The "Official" Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A1020, RX-A2020 and RX-A3020 Thread - Page 58 - AVS Forum
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post #1711 of 1761 Old 05-13-2014, 07:05 PM
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1020 + Antimode, or 2020 alone, that is the question.


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post #1712 of 1761 Old 05-13-2014, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

You see all the frequencies once you try to set them. You can also see them in the web control interface. All recent models are the same, except that the 20x0 and 30x0 can EQ the sub.

Because the 20x0 or better has two audio DSPs instead of one. For the same reason, the 20x0 or better has two independent subwoofer outputs (with individual timing and PEQ control), while on the 10x0 or smaller, the two sub outputs are really the same signal.
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

1020 + Antimode, or 2020 alone, that is the question.

IMHO that is pretty easy: 1020 + Antimode. From the receiver point of view, I'd prefer the 2020, especially if you plan to use two subs located in different spots. However the PEQ on the sub channels with it's rather coarse frequency selection, is no way near the capability of an antimode. So to my opinion, an antimode always trumps any receiver on controlling room nodes.
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post #1713 of 1761 Old 05-13-2014, 11:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sveinse View Post

Because the 20x0 or better has two audio DSPs instead of one. For the same reason, the 20x0 or better has two independent subwoofer outputs (with individual timing and PEQ control), while on the 10x0 or smaller, the two sub outputs are really the same signal.
IMHO that is pretty easy: 1020 + Antimode. From the receiver point of view, I'd prefer the 2020, especially if you plan to use two subs located in different spots. However the PEQ on the sub channels with it's rather coarse frequency selection, is no way near the capability of an antimode. So to my opinion, an antimode always trumps any receiver on controlling room nodes.
Well I will have, do have, two subs, but keep them at equidistance from the mlp, and definitely send them a mono signal.

Still, looks like the anti mode has my name on it.


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post #1714 of 1761 Old 05-14-2014, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

Well I will have, do have, two subs, but keep them at equidistance from the mlp, and definitely send them a mono signal.

There's potentially a lot to gain by moving the subs around until they produce the flattest in-room response.
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post #1715 of 1761 Old 05-14-2014, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

There's potentially a lot to gain by moving the subs around until they produce the flattest in-room response.

Yep, good reminder. I need to do more experimenting with position for them. Chose the 1/4 and 3/4 front wall locations, which are a reasonable default (though not as good as opposing mid wall placement, but that's hard in my room). But experimentation and measurement before doing any equalization is important.


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post #1716 of 1761 Old 05-14-2014, 08:15 AM
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And that is my point. When you start to move your subs around, it soon becomes an advantage to have individual timing and EQ control for the subs. Hence, a 2020 or better unless the sub offers a delay function (which you need to remember to set the distance for the sub in the receiver to a distance which is longer than the farthest speaker). And having one anti mode per sub placement is absolutely great.
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post #1717 of 1761 Old 05-14-2014, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by sveinse View Post

And that is my point. When you start to move your subs around, it soon becomes an advantage to have individual timing and EQ control for the subs. Hence, a 2020 or better unless the sub offers a delay function (which you need to remember to set the distance for the sub in the receiver to a distance which is longer than the farthest speaker). And having one anti mode per sub placement is absolutely great.

Two ani-modes.... maybe not. Maybe I should get the minidsp, instead. Can EQ two different "channels".

The subs do have just about every adjustment one could want (Rythmik F15HP) such as distance(phase), a single PEQ, etc etc.


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post #1718 of 1761 Old 05-15-2014, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

Two ani-modes.... maybe not. Maybe I should get the minidsp, instead. Can EQ two different "channels".

The subs do have just about every adjustment one could want (Rythmik F15HP) such as distance(phase), a single PEQ, etc etc.

The reason you want two, is because the room response might be very different from sub1 to sub2 when they are located in different locations and thus you'd need different kind of compensation. If you co-locate the subs, e.g. by stacking them, they can be considered as one and can be handled by a single anti mode.

