The "Official" Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A1020, RX-A2020 and RX-A3020 Thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 1804 Old 04-17-2013, 01:13 AM
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Anyone tested the new 1.58 firmware? More stable NET and updates for Pandora/Napster.

My receiver doesn't update itself. And when I check advanced settings, FW update is set to USB, and when I change to Network, it is changed back to USB the next time I enter advanced settings...

Anyways, I tried choosing network, and then info. It just redownloaded 1.41 or something. Guess I'll try USB tonight.

Spotify is most likely not included, but I've heard it is to come after Spotify changes their platform in June/July (hopefully).


I've had a lot of problems with AirPlay and Net radio, stuttering etc. No reason why it should - the network is 70mbit, and everything is on a 1GBit LAN.


I've also having some problems with YPAO and my subwoofer. YPAO sets all my speakers to Large, this isn't correct, only my fronts are. And when center is set to large, I'm having difficulties turning the subwoofer on. Anyways, now the fronts are the only ones set to large, and the sub is working, although it is very, very low, and it doesn't always turn on. I need to turn up the volume really loud to -20dB to make it initiate.

The sub pre-out seem to be very weak on the RX-A1020.

Btw. what did you set the crossover on the sub at? Mine is at 200hZ (max) and I've set the receiver to 80hZ. Should I lower it at the sub?
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post #632 of 1804 Old 04-17-2013, 02:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodimus22 View Post

It's on the outside of the box on a white sticker, if you still have it. Not sure about where it is on the unit, though.

Oh, thank you!
there it was in fact, and I was able to register it on Yamaha's site and gain a 3 three year warranty extension!

Now a little update for the oter problem: I did some testing and I'v not been able to see (in the OSD) the bitdepth displayed for audio files
being played and I've tried to play them from NAS/DLNA (Synology), from USB Key (btw, here a 96/24, 5.1 file played badly with lots of
noises and stuttering) and via a Logitech Squeezebox Touch via Coax...

Any help appreciated!
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post #633 of 1804 Old 04-17-2013, 02:34 AM
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Keep the crossover on the sub set all the way up. Keep changing the sub volume at the sub and rerunning YPAO until the sub volume in the avr is as close to 0 as you can get it. Then set ALL speakers to small and set the avr sub crossover to 80. This should fix the issues of low sub volume at all avr volume levels and the sub not coming on at low avr volume.

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post #634 of 1804 Old 04-17-2013, 03:39 AM
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Thanks!

But how about my fronts? They have a 8" woofer. I would like to send the frequencies to these also...

Or shouldn't I?

My speakers are Jamo S606 HCS3 and a Sub 660.
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post #635 of 1804 Old 04-17-2013, 04:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nordemoniac View Post

Thanks!

But how about my fronts? They have a 8" woofer. I would like to send the frequencies to these also...

Or shouldn't I?

My speakers are Jamo S606 HCS3 and a Sub 660.
You can if you want to but I dont recommend it. It has nothing to do with the capabilities of your Jamo's. I am just giving you the best standard recommended setup. If you find that it sounds better to you with the fronts set to large and it causes no issues then by all means keep it that way.

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post #636 of 1804 Old 04-17-2013, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nordemoniac View Post

But how about my fronts? They have a 8" woofer. I would like to send the frequencies to these also...

It sounds way better with all speakers set to small IMO, assuming you have a decent amplified sub. I just tried it the other night, and even though I have big tower speakers for my mains, I was pleasantly surprised with the results. If you don't like it, you can always switch back.

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post #637 of 1804 Old 04-17-2013, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Jupazuba View Post

Yamaha RX-A2020

A question about bi-amping. If I bi-amp my front speakers(widerange and midbass) does the amp run same signal to both of the speakers or use crossover between them? If yes to crossover can I change the settings by my self also if I`m not happy with the YPAO result?

Aynone knows? Do I need passive crossover between the speakes when using Bi-Amp connection or is the Yamaha able to separate frequencies to speakers?
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post #638 of 1804 Old 04-17-2013, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Jupazuba View Post

Aynone knows? Do I need passive crossover between the speakes when using Bi-Amp connection or is the Yamaha able to separate frequencies to speakers?
You would have to bypass the active crossovers in your speakers to get any benefits from biamping. No, the Yamaha is not able to separate the frequencies to the speakers and I dont believe that you will find an avr that does. If you want to biamp you would have to disable the crossovers in your speakers.

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post #639 of 1804 Old 04-17-2013, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

You would have to bypass the active crossovers in your speakers to get any benefits from biamping. No, the Yamaha is not able to separate the frequencies to the speakers and I dont believe that you will find an avr that does. If you want to biamp you would have to disable the crossovers in your speakers.

