The "Official" Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A1020, RX-A2020 and RX-A3020 Thread - Page 40 - AVS Forum

AVS Forum > Audio > Receivers, Amps, and Processors > The "Official" Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A1020, RX-A2020 and RX-A3020 Thread

Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Ross Ridge's Avatar Ross Ridge
07:20 AM Liked: 81
post #1171 of 1862
09-23-2013 | Posts: 1,550
Joined: Apr 2011
Nothing about how carageuw speakers were setup was different from a standard 5.1 setup. That was his problem, he had mistakenly changed the Power Amp Assign setting from the default "Basic", to one of the "+FRONT" settings (eg. "5ch +FRONT+2ZONE") that disables the front speaker terminals. If he had left this setting at the default he wouldn't had a problem, his front speakers would've worked without issue and he wouldn't have had to pay Best Buy to come in and change this setting back to the default value.

The Power Amp Assign setting determines how the 9 amplifiers in the RX-A2020 should be routed to the 11 sets of speakers terminal at the back of the receiver. It doesn't determine which speakers you're using, so in most cases where you're not using advanced features like external power amplifiers or bi-amping your fronts, the "Basic" setting is what you want. It works with 2.0 speaker configuration, 5.1 speaker configurations, 7.1 plus presence speaker configurations, and everything in between. After you set the Power Amp Assign setting correctly you can then run YPAO and it will figure out automatically which speakers you're using.
kriktsemaj99's Avatar kriktsemaj99
08:03 AM Liked: 176
post #1172 of 1862
09-23-2013 | Posts: 6,097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sveinse View Post

I think that is a misunderstanding. This is what 1020 offers:
  • There is no PEQ on the SW channel
  • There is no measurable differences on the SW output when setting EQ settings (YPAO:Flat, manual and through).
  • The lowest adjustable frequency on the main channels are 31.3Hz but it only affects the main channels, NOT the sub.
...

So either Yamaha is misinforming, or there are differences in the firmwares across the world.

Thanks for posting the measurements to confirm that the sub is not EQed on the 1020. I've also looked at the file generated when all the settings are saved with receiver manager, and the YPAO settings do not include any sub EQ for the 10x0 models. Yamaha support (or technical support at any company) is not always correct.

Sub EQ could have been left out for marketing reasons, but more likely they needed to reduce the processing load on the DSP, because the 10x0 models only have one DSP and the higher models have two.
Bond 007's Avatar Bond 007
09:04 AM Liked: 888
post #1173 of 1862
09-23-2013 | Posts: 12,497
Joined: Jun 2012
Thanks for clearing that up krik. I would lean towards believing you over Yamaha support in most cases. smile.gif And with sveinse measurements it seems to be definitive.
Redoryx's Avatar Redoryx
09:20 AM Liked: 17
post #1174 of 1862
09-23-2013 | Posts: 354
Joined: Oct 2006
Has anyone done a direct comparison between the Burr Browns vs the ESS DAC's?
Which are better?
I am on the fence as to purchase the 2020 or the 2030.
Thanks in Advance
carageuw's Avatar carageuw
09:35 AM Liked: 12
post #1175 of 1862
09-23-2013 | Posts: 426
Joined: Aug 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Ridge View Post

The Power Amp Assign setting determines how the 9 amplifiers in the RX-A2020 should be routed to the 11 sets of speakers terminal at the back of the receiver. It doesn't determine which speakers you're using, so in most cases where you're not using advanced features like external power amplifiers or bi-amping your fronts, the "Basic" setting is what you want. It works with 2.0 speaker configuration, 5.1 speaker configurations, 7.1 plus presence speaker configurations, and everything in between. After you set the Power Amp Assign setting correctly you can then run YPAO and it will figure out automatically which speakers you're using.

Well except for whatever reason YPAO did not work on the first run when it was supposedly by default set to BASIC. rolleyes.gif
montys1's Avatar montys1
09:38 AM Liked: 10
post #1176 of 1862
09-23-2013 | Posts: 9
Joined: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Ridge View Post

Nothing about how carageuw speakers were setup was different from a standard 5.1 setup. That was his problem, he had mistakenly changed the Power Amp Assign setting from the default "Basic", to one of the "+FRONT" settings (eg. "5ch +FRONT+2ZONE") that disables the front speaker terminals. If he had left this setting at the default he wouldn't had a problem, his front speakers would've worked without issue and he wouldn't have had to pay Best Buy to come in and change this setting back to the default value.

