Pioneer, Denon, or Yamaha 5.1 receiver? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 24 Old 06-15-2012, 11:10 AM - Thread Starter
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I'll be using it (for now) with a 3.1 setup - Polk CS1 center, Polk Monitor 30 fronts, and a TBD subwoofer in a pretty large room. All have the features that I'm looking for (except for analog-HDMI upconversion, but oh well).

All are within about $20 of each other, and specs all seem pretty close. Which one would you choose?

Yamaha RX-V471
Denon AVR-1612
Pioneer VSX-821-K
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post #2 of 24 Old 06-15-2012, 03:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Also I guess I should mention I'll be using it with DirecTV DVR, BD player, Xbox 360, Roku 2XD, and a Wii. Hooking up the Wii isn't a big deal though - I don't need to hear Super Mario Bros that much.
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post #3 of 24 Old 06-15-2012, 03:24 PM
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"Pretty large" room and small bookshelf speakers don't usually go together very well. What are the room dimensions? Of the 3, the Denon will be the only one capable of EQing the sub.

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post #4 of 24 Old 06-15-2012, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

"Pretty large" room and small bookshelf speakers don't usually go together very well. What are the room dimensions? Of the 3, the Denon will be the only one capable of EQing the sub.

The room is 32' x 16', but the listening/viewing area is about 15' x 13'. I don't really care if it sounds great over by the dinner table (the room is half living room, half dining area/kitchen), so I think the bookshelves will be fine. I only mentioned the size because occasionally I'll probably turn it up loud for music, and don't want the receiver to crap out if it can't handle the load.

I'm also looking at refurbed higher-model receivers now, so that's an option too.
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post #5 of 24 Old 06-15-2012, 04:07 PM - Thread Starter
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The AVR-591 refurb is a possibility, as is the 1712 refurb. I really don't need 7.1/7.2 capable at this point though, likely never will.

Is the 591 better/worse than the 1612? It has component inputs, which would be nice for the Wii, but that's the only difference I can really find.
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post #6 of 24 Old 06-15-2012, 04:11 PM
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The 591 and 1612 are fairly comparable, however, the 1612 uses a GUI that can overlay on 2D video. Note that with a Wii2HDMI you wouldn't have to worry about component inputs.

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post #7 of 24 Old 06-15-2012, 04:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The 591 and 1612 are fairly comparable, however, the 1612 uses a GUI that can overlay on 2D video. Note that with a Wii2HDMI you wouldn't have to worry about component inputs.

Interesting, didn't know they made Wii/HDMI converters. I'm not really concerned about the Wii connectivity - like I said, I don't need to hear the Mario sound track that well. That was just the only difference in features/specs that I really understood between the two models.

Sounds like I'd be better going with the new 1612 over the refurb 591 then
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post #8 of 24 Old 06-18-2012, 11:24 AM
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A NEW 1712 is $249 from Electronic Expo, might consider that as well.
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post #9 of 24 Old 06-18-2012, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mj23jay_lin View Post

A NEW 1712 is $249 from Electronic Expo, might consider that as well.

Cheapest I see is an open box, like-new 1712 for $299...?
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post #10 of 24 Old 06-18-2012, 01:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The 591 and 1612 are fairly comparable, however, the 1612 uses a GUI that can overlay on 2D video. Note that with a Wii2HDMI you wouldn't have to worry about component inputs.

Another question - I see the 591 is 7.1 whereas the 1612 is 5.1.

Currently I only have a 3.1 setup (though I may add some cheap Dayton rears in the near future to make it 5.1). Will that be an issue with either of these receivers, or not?
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post #11 of 24 Old 06-18-2012, 02:16 PM
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^^
Any model AVR can run as small as a 2.0 setup, so no, no issue with 3.1. However, note that the 591 and 1612 are both 5.1 AVRs with a set of external 2CH amp pre-outs that can connect either Surround Back or Front Height to make them 7.1.

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post #12 of 24 Old 06-18-2012, 02:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Any model AVR can run as small as a 2.0 setup, so no, no issue with 3.1. However, note that the 591 and 1612 are both 5.1 AVRs with a set of external 2CH amp pre-outs that can connect either Surround Back or Front Height to make them 7.1.

Oh, thanks. Everywhere I've looked shows the 591 as 7.1 and the 1612 as 5.1, but you're right. Wonder why they'd advertise one differently than the other...

So it looks like the differences are:

591 - Component input to HDMI out, not-as-good GUI (looks like you have to attach component cables + hdmi to get overlay?)