Thanks for your reply! Just to be sure I understood correctly. I have wideranges and midbasses as front speakers. If I connect wideranges to front channels and midbasses to front surround channels, Yamaha runs same signals to both speakers? I have no passive crossover for my speakers at the moment and this set hasn´t been used before. I`m just building it. So therefore I`m researhing if I need passive crossovers or not.
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post #640 of 1804 Old 04-17-2013, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jupazuba View Post

Thanks for your reply! Just to be sure I understood correctly. I have wideranges and midbasses as front speakers. If I connect wideranges to front channels and midbasses to front surround channels, Yamaha runs same signals to both speakers? I have no passive crossover for my speakers at the moment and this set hasn´t been used before. I`m just building it. So therefore I`m researhing if I need passive crossovers or not.
Your question is inconsistent with something that someone would ask who has enough experience to build speakers. Please specify and ask again. No 2 speakers ever get the same signal unless you are listening to them in Mono. If you are wondering if the avr will only send a widerange signal to the widerange speakers and only a midbass signal to the midbass speakers then the answer is No.
And also, What is a front surround speaker?

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post #641 of 1804 Old 04-17-2013, 09:16 AM
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Hmm.. I can't make it work.

No matter what I do YPAO sets my speakers to LARGE and subwoofer to -10.

Last test:

Sub -10
Fronts +3.5
Center +4.5
Surround +7

This makes no sense! Why would it turn them all up that much? Did I set the volume to low or something?

And the sub doesn't work at all now. The element isn't even moving. I tried setting all of them to small manually, but after a new YPAO test, they were all back to LARGE.


So I tried manually instead.

I set them all to small.

Fronts 0
Center 0
Surround +4
Sub +3.

Now i'm feeling the bass...

Why is this? YPAO couldn't match it at all?
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post #642 of 1804 Old 04-17-2013, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Your question is inconsistent with something that someone would ask who has enough experience to build speakers. Please specify and ask again. No 2 speakers ever get the same signal unless you are listening to them in Mono. If you are wondering if the avr will only send a widerange signal to the widerange speakers and only a midbass signal to the midbass speakers then the answer is No.
And also, What is a front surround speaker?

My lack of english makes a bit difficult to form a question in a way I would want it to be. But lets try.

Manual`s page 24 first connection. Bi-Amp connection using four channels of the amp. Front and EXTRA SP1. With `front surround` I ment EXTRA SP1. Sorry about that.

If I have built a box where is wide range and midbass in their separated sealed sections and would like to play them in Bi-Amp mode. So each speaker would get own wire from the amp. Wide ranges would need HP filter somewhere between 200-300Hz as well as midbasses needs LP filter. In Basic mode YPAO can do this between smaller speakers and subwoorer but can it do it in Bi-Amp mode in this case between wideranges and midbasses.

With different signals I ment for example 300-20000Hz and 80-300Hz. So maybe not different signal but different frequencies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

If you are wondering if the avr will only send a widerange signal to the widerange speakers and only a midbass signal to the midbass speakers then the answer is No.

I guess that answered to my question so I need passive crossover to do that.

I know a thing or two about these things so I`m just trying to fiqure out what the amp can do and what it cannot do so I know how to proceed. There is no mention in manual about this issue. Thanks for trying to undestand what I was about to smile.gif
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post #643 of 1804 Old 04-17-2013, 09:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nordemoniac View Post

Hmm.. I can't make it work.

No matter what I do YPAO sets my speakers to LARGE and subwoofer to -10.

Last test:

Sub -10
Fronts +3.5
Center +7
Surround +7

This makes no sense! Why would it turn them all up that much? Did I set the volume to low or something?

And the sub doesn't work at all now. The element isn't even moving. I tried setting all of them to small manually, but after a new YPAO test, they were all back to LARGE.


So I tried manually instead.

I set them all to small.

Fronts 0
Center 0
Surround +4
Sub +3.

Now i'm feeling the bass...

Why is this? YPAO couldn't match it at all?
It is common for YPAO to set the front speakers to large. Dont worry about it. Just change them to small.
As I said before you need to get the sub volume in the avr as close to 0 as you can. Dont be concerned about anything else right now. Keep turning the sub volume down a little and rerun YPAO until the sub volume in the avr is close to 0. Keep the crossover on the sub all the way up. Then post your results.

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post #644 of 1804 Old 04-17-2013, 09:43 AM
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OK, I tried again.

Put the sub volume knob to about 5%, and got to +1. Then the speakers were better. (All my speakers still recognized as LARGE though, set them to SMALL).
I now got:

FL: +0.0
RL:+0.5
C :+0.5
SL:+2
SR:+3
SUB:+1

I adjusted manually afterwards, with the test tone. Giving FL and FR both 0.0, and the center +1 (it was a bit lower than the fronts).

