The "Official" Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A1020, RX-A2020 and RX-A3020 Thread - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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Receivers, Amps, and Processors > The "Official" Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A1020, RX-A2020 and RX-A3020 Thread
GlennUK's Avatar GlennUK 06:58 AM 08-29-2013
YPAO issue here, as I am using the RX-A3020 for multi zone I have only 5.1 in the lounge which is fine as I knew this would be the case when I bought the receiver.

I am a bit confused though, I have configured the amp for 5.1 plus 2 zones so the receiver 'knows' what is in the main zone, plus I have also configured the speakers so that it 'knows' I only have to surround speakers and not rears as well.

When I run the auto set up, the receiver still tries to send test tones to the rears as well as if the setup is a 7.1 system. I have checked my configuration and all seems fine on that side, wondering if there is something I should do to optimise the setup and ensure the receiver is setting the outputs up correctly to get the best out of it?

I do realise I could manually setup the speakers and input my own variables (distance/height/speaker size/etc) but at the moment I have let the receiver do this.

Will no doubt tweak and feed majority of the bass back to the sub, although feeling and seeing the Monitor Audio R One HD (my LCR) move a bit of air out of the ports on the base was amusing and quite surprising for me.

Ross Ridge's Avatar Ross Ridge 08:30 AM 08-29-2013
Except for the power amp assign setting, YPAO ingores the current speaker settings and tries to auto-detect your speaker configuration. That's why it sends test tones to the surround back speakers. Since you apparently don't have surround back speakers you shouldn't have anything connected to the surround back speaker terminals and you shouldn't hear anything when YPAO tests them. If you do then you've hooked up your speakers incorrectly.

Assuming you're connecting your zone 2 and zone 3 speakers directly to your receiver and you're not using any external power amplifers, then you should be using the "7ch + 2ZONE" power amp setting and connecting the zone 2 and 3 speakers to the EXTRA SP1 and EXTRA SP2 speaker terminals respectively.
Bond 007's Avatar Bond 007 08:38 AM 08-29-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatinumSV View Post

That is correct. So than are you saying I should use the LPF in my Velodyne and set it between 80-120hz. Is this what is recommended due to yamaha not having a dedicated LFE LPF or should I leave it as passive. I just don't what it to be x-overed in the receiver and the sub.

Thanks
Joe
Set the sub xover as high as it will go. Some have an "LFE Mode". Then set the desired sub xover in the Yamaha. Let the Yamaha do the filtering.
PlatinumSV's Avatar PlatinumSV 08:54 AM 08-29-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Set the sub xover as high as it will go. Some have an "LFE Mode". Then set the desired sub xover in the Yamaha. Let the Yamaha do the filtering.

There is no sub crossover or LPF. There's only crossover points for you Speakers marked as small. That's where they roll off to the sub. My question is the .1 LFE effects. Do I need to use the subs x-over for that
Bond 007's Avatar Bond 007 09:09 AM 08-29-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlatinumSV View Post

There is no sub crossover or LPF. There's only crossover points for you Speakers marked as small. That's where they roll off to the sub. My question is the .1 LFE effects. Do I need to use the subs x-over for that
If theres no sub xover in the Yamaha then that would be the first Ive heard of it. Every Yamaha receiver I have owned had a sub xover in the Setup menu. But if thats the case then you have no choice but to use the sub filter.
Ross Ridge's Avatar Ross Ridge 09:11 AM 08-29-2013
If your subwoofer has a dial for adjusting it's low-pass filter then set it as high as it will go. As I mentioned earlier, your receiver has it's own low-pass filter for the subwoofer output that you cannot adjust. (Plus additoinal DSP filters you also can't adjust, like the one the in DTS-HD decoder that kriktsemaj99 mentioned)

If you're still worried about the unlikely event of a badly recorded soundtrack having higher 120 Hz audio on their LFE tracks then don't use any low-pass filter bypass your subwoofer might have. Your subwoofer should be designed to handle such a bad recording without damage at its max low-pass filter setting.
guest68's Avatar guest68 12:13 PM 08-30-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Sounds like you need to play with your subwoofer xover.

I have the Polk 505 and it doesn't use it's crossover when using the LFE., which I am.