1612 - No component inputs/upconversion, 2d GUI overlay



EDIT: As far as the component connectivity, if I hook up my Wii to the tv and enable the HDMI ARC feature, does that mean any audio from the Wii would get passed from the TV to the receiver and out my speakers?
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post #13 of 24 Old 06-18-2012, 03:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Also, is buying manufacturer refurbished from Accessories4less an ok way to go? Comes with 1 year warranty - do there seem to be a lot of issues with refurbed units?
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post #14 of 24 Old 06-18-2012, 07:30 PM
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AC4L has been around over 10 years and often recommended in these threads. The number of refurbs that are defective is likely similar to the rate of new that are defective (ie. < 3% on average); however, AC4L is prompt at resolving any issues and actually Denon has now gotten involved with any defective suspected unit as more often than not it's user error causing the problem.

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post #15 of 24 Old 06-18-2012, 09:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

AC4L has been around over 10 years and often recommended in these threads. The number of refurbs that are defective is likely similar to the rate of new that are defective (ie. < 3% on average); however, AC4L is prompt at resolving any issues and actually Denon has now gotten involved with any defective suspected unit as more often than not it's user error causing the problem.

Great, thanks.

I've decided to go with the 1612 over the 591, but if I move up to the 1712 would I be able to connect my Wii to the receiver and then use the HDMI to the TV? Or would it still require a component cable from the receiver to the TV?
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post #16 of 24 Old 06-19-2012, 12:01 AM
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Nope the 1712 doesn't have analog to HDMI conversion, so you'd still need the component video cable.

I have the Denon AVR-591 and it would also meet your needs since it does have analog to HDMI conversion, but you don't get the new GUI interface. The 591 is only a 5.1 channel receiver.

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post #17 of 24 Old 06-19-2012, 12:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Nope the 1712 doesn't have analog to HDMI conversion, so you'd still need the component video cable.
I have the Denon AVR-591 and it would also meet your needs since it does have analog to HDMI conversion, but you don't get the new GUI interface. The 591 is only a 5.1 channel receiver.

Is the GUI interface only needed during the initial setup? I'm not real clear on what I'd need the GUI for on a regular basis, unless we're talking showing the volume level and stuff too.
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post #18 of 24 Old 06-19-2012, 12:12 AM
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the 2012 Denons are rolling out so you can get as good deal on the 2011's most dealers will be blowing out the old ones to make way for the 2012's so hold off a few weeks and score a Good one like the 1912 or 2312
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post #19 of 24 Old 06-19-2012, 12:36 AM - Thread Starter
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the 2012 Denons are rolling out so you can get as good deal on the 2011's most dealers will be blowing out the old ones to make way for the 2012's so hold off a few weeks and score a Good one like the 1912 or 2312

Even cheaper than they already are? Seems like a lot places are already showing out of stock for the xx12 models.
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post #20 of 24 Old 06-19-2012, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Nope the 1712 doesn't have analog to HDMI conversion, so you'd still need the component video cable.
I have the Denon AVR-591 and it would also meet your needs since it does have analog to HDMI conversion, but you don't get the new GUI interface. The 591 is only a 5.1 channel receiver.

Sorry - another question. Would I be able to hook the Wii directly to the tv, then do a cable from the digital audio out on the TV to the digital audio in on the receiver? I know that only carries 2 channel, but that's fine, as long as it gets the audio out of the speakers instead of the TV.



On an unrelated note, great game by Cain last week. I've been an A's fan all my life, but if they move to San Jose I'll probably make the switch to the Giants.
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post #21 of 24 Old 06-19-2012, 11:18 PM
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u could hook up Wii that way but you be better off sending Audio to Amp!!
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post #22 of 24 Old 06-19-2012, 11:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by flyingvfreak View Post

u could hook up Wii that way but you be better off sending Audio to Amp!!

So Red/White to the receiver, and Yellow directly to the TV? I'd have to find a Wii cable that will do that, since the one we have is all one and then splits into R/W/Y for the last 3 or 4 inches.
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post #23 of 24 Old 06-20-2012, 04:26 AM
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Or you could use a Wii2HDMI.

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post #24 of 24 Old 06-20-2012, 09:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Or you could use a Wii2HDMI.

Then I'd have to step up to the 1712, since the 1612 only has 4 HDMI inputs, and I'll be using them for satellite/Xbox/BD/Roku. Would end up being about $230 more... Would the way I described above work?
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