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post #451 of 1102 Old 08-23-2012, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by mchrisbrown View Post

Agreed - processing can absolutely change the sound. I'm simply stating stating that the amp doesn't.

Then, the 818 and 3010 may not sound the same. Shiny new boxes can sound different. smile.gif
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post #452 of 1102 Old 08-23-2012, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

Then, the 818 and 3010 may not sound the same. Shiny new boxes can sound different. smile.gif
I usually watch a movie how it was encoded. Are you saying there is a difference in how dolby 5.1 is processed in the 818 versus the 3010? I can't imagine the decoding is any different between the two but if you are aware of differences please elaborate.
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post #453 of 1102 Old 08-23-2012, 08:26 AM
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this is 3010 5010 info or what?
move on guys
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post #454 of 1102 Old 08-23-2012, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I believe most (if not all) 4K Blu ray players will have Dual HDMI outs. Because as of today what can pass 4K? My Sony 790 up converts it and with its dual outs it makes it easy to just send one HDMI to my Receiver and the other to the display. I expect this to be the case for some time when 4K blu ray players start to hit.


I think you are right about the blu-ray players - certainly a few companies (at least) would recognize a need in the marketplace and give us the Dual HDMI outs. So 4K blu-ray movie playback shouldn't be a concern.

I wonder about gaming - interesting debate going on right now if a year-old video card - which Sony is supposedly using for the next Playstation - would be capable of giving us 4K resolution in games (as the Yahoo article says Sony is targeting 4K resolution in games).

Would Sony and Microsoft give us Dual HDMI outs on their next-gen consoles? Well, they never sought to do this for the current gen - despite each having a full console revision ("slim"), so I would think not.
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post #455 of 1102 Old 08-23-2012, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mchrisbrown View Post

I usually watch a movie how it was encoded. Are you saying there is a difference in how dolby 5.1 is processed in the 818 versus the 3010? I can't imagine the decoding is any different between the two but if you are aware of differences please elaborate.
Yes, I believe there is a difference in the way an AVR presents the sound. Some confine the sound to each speaker while others make the sound reach outside the speakers giving a larger sound. Left to right panned scenes can also sound different. At one time this was referred to as steering the sound. My UMC-1 brought the surrounds to life for rear sound as well as better panning from front to rear. I am not referring so much to tone as I am to sound coming from the speakers. Width, depth, better definition of subtle sounds, etc.
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post #456 of 1102 Old 08-23-2012, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by TL5 View Post

Does anyone know why the onkyo/Integra units can't do 4K passthrough? I mean they make a big deal
about how advanced the video processing chips are; and yet other companies AVR's (I think Denon?)
will be capable.....hard to understand.

 

I thinks it's one of the hinky things with this year's high end onkyo's , like the need to use an ext amplifer for the wides if you have a 11.x speaker set up. Probably for the vast majority of potential customers these aren't consequential so why make any cost incursions if very few would change their purchase decision. Sadly, it does impact my set up significantly despite the fact that I really like the onkyo 'sound', so I will be looking at the competition.

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post #457 of 1102 Old 08-23-2012, 05:29 PM
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can anyone comment on this thread? Do the Zone 2/3 only work with an analog signal and thus obviate any HDMI selection?
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post #458 of 1102 Old 08-23-2012, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CGMneon View Post

I think you are right about the blu-ray players - certainly a few companies (at least) would recognize a need in the marketplace and give us the Dual HDMI outs. So 4K blu-ray movie playback shouldn't be a concern.
I wonder about gaming - interesting debate going on right now if a year-old video card - which Sony is supposedly using for the next Playstation - would be capable of giving us 4K resolution in games (as the Yahoo article says Sony is targeting 4K resolution in games).
Would Sony and Microsoft give us Dual HDMI outs on their next-gen consoles? Well, they never sought to do this for the current gen - despite each having a full console revision ("slim"), so I would think not.



Regarding 4K Content from single HDMI output devices:

The 5010 and 3010 both support "Audio Return Channel" (ARC) functionality. So in lieu of having actual 4K Pass-through capability, perhaps this is a possible workaround if 4K Pass-through ever becomes important down the road. Confirmed per page 21 of the 5010/3010 instruction manual.

"Audio Return Channel" Information Link

As long as the 4K Projector/HDTV supports ARC, too, sounds easy enough to coordinate. Connect the PS4/Xbox720 directly to the ARC-supported projector/HDTV, then send out the audio via the projector/HDTV's output and connect to the designated "HDMI Out Main" on the 5010/3010.

Entirely possible this won't be important, but nice to know its an option.

