Onkyo TX-NR818 "official" owner's thread discussion - Page 94 - AVS Forum
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post #2791 of 9969 Old 10-28-2012, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

Where is my bass? No really where is it? How many times have we heard this? Well you just need to find it. I recently got my AVR back from ABL, the 809 for a HDMI sub out failure. It is repaired. I spent some time to be sure it was repaired but then needed to hook up the 818 and put it through its paces because I had not torture tested it. So in goes the Godsmack DVD and we listen to that DTS. Lot of playing around because that was a direct track but the 818 easily passes the test where an older Yammie fell on its' face and shut down at reference levels and even toasted one of my speakers. Here is what I want to say, after playing around a bit, I have found that the Dolby Digital EX TV Logic setting is a very good option and really puts out the bass in my setup. Just what I saw. Give it a try for TV viewing because it works well for me. Of course for movie viewing from BDs go direct.

Lol wish I knew what you were talking about. I'm going to run some blurays through mine but I still haven't even ran the setup on my 818
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post #2792 of 9969 Old 10-29-2012, 11:51 AM
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I'm finding now that after re-running the Audyssey setup with the suggested mic placement from IgorZep I have better sounding high frequencies (running Dynamic EQ in "Music" mode). This was obvious right from the start after redoing the calibration, but I have also found that things have improved considerably with more break in time. I know some folks don't necessarily believe in break in, so, YMMV.

On the networking front, I still cannot get the 818 to playback my files in the correct order, no matter what I do. I've checked the meta data, the file numbering, I've even copied them to a different directory. "Albums" are still being played out of order. Oddly enough, my iTunes directory doesn't seem to be affected, only the directories holding files from HD Tracks and FLAC files I either ripped myself or transfered from BDs from AIX or 2L. Hmm. Won't go into the audio drop out issue, since that's a lost cause at this point. rolleyes.gif

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post #2793 of 9969 Old 10-29-2012, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoy View Post

I'm finding now that after re-running the Audyssey setup with the suggested mic placement from IgorZep I have better sounding high frequencies (running Dynamic EQ in "Music" mode). This was obvious right from the start after redoing the calibration.

Unfortunately for me after repositioning fronts and recalibrating again I again got harsh highs and my own recommendation doesn't help now. Another thing I noted is that sound sometimes come from the back even when surrounds are off, so obviously too much reflection from the back wall. So, I have tried today to put some hi-frequency absorbing material to the back wall and compare. The results are interesting - with Audyssey off highs are extremely clear and ringing. With Audyssey on - they are not clear anymore, becoming harsh and tremulous, sounds like some kind of jitter. So, my theory then... As it is known that Audyssey makes correction not only in frequency domain but also in time domain heavy reflective room confuses it and it tries to correct in time domain too agressively making things much worse instead of improving sound. The problem is not that highs over-amplified, the problem is that they are distorted by Audyssey... Very unfortunate effect as otherwise I like very much how it corrects bass and mids, after some calculation bug on mid-bass disappeared for me they are truly improved an orders of magnitude, but this effect on highs making the whole thing so ridiculous. I am finding a way to properly treat my back wall acoustically an then will recalibrate again. I hope after most problematic reflections are gone Audyssey will not have such crazy behavior on highs!
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Originally Posted by GoldenBoy View Post

On the networking front, I still cannot get the 818 to playback my files in the correct order, no matter what I do. I've checked the meta data, the file numbering, I've even copied them to a different directory. "Albums" are still being played out of order.

Ahh, "Albums"... I newer use them. I always chose Author/Album or Author Index as there are just too many entries in Albums... But when my NAS was empty I probably tested that choice and had same problem as you... This is what I told before - I remember I've seen it somewhere but cannot reproduce, probably because I stopped using Albums. I will check it when time permits.
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post #2794 of 9969 Old 10-29-2012, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

Unfortunately for me after repositioning fronts and recalibrating again I again got harsh highs and my own recommendation doesn't help now. Another thing I noted is that sound sometimes come from the back even when surrounds are off, so obviously too much reflection from the back wall. So, I have tried today to put some hi-frequency absorbing material to the back wall and compare. The results are interesting - with Audyssey off highs are extremely clear and ringing. With Audyssey on - they are not clear anymore, becoming harsh and tremulous, sounds like some kind of jitter. So, my theory then... As it is known that Audyssey makes correction not only in frequency domain but also in time domain heavy reflective room confuses it and it tries to correct in time domain too agressively making things much worse instead of improving sound. The problem is not that highs over-amplified, the problem is that they are distorted by Audyssey... Very unfortunate effect as otherwise I like very much how it corrects bass and mids, after some calculation bug on mid-bass disappeared for me they are truly improved an orders of magnitude, but this effect on highs making the whole thing so ridiculous. I am finding a way to properly treat my back wall acoustically an then will recalibrate again. I hope after most problematic reflections are gone Audyssey will not have such crazy behavior on highs!

