Upgrade (5 year old) Pio Elite 91TXH to Denon 2312 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 9 Old 05-30-2012, 09:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Posted this generic question a while back, but have now narrowed my search to the Denon Series..

I don't like that the Denon isn't THX Certified (research suggests not to worry about that), but would a 5 year old Elite amplifier hold ground to a newer 2312 Series?

* Side note, there is buzzing in the speakers which can only be heard at low volumes, after trial and error, I believe this is resonating from the Pio Elite itself as I have taken all other factors out of the equation. This is part of the reason for my search.
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post #2 of 9 Old 05-30-2012, 09:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Helen277 View Post

The one thing that would kill the game would be co-op/multiplayer.

?? Lost with that last remark...
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post #3 of 9 Old 05-30-2012, 10:03 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BR1060 View Post

Posted this generic question a while back, but have now narrowed my search to the Denon Series..

I don't like that the Denon isn't THX Certified (research suggests not to worry about that), but would a 5 year old Elite amplifier hold ground to a newer 2312 Series?

* Side note, there is buzzing in the speakers which can only be heard at low volumes, after trial and error, I believe this is resonating from the Pio Elite itself as I have taken all other factors out of the equation. This is part of the reason for my search.

I have a Denon 5308, and it is THX Ultra2 certified. The best receiver ever made. Anyway, the new Denons are made in China, but they have just been released a few weeks ago. I doubt if anyone can make a comparison yet on these new Denon receivers. I would check out receiver first, and to see if that is the problem. The biggest advantage that I like about Denon is that firmware is upgradeable. They kept adding features and improving the receiver.
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post #4 of 9 Old 05-30-2012, 10:06 PM
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Nitro,

The 2312 is a year old...the xx13 are the new models. Plenty of info on the 2312.

Afro GT
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post #5 of 9 Old 05-30-2012, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BR1060 View Post

Posted this generic question a while back, but have now narrowed my search to the Denon Series..

I don't like that the Denon isn't THX Certified (research suggests not to worry about that), but would a 5 year old Elite amplifier hold ground to a newer 2312 Series?

* Side note, there is buzzing in the speakers which can only be heard at low volumes, after trial and error, I believe this is resonating from the Pio Elite itself as I have taken all other factors out of the equation. This is part of the reason for my search.

Yes any receiver with like performance can hold ground. I downgraded from my AVR-3803 to the AVR-2312ci which is 8 years newer. I'm keeping my AVR-3803 unless someone can give me over $300 for it. No, it won't be by delivery (as packing costs eat so much into the selling price) but in person and no, I'm not selling it here. Right now I'm wanting to keep it.

I'm assuming that your receiver can use 7.1 PCM signals as many could back then. If so, no reason to upgrade as most BD players can convert bitstream into LPCM 7.1 so you'll get all the benefits of the newer formats.

You'll obviously gain 3D switching but if you buy a BD player with dual HDMI output, it's not a problem with your current receiver. 1 HDMI to the receiver for HD Audio formats and 1 HDMI to the TV for 3D. If you have a 3D cable box as I do, it's still no problem. Broadcast is still DD5.1 so just put the HDMI directly to the TV and send the optical/coaxial digital audio connection to your TV. If you want ease of switching through the receiver, use the HD component video output of the cable box and use the HDMI only for 3D content. Right now, Comcast only puts out 1080i anyhow.

Other than those 2 media devices, I don't see why your receiver would be obsolete.

My Denon AVR-3803 was obsolete due to no HDMI switching, no HDMI HD audio format decoding including LPCM 7.1, no DPL IIx or DPL IIz.

I only went to the AVR-2312ci for ease of HDMI audio switching for the wife and to get rid of so many cables going to the TV which are nothing but pull cords for kids. Plus having 7.1 decoding for all audio formats instead of 6.1 plus the new HD audio formats is a plus.

Other than the switching convenience and surround upgrade to 7.1 DPL IIx/DD/DTS/HD audio, I didn't gain much. I found the Audyssey useless for room, as it won't work correctly without screwing up all the settings.

The AVR-3803 shines more with Stereo power as it can put out over 250 watts/channel into 4 ohms judging by the following years AVR-3805 power output according to S&V and HTM, and it's AL 24 processing.

Overall though, the processing in the AVR-2312ci is better with more configurable crossover setting for each speaker and not just globally for all. It also has more fine tuning for direct stereo sources.

Since I don't really need more power output, the AVR-2312ci does pretty good. In it's own right, it still delivers power output equivalent to some receiver maker's, 1 full model class above it.

At least compared to my AVR-3803, it's connectivity is much MUCH more limited not even having a phono input or a dedicated audio recording loop. Years ago, this model class would have both. In fact the AVR-2803 shared all 10 analog audio/video inputs of the AVR-3803 along with it's 2 A/V recording loops and 1 audio recording loop.

Since most like to record lossy, bit throw away, formats now a days, makers have done away with the dedicated audio recording loop. A/V recording loops have disappeared on many 2012 model year receivers most likely due to cable/satellite DVRs being so popular as many don't archive to DVD-R. I do, so I need both A/V and audio recording loops.

