10K to spend on amplifier + processor - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 42 Old 06-18-2012, 09:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Talos4 View Post

When I think of mainstream audio, "Available at Best Buy" or "HTIB" comes to my mind.

I feel the analogy is overused...no offense. smile.gif

I got some news for you. Best Buy just launched its new store concept this week in Richfield MN. They have a crazy nice set up with all the trimmings. They now carry Macintosh, Arcam, B and W, Marantz, .... 3 more stores in Twin Cites to follow suit followed by a Nation wide launch.

For receiver advice I would wait until Sept when Denon launches the 4520 or even more interesting to you may be the Marantz ref series. I also would do my research on Audessey XT32.

Good luck
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post #32 of 42 Old 06-18-2012, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

^^^
i'm assuming you got that fine piece of equipment from lirpa labs? wink.gif
"accurate to one half harley and one half fremer"... biggrin.gif i think i may steal that... tongue.gif

Lirpa Labs? Wow, I hadn't heard that phrase in decades. I was an avid audio mag reader in the 80s and 90s but didn't get into the online forums until recently, so I had no idea that they were still around and "in business," so to speak.

Too funny. biggrin.gif

So, yes, it's a Lirpa Labs Analyzer of SoundStages (or Lirpa Labs A.S.S., as it says on the front).

For every new thing I learn, I forget two things I used to know.
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post #33 of 42 Old 06-18-2012, 09:25 AM
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^^^

our good friends at lirpa labs are alive and well, and still releasing new and innovative products on a yearly basis... smile.gif

lol... i think you should submit that as a prototype... biggrin.gif

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #34 of 42 Old 06-20-2012, 09:34 PM
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Apparently the Lirpa Labs A.S.S hadn't come to market yet at the time of Home Theater's review of the Cary Cinema 12 + Model 7.125 Amp combo.

But no matter, the reviewer glossed over the defective basic setup system, then went on gushing:

"the sense of space the Cary/Revel combo created felt limitless and pregnant with anticipation"

So, who needs an A.S.S, when, as the HT reviewer says, "The folks at Cary are blessed with good ears."
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post #35 of 42 Old 06-20-2012, 11:48 PM
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For ~10k you should only look at separates:

Mcintosh MX121+MC205

Cary cinema 12+Mcintosh MC205

Arcam AV888 +Mcintosh MC205

I have owned many brands in the past (yamaha, onkyo, arcam, anthem, marantz) and if you remotely care about music and pure SQ, none of the japanese brands come close to the boutique brands like mcintosh, arcam, anthem etc.

those above who say otherwise, don't have experience with true hi-end either didn't hear a good enough setup with good speakers, or their hearing isn't up to it.. they should feel happy (and lucky) and save their hard earned money.
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post #36 of 42 Old 06-21-2012, 06:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akhter View Post

For ~10k you should only look at separates:
Mcintosh MX121+MC205
Cary cinema 12+Mcintosh MC205
Arcam AV888 +Mcintosh MC205
I have owned many brands in the past (yamaha, onkyo, arcam, anthem, marantz) and if you remotely care about music and pure SQ, none of the japanese brands come close to the boutique brands like mcintosh, arcam, anthem etc.
those above who say otherwise, don't have experience with true hi-end either didn't hear a good enough setup with good speakers, or their hearing isn't up to it.. they should feel happy (and lucky) and save their hard earned money.

More likely, those that can't hear the difference (because it isn't there) have the experience and knowledge not to be swayed by the placebo effect.

Come back after you validate your claims in a true DBT. Should be a snap for a Golden Ear, right? rolleyes.gif
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post #37 of 42 Old 06-21-2012, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

More likely, those that can't hear the difference (because it isn't there) have the experience and knowledge not to be swayed by the placebo effect.
Come back after you validate your claims in a true DBT. Should be a snap for a Golden Ear, right? rolleyes.gif

It is almost astounding, how so many people on this forum, say in absolute terms, that different amps have no audible differences. rolleyes.gif (see, I can role my eyes too)

Yes, many amplifiers can have very similar sonic signatures, but by no means, do ALL amplifiers sound the same.