But while I could hear the sub under the measuring, I now can't hear the sub at all... It is set so low!
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post #645 of 1804 Old 04-17-2013, 09:52 AM
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Thats much better. This is what you need to do.
You want to always change the sub volume IN THE AVR. Since you want more sub volume, +1 doesnt give you a lot of room to play with. Turn the sub volume up slightly and rerun YPAO until you get about -5. This will give you more room to turn up the volume in the avr. It only goes to +10.
Do this and then set ALL speakers to small. AVR sub crossover to 80.
Then you can turn up the sub volume IN THE AVR to suit you.
DONT CHANGE THE VOLUMES OF ANY OTHER SPEAKERS.

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post #646 of 1804 Old 04-17-2013, 10:09 AM
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Thanks for helping!

I tried some more, but it quickly went under 0, and close to -10. It was hard to get it close to -5.

I now tried just setting the volume as low as it gets, and it still got to +1. So then I just set it to 0, and adjusted the volume knob on sub to 50% (as the owners manual suggests). This seems to be a nice volume for movies. I'm testing with Avatar at the moment, and if I put the volume any lower than this, I don't get the cinema-feeling...

Am I still doing something wrong?

I'm trying your suggestions. Didn't alter the other speakers this time, and crossover is set to 80 (even though YPAO sets it to 60).
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post #647 of 1804 Old 04-17-2013, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nordemoniac View Post

Thanks for helping!

I tried some more, but it quickly went under 0, and close to -10. It was hard to get it close to -5.

I now tried just setting the volume as low as it gets, and it still got to +1. So then I just set it to 0, and adjusted the volume knob on sub to 50% (as the owners manual suggests). This seems to be a nice volume for movies. I'm testing with Avatar at the moment, and if I put the volume any lower than this, I don't get the cinema-feeling...

Am I still doing something wrong?

I'm trying your suggestions. Didn't alter the other speakers this time, and crossover is set to 80 (even though YPAO sets it to 60).
Its not exactly textbook. tongue.gif But as long as you did not change the volume on any of the other speakers then you are just running the sub very hot (nothing to do with temp). If it sounds good to you then roll with it. Those Jamos are pretty nice. Thats probably why YPAO set the xover at 60. You should try it there and see what you think. Again, keep the xover on the sub all the way up. Enjoy! smile.gif

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post #648 of 1804 Old 04-17-2013, 10:32 AM
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Sub crossover at max, all speakers set to small.
Will test it further, everything is brand new, so I guess the woofers need to loosen up a bit as well.

Again - Thanks for helping me out! Turning down the sub volume did at least fix the messed up YPAO results.

Btw. FW 1.58 installed. Not noticing any changes though :P
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post #649 of 1804 Old 04-17-2013, 10:37 AM
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Youre welcome. Its unlikely it will make much difference but if you want to you might run YPAO again after you get 100 hrs or so on everything.

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post #650 of 1804 Old 04-17-2013, 04:35 PM
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I have a question for fellow canadians. Do you guys have access to the Pandora screen on the receiver? (I came across some server tweaks that might allow me access) I know that the service is not available here but I used to have an rxa-1010 and even though you could not connect to pandora per say it was still an option when cycling through the "net" button. I figured that both the us and canadian models are running the same firmwares and my theory is maybe somehow the 2020 is detecting my region and thus disabling specific options like pandora, napster and rhapsody. I tried calling yamaha to confirm this but they had no idea what I was talking about lol. Thanks in advance.
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post #651 of 1804 Old 04-17-2013, 08:29 PM
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All regional versions of a given Yamaha receiver model run the same firmware, but enable or disable certain features depending on the region the receiver was built for. So a receiver made to be sold in Canada won't support Pandora, and you won't see it come up no matter how many times you push the NET button. If you bought a receiver destined for the US market and imported into Canada then Pandora would show up when you press the NET button. The receiver has no way of knowing what country it's in. However Pandora still wouldn't work, at least not in the usual case, because Pandora's servers would detect you're in Canada and block access.

Is it possible that what you saw when you had an RX-A1010 was Napster? That service is (was?) supported in Canada by Yamaha receivers.
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post #652 of 1804 Old 04-17-2013, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Ridge View Post

All regional versions of a given Yamaha receiver model run the same firmware, but enable or disable certain features depending on the region the receiver was built for. So a receiver made to be sold in Canada won't support Pandora, and you won't see it come up no matter how many times you push the NET button. If you bought a receiver destined for the US market and imported into Canada then Pandora would show up when you press the NET button. The receiver has no way of knowing what country it's in. However Pandora still wouldn't work, at least not in the usual case, because Pandora's servers would detect you're in Canada and block access.

