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post #541 of 1119 Old 09-07-2012, 07:42 AM
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There is a special front key combination to be pressed for either action, which i don't have available right now not beeing at home.
It should be the same as for the xx008 and x009 series AVRs.
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post #542 of 1119 Old 09-07-2012, 07:56 AM
 
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When you get a chance to post it, please do. No rush. It is not listed in the 3010/5010 user manual (I did a pdf search for both save and restore). Meanwhile, I will do a bing search for it.
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post #543 of 1119 Old 09-07-2012, 08:54 AM
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Wow, 19 pages in a few months. Admit I haven't read every page yet, will be working on that the next few days..

JoeRod, when do you think you will be done with your reviews? Really looking forward to it. Part of me wants to hear the new 3010/5010 is far superior to the 3009/5009, but the other part of me doesn't with the prices SO low on those older models now..

I have been looking at the comparison charts on Onkyo trying to decide what I really "Need" over what I really "Want".
I honestly started looking at the 616 vs. 818. The Power was #1 for me, as I do have a 7.1 (Tower speaker fronts, Mid size surrounds) in my theater room. Figured the power on the 616 wouldn't be high enough (I had that issue with my TSXR-605, not enough power even almost maxed, and had to go back to my OLD TSDX-787 which had to be one of the best amps of all times, it's like 15+ years old, still the most powerful amp, I just use an HDMI switch, but have lost TrueHD, etc.. so *thinking minimum would be the 818.

From the 616 to the 818, the only real differences I see are: (Leaving out Analog in/out type stuff)
135W vs 100W
3-Stage Inverted Darlington Circuitry (anyone help explain why this is important?)
Independent Block Construction (Amp/Preprocessor) (Ditto)
Bi-amp Capability For Front (Ditto)
DTS-HD Express (Ditto)
THX Processing Mode (Does this mean the others won't play THX material?)
isf Certified Calibration Control (Sounds like marketing)
additional coax audio input
RS232 port (used for?)
Bi-Directional/upgraded remote
Audyssey MultiEQXT32

From the 818 to the 1010, the only main differences I see are:
5 Watts more power
.05 vs .08 Distortion (how impactful is this .03 diff?)
Push-Pull Design (Needed or Marketing?)
Digital Crossover Processing Network (?)
Additional Optical In (Front)
1 more HDMI input
3D video, Audio Return Channel, DeepColor, x.v.Color, LipSync, CEC - (This one concerns me about the last years models, none have this. That OK for HDMI not to have this? Sounds pretty crucial.)

From the 1010 to the 3010, the only main differences I see are: (Can't see justification here for these 2 main features. I know if you have 9.2 speakers setup that is different...)
9.2 speakers
4 Transformers

So that leaves me really looking forward to JoeRod's review. Because it seems the 818 may do "almost" everything I would need, but at the price of the 818, If I can get the 3009 which provides the bonuses like:
9.2
.05 THD
4 Transformers
No 4k Up-scaling (they do pass through? Don't care about any up-scaling)
No (advanced "Home" GUI)
It sounds like a no-brainer?

The main overall concern with last years models is the HDMI specs. How do they compare to this years? I notice it says (simultaneous out) . Does this mean you can't have 2 inputs on 2 seperate outputs? So it's not a Matrix Switch, but a Splitter? That would suck. But I could continue to use my 4x4 Active Matrix Switch, just loose all HDMI feature capabilities then. frown.gif
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post #544 of 1119 Old 09-07-2012, 09:12 AM
 
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His review is finished and you can find it here:

http://hstrial-jrodriguez996.homestead.com/ONKYO-TX-NR1010-3010-5010-Reviews-and-Comparison.html?_=1344975582259


Though he still needs to master the addition of some white space to break up the wall of text. wink.gif Paragraphs, my friend Joe, paragraphs...


EDIT: Basically, he said there is no discernable improvement between the 09 and 10 models in the same range, but there is some when going from the 30 to the 50. I personally love the inclusion of NEO:X, as I use that exclusively for everything (I have a 9.1 system - about to be a 9.2). I also am happy about the dual sub equalization from Audyssey, since I am about to do two subs, but I am not sure if the 09 had that too.
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post #545 of 1119 Old 09-07-2012, 11:39 AM
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Can someone confirm how the zone 2 HDMI works? Is it true that it cannot display the same source as zone 1? That would be a tragedy as I love to be able to have the the game (or whatever) on in the main living area and the TV on the deck at the same time. Is this possible? I'd like to have the flexibility to have the 2nd zone HDMI play the same or different source as zone 1 depending on my needs at the same time. Can this be done?
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post #546 of 1119 Old 09-07-2012, 01:06 PM
 
