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post #1111 of 1128 Old 08-19-2014, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by SeekingNirvana View Post
I am actually a owner of a 3009, but I also follow this thread. I follow this thread because the activity on the 3009 is slow and being the 09 and 10 units are mostly the same.

I just took the 3009 out of my system to send in for repairs. I've owned it for a year and a half, but started to have problems about a year in. I called tech support and they ran me through a bunch of tests, and over the phone they determined the HDMI board was starting to fail.

Fwiw
thats been the story for years now

I have a 5009 that may have ...like 6 hours on it

It was a warranty replacement for a 905 that had failed a few times

During the course of all the back and forth I went ahead and bought another receiver

then they decided they were replacing the Onkyo 905 with a new 5009 unit

In the closet it sits

Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Onkyo 5508 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp Atlantic technology System 350 THX Ultra speakers
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Pioneer Denon 4520 Celestion 305 speaker system
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post #1112 of 1128 Old 08-19-2014, 05:53 PM
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The X010 models seem to be the year they fixed their HDMI board issues...or at least we should be proving that around now.
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post #1113 of 1128 Old 08-20-2014, 02:30 AM
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Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
I've got my eye on the 3010. Amazon has it at $1300 which I believe is a steal for what you get with it.


My other thought was the Denon x4000. The Onkyo seems better in all respects for the same price.


Does anyone use the THX setting? Difference?


Thoughts?
I have both and enjoy the X4000 better. The hdmi switching is much more solid on the x4000. The 3010 does have more features and a better gui
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post #1114 of 1128 Old 08-20-2014, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by htpcforever View Post
The X010 models seem to be the year they fixed their HDMI board issues...or at least we should be proving that around now.
My 3010 is at Onkyo now for hdmi issues. I dont think it is an inherit problem with the 3010 but a problem of having cable tv line grounded.
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post #1115 of 1128 Old 08-20-2014, 08:04 AM
 
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Originally Posted by cablebandit3 View Post
I have both and enjoy the X4000 better. The hdmi switching is much more solid on the x4000. The 3010 does have more features and a better gui


So does your 3010 have a lag or drop signals with HDMI? Explain?


Also what about the power differences? Do you feel that the Onkyo is more powerful?
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post #1116 of 1128 Old 08-20-2014, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ClawAndTalon View Post
So does your 3010 have a lag or drop signals with HDMI? Explain?


Also what about the power differences? Do you feel that the Onkyo is more powerful?


The hdmi on the Onkyo just seems to take awhile to sync while the Denon does not and the denon acts like the hdmi switching/syncing is very solid.

As far as power, I believe on paper that the 3010 has more power....i forget the specs. I use an external amp to power my fronts so I am not able to tell a difference in power as my center/surrounds are very efficient Klipsch speakers which dont take a lot to power.

When I get the 3010 back, I will run it in place of the x4000 a bit and see what my impressions are and report back. I should have it back within a week or 2 according to Onkyo. Again, I don't THINK the 3010 has hdmi issues like the 3007 it replaced. It seems that not having the cable splitter/feed grounded probably zapped the hdmi port during a storm. I just got my x4000 back for hdmi board replacement, as well as changing out the motherboard on my htpc because it lost hdmi at the same time. I lost an hdmi port on my tv as well when the 3010 lost hdmi and the only thing I find consistent is the Comcast wasnt grounded when I lost hdmi. I DO think the 3007 actually had a design problem...3010 I dont think so YET.
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post #1117 of 1128 Old 08-20-2014, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cablebandit3 View Post
I have both and enjoy the X4000 better. The hdmi switching is much more solid on the x4000. The 3010 does have more features and a better gui
the 3010 is more comparable to the Denon 4520...if you were cross shopping brands



Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Onkyo 5508 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp Atlantic technology System 350 THX Ultra speakers
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Pioneer Denon 4520 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Samsung 51E8000 Yamaha A2010 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
Rm 4 Panasonic 50ST50 Onkyo 5009/906 Mirage Omni sat speaker system
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post #1118 of 1128 Old 08-20-2014, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by htpcforever View Post
The X010 models seem to be the year they fixed their HDMI board issues...or at least we should be proving that around now.
actually in 6 -12 months would be a better litmus test

the XX09 models are starting to fail now

if its the same deal next year with the XX10's...we will know nothing has really changed


Warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Onkyo 5508 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp Atlantic technology System 350 THX Ultra speakers
Rm 2 LG 47LE8500 Pioneer Denon 4520 Celestion 305 speaker system
Rm 3 Samsung 51E8000 Yamaha A2010 Kef 2005.2 speaker system
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post #1119 of 1128 Old 09-09-2014, 04:02 PM
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I've had the 3010 for a few months now. (a free replacement for a 3007). I thought this new unit had bi-directional remote control functions but you have to punch in codes instead. The 3007 you just aimed the remote at the receiver and it downloaded the codes automatically. Am I missing something?
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post #1120 of 1128 Old 09-29-2014, 06:08 AM
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Turns out they did fix the 3010 - but part way through the product cycle. They are fixing a TON of Onkyo models for free (including free round trip shipping AND they send you a box). Go to this thread for info on how to see if you are affected:


Onkyo acknowledges failed units and extending warrranties until 2018

Non-standard RAIDs can recover deleted files. Anyone who says RAID protection is only for failed drives is lying.
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post #1121 of 1128 Old 10-16-2014, 10:59 PM
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I have great news for TX-NR3010 / 5010 owners who hook their PCs up and have been frustrated by the lack of 4:4:4 chroma subsampling support. I tried turning off the HDMI board (BD/DVD + Power button), turning on/off Deep Color (STB/DVR + Power button) and turning off the video processor (CBL/SAT + Return button), but the Onkyo was still cropping the signal to 4:2:2. I was surprised to see that turning off the video processor was NOT disabling the OSD, which obviously means it's no longer working as intended (disabling the video processor on previous Onkyo models actually fully disabled the video processor, OSD and all). The solution was to use the SUB out instead of Main out for the HDMI output. This apparently bypasses the main video processor completely. It still does some level of video processing because there is a limited OSD (must be coming from the other video chip), but 4:4:4 works!!!! No more blurriness for my PC, I am so happy. I've had Onkyo AVRs for two years now, and in just the 30 minutes or so since figuring out how to get 4:4:4 working, I can't believe I lived without it for that long. My pc games look so, so much better and reading colored text on websites doesn't give me eyestrain.

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post #1122 of 1128 Old 10-17-2014, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by MyKillK View Post
I have great news for TX-NR3010 / 5010 owners who hook their PCs up and have been frustrated by the lack of 4:4:4 chroma subsampling support. I tried turning off the HDMI board (BD/DVD + Power button), turning on/off Deep Color (STB/DVR + Power button) and turning off the video processor (CBL/SAT + Return button), but the Onkyo was still cropping the signal to 4:2:2. I was surprised to see that turning off the video processor was NOT disabling the OSD, which obviously means it's no longer working as intended (disabling the video processor on previous Onkyo models actually fully disabled the video processor, OSD and all). The solution was to use the SUB out instead of Main out for the HDMI output. This apparently bypasses the main video processor completely. It still does some level of video processing because there is a limited OSD (must be coming from the other video chip), but 4:4:4 works!!!! No more blurriness for my PC, I am so happy. I've had Onkyo AVRs for two years now, and in just the 30 minutes or so since figuring out how to get 4:4:4 working, I can't believe I lived without it for that long. My pc games look so, so much better and reading colored text on websites doesn't give me eyestrain.
What? I use the Main output on the 5010 to the Kuro and see no blurriness to my PC desktop, all looks clear and sharp. I don't recall what settings now (pass-through etc.) but when I got the 5010 I disabled anything that added video processing I could find as it makes the picture worse, adds lag and lip sync issues. Maybe they make really bad over the air analog video look better but they add a big chunk of money for the fancy video chips that make most stuff look worse. Anyway, how do you tell if your PC is sending 4:4:4 or not? Why would that make it blurry?

Maybe your TV is toggling modes based on the signal from the AVR. I recall there is a PC mode of some kind in the Kuro TV but it looked off and I think disabled dot by dot mode.

I also had an issue once with my PC video driver that somehow sent a bad HDMI signal that looked fine through the Main 5010 output to the Kuro but shifted the colors on the SUB output that I use with a small TV in the office. So the 5010 definitely dose some funky stuff between the SUB and MAIN outputs. More so than just the supper dumb fact that the menus are different. LAME!