As much as I want to like this unit, YPAO and I have different opinions on what the sound should be. I ran the multi-position set-up, and it hasn't helped. The sound is not good to me. Middle to low bass seems to be nonexistent. Pure direct sounds pretty good, but not enough at the bottom for me. Reconnecting the 1909 with audysseey has reaffirmed what I needed to hear, both on the Eagle's vid and movies. It may help the Denon allows you to set the crossover point for speaker position. I can set the fronts at 60, center at 100, etc. Maybe that is helping the bottom end.

In spite of the great deal I've gotten, I'm gonna return it. I can't justify an 'improvement' that doesn't sound like one.....to me. YMMV.
Bond 007's Avatar Bond 007 03:22 PM 08-30-2013
You can eq all the speakers individually with the Parametric EQ.
dwhite832003's Avatar dwhite832003 08:13 AM 09-01-2013
I found a open box 3020 for $1100.... think I should jump on it?
PlatinumSV's Avatar PlatinumSV 08:33 AM 09-01-2013
Definitely. That's a great price And they still sell for the same price as the new model
dwhite832003's Avatar dwhite832003 08:52 AM 09-01-2013
What are the differences between the 20 & the 30? Upgraded dac's?
Craig Mecak's Avatar Craig Mecak 04:18 AM 09-02-2013
Hi,

I've just purchased a RX-V3073 (Very similar to the A3020, 9 x 150W. 11.2 capable via pre-out etc) to replace my aging RX-V2700B, but I now notice a lip sync problem.

The audio through the 2700 was perfect, all sources, all resolutions (I had it simply on HDMI pass-through, no processing, no additional audio delay).

But now, the 3073 has a noticeable audio delay/lag by around 1 or 2 frames (I estimate around 60 milliseconds), which is intolerable. I've made sure the delay is set to '0'. I've tried direct video processing, as well as upconversion of all sources to 1080p, but still the persistent audio delay issue.

I even noticed it on audio-only sources, like optical/Toslink from my Apple Airport Express. I was playing the same content through another Airport in another room simultaneously, and the newer Yamaha RX-V3073 had a noticeable delay compared to the audio coming from the other room (Optical from Airport into an even older Yamaha DSP-A1).

Has anyone else had lip sync issues? Why is there so much delay in the audio now on these newer models? Is it all the additional processing on these more complex receivers?

Craig.
Bond 007's Avatar Bond 007 05:07 AM 09-02-2013
Instead of making sure the delay is set a 0, why dont you increase it to 60 ms? Or will that make it worse? If you have to decrease it rather than increase it you may be out of luck. I dont have that model. Have you looked at the Owners Manual?
Craig Mecak's Avatar Craig Mecak 06:53 AM 09-02-2013
Thanks Bond 007, but adding more delay will make it worse.

What these receivers need added is a new feature called 'video delay' to pad out the vision delay to match the audio.

Cheers,

Craig.
Bond 007's Avatar Bond 007 06:59 AM 09-02-2013
Some sources, particularly modern bluray players, also have audio sync settings. Something to look into.
kriktsemaj99's Avatar kriktsemaj99 07:50 AM 09-02-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Mecak View Post

Why is there so much delay in the audio now on these newer models? Is it all the additional processing on these more complex receivers?

The audio delay through the receiver (except in Pure Drect mode) is significant (maybe as much as 40ms) but it's not usually less than the video delay in the display, and it shouldn't be much more than your old 2700.

When you set the delay to 0ms, did you also make sure to select Manual lipsync (the default is Auto, which rarely works properly)?
Bond 007's Avatar Bond 007 10:03 AM 09-02-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

The audio delay through the receiver (except in Pure Drect mode) is significant (maybe as much as 40ms) but it's not usually less than the video delay in the display, and it shouldn't be much more than your old 2700.

When you set the delay to 0ms, did you also make sure to select Manual lipsync (the default is Auto, which rarely works properly)?
Good point. Theres also an option to Enable or Disable the delay for each input. Check that.
Craig Mecak's Avatar Craig Mecak 04:50 AM 09-03-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Good point. Theres also an option to Enable or Disable the delay for each input. Check that.