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I used both HDMI outputs at the same time and played the same video over them. I did not setup discrete zones, though, and I never tried two different outputs - only the same output to both. The only problem I ran into is that the secondary HDMI output does not support HDMI-CEC, so it does not fit my needs. I have an HDMI splitter from Monoprice that works perfectly and allows HDMI-CEC to function from both end points. I have a Plasma and a Projector and I use them both to turn on and off the Onkyo 3010 when I turn them on. Here is the HDMI splitter, about $30.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10113&cs_id=1011306&p_id=8204&seq=1&format=2#description
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post #547 of 1119 Old 09-07-2012, 04:27 PM
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Yes cybrsage, I will add more on my paragraphs next time. I promise. smile.gif

And you summed it up nicely. I actually have a 5010 here now I'm using with a Parasound A51 and I am loving DTS NEO: X with Blu ray. And Dolby with DSX for sports (like football)... smile.gif

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post #548 of 1119 Old 09-07-2012, 06:33 PM
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3009 & 5009 do have subeq. There is an improvement from 3009 to 5009 sound/presence wise and definitely from 809,1009 & 818 to 3009 & up. I went through all (809, 1009, 818, 3009) before settling on a 5009 (with the prices now hard to pass). Wanted to have 11.4 capabilities but I really don't have the space for it, currently rocking 9.2 and loving it

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post #549 of 1119 Old 09-08-2012, 08:44 AM
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Thanks for the link, and thanks for the great reviews JoeRod! Agree it could use some line breaks smile.gif, just used another window to create a line, and kept on reading.
I think after reading both your 3009/3010/5009/5010 Review first, then reading your 818 review, I am still confused !?! On what I should get. They both basically say I am going to be super happy with whichever one I ultimately get.

I have a few remaining technical questions that may make my mind up if you guys don't mind helping me out.
I think I have narrowed it down to either the 3009 from last years model, or the 818 from this years model.

1. The main overall concern with last years models is the HDMI specs. How do they compare to this years? I notice it says (simultaneous out) on the 3009. This doesn't sound good to me. Does this mean it's not a Matrix Switch, but a Splitter? If I need to continue to use my 4x4 Active Matrix Switch and lose the HDMI features of the 3009, it's not the end of the world, but I lose some cool video features (onscreen display, upconversion, etc). But that is assuming that the 818 IS? a Matrix Switch? Meaning I can watch DirecTV on my projector, and have my TV in the other room showing a BluRay. I actually have 4 TV's that run off my switch now, but 3 of them I would be fine showing the "Output 2 or Backup" HDMI out of the Amp, and the remaining TV/Projector running a different source on "Output 1 or Main" Sorry for the long message, trying to give a good picture of my dilemma/decision tree smile.gif

2. Power Output. Both of your reviews seemed outstanding on all the Onkyo's (almost sounded like you worked for Onkyo a few times smile.gif ), and don't really talk about power differences from the 818 to the top 3 tier models. Since you were using the same power rating speakers, was there a significant difference in the way the speakers sounded? Did you have to turn the volume up more to get the same "level" of sound?

818: 135W (8ohms 20-20kHz, 0.08%
3009: 140W (8ohms 20-20kHz, 0.05%

In my only experience with power differences, I was going from a difference of 85W to 135W or so, as well as the .08 to .05 distortion. I had to go from ~50 volume on my 135W Onkyo to ~80 volume on the 85W Onkyo.

I guess at the conclusion, it comes down to the 2 things, Is the 818 enough power since you gain the additional 2012 features, but has additional distortion, or is it better to go with the 3009 and lose the HDMI functionality but gain additional power with better hardware and lower distortion.
Thanks all,
G
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post #550 of 1119 Old 09-08-2012, 08:59 AM
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You are most welcome. Both are very close in power. Here is a big question that will help with the choice. How many subwoofers will you be using and if the answer is one will you ever consider adding another? The 3009 overall has better sound. The 818 has newer features like InstaPrevue (not that it is something that is super important by any means). Still, for the money I would take the 3009 and the better parts, SubEQ and just overall "clearer" or slightly more "defined" sound. smile.gif

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post #551 of 1119 Old 09-08-2012, 10:14 AM
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Hi JoeRod,
I will most likely not use 2 subs in the next 5-10 years with my current theater room setup. That said I will also not use 9.x but 7.1 , until I move out of this house and custom design my next theater room with additional outlets, etc.

As you mentioned I don't really care too much about the InstaPrevue, but I take it that means that the 818 will output 2 different sources, whereas the 3009 will only act as a Splitter?
If you say that the 3009 will do "Dual" output and not "Split" my decision is made, I need to get the 3009. Do you use the 3009/5009 with multiple monitors using different sources? Or do you use an external HDMI Matrix Switch? Sorry if I am dense on this, just trying to fully understand the capabilities.