To my opinion two anti modes are of more value than one minidsp. To my experience the anti mode is far better to control those pesky room nodes than what you are capable with a handful of PEQs. The anti mode (depending on which product) has something like 24-36 filters which is far more than what you get with minidsp. But granted, you don't have the same level of control which you do with a custom PEQ filter.
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post #1719 of 1761 Old 05-15-2014, 09:04 AM
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Does anyone here know about how to control/set parameters over the network? Specifically, the parameters on the "Setup" web-page. I just tried to reverse engieer the XML control interface which this page is using, but I'm getting 400 Bad request when I try to POST a command from my computer. It seems Yamaha has implemented access control against posting from other than themselves.

Does anyone here know how the Android/iOS Yamaha remote control app controls? I'd guess a form of XML over HTTP.
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post #1720 of 1761 Old 05-15-2014, 09:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sveinse View Post

Does anyone here know about how to control/set parameters over the network? Specifically, the parameters on the "Setup" web-page. I just tried to reverse engieer the XML control interface which this page is using, but I'm getting 400 Bad request when I try to POST a command from my computer. It seems Yamaha has implemented access control against posting from other than themselves.

Does anyone here know how the Android/iOS Yamaha remote control app controls? I'd guess a form of XML over HTTP.

The commands (YNC protocol) are all documented and there's no kind of access control. I've written code to change PEQ parameters on my RX-V675. I'll send you more details when I get home tonight.

The Yamaha app uses the same YNC protocol over HTTP. One thing that might be causing you problems is that the XML has to be sent exactly as documented. For example, if you change one letter from upper to lower case it won't work.
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post #1721 of 1761 Old 05-15-2014, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

The commands (YNC protocol) are all documented and there's no kind of access control. I've written code to change PEQ parameters on my RX-V675. I'll send you more details when I get home tonight.

The Yamaha app uses the same YNC protocol over HTTP. One thing that might be causing you problems is that the XML has to be sent exactly as documented. For example, if you change one letter from upper to lower case it won't work.

Thanks. I know you mentioned this before.

What I did was to download the web-page ("/Setup/index.html") alongside its js files to my machine. The js generates control messages using POST containing XML against URL "/YamahaControl/ctrl". If I take these web-pages and try to run the locally on my machine (which generates the request exactly the way it should), the receiver responds with 400 Bad request and Chrome js debug sais because "Access-Control-Allow-Origin" is missing from the requested resource. It might just be a missing AJX attribute for all I know -- my js knowledge isn't that up to date.

The same thing happens if I try to post
Code:
<?xml.version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><YAMAHA_AV.cmd="GET"><System><Config>GetParam</Config></System></YAMAHA_AV>
(which I believe to be a valid request) to http://avr/YamahaRemoteControl/ctrl. Then I also get 400.
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post #1722 of 1761 Old 05-15-2014, 10:31 AM
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Have you looked into using CURL? I've used it on things like WiFi thermostats and it MIGHT work out in this case. Haven't played with it for awhile!!! Just a thought, no stones please smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by sveinse View Post

Thanks. I know you mentioned this before.

What I did was to download the web-page ("/Setup/index.html") alongside its js files to my machine. The js generates control messages using POST containing XML against URL "/YamahaControl/ctrl". If I take these web-pages and try to run the locally on my machine (which generates the request exactly the way it should), the receiver responds with 400 Bad request and Chrome js debug sais because "Access-Control-Allow-Origin" is missing from the requested resource. It might just be a missing AJX attribute for all I know -- my js knowledge isn't that up to date.

The same thing happens if I try to post
Code:
<?xml.version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><YAMAHA_AV.cmd="GET"><System><Config>GetParam</Config></System></YAMAHA_AV>
(which I believe to be a valid request) to http://avr/YamahaRemoteControl/ctrl. Then I also get 400.
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post #1723 of 1761 Old 05-15-2014, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sveinse View Post

The same thing happens if I try to post
Code:
<?xml.version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><YAMAHA_AV.cmd="GET"><System><Config>GetParam</Config></System></YAMAHA_AV>
(which I believe to be a valid request) to http://avr/YamahaRemoteControl/ctrl. Then I also get 400.