The Power Amp Assign setting determines how the 9 amplifiers in the RX-A2020 should be routed to the 11 sets of speakers terminal at the back of the receiver. It doesn't determine which speakers you're using, so in most cases where you're not using advanced features like external power amplifiers or bi-amping your fronts, the "Basic" setting is what you want. It works with 2.0 speaker configuration, 5.1 speaker configurations, 7.1 plus presence speaker configurations, and everything in between. After you set the Power Amp Assign setting correctly you can then run YPAO and it will figure out automatically which speakers you're using.

Thanks for the reply most informative.
montys1's Avatar montys1
12:00 PM Liked: 10
post #1177 of 1862
09-23-2013 | Posts: 9
Joined: Jul 2010
Have just setup my new a2020 with my speakers Monitor RX6 fronts - RX1 as surrounds l/r and RXW12 Sub in a basic 5.1 system. Run YPAO and all seems fine distance wise. Changed all to small and 80hz. On the RXW12 Sub I had the volume just under half (11 o'clock) - the frequency to max 120 - phase to 0 - the LPF to Out/LFE. YPAO had the sub level at +1.5db. Did I have right LPF setting?
If I wanted to increase the sub volume a couple of notches globally without screwing the YPAO where is the best place to do that?

Thanks one and all.
kriktsemaj99's Avatar kriktsemaj99
01:50 PM Liked: 176
post #1178 of 1862
09-23-2013 | Posts: 6,097
Joined: Jan 2005
Since the sub level is not close to the min or max (-10dB or +10dB) then you have the sub volume control about right. If you want to adjust the sub level do it in the receiver, then it's easy to know exactly how much you are changing it and revert to the original setting if needed.
montys1's Avatar montys1
02:15 PM Liked: 10
post #1179 of 1862
09-23-2013 | Posts: 9
Joined: Jul 2010
Ok thanks
vadergr's Avatar vadergr
01:45 PM Liked: 10
post #1180 of 1862
09-26-2013 | Posts: 111
Joined: Dec 2007
One noob question.
If the 2020 is a 9ch amp, how it handles 5.1/7.1 movies in a 9.1 speaker setup with no dts neo x or dolby z?
Am i missing something?
kriktsemaj99's Avatar kriktsemaj99
03:17 PM Liked: 176
post #1181 of 1862
09-26-2013 | Posts: 6,097
Joined: Jan 2005
Yamaha use their own proprietary algorithms for the extra speakers (which they call "presence" speakers). I've never tried them myself, but frankly I wish Yamaha would start supporting the new Dolby and DTS technologies as well.
vadergr's Avatar vadergr
03:14 AM Liked: 10
post #1182 of 1862
09-27-2013 | Posts: 111
Joined: Dec 2007
The yamaha has at least different dsp for 9.1 music and 9.1 movies ?

Also,the 2020's remote has backlight or not?
And for last, i know that the xx20 series does not playback multich. Flac. If i try to playback one, will it play in stereo mode or it will not at all?

Thanks in advance for responding to my questions...
kriktsemaj99's Avatar kriktsemaj99
06:44 AM Liked: 176
post #1183 of 1862
09-27-2013 | Posts: 6,097
Joined: Jan 2005
There's a whole lot of DSP modes to choose from. You would have to hear them to know if you like them.

The 3020 remote is backlit, the 2020 remote is not.

Don't know about multi-channel FLAC playing as stereo.
vadergr's Avatar vadergr
07:16 AM Liked: 10
post #1184 of 1862
09-27-2013 | Posts: 111
Joined: Dec 2007
Just ordered Yamaha A2020.
Hope it will be great !
ShakeMan's Avatar ShakeMan
12:13 PM Liked: 10
post #1185 of 1862
09-27-2013 | Posts: 68
Joined: Jul 2002
I've searched (and probably missed it somewhere), but is there a way to set treble and bass tone per input vs. all inputs? I like heavier bass in the music coming from my Sonos music player in relation to television and movie viewing. Under Option>Tone Control on the remote, it lists Input: All, so I'm hoping there is a way to do it per input.
sveinse's Avatar sveinse
03:51 PM Liked: 12
post #1186 of 1862
09-27-2013 | Posts: 33
Joined: Sep 2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShakeMan View Post

I've searched (and probably missed it somewhere), but is there a way to set treble and bass tone per input vs. all inputs? I like heavier bass in the music coming from my Sonos music player in relation to television and movie viewing. Under Option>Tone Control on the remote, it lists Input: All, so I'm hoping there is a way to do it per input.

AFAIK you cannot do it per input. At least I havent found it on the 1020.

However, there is tone control to each of the scenes. So if you assign an input to a scene, you can also set the tone control associated with that scene.