Haha, now with all of that said, have you seen this?
http://www.frys.com/product/7016231?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
I am going to look at the comparison closely between the 616 vs 818, there may be a lot but $329 vs $999 for the additional power? Man.... (Hope I am not breaking any policy by linking or saying price, if so I will remove)

Thanks,
G
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post #552 of 1119 Old 09-08-2012, 11:09 AM
 
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The 818 has Audyssey XT32 whereas the 616 only has Audyssey 2EQ. XT32 is MUCH MUCH MUCH better, and you will be happy to have it.
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post #553 of 1119 Old 09-08-2012, 11:49 AM
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I hear ya CybrSage, but for that one time type of setup, do you think it's worth the additional $670? (999-329=670). That's the price of 3 of the 616's smile.gif
It may just be because I haven't had any experience with the differences in XT32 vs 2EQ, last I had was the first Audussy setup, which I ended up not using and tweaking the speakers individually myself.
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post #554 of 1119 Old 09-08-2012, 12:04 PM
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That's like asking if there is vast difference between filet mignon and chopped sirloin. It just depends how serious you are about the sound and of course where your budget is at. It's not fair to compare. smile.gif

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post #555 of 1119 Old 09-08-2012, 02:52 PM
 
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Joe is correct. The 616 version of Audyssey is good...of that there is no doubt. But it is not nearly as good as the 818 version. Only your budget can decide if it is worth it...and you imperfect your room and speaker setup is. Room correction software is one of the best things to happen to home theaters. If you can swing the extra few hundred, you will be happy you did. Remember, it is a one time expense for a long time of better sound. If you cannot afford it, do not worry, the 2EQ is a great system as it is. smile.gif
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post #556 of 1119 Old 09-09-2012, 05:14 PM
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I can't seem to get the 5010 to do a factory reset. As noted before, I have already done the firmware upgrade. When I follow the instructions in the manual:


"If you can’t resolve the issue yourself, try resetting the
AV receiver before contacting your Onkyo dealer.
To reset the AV receiver to its factory defaults, turn it
on and, while holding down CBL/SAT, press
􀀙ON/STANDBY. “Clear” will appear on the AV
receiver’s display and the AV receiver will enter
standby mode."

I have tried this numerous times and "Clear" never appears. I have held the CBL/SAT down for almost a minute, while turning the unit on, with no results. Is there some trick to it?

Also nothing has changed since the firmware upgrade in terms of not allowing me to select 11 channel output, or it even being able to send sound through the right, "side/surround" speakers during Audssey setup, as I experienced before. The only diffference is that since the firmware upgrade, the 5010 does not respond to any up or down movement or control from the disc on the remote.

I am beginning to think that this decision and purchase may have been a serious mistake. Add this to the fact that I now have to have knee surgery on Tuesday, and if I cannot get this working before then, I will not be able to work on it againfor likely two weeks. And will be without a home theater while recuperating.

The frustration continues mad.gif


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post #557 of 1119 Old 09-09-2012, 05:21 PM
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Are you pressing the CBL/SAT button on the front panel?



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post #558 of 1119 Old 09-09-2012, 05:40 PM
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I am still contemplating whether upgrading my current Onkyo 807 to the Onkyo 5010 is going to be worth the $$ to upgrade to? The 807 has MultEQ.....will I notice a vast improvement to MultEQ XT32?
I think the 5010 has 10 more watts per channel and separate transformers for audio and video but is all that worth it or no?
I guess the big question I want to know is will you even notice a difference in sound quality and clarity??

Thanks for anyone that has any input. smile.gif
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post #559 of 1119 Old 09-09-2012, 05:49 PM
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Most assuredly yes. The guys in the Denon 4311CI thread having come from XT models even notice an improvement and that's with only a 32x speaker filter resolution and 4x sub filter resolution increase. Coming from MultEQ there's a 256x filter resolution increase eek.gif and the same 4x sub filter resolution increase.

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post #560 of 1119 Old 09-09-2012, 06:14 PM
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The football games today had same room sound! It was as if the QB was in front of us yelling out the signals using DSX! The crowd was just as impressive. My family was floored. Great ear candy. smile.gif
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post #561 of 1119 Old 09-09-2012, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stylz25 View Post

I am still contemplating whether upgrading my current Onkyo 807 to the Onkyo 5010 is going to be worth the $$ to upgrade to? The 807 has MultEQ.....will I notice a vast improvement to MultEQ XT32?
I think the 5010 has 10 more watts per channel and separate transformers for audio and video but is all that worth it or no?
I guess the big question I want to know is will you even notice a difference in sound quality and clarity??
Thanks for anyone that has any input. smile.gif

I didn't notice a vast improvement when comparing the nr1009 to the nr3009 for a few weeks. The sound was better because the 3009 is better than the 1009 not because of audyssey. It wouldn't make sense to get the 5010 when the mc5500 is less and has a 4 ohm rating and the 5010 doesn't.

