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#1 ·
I just received an email from Emotiva with the information about the XPR-5. So, who is going to buy one of this monsters?








http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/xpr5


SPECIFICATIONS


Topology: Fully discrete, dual differential, high current, short signal path Class A/B amplification with Optimized Class-H™ power supply topology.

Number of Channels: 5

Power Output

(rated power; THD
400 watts / channel (x5); all channels driven; into 8 Ohms.

600 watts / channel (x5); all channels driven; into 4 Ohms.

500 watts / channel (x2); two channels driven; into 8 Ohms.

750 watts / channel (x2); two channels driven; into 4 Ohms.

575 watts / channel (x1); one channel driven; into 8 Ohms.

1100 watts (1 .1 kW) / channel (x1); one channel driven; into 4 Ohms.

Rated Power Bandwidth (at rated power; 8 Ohm load): 20 Hz to 20 kHz + /- 0.01 dB.

Minimum Recommended Load Impedance (each channel): 4 Ohms (which equals one 4 Ohm load or two paralleled 8 Ohm loads per channel).

Frequency Response: 10 Hz to 80 kHz (+ 0 / - 1 dB).

THD + noise:
Signal to Noise Ratio (8 Ohm load):

> 93 dB at 1 watt (A-weighted).

> 109 dB at rated power (A-weighted).

Damping Factor (8 Ohm load): > 500

Speaker Output Connections:

Super heavy duty audiophile speaker binding posts - with clear acrylic insulators and heavy duty gold plated contacts; designed to accept heavy-gauge bare cables, lugs, or banana plugs.

Power Supply:

3.3 kVA toroidal power transformer.

180,000 uF of storage capacitance.

Input sensitivity (for rated power; 8 Ohm load): 1.875 V

Gain: 29 dB

Input Connections:

Unbalanced (Tiffany style, audiophile quality, gold plated RCA); one per channel.

Balanced (XLR); one per channel.

Each input may be independently switched to either unbalanced or balanced.

Input Impedance:

47 kOhms (unbalanced).

22 kOhms (balanced).

Trigger:

Trigger Input: 5 - 20 V (AC or DC);
 
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#153 ·
Hi -- jumping into the middle here --I biamped my Paradigm towers because someone said that isolating the bass drivers from the midrange/tweeters was beneficial.

Why? I don't know. Did biamping affect the sound? Well, yes. Better punch to the bass, wider soundstage. . ., well not wider but more present, better resolved.

Biamping did not affect tone and timber appreciably.


I had the amps, compatible speakers and wires already run from an earlier project. Thought I would try it, liked what I heard and left it.


In contemplating the XPR-5, I don't think I would biamp with that much horsepower, but I might. Be easy enough to try it, and if I don't like it I'll put it back.
 
#154 ·
Bi-amped how? From your AVR, or using an external crossover? If the former, chances are nothing changed but your expectations... Whatever, what matters is you like the sound.
 
#157 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by buggs1a  /t/1418604/emotiva-xpr-5/150#post_23444692


Exactly the same. Emo amps sound the same as any other. They even say this.

Who is they? So you agree with what "they" say in that all amps sound the same?


Bill
 
#159 ·
Just ordered the XPR-5. Should be delivered before the end of the week I hope.


It will be replacing an NHT Power 5. My new great room will be more than twice the size of my current room so I figured I could use twice the power.
Plus the summer sale price was also an incentive to buy right now.


I'm using a Denon 5308 CI with the Audyssey XT32 upgrade as a preamp so hopefully everything will work out fine.
 
#161 ·

Just purchased the XPR-5 . . Very excited.  I am currently running 4 Energy Veritas 6.2s (225watts RMS), a few year old Cambridge Soundworks 5.1 set up (was their top tier system at the time.. they don't sell anything nearly as good now), with an Onkyo TX-NR809 receiver.  I realize the XPR5 might be overkill, but it's more for future-proof.  I plan on buying 2 tekton pendragons before the end of the year.
 
#162 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Friendly Fire  /t/1418604/emotiva-xpr-5/150#post_23203585



In contemplating the XPR-5, I don't think I would biamp with that much horsepower, but I might. Be easy enough to try it, and if I don't like it I'll put it back.

Doesn't matter either way with respect to "horsepower". The speakers essentially receive the same mount of power biamped* or not. In other words, the speaker basically still gets only 100W (for example) whether you feed it with one 100W amp or two 100W amps in this manner..


*Biamped in this regard assumed to mean feeding full range signals to the amps and going through the speaker's internal crossover.
 