I do something similar to that: I assign patterns to a various scenes. The patterns in Yamaha contains the speaker setups with number of speakers, x-over, and most importantly the PEQ/YPAO filters. So my first scene holds the soundstage for movies where I use pattern1. The second scene is for music, where I use pattern 2, for a more music oriented, rounded, soundstage.
mikemack's Avatar mikemack
06:24 PM Liked: 10
post #1187 of 1862
10-04-2013 | Posts: 44
Joined: Jun 2006
I meant to post this question in this thread and not in the main one. Sorry for the double post.

I just got my hands on a slightly used - like brand new RX-A1020. I love all the features and simplified connectivity with this new receiver. My previous Yamaha RX-V1000 was about 13 years old and due for an upgrade. I have owned 2 Yamaha receivers over the past 20 years and absolutely love their sound and reliability.

Now with this new Aventage receiver I feel the sound is too "bright". Anyone know how to tone this down? I have tried tweaking the tone controls (decrease treble/increase bass) but that hasn't solved it for me. I ran the YPAO multi point setup but that wasn't to my liking either and there were some quirks to it (front speakers set to large when they are small, etc...)

I am using the same speakers, cables, source devices, etc... that I had running through my RX-V1000. Nothing else has changed other than the receiver and the fact that all my sources are HDMI connected now. In the past the audio input to the RX-V1000 was either coax, optical or analog.

Last night I popped in a couple of CD's using my Blu-Ray player to play them and they sounded to "bright" to me. I tried using the direct option with 2 channel stereo and that didn't solve it either.

Hopefully someone else has experienced this and has some recommendations.
HiEndIsBetter's Avatar HiEndIsBetter
08:12 AM Liked: 10
post #1188 of 1862
10-05-2013 | Posts: 3
Joined: Sep 2013
Two things before you judge the unit:
Break it in. At least 20 hours of continuous power up at a reasonable volume level, if not more unless you think "slightly used" has done this already.
Change the power cord. Literally anything is probably better than what came with it - even something from an old computer. I haven't tried these yet, but am going to experiment with a Pangea AC-9. I ended up with a wireworld power cable but hope to find something acceptable that is less expensive.

Then:
Have you tried listening with and without pure direct mode enabled?
Also, make sure you read the manual or play around enough with settings to make sure the receiver is configured to give you what you want, especially with respect to the subwoofer output.
You might want to consider comparing speaker wires. Some of that plain old traditional thick monster-cable-like wire might attenuate the highs just a bit.
My experience with the RX-A3020 is that 2 channel music is somewhat disappointing. I kept the unit only because of the multichannel performance and features. I think that the receiver lacks some impact even in multichannel mode, but the sound is clean and the wife likes this environment for "just having something on."

I have three data points (ok, just opinions really) you might find interesting:
1. I like the overall sound of my friend's V473 with his monitor audio RX-2's significantly better than my 3020 and Canton ref 9.2's.
2. I like the overall sound of my 3020 with PSB GB1's connected vs. the ref 9.2's.
3. I preferred the sound of bi-amping (NOT just bi-wiring) the 9.2's.

Let us know what you try and what you think.
Bond 007's Avatar Bond 007
08:43 AM Liked: 888
post #1189 of 1862
10-05-2013 | Posts: 12,497
Joined: Jun 2012
Did you disable all of the crossovers in your speakers before biamping them?
What kind of amps are you using?
What all different kinds of speaker wire have you tried?
kriktsemaj99's Avatar kriktsemaj99
03:36 PM Liked: 176
post #1190 of 1862
10-05-2013 | Posts: 6,097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikemack View Post

...
Now with this new Aventage receiver I feel the sound is too "bright". Anyone know how to tone this down? I have tried tweaking the tone controls (decrease treble/increase bass) but that hasn't solved it for me. I ran the YPAO multi point setup but that wasn't to my liking either and there were some quirks to it (front speakers set to large when they are small, etc...)

I am using the same speakers, cables, source devices, etc... that I had running through my RX-V1000. Nothing else has changed other than the receiver and the fact that all my sources are HDMI connected now. In the past the audio input to the RX-V1000 was either coax, optical or analog.