That XML is correct except for the "." characters where spaces should be. If you're actually sending the "." it will fail.

I don't have access to my PC right now, but I'll send you the Yamaha docs later.
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post #1724 of 1761 Old 05-15-2014, 11:10 AM
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Ah, thanks. That's it. I've got some wrong "." which where inserted into there for some reason. Now it works when I POST against the control interface. Perfect.

It does not work from the modified yamaha web-page/js thing yet, but I'm pretty certain that more about proper js coding and not about YNC. This really does not matter, because I can do this from own script from scratch.
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post #1725 of 1761 Old 05-15-2014, 05:03 PM
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The documents I've been using are attached. They cover both the YNC (HTTP) and YNCA (TCP) protocols. YNCA is easier to use but it can't do everything. The Yamaha app uses YNC.

The text files in YNC/Doc/YNC_Cmd_Samples are useful, as they show the full XML for every command.

Note that you can read parameters when the receiver is in standby (if Network Standby is enabled), but you can't write parameters unless the receiver is turned on first.

YNCA_Spec_USA.zip 2126k .zip file
Attached Files
File Type: zip YNCA_Spec_USA.zip (2.08 MB, 20 views)
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post #1726 of 1761 Old 05-15-2014, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sveinse View Post

The reason you want two, is because the room response might be very different from sub1 to sub2 when they are located in different locations and thus you'd need different kind of compensation. If you co-locate the subs, e.g. by stacking them, they can be considered as one and can be handled by a single anti mode.

To my opinion two anti modes are of more value than one minidsp. To my experience the anti mode is far better to control those pesky room nodes than what you are capable with a handful of PEQs. The anti mode (depending on which product) has something like 24-36 filters which is far more than what you get with minidsp. But granted, you don't have the same level of control which you do with a custom PEQ filter.

Thanks for this. I think we are doing different things with our setups.

I am using two subs, widely spaced, to deliberately excite room modes that interact in a way that creates a uniform (not necessarily flat) bass response across multiple seats. I actually DONT want each sub to be flat.

However, after they are optically placed to interact in a way that gives me consistent (again NOT flat) response across the main seating area, I then want to EQ them to knock down the peaks in their combined response.


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post #1727 of 1761 Old 06-28-2014, 02:16 AM
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Hi,

I have the 1020 version and have connected TVbox to HDMI 1 and Wii to component AV1, when hitting AV1 I get TV and if I unplug the TVbox I get Wii. How do I switch between them without unplug?
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Move the WII to another input

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Originally Posted by snowjim View Post
Hi,

I have the 1020 version and have connected TVbox to HDMI 1 and Wii to component AV1, when hitting AV1 I get TV and if I unplug the TVbox I get Wii. How do I switch between them without unplug?
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post #1729 of 1761 Old 06-28-2014, 07:26 AM
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Move the WII to another input
Im using all inputs(HDMI) from 1 to 5 and there is only 1 to 4 AV? Am I supose to move one of the HDMI devices instead?
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post #1730 of 1761 Old 06-28-2014, 10:57 PM
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You need to move something!!! You've got two things on one input and as you've seen, it doesn't work that way. If you're out of inputs you may have to buy an HDMI switch or a different AVR. OR plug your WII directly into your TV and get the sound via ARC.

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Im using all inputs(HDMI) from 1 to 5 and there is only 1 to 4 AV? Am I supose to move one of the HDMI devices instead?
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post #1731 of 1761 Old 06-29-2014, 12:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rakstr View Post
You need to move something!!! You've got two things on one input and as you've seen, it doesn't work that way. If you're out of inputs you may have to buy an HDMI switch or a different AVR. OR plug your WII directly into your TV and get the sound via ARC.
I undersstand, did never thought that there could be more then one physical input for 1 input channele but now I get it. Thanks.
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post #1732 of 1761 Old 06-29-2014, 06:04 AM
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How are front high speakers used in home audio?

Is it like a theater where they're part of the L/R stereo, or are they only used for high sounds?
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post #1733 of 1761 Old 06-29-2014, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by whitrzac View Post
How are front high speakers used in home audio?