#163 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0ckymofo  /t/1418604/emotiva-xpr-5/150#post_23893259


Just purchased the XPR-5 . . Very excited.  I am currently running 4 Energy Veritas 6.2s (225watts RMS), a few year old Cambridge Soundworks 5.1 set up (was their top tier system at the time.. they don't sell anything nearly as good now), with an Onkyo TX-NR809 receiver.  I realize the XPR5 might be overkill, but it's more for future-proof.  I plan on buying 2 tekton pendragons before the end of the year.

even more overkill with the pendragons....
 
#164 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by airgas1998  /t/1418604/emotiva-xpr-5/150#post_23893747



even more overkill with the pendragons....
Would it be more recommended to get the XPA-5 for my current set up? ..  I thought it was a good idea to have more, than less?
 
#165 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0ckymofo  /t/1418604/emotiva-xpr-5/100_100#post_23896287


Would it be more recommended to get the XPA-5 for my current set up? ..  I thought it was a good idea to have more, than less?

The Tekton Pendragons are claimed to be 98dBs sensitive. That means it takes 1W to reach 98dBs at 1m. For every 3dBs increase in volume requires double the power. Reference is 105dBs peaks so it will take 8W to drive those speakers to above reference levels at 1m. For every doubling of distance from 1m you lose 3dBs so at 2m you will need 16W to reach reference levels. If you have a sub and are crossing the lower frequencies over to the subs then you'll probably need less than half of that amount. Is the Marantz not able to provide 16W/channel?


I have a pair of Revel Salon2s. It's sensitivity rating is only 86dBs. I sit ~9' from the speakers. I measured (not calculated) the power draw to be ~90W peak playing at reference with bass heavy music and running my speaker full range. These speakers are good to 18Hz in my room so you can see the extension I'm getting. Low frequencies is where all the power goes. Other than the deep bass strikes, I'm only pulling about 30W. This puts me very close to the calculated power requirements for my speaker at my distance from them. Keep in mind, this is at reference and running them full range. I'm sure you'll be fine without an external amp. I run one because I have more speaker channels than my Denon 4311 has amp channels.


I'm just letting you know the numbers. You are more than free to buy the XPA-5 or XPR, but don't expect some kind of epiphany in sound improvement. You probably won't hear a difference between the external amp and your Marantz.
 
#166 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135  /t/1418604/emotiva-xpr-5/150#post_23896422



The Tekton Pendragons are claimed to be 98dBs sensitive. That means it takes 1W to reach 98dBs at 1m. For every 3dBs increase in volume requires double the power. Reference is 105dBs peaks so it will take 8W to drive those speakers to above reference levels at 1m. For every doubling of distance from 1m you lose 3dBs so at 2m you will need 16W to reach reference levels. If you have a sub and are crossing the lower frequencies over to the subs then you'll probably need less than half of that amount. Is the Marantz not able to provide 16W/channel?


I have a pair of Revel Salon2s. It's sensitivity rating is only 86dBs. I sit ~9' from the speakers. I measured (not calculated) the power draw to be ~90W peak playing at reference with bass heavy music and running my speaker full range. These speakers are good to 18Hz in my room so you can see the extension I'm getting. Low frequencies is where all the power goes. Other than the deep bass strikes, I'm only pulling about 30W. This puts me very close to the calculated power requirements for my speaker at my distance from them. Keep in mind, this is at reference and running them full range. I'm sure you'll be fine without an external amp. I run one because I have more speaker channels than my Denon 4311 has amp channels.


I'm just letting you know the numbers. You are more than free to buy the XPA-5 or XPR, but don't expect some kind of epiphany in sound improvement. You probably won't hear a difference between the external amp and your Marantz.
Hmm..  I was mostly hoping to be able to increase the volume of the sound significantly..  This should do it, no?
 
#167 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135  /t/1418604/emotiva-xpr-5/150#post_23896422


The Tekton Pendragons are claimed to be 98dBs sensitive. That means it takes 1W to reach 98dBs at 1m. For every 3dBs increase in volume requires double the power. Reference is 105dBs peaks so it will take 8W to drive those speakers to above reference levels at 1m. For every doubling of distance from 1m you lose 3dBs so at 2m you will need 16W to reach reference levels. If you have a sub and are crossing the lower frequencies over to the subs then you'll probably need less than half of that amount. Is the Marantz not able to provide 16W/channel?


I have a pair of Revel Salon2s. It's sensitivity rating is only 86dBs. I sit ~9' from the speakers. I measured (not calculated) the power draw to be ~90W peak playing at reference with bass heavy music and running my speaker full range. These speakers are good to 18Hz in my room so you can see the extension I'm getting. Low frequencies is where all the power goes. Other than the deep bass strikes, I'm only pulling about 30W. This puts me very close to the calculated power requirements for my speaker at my distance from them. Keep in mind, this is at reference and running them full range. I'm sure you'll be fine without an external amp. I run one because I have more speaker channels than my Denon 4311 has amp channels.