You said all speakers were set as small, so the sub will be used for two channel sources (CDs). This is good, but you'll have to turn up your sub's own volume control (physical knob on the back) because the subwoofer output of the new models (1 volt) is much lower than on old models such as the V1000 (4 volts). Try the manual test tones and make sure the sub is playing at the same level as the other speakers (using an SPL meter if you have one).
dsinger's Avatar dsinger
06:55 AM Liked: 114
post #1191 of 1862
10-06-2013 | Posts: 1,804
Joined: Apr 2003
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

You said all speakers were set as small, so the sub will be used for two channel sources (CDs). This is good, but you'll have to turn up your sub's own volume control (physical knob on the back) because the subwoofer output of the new models (1 volt) is much lower than on old models such as the V1000 (4 volts). Try the manual test tones and make sure the sub is playing at the same level as the other speakers (using an SPL meter if you have one).

Would running YPAO correct the volume issue on the sub (s)? Reason for asking is that my 3020 set volume for all speakers in a 9.2 setup. i then added 5-6 db to the subs. Bass sounds good and is consistent in volume with rest of speakers using reference movie material. However, with volume jacked up to produce 75-77 db for the other speakers via test tones as measured by a sound meter, the subs measure around 55db. Sub's volume controls are set at ~ 60% and didn't change the settings on the subs themselves after running YPAO. Given the 60% setting on the subs and around 0 db and +4 db (after adjustment) in the 3020, I don't think there's room to add another 20 db so all this leaves me a bit confused. Thanks
kriktsemaj99's Avatar kriktsemaj99
07:55 AM Liked: 176
post #1192 of 1862
10-06-2013 | Posts: 6,097
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If the subs sound like they are playing at the proper level they should not measure 20dB low with the test tones, so I don't know what's happening there.

The issue mikemack was having is different. If he simply switched out a V1000 for an A1020, I'm sure the sub's volume control would need to be increased considerably due to the lower sub pre-out voltage of the new models (there's not enough range on the receiver level trims to make up for that). I remember when I switched an old HTR-5760 (also with 4 volt sub preout) for a V1800 (2 volts) I had to crank the sub volume, and it will be even more pronounced with the latest models (1 volt).
dsinger's Avatar dsinger
02:57 PM Liked: 114
post #1193 of 1862
10-06-2013 | Posts: 1,804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

If the subs sound like they are playing at the proper level they should not measure 20dB low with the test tones, so I don't know what's happening there.

The issue mikemack was having is different. If he simply switched out a V1000 for an A1020, I'm sure the sub's volume control would need to be increased considerably due to the lower sub pre-out voltage of the new models (there's not enough range on the receiver level trims to make up for that). I remember when I switched an old HTR-5760 (also with 4 volt sub preout) for a V1800 (2 volts) I had to crank the sub volume, and it will be even more pronounced with the latest models (1 volt).

Thanks for the response. Did it over using the C weighting rather than A and all the DB levels are within +/- 1 db. Occasionally it helps to read the instruction manual first smile.gif
mikemack's Avatar mikemack
01:41 PM Liked: 10
post #1194 of 1862
10-07-2013 | Posts: 44
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Thanks guys for the responses. I was unaware that the new receivers had such a drop in voltage for the sub output. That would explain why I was feeling the sub was not as responsive as it was with my RX-V1000.

I will break out my trusty Radio Shack SPL meter and give it a go like the old days. I thought that was a thing of the past with the YPAO/Audyssey automated calibration setups.

I have swapped out the power cord for a heavier gauge tributaries cord with a shorter length to accommodate my rack. All speaker runs are in wall with 12ga audioquest cabling.

I guess I will have to spend some time tweaking to get it just right. I had the V1000 for so long I had forgotten about all the tweaking I did over the years I have had it to get it to my liking.

I appreciate all the feedback and input.
Kieran's Avatar Kieran
03:47 PM Liked: 11
post #1195 of 1862
10-08-2013 | Posts: 323
Joined: Sep 2001
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

You said all speakers were set as small, so the sub will be used for two channel sources (CDs). This is good, but you'll have to turn up your sub's own volume control (physical knob on the back) because the subwoofer output of the new models (1 volt) is much lower than on old models such as the V1000 (4 volts). Try the manual test tones and make sure the sub is playing at the same level as the other speakers (using an SPL meter if you have one).
Why would it make a difference if you turn up the sub's own volume knob, or leave it be, and let YPAO boost the bass signal going to the sub?

My best practice recommendation to people has always been to bypass your sub's crossover and volume adjustments if possible and let the processor/receiver handle it. If bypass is not possible, set crossover to max, and volume to ~50%, then let the processor do its thing. Unless the sub line voltage is so low, and the sub's own volume is so low, that the Yamaha would have to max out the boost on the sub signal, I don't see adjusting the sub volume when a system like YPAO or Audyssey is in use as making a difference.
kriktsemaj99's Avatar kriktsemaj99
04:04 PM Liked: 176
post #1196 of 1862
10-08-2013 | Posts: 6,097
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kieran View Post

Why would it make a difference if you turn up the sub's own volume knob, or leave it be, and let YPAO boost the bass signal going to the sub?