Hope no one minds I quoted myself. Just thought I should provide context for my comments. wink.gif
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post #459 of 1102 Old 08-24-2012, 05:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Patrick Murphy View Post

In 'Speaker Setup'>Configuration, setting the crossover of the speaker to anything other than 'Full Range' (LARGE) makes them SMALL. Audyssey recommends to never use Full Range and set a c/o for all speakers if you are using a subwoofer. With XT32, Audyssey has also stated that with the higher resolution filters and the amount of them, you can leave the c/o as the calibration found them (except for Full Range), set this to at least 40Hz (SMALL).
https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/20632041-xt32-crossover-new-mic-results
http://www.avsforum.com/a/audyssey-faq-and-beginners-101-setup-guide#user_C
*Even with XT32 on my 818, I still set them to 80Hz.
*In MY opinion.
***Edited to reflect that this and most any statement that I make is solely MY position and should not be taken as fact or irrefutable evidence.

Thanks! I am just used to having a large or small setting seperate from the frequency setting. None of them are listed as full range, which is good. smile.gif
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post #460 of 1102 Old 08-24-2012, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick Murphy View Post

In 'Speaker Setup'>Configuration, setting the crossover of the speaker to anything other than 'Full Range' (LARGE) makes them SMALL. Audyssey recommends to never use Full Range and set a c/o for all speakers if you are using a subwoofer. With XT32, Audyssey has also stated that with the higher resolution filters and the amount of them, you can leave the c/o as the calibration found them (except for Full Range), set this to at least 40Hz (SMALL).
https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/20632041-xt32-crossover-new-mic-results
http://www.avsforum.com/a/audyssey-faq-and-beginners-101-setup-guide#user_C
*Even with XT32 on my 818, I still set them to 80Hz.
*In MY opinion.
***Edited to reflect that this and most any statement that I make is solely MY position and should not be taken as fact or irrefutable evidence.

Love the disclaimers! smile.gif

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post #461 of 1102 Old 08-24-2012, 07:06 AM
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I just wanted to point out (since I have had about 10 people ask) that if you are going to be using one of these Receivers as a pre-pro then definitely the 3010 would be my choice. Only used as pure Receivers is there a slight difference. Even then it is tough to justify. And before I am asked if you plan to have it just do the backs, Rears or Heights then I still go 3010. Having a good 5 channel Amp (I have a Parasound A51) with a 3010 makes a pulse pounding combo! eek.gif

And sorta as Patrick put it...biggrin.gif. Any statements made in the above post are my opinion and should not be considered end all be all facts. These are just based on my own personal experience. smile.gif

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post #462 of 1102 Old 08-24-2012, 07:28 AM
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Love the disclaimers! smile.gif

Feel free to use it.
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post #463 of 1102 Old 08-24-2012, 07:44 AM
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^ A dreadfully ill-footed (and unnecessarily inciting and dramatic) analogy, but, sigh, moving on...

To answer the 2 posts asking:

NO, you cannot output DIGITAL/SPDIF inputs to the Zones.

James

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post #464 of 1102 Old 08-24-2012, 08:13 AM
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Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

^ A dreadfully ill-footed (and unnecessarily inciting and dramatic) analogy, but, sigh, moving on...
To answer the 2 posts asking:
NO, you cannot output DIGITAL/SPDIF inputs to the Zones.
James

You're right, edited.
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post #465 of 1102 Old 08-24-2012, 08:44 AM
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And so do Jaclyn's Poms!!! biggrin.gif


Let me get this straight: poignant, relevant, criticism regarding how someone forms their opinions on AVR sound quality is poo-poo'd, but posting pictures of dogs is perfectly fine?

good grief.

Have a great weekend, everyone.

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post #466 of 1102 Old 08-24-2012, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

Then, the 818 and 3010 may not sound the same. Shiny new boxes can sound different. smile.gif

if you are using the internal amp, they may sound different. I have a 818 and I sold it. Then recently I bought 5010 after I audition it. The amp is much better than the 818. Althought 818 have XT32 but the amp section is just not up to it.
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post #467 of 1102 Old 08-24-2012, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by mchrisbrown View Post

EXACTLY - this should be a sticky somewhere. Even though it's all true I've been waiting for the flames just out of curiosity because most people really want to believe their shiny new and expensive box sounds much better. I'm probably going to end up with a 3010 but my decision is based on features. I could almost go with the 818 but really want the 3 zones at one time and second HDMI out with separate source. I'll be spending a ton of extra dough for a couple of features which is a bit frustrating but that's the way it is. I don't expect the 3010 to sound any better than the 818 because it's been proven that people can't cant hear the differences in amps (watts is watts). If anyone can hear the difference I suggest you take advantage of your golden ears and be the first to get paid by taking the Richard Clark Amplifier Challenge (google it). You can win a bunch of money and then we could all benefit from the sound quality reviews of that person since they will have proven the difference is audible - everybody wins!

I have tried 818 and now 5010 with my speakers. they are totally different. Yes watt is watt but the dynamic given in more power amp is different even in low volume.
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post #468 of 1102 Old 08-24-2012, 09:48 AM
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Those dont need ipod direct connect, decode m4a, network browse, MHL, Bluetooth playback, or 11 channels.. I would think 5009 is good option than 3010. But I didnt audition 3010, so I no idea how much is 5009 better.