Is it possible that what you saw when you had an RX-A1010 was Napster? That service is (was?) supported in Canada by Yamaha receivers.

Ahh, that makes sense. I was curious after I came across something on the net that would apparently allow me access to pandora by changing DNS servers. It actually works well on the computer and I guess I wanted to test it out on the receiver. In any case it's not a big deal. It is possible that it was Napster, it's been at least 8 months since I had the 1010 and my memory is not the greatest. It is also possible that I could have been thinking of my fathers Marantz lol
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post #653 of 1804 Old 04-18-2013, 01:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Ridge View Post

All regional versions of a given Yamaha receiver model run the same firmware, but enable or disable certain features depending on the region the receiver was built for. So a receiver made to be sold in Canada won't support Pandora, and you won't see it come up no matter how many times you push the NET button. If you bought a receiver destined for the US market and imported into Canada then Pandora would show up when you press the NET button. The receiver has no way of knowing what country it's in. However Pandora still wouldn't work, at least not in the usual case, because Pandora's servers would detect you're in Canada and block access.

Is it possible that what you saw when you had an RX-A1010 was Napster? That service is (was?) supported in Canada by Yamaha receivers.
Great explanation.

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post #654 of 1804 Old 04-18-2013, 04:00 AM
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Hi,

I am having some issues with RX-A3010 with laserdiscs and VCR and I am wondering if anyone with RX-A3020 or RX-A2020 is having these issues. The problem is with composite/SVHS conversion to HDMI. When processing is off sometimes I get some black blinks. When processing is ON, at the same points where the black blink occurs the image goes black and take about 1 minute to return.
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post #655 of 1804 Old 04-18-2013, 09:46 PM
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I experimented with 5.1 bi-amping and posted this over in the 1010/2010/3010 thread earlier, but I'm putting it here in case someone looks for info on bi-amping the 1020 in the future. (The same thing applies to the 1010 and 1020 here.)

"Listened to several pieces of material that I am familiar with (5.1 for movies, stereo for music.) Also ran the test tone from the Disney WOW disc and adjusted the volume until all speakers read 75.0db. Hooked up the bi-amp, changed the receiver's amp assignments to 5.1+bi-amp, and repeated the listening of the same content and measured the same test tone with the receiver volume at the identical setting.

According to the SPL meter, the bi-amp setup added a whopping 0.6db to the L/R channels. Sound quality-wise...virtually no difference as far as my ears can tell. If I did a double-blind test, I'd be hard-pressed to accurately identify the bi-amp from the regular configuration, in either 5.1 or stereo.

Conclusion: Bi-amping does pretty much nothing, at least with my living room and equipment (6-ohm Paradigms.) I couldn't perceive any difference with my ears whatsoever. The only way I could tell there was any difference at all was with an SPL meter. I remember reading recently about the bi-amping feature (possibly on the feature list) and the exact phrase "for that extra punch" was used. That statement is laughable. If there is a difference, it's so tiny that 99.9% of the population won't hear it. For anyone wondering "What am I missing?" the answer is "nothing, really." Someone could have secretly bi-amped my system while I was away from the house today, and I would not have noticed a thing when I got home and listened to stuff. Save your speaker wire."

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post #656 of 1804 Old 04-18-2013, 11:41 PM
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The same thing will apply to any AVR.

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post #657 of 1804 Old 04-19-2013, 07:07 AM
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Due to the current limitations of most AVR's built-in power supplies, I believe you need separate power amplifiers

(and really good speakers) to have a decent chance of noticing any bi-amping advantage at volume ...unless you're only running 2 speakers

It doesn't take long to eat up any available power when all channels are driven , even on the RX-A3020

 

yamahagraph.jpg

 

RX-A2010

 

 

I have an older RX-V3900 (almost 5 years old) cool.gif

(I primarily use 5 channels, speakers are 92dB sensitivity)

 

2232009164957.jpg

 

[edit note] Bench Test charts source http://www.soundandvisionmag.com

 

I hope my 3900 lasts another 5 years, although there are times I feel I could use a wee bit more power

... I would HAVE to buy separates to power any of the newer modelsrolleyes.gif

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post #658 of 1804 Old 04-19-2013, 07:26 AM
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The graphs are impressive but irrelevant. It has nothing at all to do with power. You have to disable the crossovers in the speakers to get any benefit from biamping.

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post #659 of 1804 Old 04-19-2013, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

You have to disable the crossovers in the speakers to get any benefit from biamping.

Does that involve opening the speaker and performing "surgery" so to speak? Or are you referring to the removal of the metal bands between the binding posts?

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post #660 of 1804 Old 04-19-2013, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nicodimus22 View Post

Does that involve opening the speaker and performing "surgery" so to speak? Or are you referring to the removal of the metal bands between the binding posts?
Surgery.

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