Because there's a limited range of adjustment in the receiver (plus or minus 10dB in the case of Yamaha), and if the sub's own volume control is too low then YPAO may not be able to reach the volume level it really needs. If you check the receiver sub level trim after running YPAO and it's maxed out at +10, you need to turn up the sub and run YPAO again.

Even if it's not quite maxed out you might want to do that anyway, otherwise you have no margin for adjusting it upwards later if you find you want to.

50% volume on the sub might work, but the point was that anyone coming from an old model with a 4 volt sub pre-out to a new model (1 volt) would need to turn up the sub from wherever they had set it before.
Kieran's Avatar Kieran
05:12 PM Liked: 11
post #1197 of 1862
10-08-2013 | Posts: 323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Because there's a limited range of adjustment in the receiver (plus or minus 10dB in the case of Yamaha), and if the sub's own volume control is too low then YPAO may not be able to reach the volume level it really needs.
So basically what I said above:
Quote:
Unless the sub line voltage is so low, and the sub's own volume is so low, that the Yamaha would have to max out the boost on the sub signal,
biggrin.gif I just didn't realize that the problem was that prevalent. But if there is boost room to spare, then there wouldn't be any benefit of this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

If you check the receiver sub level trim after running YPAO and it's maxed out at +10, you need to turn up the sub and run YPAO again.

Even if it's not quite maxed out you might want to do that anyway, otherwise you have no margin for adjusting it upwards later if you find you want to.
Yeah, this does sound like a good suggestion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post


50% volume on the sub might work, but the point was that anyone coming from an old model with a 4 volt sub pre-out to a new model (1 volt) would need to turn up the sub from wherever they had set it before.
Right. Well, my sub (and most decently high-end subs, don't you agree?) has a bypass input which bypasses all of the subs own adjustments. In this case, I think it's best to let YPAO set everything, and tweak via the receiver. But who knows? I'll have to try it out and see... smile.gif I'll run YPAO with the sub's volume turned to max and see if the level YPAO comes up with is significantly different than what it uses when I use the sub's bypass input.
kriktsemaj99's Avatar kriktsemaj99
06:00 PM Liked: 176
post #1198 of 1862
10-08-2013 | Posts: 6,097
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A crossover bypass is common, but I don't think a volume bypass is. Which sub do you have?
Kieran's Avatar Kieran
08:06 PM Liked: 11
post #1199 of 1862
10-08-2013 | Posts: 323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

A crossover bypass is common, but I don't think a volume bypass is. Which sub do you have?
I currently have two, both fairly old: Energy ES-8 (came with the original Take5 system in ~1998) and an SVS 20-39pci, from about 2002. Both have low-level inputs which bypass both crossover and gain/volume.
I've also reviewed two subs for SECRETS, one of which had a bypass input, the other I don't recall.
montys1's Avatar montys1
01:47 AM Liked: 10
post #1200 of 1862
10-09-2013 | Posts: 9
Joined: Jul 2010

I have just purchased a Maplin N05CC SPL meter and an AIX Disc for calibration.
The SPL specs are:
Product Code: N05CC

About this product:

LCD read out
High and low measurement ranges
Maximum hold
A and C frequency weighting of sound level
Selectable slow and fast response
Auto power off
Low battery indicator
Size: 210(l) x55(w) x 32(h)m

Measurement frequency
range:31.5Hz-8KHz
Measurement level range:30 - 130dB
Low: 30 - 100dB
High: 60 - 130dB
Accuracy:+/- 1.5dB
Microphone:12.7mm (1/2 inch) (Dia) electric condenser microphone
Digital display:4 digit LCD, 0.1dB resolution updated every 0.5 sec.
Time weighting:Fast: 125ms / Slow: 1 sec.
Power:9V

Never used one before. Have downloaded a guide from Blu-ray. Com so will have a play over the weekend. My questions are:

Do I need to reset what YPAO came up with results wise or just play the AIX tones on my Oppo player with the SPL set up and adjust accordingly?

I guess experiment with the AIX tones and the internal AVR tones and see how the sound compares as well.

Any pointers welcome!

Thanks folks.
Tags: Yamaha , Yamaha Rx A1020 7 2 Channel Network Aventage Av Receiver , Receivers Amplifiers , Yamaha Rx A2020 9 2 Channel Network Aventage Av Receiver

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