Looking to upgrade: Pioneer Elite or Integra? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 06-01-2012, 06:16 PM - Thread Starter
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I am currently running a 5.1 system with a Yamaha HTR-5660 with Polk Audio RTi8 for my front, RTi6 for my back, a CSi3 for my center, and a BIC America Venturi 1220 sub.

I love the way my unit sounds, but I have been wanting to get a newer receiver than can handle the new audio codecs from Blu-Ray players. I initially looked at Yamaha receivers, but to me it seems like a Pioneer Elite or Integra receiver would yield best bang for the buck as well as performance.

I am specifically looking at the Pioneer Elite VSX-60 and either the Integra DTR-20.3 or 20.4 units. I was debating the Sherwood Newcastle R-972 but it seems to be buggy (or that is what I am reading of forum posts). I also have been looking at the Onkyo TX-NR616

I am not familiar with the functionality of the Pioneer or Integra systems, but the feature lists seem to be good.

Can any of you recommend a solid receiver for my setup? I will be watching mostly TV and movies, but I plan to listen to more music since these units are network ready and I will be able to stream tunes from my laptop.

Thanks for any information, tips and advice in advance!

Cole
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post #2 of 22 Old 06-01-2012, 07:58 PM
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The Pioneer is probably the most iTunes friendly of the bunch and reliable.
Integra/Onkyo have always been feature packed for the money but have experienced more than usual failures of late.
Denon also offers a pretty good feature set that seems to be pretty reliable.
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post #3 of 22 Old 06-01-2012, 08:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I am not an iTunes user or even own anything Apple, so I am not worried about that. I am mostly interested in having a great sounding, reliable receiver.

Which brand is the least likely to have issues? My Yamaha is still going strong, I just feel that it is time to upgrade.

Cole
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post #4 of 22 Old 06-01-2012, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColeJustesen View Post

I am not an iTunes user or even own anything Apple, so I am not worried about that. I am mostly interested in having a great sounding, reliable receiver.

Which brand is the least likely to have issues? My Yamaha is still going strong, I just feel that it is time to upgrade.

Cole

Yamahas are very solid. If you want to step it up, look at the Yamaha aventage line.

The new vx models have a lot of trickle down goodies from the aventages, including networking.
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post #5 of 22 Old 06-01-2012, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ColeJustesen View Post

I am currently running a 5.1 system with a Yamaha HTR-5660 with Polk Audio RTi8 for my front, RTi6 for my back, a CSi3 for my center, and a BIC America Venturi 1220 sub.

I love the way my unit sounds, but I have been wanting to get a newer receiver than can handle the new audio codecs from Blu-Ray players. I initially looked at Yamaha receivers, but to me it seems like a Pioneer Elite or Integra receiver would yield best bang for the buck as well as performance.

I am specifically looking at the Pioneer Elite VSX-60 and either the Integra DTR-20.3 or 20.4 units. I was debating the Sherwood Newcastle R-972 but it seems to be buggy (or that is what I am reading of forum posts). I also have been looking at the Onkyo TX-NR616

I am not familiar with the functionality of the Pioneer or Integra systems, but the feature lists seem to be good.

Can any of you recommend a solid receiver for my setup? I will be watching mostly TV and movies, but I plan to listen to more music since these units are network ready and I will be able to stream tunes from my laptop.

Thanks for any information, tips and advice in advance!

Cole

For whatever it's worth I don't see any reason to upgrade for your uses. If you want to try 7.1 then maybe....are you buying additional speakers?

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post #6 of 22 Old 06-01-2012, 08:29 PM - Thread Starter
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The Aventage caught my eye too and so did the RX-V673. I am a huge Yamaha fan boy and to even look at other brands feels like I am cheating

I love all things Yamaha, especially there guitars and motorcycles!

Cole
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post #7 of 22 Old 06-01-2012, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post


For whatever it's worth I don't see any reason to upgrade for your uses. If you want to try 7.1 then maybe....are you buying additional speakers?

No I am not. I really just want to get something than can decode the new audio codecs that my receiver can't decode.