If I were in your shoes, I'd keep that Elite Receiver. However if you have a buzz in your speakers, you're receiver may be getting ready to quit on you. If you can find a source of intereference and fix it, then it's good to go. Otherwise, you may really need to get a new receiver as yours might just fail.

Good luck in your decision.
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post #6 of 9 Old 05-31-2012, 12:13 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchoolMETAL View Post

Yes any receiver with like performance can hold ground. I downgraded from my AVR-3803 to the AVR-2312ci which is 8 years newer. I'm keeping my AVR-3803 unless someone can give me over $300 for it. No, it won't be by delivery (as packing costs eat so much into the selling price) but in person and no, I'm not selling it here. Right now I'm wanting to keep it.

I'm assuming that your receiver can use 7.1 PCM signals as many could back then. If so, no reason to upgrade as most BD players can convert bitstream into LPCM 7.1 so you'll get all the benefits of the newer formats.

You'll obviously gain 3D switching but if you buy a BD player with dual HDMI output, it's not a problem with your current receiver. 1 HDMI to the receiver for HD Audio formats and 1 HDMI to the TV for 3D. If you have a 3D cable box as I do, it's still no problem. Broadcast is still DD5.1 so just put the HDMI directly to the TV and send the optical/coaxial digital audio connection to your TV. If you want ease of switching through the receiver, use the HD component video output of the cable box and use the HDMI only for 3D content. Right now, Comcast only puts out 1080i anyhow.

Other than those 2 media devices, I don't see why your receiver would be obsolete.

My Denon AVR-3803 was obsolete due to no HDMI switching, no HDMI HD audio format decoding including LPCM 7.1, no DPL IIx or DPL IIz.

I only went to the AVR-2312ci for ease of HDMI audio switching for the wife and to get rid of so many cables going to the TV which are nothing but pull cords for kids. Plus having 7.1 decoding for all audio formats instead of 6.1 plus the new HD audio formats is a plus.

Other than the switching convenience and surround upgrade to 7.1 DPL IIx/DD/DTS/HD audio, I didn't gain much. I found the Audyssey useless for room, as it won't work correctly without screwing up all the settings.

The AVR-3803 shines more with Stereo power as it can put out over 250 watts/channel into 4 ohms judging by the following years AVR-3805 power output according to S&V and HTM, and it's AL 24 processing.

Overall though, the processing in the AVR-2312ci is better with more configurable crossover setting for each speaker and not just globally for all. It also has more fine tuning for direct stereo sources.

Since I don't really need more power output, the AVR-2312ci does pretty good. In it's own right, it still delivers power output equivalent to some receiver maker's, 1 full model class above it.

At least compared to my AVR-3803, it's connectivity is much MUCH more limited not even having a phono input or a dedicated audio recording loop. Years ago, this model class would have both. In fact the AVR-2803 shared all 10 analog audio/video inputs of the AVR-3803 along with it's 2 A/V recording loops and 1 audio recording loop.

Since most like to record lossy, bit throw away, formats now a days, makers have done away with the dedicated audio recording loop. A/V recording loops have disappeared on many 2012 model year receivers most likely due to cable/satellite DVRs being so popular as many don't archive to DVD-R. I do, so I need both A/V and audio recording loops.

If I were in your shoes, I'd keep that Elite Receiver. However if you have a buzz in your speakers, you're receiver may be getting ready to quit on you. If you can find a source of intereference and fix it, then it's good to go. Otherwise, you may really need to get a new receiver as yours might just fail.

Good luck in your decision.

Lets assume I can find the buzzing and get it resolved - if I were to compare 5 year old MCACC technology vs newer Audessey technology (and whatever improvements have transpired in the last 5 years) am I going to notice any major difference in sound?
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post #7 of 9 Old 05-31-2012, 04:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Nitro,

The 2312 is a year old...the xx13 are the new models. Plenty of info on the 2312.

Oh, I thought he said 2313. Regardless, I look at the 2313, since it upscales for 4k. http://usa.denon.com/US/Product/Page...I%28DenonNA%29

or I look at this model.
AVR-3313
http://usa.denon.com/US/Product/Page...I%28DenonNA%29
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post #8 of 9 Old 05-31-2012, 04:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldSchoolMETAL View Post

Other than the switching convenience and surround upgrade to 7.1 DPL IIx/DD/DTS/HD audio, I didn't gain much. I found the Audyssey useless for room, as it won't work correctly without screwing up all the settings.

Audyssey works great! Actually, I think there is a faq on this forum to do it. You will have to do some minor adjusting of your settings, but it works fine. I never read the Faq, but I see it says mount the mic on a camera tripod.

http://www.willowville.net/ht/Audyss...up%20Guide.pdf

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=795421

Denon's Audyssey vs. Pioneer's MCACC
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=791618
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post #9 of 9 Old 05-31-2012, 04:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BR1060 View Post

Lets assume I can find the buzzing and get it resolved - if I were to compare 5 year old MCACC technology vs newer Audessey technology (and whatever improvements have transpired in the last 5 years) am I going to notice any major difference in sound?


I posted a link to your comparison, but lot has changed with receiver in the last five years. HDMI has also changed, so if you plan on a 4k tv in the near future. Then you need a new receiver.
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