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post #38 of 42 Old 06-21-2012, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutgar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

More likely, those that can't hear the difference (because it isn't there) have the experience and knowledge not to be swayed by the placebo effect.
Come back after you validate your claims in a true DBT. Should be a snap for a Golden Ear, right? rolleyes.gif

It is almost astounding, how so many people on this forum, say in absolute terms, that different amps have no audible differences. rolleyes.gif (see, I can role my eyes too)

Yes, many amplifiers can have very similar sonic signatures, but by no means, do ALL amplifiers sound the same.

For the seemingly millionth time on AVS:

Solid state amps running within spec will sound the same. Poorly made amps, those with intentional coloration, and tubes do not fall into that description, but those are few and far between.

Linking price to amp performance is another fallacy.

Unless you have measurements or DBT results you can post that indicate otherwise...

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post #39 of 42 Old 06-21-2012, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

For the seemingly millionth time on AVS:
Solid state amps running within spec will sound the same. Poorly made amps, those with intentional coloration, and tubes do not fall into that description, but those are few and far between.
Linking price to amp performance is another fallacy.
Unless you have measurements or DBT results you can post that indicate otherwise...

In YOUR opinion. And, of course, now I see you have thrown in a bunch of non-real world caveats.

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post #40 of 42 Old 06-21-2012, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rutgar View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bfreedma View Post

For the seemingly millionth time on AVS:
Solid state amps running within spec will sound the same. Poorly made amps, those with intentional coloration, and tubes do not fall into that description, but those are few and far between.
Linking price to amp performance is another fallacy.
Unless you have measurements or DBT results you can post that indicate otherwise...

In YOUR opinion. And, of course, now I see you have thrown in a bunch of non-real world caveats.

Those are real world caveats and the same ones constantly used to avoid "true believers" running an amp to distortion to "prove" their point.

And while it may be my opinion, it's also validated science and why people on the other side of the debate run away from DBTs at high speed to avoid dealing with the reality of the situation.

Other than your opinion, have anything other than TAS reviews to support your position? A peer reviewed white paper, DBT results, etc....
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post #41 of 42 Old 06-21-2012, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Rutgar View Post

In YOUR opinion. And, of course, now I see you have thrown in a bunch of non-real world caveats.

No one said all amplifiers sound the same. (Well, you did, but I don't think anyone else did.) So, specifically relating back to the original post, please tell us how separates from Rotel, Marantz or McIntosh are going to sound any different. That's really what this thread is about. Tell us both how and why. I'll even offer some limited explanations.

On the preamp side, automatic room correction (which the Rotel preamp lacks) is likely to make an audible difference. The results of auto room correction might not sound "better," but they're sure to sound "different." As for the amplifiers, the Rotels are Class D, which at least might provide the basis for audible differences. The "sound" of Class D isn't borne out by measurements or by my personal experience, but at least it's some kind of starting point (albeit a reach).

If not those explanations, then what? This forum isn't one of those embarrassing high-end magazines where the "reviewers" make things up in an ivory tower. Here, we get rapid turnaround, and if you make dubious claims, people will want commensurate explanations.
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post #42 of 42 Old 06-21-2012, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by dean-l View Post

I'd avoid Rotel. I always have WANTED to like Rotel, but the sound and features....ehh.
I'd avoid all the Mainstream Jap brands. The SQ just isn't there. Not for the money you're spending. GET great SQ!!!!
I tried Marantz (another brand I "want" to like) and was disappointed by the SQ. Just flat, no life.
For 10K, I'd be leaning towards Cary audio, especially for the PrePro. Check out some reviews. In fact, I'm thinking of going Cary Cimena 12 and an Anthem AMP.
Try to avoid drinking the RC Kool-Aid. I'm not "against" RC, but it's SO overblown right now. Ask all the Anthem ARC fans "ARC made my system sooooo much better" then they find out ARC hasn't been right in the last FW for 2 1/2 months. How embarrassing....can you delete your old posts???? LOL!!![/quote

Just as I stated in the Anthem thread, you seem to take pleasure at bashing Anthem. Get your facts straight. Not all MRX models with that firmware experienced the problem which has now been fixed and the Statement models never had this issue. Anthem is highly regarded for their sound quality and a lot of that has to do with ARC.
The Anthem AVM50 would be a good choice with whatever amp. the OP would like.
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