I'm just letting you know the numbers. You are more than free to buy the XPA-5 or XPR, but don't expect some kind of epiphany in sound improvement. You probably won't hear a difference between the external amp and your Marantz.

That is interesting. I have Salons and a Parasound A21 amp.

When I play 2 channel music loud, the heat sinks get too hot to keep your hands on them so I am certain, that is more than 30 watts for me.


- Rich
 
#168 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0ckymofo  /t/1418604/emotiva-xpr-5/100_100#post_23896454


Hmm..  I was mostly hoping to be able to increase the volume of the sound significantly..  This should do it, no?

Not unless you are VERY far away from your speakers. Like I said, 16W will get you to reference levels at 2m on the Tekton Pendragons assuming you are running them full range. Less than half of that if you are running them small and crossing over to a sub. Have you ever played music at reference? It's pretty darn loud. I haven't looked at the ratings on the Marantz, but assuming at least 64W/Ch, you will be at 113dBs @2m running the speakers full range. Unless you're trying to achieve rock concert levels, I would think 113dBs is plenty loud for most people.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB  /t/1418604/emotiva-xpr-5/100_100#post_23896553


That is interesting. I have Salons and a Parasound A21 amp.

When I play 2 channel music loud, the heat sinks get too hot to keep your hands on them so I am certain, that is more than 30 watts for me.


- Rich

My meter hovered around ~4V - 5V for the most part when I measured at the speakers posts. During the heavy bass hits, it would spike to ~14V - 15V. The speaker measured 6ohms with nothing connected so that gives me a 30W with 90W peak power draw. My XPR-5 never gets any warmer that normal operating temperatures IIRC. I'll measure the temperatures again and report back. I'm guessing your Parasound A21 gets hot because it's a class A/AB amp which is not very efficient. Most of the power is dissipated as heat.
 
#169 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135  /t/1418604/emotiva-xpr-5/150#post_23896764


My meter hovered around ~4V - 5V for the most part when I measured at the speakers posts. During the heavy bass hits, it would spike to ~14V - 15V. The speaker measured 6ohms with nothing connected so that gives me a 30W with 90W peak power draw. My XPR-5 never gets any warmer that normal operating temperatures IIRC. I'll measure the temperatures again and report back. I'm guessing your Parasound A21 gets hot because it's a class A/AB amp which is not very efficient. Most of the power is dissipated as heat.

So you know how long the voltage change must be in order for your meter to catch it?


The A51 idles at 150 watts but it has very large heat sinks so it is only warm to the touch.

Once you get it cranking will run like any other A/B amp.


I had an ATI3000 and I got the internal heat sinks to over 130 degrees measured with my infrared thermometer.


For the record here is a quote from the Stereophile review of the Salon 2's :
Quote:
drops to between 3 and 5 ohms between 17Hz and 600Hz

So when your bass is cranking you might be off by 2X.


- Rich
 
#170 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB  /t/1418604/emotiva-xpr-5/100_100#post_23896993


So you know how long the voltage change must be in order for your meter to catch it?


The A51 idles at 150 watts but it has very large heat sinks so it is only warm to the touch.

Once you get it cranking will run like any other A/B amp.


I had an ATI3000 and I got the internal heat sinks to over 130 degrees measured with my infrared thermometer.


For the record here is a quote from the Stereophile review of the Salon 2's :

So when your bass is cranking you might be off by 2X.


- Rich

Forgive me for butchering the math. I forgot to calculate amperage from the voltage and resistance before deriving wattage. So my numbers are actually lower. At reference my speakers are only drawing ~4W with peaks of ~45W during the bass hits. Assuming your 2X numbers, that still puts me at 90W. I''l provide the numbers so you can correct my math if I'm wrong again.


5V on average measured at the speaker posts.

15V during bass hits

6ohm nominal resistance.

3-5ohm at 17Hz - 200Hz.


>200Hz

5V/6ohm = 0.83A

0.83A * 5V = 4.2W


17Hz - 200Hz

15V/3ohm = 5A

5A*15V = 75W


15V/5ohm = 3A

3A*15V = 45W


So at reference, assuming your 2x number I'm using 8.4W above 200Hz and 90W - 150W below that. Still not that much power to drive a relatively inefficient speaker, full range to reference levels with usable output down to 18Hz in room. Will that choke a receiver? Possibly. Not that many people will run something like the Salon2 full range at reference under normal conditions is my guess. Just by dropping the volume down to -3dB would put the power requirements well within the range of most receivers.


As for the temperature of my XPR-5, at idle after being on for 30 minutes, the heatsinks were reading 82 degrees. after 45 minutes running at reference the temperature was 101 degrees as measured by my infrared temperature sensor. I only have about 3" of space above the amp. The room is 70 degrees as measured by my thermostat.
 