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post #562 of 1119 Old 09-09-2012, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Are you pressing the CBL/SAT button on the front panel?


No, I was pressing the CBL/SAT button on the remote.



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post #563 of 1119 Old 09-10-2012, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alec88 View Post

I didn't notice a vast improvement when comparing the nr1009 to the nr3009 for a few weeks. The sound was better because the 3009 is better than the 1009 not because of audyssey. It wouldn't make sense to get the 5010 when the mc5500 is less and has a 4 ohm rating and the 5010 doesn't.

I have my 5010 set to 4ohms. eek.gif

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post #564 of 1119 Old 09-10-2012, 07:43 AM
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John: I think you're doing it wrong. According to JoeRod, on page 18, you should push not the VCR button, but CBL/SAT, while pressing the onstandby on the monitor (in front panel),and wait until apears clear on the receiver's monitor.
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post #565 of 1119 Old 09-10-2012, 09:20 AM
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Joerod: doesn't the receiver run too hot in 4 ohm? What impedance have your speakers?
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post #566 of 1119 Old 09-10-2012, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by waltie View Post

Joerod: doesn't the receiver run too hot in 4 ohm? What impedance have your speakers?

Not too hot at all. Of course it does help to use Antec Component Coolers. smile.gif

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post #567 of 1119 Old 09-10-2012, 06:01 PM
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Hey Guys,
Thanks for all the feedback. Since there was a store locally that had the 616 in stock, thought I would try it out to get hands on experience of a few features of FY12 to see if I really needed/cared about them.
Definitely not quite enough power, to get it to the right sound volume I have to go to "82 (Ref)" but then it's not quite as clear, possibly also a feature of the .08THD at that high a volume.
The features are pretty cool with the InstaView, and basic Audessey settings, which I redid, it was incorrect about my type of speakers.

/Rant On (forgive, need to let off some steam since I am such an Onkyo fan)
Since I didn't get a clear response on this years models and how they handle the Dual HDMI output, I figured I could test it myself as well. That was quickly understood during setup when it asked if I only wanted Main, Sub, or Both output.
I don't really understand how in 2012, Onkyo can have 8 HDMI inputs and only 2 outputs that can't even output 2 different sources. So this is no different than the Onkyo I had 2-3 years ago with dual out. Unless I am wrong (please correct me if so), I don't think there is any difference in the 3009/5009 in this regard.
It would be ideal if they made the ports anything you wanted In/Out, so like 4 in/4 out etc. But at minimum like the $25 Dual HDMI Matrix switch I had would be fine if it were built in to support the features.
As I mentioned, if you have to use an HDMI switch, all of those features go away, and your left with 2 Toslink inputs and 2/3 coax inputs (which not much stuff has these days, so you also run short on digital audio inputs).
I suppose HDMI isn't in their forte' as they have had so many returns on them since the pre-firmware issue (the same reason the audio guy at Best Buy said is the reason they stopped selling Onkyo completely).
/Rant Off smile.gif

So the good news -
This is helping me lean towards getting the TX-NR3009, for all the nice features of the amp/power/etc since I will be forced to use my 4x4 Active Matrix HDMI switch, and won't be able to use the cool Intra features or onscreen setup.

Now just to find it for under 1k (Fry's is killing me showing it at that price, and not having any stores with it in stock)
Or will just make myself get by for another year, until the 2012's are selling 3010 for under 1k smile.gif
G
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post #568 of 1119 Old 09-10-2012, 09:31 PM
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Yes G, the 616 is a nice Receiver to get your feet wet with. However, it doesn't represent just how well the sound is with the higher ends. That goes for all the 3009, 5009 and of course the 3010 and 5010. It's like ordering a "tribute" song on iTunes instead of the original. Sure it's decent and fun to sing a long with but nothing like the real thing. smile.gif

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post #569 of 1119 Old 09-11-2012, 09:21 PM
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The 3010 and 5010 have Audyssey Pro and it appears to be available in all regions. The 3009 and 5009 have disclaimers saying that it is only available on EU and Asian models, while the 3010 and 5010 do not have any disclaimers.

HD-A1 + XBOX Add-On + PS3 = Format Neutral
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post #570 of 1119 Old 09-12-2012, 06:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gurkey View Post

If you do a software reset too, you will lose all your personal settings and end up with the manufacturers default setting.
You may do a store/restore settings, to save and reestablish your personal settings afterwards. But i am not quite sure if this will preserve an Audyssey calibration.

Did you ever have time to find the key combo to save/restore the settings?
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