Ah, it's interesting you mention jitter, because I do think I am hearing some sort of jitter in the high frequencies, still, while playing back high-res files (higher than 48/24) via network/NAS via Ethernet. I just don't think it is handling hi-res playback properly over the network, hence the audio dropouts.
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Originally Posted by IgorZep 
Ahh, "Albums"... I newer use them. I always chose Author/Album or Author Index as there are just too many entries in Albums... But when my NAS was empty I probably tested that choice and had same problem as you... This is what I told before - I remember I've seen it somewhere but cannot reproduce, probably because I stopped using Albums. I will check it when time permits.

Well, if I want to just listen to, say, Dark Side of the Moon or Kind of Blue, Albums is the way to go, not that Dark Side of the Moon is even an option with the 818 given its lack of gapless support, that would be absolute torture. eek.gif

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post #2795 of 9969 Old 10-30-2012, 12:11 AM
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Sent a reminder to Onkyo support Germany regarding the 24fps bug. They don't have any updated information yet.

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
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post #2796 of 9969 Old 10-30-2012, 06:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Sent a reminder to Onkyo support Germany regarding the 24fps bug. They don't have any updated information yet.

Yeah, i'm not surprised.
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post #2797 of 9969 Old 10-30-2012, 01:05 PM
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Hello All! I just got my Onkyo about a week ago, and so far so good! I didn't listen without having use the Audyssey setup feature, but I'm happy with the sound so far. Between the center speaker replacement I made when I upgraded to the Onkyo (Polk CS20) the highs are very crisp and clear after just one round of Audyssey calibration with three listening locations. I have also upgraded to the most recent firmware.

So what else do I need to know? 94 pages is a lot of reading to catch up on :P are there cliff notes somewhere? Did the bikini pics mentioned in page 1 ever get posted?!?
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post #2798 of 9969 Old 10-30-2012, 10:51 PM
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Pulled the trigger and bought an 818 a couple of weekends ago... a few things have bugged me so far...

1) Last night the receiver hung... could not turn it off. Cycled the powerstrip and it seems ok now. I am running the latest firmware.
2) The lack of a 12v trigger for zone 1 is annoying. I've got an external amp i'm using for the front L/R... I guess I have to solve it with one of these or these
3) Not set up any kind of surround. For starters just doing stereo and a pair of speakers on the patio. I keep getting nervous about what will happen when I try to spin up the 5.1 + zone 2 using an external amp for the zone 1 front L/R
4) The pre-out for the front L/R seems to be working just fine (though perhaps with a little less punch than what my old Nak used to do... even though it's still going through the power amp). It's odd that the setup menu is still asking what OHM speakers i'm using for the front L/R when it's just going out the pre-out.
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post #2799 of 9969 Old 10-31-2012, 06:15 AM
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For anyone interested, my review of the TX-NR818 went up this morning.

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post #2800 of 9969 Old 10-31-2012, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

For anyone interested, my review of the TX-NR818 went up this morning.

Will take a look at it
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post #2801 of 9969 Old 10-31-2012, 10:29 AM
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edit*****sorry

ONKYO TX-NR818 AVR RECEIVER
7 CHANNEL SPEAKERS FROM ONKYO HT-S5400 SERIES HTIB
2 CHANNEL MIRAGE HD SPEAKERS USED FOR FW'S
POLK AUDIO .1 CHANNEL PSW-110 SUB WOOFER
VIZIO 42" E3D420VX 3D/SMART TV
COMCAST CABLE/ CISCO RNG200N DVR BOX
LG 3D BLU-RAY PLAYER BP620
LOGITECH REVUE / GOOGLE TV STB
PC:...
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post #2802 of 9969 Old 10-31-2012, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikes2cents View Post

Where is my bass? No really where is it? How many times have we heard this? Well you just need to find it. I recently got my AVR back from ABL, the 809 for a HDMI sub out failure. It is repaired. I spent some time to be sure it was repaired but then needed to hook up the 818 and put it through its paces because I had not torture tested it. So in goes the Godsmack DVD and we listen to that DTS. Lot of playing around because that was a direct track but the 818 easily passes the test where an older Yammie fell on its' face and shut down at reference levels and even toasted one of my speakers. Here is what I want to say, after playing around a bit, I have found that the Dolby Digital EX TV Logic setting is a very good option and really puts out the bass in my setup. Just what I saw. Give it a try for TV viewing because it works well for me. Of course for movie viewing from BDs go direct.
f)5. Since I ran Audyssey everything sounds great - but where has my bass gone?