Yes, checked all that. All set to '0'. Even tried disabling lip sync for all affected inputs. Same result.

My TV is an older Sony 46" LCD from 2007. Maybe when/if I upgrade to something newer, the 'auto' lipsync will function properly, with the new display correctly reporting back to the Yamaha any inherent delay that the display incurs.

Craig.
Ross Ridge's Avatar Ross Ridge 10:12 AM 09-03-2013
You can't have a smaller audio delay than 0, so auto lipsync wouldn't help. A new TV might help because it's more likely to have a longer video delay than the receiver's audio delay.

In the meantime you might try enabling video processing options on your TV and see if you can't increase the video delay of the TV you have now. In particular make sure you're not using any sort of game mode.
red_5ive's Avatar red_5ive 11:41 AM 09-04-2013
I just picked up an RX-A3020 and ran YPAO. For some reason during the calibration process, no sound plays through the Front Presence speakers so they are not being EQ'd. However under normal operation they work fine. I'm running external amplification (2 channel + 5 channel amp) so I'm not sure if that might have anything to do with it. I tried setting different amp configurations, but I would have thought that leaving it on "Basic" should work just fine. Any tips on what might be the issue?
Bond 007's Avatar Bond 007 12:15 PM 09-04-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by red_5ive View Post

I just picked up an RX-A3020 and ran YPAO. For some reason during the calibration process, no sound plays through the Front Presence speakers so they are not being EQ'd. However under normal operation they work fine. I'm running external amplification (2 channel + 5 channel amp) so I'm not sure if that might have anything to do with it. I tried setting different amp configurations, but I would have thought that leaving it on "Basic" should work just fine. Any tips on what might be the issue?
What speakers are you driving with the external amp? Do the fp speakers work when you use the "test tone"?
red_5ive's Avatar red_5ive 12:22 PM 09-04-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

What speakers are you driving with the external amp? Do the fp speakers work when you use the "test tone"?

Speakers are Rocket RS250 MKII. The same amp drives the center and surrounds, those work fine during YPAO. Yes, they work just fine with test tone enabled. I've gone through and removed/re-added them in the manual Speaker Configuration, retested and they're just fine. But when YPAO displays them on the screen for the initial detection, no sound comes through. They play fine in movies, too.
red_5ive's Avatar red_5ive 02:10 PM 09-04-2013
Well, I got it working. I went through the manual speaker config and removed each speaker and re-added (set to "None", then set to "Use"), and that seemed took care of it as it worked right after that. Weird.

It's interesting, though, YPAO yields different results on the 3020 vs. my 3010 and 1010. The higher frequencies are EQ'd "sharp". There's +4db to +6db difference in the higher frequencies on the 3020.
howlinrock's Avatar howlinrock 11:19 AM 09-08-2013
I’m having sync issues with three new components handshaking together (Yamaha RX-A3020, Sharp LC-70LE847U & Oppo BDP-103) and don’t know which one or the combination that is causing my problem with sync. The audio is not matching what’s coming out of people’s mouth and much more noticeable with concerts. I’m posting this request for help in 3 threads for each component. Looking for user’s suggestions in their experiences finding a solution with various adjustments. My thanks in advance.
Bond 007's Avatar Bond 007 01:01 PM 09-08-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by howlinrock View Post

I’m having sync issues with three new components handshaking together (Yamaha RX-A3020, Sharp LC-70LE847U & Oppo BDP-103) and don’t know which one or the combination that is causing my problem with sync. The audio is not matching what’s coming out of people’s mouth and much more noticeable with concerts. I’m posting this request for help in 3 threads for each component. Looking for user’s suggestions in their experiences finding a solution with various adjustments. My thanks in advance.
Have you tried syncing them with the AVR settings?
Craig Mecak's Avatar Craig Mecak 11:09 PM 09-08-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by howlinrock View Post

I’m having sync issues with three new components handshaking together (Yamaha RX-A3020, Sharp LC-70LE847U & Oppo BDP-103) and don’t know which one or the combination that is causing my problem with sync. The audio is not matching what’s coming out of people’s mouth and much more noticeable with concerts. I’m posting this request for help in 3 threads for each component. Looking for user’s suggestions in their experiences finding a solution with various adjustments. My thanks in advance.