Cole
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post #8 of 22 Old 06-01-2012, 08:38 PM
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You're looking at high end receivers, cheap ones can do what you want.
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post #9 of 22 Old 06-01-2012, 08:40 PM
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I'd stick with the Yamaha if you're after longevity. If you can step it up to the A2010, that has a really great video processor.
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post #10 of 22 Old 06-01-2012, 08:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post

You're looking at high end receivers, cheap ones can do what you want.

The way I look at it is that if I am going to spend the money, might as well get something that is more than just decent. I am looking at the $600 range which to me is still towards the low end in the big scheme of things.

Cole
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post #11 of 22 Old 06-01-2012, 08:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lionorion View Post

I'd stick with the Yamaha if you're after longevity. If you can step it up to the A2010, that has a really great video processor.

That model will be out of my range, but I imagine it would be sweet. If I stay with Yamaha, the A710 or A700 would be more of what I am looking at or the V673.

Cole
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post #12 of 22 Old 06-02-2012, 11:08 AM
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If you really don't need the latest internet and streaming features then look for a factory refurb from ac4l.com (Marantz, Onkyo, Denon) or a really good deal on lasts years models. Brand new receivers are way over-priced imo (especially Pioneer Elite and Integra). I just bought a Marantz 5005 refurb (2-3 years old, along with a 4003 and 7006) and it looks and performs good as new. Not quite the receiver the 7002 was a few years ago but very good none-the-less.

If you really like Pioneer Elite (I've had several) then consider their regular line as opposed to the Elite series. Not enough difference to justify the cost. The SC is considered the real Elites. Same goes for Onkyo instead of Integra. But don't get me wrong. I like them both. But I buy most of my stuff used. I picked up an Elite SC-27 for $600 shipped late last year off Audiogon. But I'm willing to take the risk. Can't blame anyone else who isn't.

But each brand has a way of doing things their own way. If you like the Yamaha you have then you might be better off sticking with them. Amazon has last years 671 for $420 shipped.

Amazon also has the H/K 2600 for about $350. Nice performing but a little short on the latest features. Not the most reliable either. The Denon 2112 ($488) is another good option.

In my experience, Pioneer has been very reliable and easy to use but Denon/Marantz might be the best of all worlds. I'd take a closer look at that 2112.
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post #13 of 22 Old 06-02-2012, 11:27 AM - Thread Starter
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That is some great information! I am not opposed to NOS or used receivers. As a matter of fact I was scoping a Pioneer Elite VSX-91TXH on ebay. That seems like quite the receiver, but I am thinking having the wireless network with the option of doing firmware upgrades sounds appealing.

Cole
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post #14 of 22 Old 06-02-2012, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gene c353 View Post

If you really don't need the latest internet and streaming features then look for a factory refurb from ac4l.com (Marantz, Onkyo, Denon) or a really good deal on lasts years models. Brand new receivers are way over-priced imo (especially Pioneer Elite and Integra). I just bought a Marantz 5005 refurb (2-3 years old, along with a 4003 and 7006) and it looks and performs good as new. Not quite the receiver the 7002 was a few years ago but very good none-the-less.

If you really like Pioneer Elite (I've had several) then consider their regular line as opposed to the Elite series. Not enough difference to justify the cost. The SC is considered the real Elites. Same goes for Onkyo instead of Integra. But don't get me wrong. I like them both. But I buy most of my stuff used. I picked up an Elite SC-27 for $600 shipped late last year off Audiogon. But I'm willing to take the risk. Can't blame anyone else who isn't.

But each brand has a way of doing things their own way. If you like the Yamaha you have then you might be better off sticking with them. Amazon has last years 671 for $420 shipped.

Amazon also has the H/K 2600 for about $350. Nice performing but a little short on the latest features. Not the most reliable either. The Denon 2112 ($488) is another good option.

In my experience, Pioneer has been very reliable and easy to use but Denon/Marantz might be the best of all worlds. I'd take a closer look at that 2112.

I would also say that if you don't need all of those features look at NAD. I read these threads about what new features are coming on this years models? How many features do you need? I hardly ever see anyone say I hope the power supplies are a little more robust. I hope there is a bit more juice. I hope the analog section is better for stereo listening.

But priorities are different I guess. Entry level. Really good price right now.

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=NAT748

Rick

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post #15 of 22 Old 06-02-2012, 12:13 PM
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No I am not. I really just want to get something than can decode the new audio codecs that my receiver can't decode.

