions are based on the fact that, to the best of my knowledge, Onkyo have never offered a swapout or RMA over something like this. Good luck with that one. If the issue got more attention then perhaps they would be motivated to "save face" and get it fixed.

If they complain that the hardware implementation prevents this, then the option for those of us that care is to use the secondary HDMI or sell the unit and buy one that works... probably from another vendor.

I hope they DO fix it, I'm just not holding my breath. The fact that they are asking for "sample material" to see the problem demonstrates that they don't really understand the issue, which is scary... and sounds a lot like the dodges that Boxee pulled with audio dropouts on the Boxee Box (which they never fixed).
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