I have just bought the RX-V3073, very similar to the RX-V3020, and am having lip sync issues too.

My old RX-V2700 had NO lip sync issues, but the new 3073 has around 40-80ms audio delay, even though the delay settings are set to '0'. I need LESS audio delay, not more. These new models must have a lot more audio processing to delay the audio around 2 frames more than needed. I wish they had the same 2 frame VIDEO delay that you could dial in to compensate for the audio error.

It happens to Optical input too. I have Apple AirPort Expresses all around my house, but now when I play it through the 3073, there is a noticeable ECHO compared to the other speakers around the house which are connected to amplifiers which don't have this 80ms inherent audio delay. I also tried putting the video processing to ON, to try to pad out the video to match the audio, but no luck.

Craig.
GlennUK's Avatar GlennUK 06:01 AM 09-09-2013
Just a quickie questions, i note earlier comments re allowing the 3020 to upscale video, i am having dropout of sound momentarily and pixelation when whatching HD channels. Im a long way from being a video expert so forgive me if this is a dim question.

If the broadcast is in HD then the outputs will similarly be in HD and therefore no upscaling is required?

However, if i am getting drop outs as described above if i force the STB to output say at 720 then i can upscale it back to 1080p and there should be no loss of quality, or am i missing the point?
HiEndIsBetter's Avatar HiEndIsBetter 07:11 AM 09-09-2013
Does anyone have suggestions on how to use this receiver to bi-amp the center channel without using an external amplifier? I'd also want the result to have unified volume control. Let me know if I'm missing something, but I thought the amplifiers could be assigned to "anything you wanted" but now that I've got the unit I find you can only select from about 12 different home theater configurations - that don't change based on the speakers you've set up in the configuration. My end goal is a 5.1 channel setup with left, center and right bi-amplified. Thanks.
kriktsemaj99's Avatar kriktsemaj99 07:35 AM 09-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Craig Mecak View Post

My old RX-V2700 had NO lip sync issues, but the new 3073 has around 40-80ms audio delay, even though the delay settings are set to '0'. I need LESS audio delay, not more. These new models must have a lot more audio processing to delay the audio around 2 frames more than needed. I wish they had the same 2 frame VIDEO delay that you could dial in to compensate for the audio error.

I'd certainly believe 40ms, because I measured that years ago on my RX-V1800. But if the delay is closer to 80ms then something has changed in the newer models (could be the new YPAO with RSC). Some real measurements of the exact delay would be interesting, but I agree that Yamaha should put some effort into reducing the audio delay through the DSPs.

For the video delay, most displays have enough to compensate for the audio delay through the receiver. But don't rely on auto lipsync, change it to manual and see if you can find a delay setting that works.

For the echo problem with other speakers, about the only thing you can do is try Pure Direct mode. That should reduce the audio delay significantly (down to almost zero for input formats that can be sent directly to the DACs without DSP decoding, or analog inputs that bypass even the DACs).


dsinger's Avatar dsinger 02:30 PM 09-09-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by GlennUK View Post

Just a quickie questions, i note earlier comments re allowing the 3020 to upscale video, i am having dropout of sound momentarily and pixelation when whatching HD channels. Im a long way from being a video expert so forgive me if this is a dim question.

If the broadcast is in HD then the outputs will similarly be in HD and therefore no upscaling is required?

However, if i am getting drop outs as described above if i force the STB to output say at 720 then i can upscale it back to 1080p and there should be no loss of quality, or am i missing the point?

Audio dropouts and pixelation usually come from the source for your STB or the STB itself. Could also be your cables into the 3020 and out to the TV. Check that cables are fitting properly. The 3020 will very likely provide the best deinterlacing and scaling for your setup. If the STB allows it, set it to output 480i, 720p and 1080i so that the HQV in the 3020 can do all the work. Note that changing channels where resolution also changes will take a little longer due to the damned HDMI handshakes. If the dropout etc. problems continue call your cable/sat company.
Tags: Yamaha , Yamaha Rx A1020 7 2 Channel Network Aventage Av Receiver , Receivers Amplifiers , Yamaha Rx A2020 9 2 Channel Network Aventage Av Receiver
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