5009 amp is as good as 5010.
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post #469 of 1102 Old 08-24-2012, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post

Yes, I believe there is a difference in the way an AVR presents the sound. Some confine the sound to each speaker while others make the sound reach outside the speakers giving a larger sound. Left to right panned scenes can also sound different. At one time this was referred to as steering the sound. My UMC-1 brought the surrounds to life for rear sound as well as better panning from front to rear. I am not referring so much to tone as I am to sound coming from the speakers. Width, depth, better definition of subtle sounds, etc.

I found the onkyos do this better than denon in there price class. The sound stage blend is so much smoother with the onkyos over other avrs. I heard the difference right away.
Onkyo and Yamaha do alot for sound field science, you can tell just by all the sound modes offered, Yamaha does take it to the max, sony did too, when sony was in the highend AVR market..
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post #470 of 1102 Old 08-24-2012, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

Let me get this straight: poignant, relevant, criticism regarding how someone forms their opinions on AVR sound quality is poo-poo'd, but posting pictures of dogs is perfectly fine?
good grief.
Have a great weekend, everyone.
James

The poms may be a little over the top but the German Shepards are seasoned movie watchers....smile.gif

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post #471 of 1102 Old 08-24-2012, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post


The poms may be a little over the top but the German Shepards are seasoned movie watchers....smile.gif

 

Those posted pictures of 'family members' enjoying this hobby are far more the essence of why we all here than some of the bombast and flame that is too often posted...keep the pootches pitch the BS.

tkroeker and nlpearman like this.
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post #472 of 1102 Old 08-24-2012, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jlanzy View Post

Those posted pictures of 'family members' enjoying this hobby are far more the essence of why we all here than some of the bombast and flame that is too often posted...keep the pootches pitch the BS.

A big plus 1for you so right on.

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post #473 of 1102 Old 08-24-2012, 02:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

The poms may be a little over the top but the German Shepards are seasoned movie watchers....smile.gif

From what I understand, Shepards are also better at distinguishing the subtle differences between receivers. I suspect it was not actually YOU who noticed the 3010 - 5010 differences, but the shepards...
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post #474 of 1102 Old 08-24-2012, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybrsage View Post

From what I understand, Shepards are also better at distinguishing the subtle differences between receivers. I suspect it was not actually YOU who noticed the 3010 - 5010 differences, but the shepards...

I know some will claim coincidence but seriously they barked at the 5009 and 5010 sound! Hondo comes from a family of K9s and Rocco is with me on every Review the past 5 years. Sure they many times tilt their heads looking but when I put I Am Legend in they barked. The human voices and animals have that "In the room" sound. If I put in The Strangers they freak out with all the knocking and pounding in all the speakers. Spooky! eek.gif

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post #475 of 1102 Old 08-25-2012, 09:15 AM
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I have never owned a nine channel receiver before and was wondering once I expand it to eleven channels, can I watch movies with all speakers active?

Or do I have to choose between heights, sides and backs?
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post #476 of 1102 Old 08-25-2012, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by sonic debauchery View Post

I have never owned a nine channel receiver before and was wondering once I expand it to eleven channels, can I watch movies with all speakers active?
Or do I have to choose between heights, sides and backs?

No problem, if you add at least a stereo amp, you can do 11 channels simultaneously with the latest generation. Be greedy!

xx07 and xx08 generation: 9 channel max with Back Surround, but only one to pick from Height or Wide
xx09 generation: 9 channel max, choose any two out of W/H/Back Surround
xx10 generation: up to 11 channel simultaneously.

Building a HT with 7.2.4 layout and SEOS-24 LCR.
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post #477 of 1102 Old 08-25-2012, 08:15 PM
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thank you
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post #478 of 1102 Old 08-25-2012, 09:29 PM
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Any word or rumor on a PR-SC5510? The SC5509 was not offered in the U.S., and while my SC5507 has been great, technology marches on. I have two subs, and in most "opinions" I have read on these forums XT32 would offer a significant improvement in sound over the plain vanilla XT I have in my 5507.
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post #479 of 1102 Old 08-25-2012, 09:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonic debauchery View Post

I have never owned a nine channel receiver before and was wondering once I expand it to eleven channels, can I watch movies with all speakers active?
Or do I have to choose between heights, sides and backs?

The 3010 and 5010 only have 9 amps inside, so you must add an external amp to do all 11 channels. If you do not, you have to select which set you want to not use. For me, I do not have front wides setup (room is only 12 foot wide, so no need), so I am using the standard 5.1 with rear surrounds and front heights to make 9.1.
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post #480 of 1102 Old 08-26-2012, 12:38 PM
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Is onkyo have history provide upgrade option for their higher model in future?

Like Denon recently announce upgrade 3D + xt32 to their old model.
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