All tech has it’s issues but (Onkyo) AVRs are big and expensive, full of bugs and just not well thought out / tested.

Last edited by Tanquen; 10-17-2014 at 04:36 PM.
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post #1123 of 1128 Old 10-17-2014, 11:25 AM
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What? I use the Main output on the 5010 to the Kuro and see no blurriness to my PC desktop, all looks clear and sharp. I don't recall what settings now (pass-through etc.) but when I got the 5010 I disabled anything that added video processing I could find as it makes the picture worse, adds lag and lip sync issues. Maybe they make really bad over the air analog video look better but they add a big chunk of money for the fancy video chips that make most stuff look worse. Anyway, how do you tell if your PC is sending 4:4:4 or not? Why would that make it blurry?

Maybe your TV is toggling modes based on the signal from the AVR. I recall there is a PC mode of some kind in the Kuro TV but it looked off and I think disabled dot by dot mode.

I also had an issue once with my PC video driver that somehow sent a bad HDMI signal that looked fine through the Main 5010 output to the Kuro but shifted the colors on the SUB output that I use with a small TV in the office. So the 5010 definitely dose some funky stuff between the SUB and MAIN outputs. More so than just the supper dumb fact that the menus are different. LAME!

All tech has it’s issue but (Onkyo) AVRs are big and expensive, full of bugs and just not well thought out / tested.
Look at this image at 100% zoom. http://www.abload.de/img/chroma-large92ppv.png If the 4:4:4 half on the right looks essentially identical to the 4:2:2 half on the left, you're getting proper 4:4:4. If the right half looks different (it will be a noticeable, not subtle, difference), you're in 4:2:2. I can say with 100% certainty that on my NR3010, the ONLY way I was able to get 4:4:4 was to completely bypass the video processor by using SUB out. None of the typical methods of disabling the video processor worked. Being in 4:2:2 makes some colors (red/orange/magenta especially) blurry because your computer's graphics card is outputting full resolution 4:4:4 but 2 out of the 3 chroma channels are getting compressed somewhere else in the signal pipeline. This is not the place to discuss the basics, here is more info if you'd like to know more: Official 4:4:4 / Chroma Subsampling Thread It only effects PCs (and maybe game consoles) because video content is almost always mastered with 4:2:0 chroma subsampling to save bandwidth. 4:2:2 can display a 4:2:0 signal with no degradation.

Last edited by MyKillK; 10-17-2014 at 12:24 PM.
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post #1124 of 1128 Old 10-17-2014, 05:37 PM
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I could not really tell with that image if I have 4:4:4 or not. The little TV on the SUB output lost the 4:4:4 text on the right side but I think that’s because it’s a cheap 4 bit display. I was able to see a difference using the pixel settings in the AMD video driver. It lets you set it at 4:4:4, 4:2:2 and others. It defaults to 4:4:4 and all looks ok but I noticed the black text in the windows looked a little yellow when set to 4:2:2. The 4:4:4 setting looks way better but I’m unsure if that means I’m really getting 4:4:4 all theway through the AVR and to the TV. Can the Kuro even do 4:4:4?


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post #1125 of 1128 Old 10-17-2014, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Tanquen View Post
I could not really tell with that image if I have 4:4:4 or not. The little TV on the SUB output lost the 4:4:4 text on the right side but I think that’s because it’s a cheap 4 bit display. I was able to see a difference using the pixel settings in the AMD video driver. It lets you set it at 4:4:4, 4:2:2 and others. It defaults to 4:4:4 and all looks ok but I noticed the black text in the windows looked a little yellow when set to 4:2:2. The 4:4:4 setting looks way better but I’m unsure if that means I’m really getting 4:4:4 all theway through the AVR and to the TV. Can the Kuro even do 4:4:4?