The most likely cause of weak bass is playing the system well below reference level. If your AVR includes Dynamic EQ, then turn it on and see if the bass comes in where expected. If there is no DEQ, then you must raise the subwoofer level yourself to get closer to correct spectral balance at moderate/low listening levels. (Thanks to AVS member Roger Dressler for this observation).

If you are listening at reference levels or have Dynamic EQ engaged and are still unhappy with your bass, chances are, if your calibration followed the Setup Guide recommendations, it hasn't gone anywhere. What you are now hearing is flat, 'reference' bass and this can take some time to get used to. Before you did your Audyssey calibration, chances are that room modes were causing large peaks and nulls in you bass response. If one or more of those peaks happened to coincide with a particular frequency that you experienced often - eg an explosion in an action movie - then that bass frequency would be exaggerated and you may have simply become used to it. When the peak is removed you can think something is 'missing'. The best advice is to listen for a week or two with the system exactly the way Audyssey calibrated it. Over this period you will become familiar with what flat bass sounds like - it will be 'tighter', 'leaner', more 'tuneful' and less 'flabby', 'boomy' or 'bloated'. If after listening for a couple of weeks you still feel that you would prefer a little more bass, then it is perfectly acceptable to turn up the trim in your AVR menu (see the specific question about that in the FAQ - linked below).

Most people find that Audyssey does a good job of correcting the bass in their room but do be aware that bass EQ gets better, the better version of MultEQ that you use. 2EQ, the entry level version, does not actually EQ the bass at all. MultEQ and MultEQ XT does a pretty good job and MultEQ XT32 does a superb job.

I recommend using music rather than a movie to evaluate your bass, as the bass in movies can 'come and go' quite quickly - also, you probably have a far better idea of what a bass guitar sounds like than what an explosion in the Nakatomi Plaza Building sounds like. A good instrumental track with a well played bass guitar or double bass will let you hear the difference Audyssey really makes. I usually use any track featuring Stanley Clarke on bass. You will hear every note, played at the loudness the musician intended, with no 'missing' or exaggerated notes. It should sound rhythmic and tuneful. Try turning Audyssey off and comparing the before and after!

Finally, remember that there is no substitute for getting your sub or subs placed properly in your room before running Audyssey. Audyssey cannot work miracles. Sub placement is outside the scope if this FAQ but if you google it there are numerous excellent guides out there. To start you off I've included a link below to a very good Audioholics article.
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ONKYO TX-NR818 AVR RECEIVER
7 CHANNEL SPEAKERS FROM ONKYO HT-S5400 SERIES HTIB
2 CHANNEL MIRAGE HD SPEAKERS USED FOR FW'S
POLK AUDIO .1 CHANNEL PSW-110 SUB WOOFER
VIZIO 42" E3D420VX 3D/SMART TV
COMCAST CABLE/ CISCO RNG200N DVR BOX
LG 3D BLU-RAY PLAYER BP620
LOGITECH REVUE / GOOGLE TV STB
PC:...
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post #2803 of 9969 Old 10-31-2012, 11:58 AM
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Anyone else able to get the "Play To" menu to work inside windows 8 with the 818? I get a error saying it cant be controlled, and the receiver is not Windows certified.
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post #2804 of 9969 Old 10-31-2012, 12:20 PM
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Anyone else able to get the "Play To" menu to work inside windows 8 with the 818? I get a error saying it cant be controlled, and the receiver is not Windows certified.

It is enough that both are DLNA certified! Should work, or they should fix the defect... Unfortunately doesn't work for me on Win7 too frown.gif
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post #2805 of 9969 Old 10-31-2012, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by cfineman View Post

2) The lack of a 12v trigger for zone 1 is annoying. I've got an external amp i'm using for the front L/R...

I solved this for my subwoofer by taking 5V from the rear USB. Works pretty good as the 12V main trigger! AFAIK Anything between 3.3V and 12V should work as a trigger.
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post #2806 of 9969 Old 10-31-2012, 02:58 PM
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If I use the pre outs to a 5 channel amp (for 5.1). Can I power the rear speakers (the 7.1) with the 818?

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post #2807 of 9969 Old 10-31-2012, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

I solved this for my subwoofer by taking 5V from the rear USB. Works pretty good as the 12V main trigger! AFAIK Anything between 3.3V and 12V should work as a trigger.