Cole

Such as?

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post #16 of 22 Old 06-02-2012, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Such as?

I would imagine he is talking about Blu ray disc's.

I just picked up a Pioneer Elite SC-37 for a decent price not much over your budget.
If you look around the used market you shoould have no trouble finding one. I must say, this is more Receiver then i'll ever need. But it's nice to have the options should i ever want to use them.

A budget of 600-800 used will net you quite an upgrade over your current Receiver. For the Record.....if you like the Yamaha sound, i'd stick with it. They make a great Receiver. Having owned the 1900 model a few years back, i must say i enjoyed the sound and never once had any issues.

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post #17 of 22 Old 06-02-2012, 12:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

Such as?

It won't decode DTS-HD, Dobly TrueHD or any of the modern codecs that are associated with Blu-Ray. My player converts them and sends the audio to the receiver, but I would rather have my receiver do all that work. It also won't decode multi-channel PCM. When anything more than 2.0 PCM is used on a disc, my receiver cannot handle it and will play it as a 2.0 signal and then use Pro Logic, DTS Neo or something along those lines to make it "surround".

I would also like to have HDMI inputs, so that I can send HDMI from my Blu-Ray player and my HD DVR to it as my TV only has one HDMI input.

Cole
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post #18 of 22 Old 06-02-2012, 12:36 PM - Thread Starter
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I would imagine he is talking about Blu ray disc's.

I just picked up a Pioneer Elite SC-37 for a decent price not much over your budget.
If you look around the used market you shoould have no trouble finding one. I must say, this is more Receiver then i'll ever need. But it's nice to have the options should i ever want to use them.

A budget of 600-800 used will net you quite an upgrade over your current Receiver. For the Record.....if you like the Yamaha sound, i'd stick with it. They make a great Receiver. Having owned the 1900 model a few years back, i must say i enjoyed the sound and never once had any issues.

Thanks for the suggestion... I was just looking at the V671 to see what that model offers. As far as looking at the used market, is there a place that any of you would recommend me to look at?

Cole
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post #19 of 22 Old 06-02-2012, 12:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Can anyone tell me the main difference between Yamaha's Aventage line and their RX-V line?

Cole
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post #20 of 22 Old 06-02-2012, 01:19 PM
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Audiogon.com (and Videogon.com) but people selling there have a good idea what their stuff is worth. Good deals can be found though.Craigslist is a great place to find things on the cheap. Often times people list things on CL without really knowing what they're worth. Take the necessary precautions though. But so far I've met really nice people just buying and selling things like I do. The classifieds on internet forums like this one. If the listing starts to get a little old maybe they will negotiate.

Also check the clearance dept on websites like Vanns.com, Onecall.com, Crutchfield.com, etc. Open box and customer returns usually come with a full warranty.

Like Onkyo with it's Integra, Pioneer with it's Elite and Denon with their dual-numbering system Yamaha sells two lines. One to mass market retailers and one to specialty shops. There may be some minor differences like Custom Installer features, slightly different displays or faceplates and maybe higher quality internals and/or QC checks but they usually don't add up to the added cost, which in some cases is several hundred dollars. I always buy the higher end models (when available) but purely for vanity reasons. I'm sure I would be just as happy with the mass market stuff. Besides, most people buy way more receiver than they actually need.

If reliability is a major cancern then I'd get something with a warranty. Or buy off ebay to get a warranty from SquareTrade.
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post #21 of 22 Old 06-02-2012, 01:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the information on where to get used products and good prices.

I am currently really liking what the Yamaha RX-V671 has to offer, but not sure if the V673 would be better for future purposes. The only thing I don't know will be worth it or not to me in the future is the 4K upscaling/processing. Will the 4K options be available in TVs in the 46"-55" range? If not, then I probably don't need to worry about it.

Cole
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post #22 of 22 Old 06-02-2012, 01:53 PM
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I just read something about LG unveiling an 84" 4k display it's going to show at the 1012 CES. But I really don't know much about video processing, either in receivers or displays, but my guess is that 4k displays will be very expensive when they first come out so the 671 will probably be good for a few years unless you mortgage the house to get that 4k. But wait for someone to chime in who knows what they're talking about before making any decisions.
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