If your receiver and TV are capable of displaying 4:4:4, the right half which says 4:4:4 will look identical to the left half. If something is converting to 4:2:2 (could be either the AVR or the TV) it will look noticeably different. You might still be able to read the 4:4:4 but it will look much less defined.
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post #1126 of 1128 Old 10-17-2014, 08:08 PM
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If your receiver and TV are capable of displaying 4:4:4, the right half which says 4:4:4 will look identical to the left half. If something is converting to 4:2:2 (could be either the AVR or the TV) it will look noticeably different. You might still be able to read the 4:4:4 but it will look much less defined.
They look the same on the PC or the TV but much harder to tell on the PC. On the TV I can still see the 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 text but there is more a difference in the two areas behind the text. Too ambiguous, I can’t tell if it’s the right kind of different. Same with some other tests I’ve found online. Maybe plasmas are problematic with these kinds of tests? Not a good test for me anyway. The text I show in the pic jumps out at me. ??? That is not showing the difference between 4:2:2 and 4:4:4?
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post #1127 of 1128 Old 10-18-2014, 02:10 PM
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They look the same on the PC or the TV but much harder to tell on the PC. On the TV I can still see the 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 text but there is more a difference in the two areas behind the text. Too ambiguous, I can’t tell if it’s the right kind of different. Same with some other tests I’ve found online. Maybe plasmas are problematic with these kinds of tests? Not a good test for me anyway. The text I show in the pic jumps out at me. ??? That is not showing the difference between 4:2:2 and 4:4:4?
It's not ambiguous at all. I don't know how I can explain it more simple than I already have. You're spazzing out and making it way too complicated. Either it looks exactly the same (i.e. the same magenta color background with the same purplish colored text) or it doesn't. There's no "right kind of different" and I don't know why you're messing with your AMD settings, testing multiple displays and taking pictures of text. All you had to do was move the TV's HDMI cable from the MAIN out to the SUB out and see if it made a difference. Would have taken 5 minutes and you've dragged this out over 2 days. Yeesh. Take this up in the 4:4:4 thread that I linked and maybe other, more patient, people can help you out. I'll leave you with three hints: DVI->HDMI, SUB out, PC/Game Mode.

Last edited by MyKillK; 10-18-2014 at 03:05 PM.
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post #1128 of 1128 Old 10-18-2014, 07:07 PM
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It's not ambiguous at all. I don't know how I can explain it more simple than I already have. You're spazzing out and making it way too complicated. Either it looks exactly the same (i.e. the same magenta color background with the same purplish colored text) or it doesn't. There's no "right kind of different" and I don't know why you're messing with your AMD settings, testing multiple displays and taking pictures of text. All you had to do was move the TV's HDMI cable from the MAIN out to the SUB out and see if it made a difference. Would have taken 5 minutes and you've dragged this out over 2 days. Yeesh. Take this up in the 4:4:4 thread that I linked and maybe other, more patient, people can help you out. I'll leave you with three hints: DVI->HDMI, SUB out, PC/Game Mode.
"It's not ambiguous at all. I don't know how I can explain it more simple than I already have. You're making it way too complicated."

Wow! You had to edit your post to make it more insulting. I was just trying to understand what the deal was. You’re not too impatient to be an ass I guess.

"If the 4:4:4 half on the right looks essentially identical”
“(it will be a noticeable, not subtle, difference)”
“No more blurriness”
I’m sorry but what is that telling me? I’ve not seen a good and then a bad test image before to compare with. I gave you something I could tell the difference with and you said nothing.

“Either it looks exactly the same (i.e. the same magenta color background with the same purplish colored text) or it doesn't.”
Then none of my displays, including the PLC LCD are 4:4:4 because none show both sides the same. Like I said, there is more a difference in the two areas behind the text on the TV.

“I don't know why you're messing with your AMD settings”
Gee, maybe because like I told you it looks different on the same TV. We are talking about 4:4:4 vs 4:2:2 and there is a setting that changes it at the source so that sounded like a good test. When set to 4:4:4 it looks clear and the text looks black on a white background. When I set it to 4:2:2 I get a yellow hue on the edge of the text. That’s not it? Ok, just say so then.

“All you had to do was move the TV's HDMI cable from the MAIN out to the SUB out and see if it made a difference.”
And if they look the same or I don’t have the AVR settings the same. How about running a cable directly from the PC?

Thanks for the totally unhelpful hint. I’ve got one for you as well: Fight your superior nature and keep your thoughts to yourself. Think I’m dumb and not worth the time then don’t post and don’t come back and edit your post and make it even more insulting.
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