So you can’t trigger a power amp in the main system with the 818?

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post #2808 of 9969 Old 10-31-2012, 07:43 PM
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It is enough that both are DLNA certified! Should work, or they should fix the defect... Unfortunately doesn't work for me on Win7 too frown.gif

Are the music files located on the same system as WMP?

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post #2809 of 9969 Old 11-01-2012, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

For anyone interested, my review of the TX-NR818 went up this morning.

Very nice review. Comprehensive and well written.
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post #2810 of 9969 Old 11-01-2012, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by babgvant View Post

Are the music files located on the same system as WMP?

I was unable "play to" 818 both the local files (the demos coming with WMP) and remote ones (my files on DLNA server). The files from DLNA server can be played by 818 itself through its internal DLNA controller. Although I cannot play local WMP files on my Samsung TV also, flac files on DLNA server are perfectly working with "Play to" from WMP to TV, but not to the 818.
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post #2811 of 9969 Old 11-01-2012, 08:31 AM
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I've read about the issues with deepcolor / x.v when using a PS3, and the solution is to turn it off.

Is this something that affects PS3 only?
If I use a BR or an HTPC and enable deepcolor/x.v. will it cause the same issues?


Thanks!
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post #2812 of 9969 Old 11-01-2012, 10:12 AM
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Very nice review. Comprehensive and well written.

Thanks!

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post #2813 of 9969 Old 11-01-2012, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

I was unable "play to" 818 both the local files (the demos coming with WMP) and remote ones (my files on DLNA server). The files from DLNA server can be played by 818 itself through its internal DLNA controller. Although I cannot play local WMP files on my Samsung TV also, flac files on DLNA server are perfectly working with "Play to" from WMP to TV, but not to the 818.

WMP handles remote files poorly by default (it doesn't impersonate when using PlayTo), which is why I asked.

That's a really strange matrix. FWIW, I'm not a big fan of WMP's DLNA capabilities. If you use the feature a lot JRiver Media Center is worth the $.

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post #2814 of 9969 Old 11-01-2012, 12:47 PM
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"Play To" worked fine when I had Windows 7. Not sure what you guys are doing wrong.

Home Theatre:
Onkyo TX-NR818
Onkyo C7030

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post #2815 of 9969 Old 11-01-2012, 02:07 PM
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WMP handles remote files poorly by default (it doesn't impersonate when using PlayTo), which is why I asked.
That's a really strange matrix. FWIW, I'm not a big fan of WMP's DLNA capabilities. If you use the feature a lot JRiver Media Center is worth the $.

Why should it impersonate... I have tried foobar2000 with the same result - can play from DLNA server to TV, but not to 818. But I can change volume on 818 on both... better would be if files are played but volume was not changing according to WMP commands as the volume control on WMP is just terrible and even dangerous considering the power of 818 and the number of dB you can get by just an accidental click. eek.gif
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post #2816 of 9969 Old 11-01-2012, 02:54 PM
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if you hook a blue ray player directly to an hdtv that supports 24fps then out the arc through hdmi to the 818 would this bypass the bug ?
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post #2817 of 9969 Old 11-01-2012, 02:55 PM
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"Play To" worked fine when I had Windows 7. Not sure what you guys are doing wrong.


No idea, I can get it to play files fine on my panasonic TV, (using Play To menu) I think it did work in windows 7, but since i didnt use the feature that often i dont remember for sure.

Files also play on the built in DNLA app.
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post #2818 of 9969 Old 11-01-2012, 02:58 PM
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"Play To" worked fine when I had Windows 7. Not sure what you guys are doing wrong.


No idea, I can get it to play files fine on my panasonic TV, (using Play To menu) I think it did work in windows 7, but since i didnt use the feature that often i dont remember for sure.

Files also play on the built in DNLA app.
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post #2819 of 9969 Old 11-01-2012, 04:10 PM
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if you hook a blue ray player directly to an hdtv that supports 24fps then out the arc through hdmi to the 818 would this bypass the bug ?

This will bypass 24fps bug but most TV will downsample any sound except DD5.1 to stereo or even just refuse to pass it through, so you can lose DTS and any other multichannel sound. Check with your TV what it can send over ARC.
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post #2820 of 9969 Old 11-01-2012, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post

Why should it impersonate... :

WMP runs under your user credentials so you can add/play files located on a remote, authenticated share locally (assuming the account has rights). Impersonation is necessary because the service that handles PlayTo runs as Network Service by default. Unless the share has very lax authentication requirements it will not be able to access the files and everything breaks down. The best workaround that I've been able to come up with is to change the service credentials to use mine, but that's not ideal.

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