Is it like a theater where they're part of the L/R stereo, or are they only used for high sounds?
Both. Depending on which DSP mode you're using.
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post #1734 of 1761 Old 06-29-2014, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowjim View Post
Hi,

I have the 1020 version and have connected TVbox to HDMI 1 and Wii to component AV1, when hitting AV1 I get TV and if I unplug the TVbox I get Wii. How do I switch between them without unplug?
Quote:
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Move the WII to another input
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowjim View Post
Im using all inputs(HDMI) from 1 to 5 and there is only 1 to 4 AV? Am I supose to move one of the HDMI devices instead?
Hi snowjim, yes or another option is to get a Wii2HDMI.
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post #1735 of 1761 Old 06-29-2014, 08:39 AM
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How does that solve anything? He's out of HDMI inputs. IF he had a spare HDMI he could just move things around and use his composite or component output from the WII to an input on the 1020.
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Hi snowjim, yes or another option is to get a Wii2HDMI.
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post #1736 of 1761 Old 06-29-2014, 08:50 AM
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How does that solve anything? He's out of HDMI inputs. IF he had a spare HDMI he could just move things around and use his composite or component output from the WII to an input on the 1020.
Hi rakstr, I took snowjim post as saying HDMI 1 through 5 is taken up and still has two HDMI remaining, but I could be wrong.
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post #1737 of 1761 Old 06-29-2014, 08:58 AM
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You may be right but I asked him a ways back about available inputs.

If that's the case, he just needs to rearrange things and/or reassign them.

Use the web setup

http://"RECEIVER IP ADDRESS"/setup/

OR the menu.

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Hi rakstr, I took snowjim post as saying HDMI 1 through 5 is taken up and still has two HDMI remaining, but I could be wrong.

Last edited by rakstr; 06-29-2014 at 09:01 AM.
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post #1738 of 1761 Old 06-29-2014, 05:22 PM
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Is there a way to send a test tone to both subwoofers simultaneously in the RX-A3020? I'm trying to fine tune my subs manually, but I don't see an option to send a test tone simultaneously. Sorry if this is a repeat question, but I couldn't find anything on this in this thread. Thanks.
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post #1739 of 1761 Old 06-30-2014, 12:34 PM
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Ok, so relative to my post above, I decided to run a y-adapter from one of the subwoofer channels and connected both subs to it to accomplish getting a test tone directly from the AVR to both subs simultaneously. What I found is a bit puzzling. I set the 3020 subwoofer trim to 0 db and sub PEQ to flat (for now), and then level-matched each subwoofer to 75 db using the volume knobs on each sub. After running some tests, I'm getting about a +6 db gain running both subs vs running just one. War Of The Worlds never sounded better in my room. Cool.

Now, the strange thing is, while making no other changes except for level matching and removing the y-adapter and running the subs directly from the subwoofer channels, I see no such improvement. The most I can get is about a 2.5 db increase in SPL between running one sub vs running both. I've tweaked the phase settings and used the variable phase adjustment as well on the subs, and also tried adjusting the distance (delay) +/- .2 steps at at time while having the phase on 0 deg or "normal" in the AVR as well as both subs, and I still can't get more than 2.5 db using both subwooofer channels on the 3020.

I have checked and rechecked that the 3020 is set to Mono and not Stereo in the Configuration menu. I also decided to try the y-adapter on Sub Channel 2 (originally on Sub Channel 1), and I get the same kick-butt +6 db response as with Sub Channel 1.

For the record, I am running different subs, a PSA XV15 and an MFW-15, but I don't see where that would have any effect on the response using both subwoofer outputs vs the y-adapter.

Anyone have a clue on this? Am I'm doing something wrong here?

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post #1740 of 1761 Old 06-30-2014, 08:45 PM
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Did apple lossless ever get added with a firmware update? I just read when these units first came out they would compress apple lossless.

Also, I've had my 2020 for about a year and I just now realized my firmware (1.40) isn't up to date. I better get the thumb drive out tomorrow and do some work.
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