#171 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0ckymofo  /t/1418604/emotiva-xpr-5/150#post_23896454


Hmm..  I was mostly hoping to be able to increase the volume of the sound significantly..  This should do it, no?

How much power do you have now?


How much power is the amp you're considering?
 
#172 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135  /t/1418604/emotiva-xpr-5/150#post_23897159


Forgive me for butchering the math. I forgot to calculate amperage from the voltage and resistance before deriving wattage. So my numbers are actually lower. At reference my speakers are only drawing ~4W with peaks of ~45W during the bass hits. Assuming your 2X numbers, that still puts me at 90W. I''l provide the numbers so you can correct my math if I'm wrong again.


5V on average measured at the speaker posts.

15V during bass hits

6ohm nominal resistance.

3-5ohm at 17Hz - 200Hz.


>200Hz

5V/6ohm = 0.83A

0.83A * 5V = 4.2W


17Hz - 200Hz

15V/3ohm = 5A

5A*15V = 75W


15V/5ohm = 3A

3A*15V = 45W


So at reference, assuming your 2x number I'm using 8.4W above 200Hz and 90W - 150W below that. Still not that much power to drive a relatively inefficient speaker, full range to reference levels with usable output down to 18Hz in room. Will that choke a receiver? Possibly. Not that many people will run something like the Salon2 full range at reference under normal conditions is my guess. Just by dropping the volume down to -3dB would put the power requirements well within the range of most receivers.


As for the temperature of my XPR-5, at idle after being on for 30 minutes, the heatsinks were reading 82 degrees. after 45 minutes running at reference the temperature was 101 degrees as measured by my infrared temperature sensor. I only have about 3" of space above the amp. The room is 70 degrees as measured by my thermostat.

It does not appear that you drive your speakers very hard for your room.

What is reference volume in DB?


A grand piano can produce 106DB.the revels are essentially 4 ohm, so in my room that would be 2 watts, to hit 106DB requires 20X power.

This is about 200 watts.


The ATI3000 which is 300 WPC amp, 450 WPC into 4 ohms.

This amps is considerably over built. It can actually deliver over 600 WPC into 4 ohms.

It is very clean, I was able to illuminate the clip indicators playing Sarah Maclachlan.

This is a fully balanced and reasonable efficient amp.


I think we may have very different definitions of reference volume.


- Rich
 
#173 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB  /t/1418604/emotiva-xpr-5/100_100#post_23897952


It does not appear that you drive your speakers very hard for your room.

What is reference volume in DB?


A grand piano can produce 106DB.the revels are essentially 4 ohm, so in my room that would be 2 watts, to hit 106DB requires 20X power.

This is about 200 watts.


The ATI3000 which is 300 WPC amp, 450 WPC into 4 ohms.

This amps is considerably over built. It can actually deliver over 600 WPC into 4 ohms.

It is very clean, I was able to illuminate the clip indicators playing Sarah Maclachlan.

This is a fully balanced and reasonable efficient amp.


I think we may have very different definitions of reference volume.


- Rich

I push my Salon2 to levels that are comfortable and sound good to me. I don't bother measuring SPL so I don't know what level it is precisely. All I know is that I can listen all day with no fatigue. The MV is usually between -8 and +3 depending on recording level of the music. For movies, I usually have the MV between -10 and -5.


Reference to me is the THX standard which most receivers with calibration will be set to; 85dBs/CH with 20dBs of headroom (30dBs headroom for the LFE channels). This is what the vast majority of people refer to when the use the term reference.


I think your math is a bit off. I'm not sure what you mean by "...the revels are essentially 4 ohm, so in my room that would be 2 watts..." Resistance has nothing to do with power required to achieve a specific SPL. Sensitivity and distance determine power requirements for a given SPL. A 1ohm speaker with sensitivity of 86dBs @1W/1m will need 1W to achieve 86dBs at 1m. The same is true for a 32ohm speaker thas 86dBS @1W/1m. Also, 20x the power of 2W is 40W, not 200W. 200W is 100x the power of 2W. That's just me picking nits. Anyhow, your 200W is not much more than my 150W. That would equate to about a 1dB difference in SPL between you and me.


If you are clipping your 600W amplifier when requiring only 200W then there is something wrong. I would double check your gain structure. You may be overdriving the amplifier input with too hot a signal from your receiver. I too listen to Sarah Mclachlan as well as other music quite loud, but have never clipped my amps.
 
#174 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by duc135  /t/1418604/emotiva-xpr-5/150#post_23898198


I push my Salon2 to levels that are comfortable and sound good to me. I don't bother measuring SPL so I don't know what level it is precisely. All I know is that I can listen all day with no fatigue. The MV is usually between -8 and +3 depending on recording level of the music. For movies, I usually have the MV between -10 and -5.


Reference to me is the THX standard which most receivers with calibration will be set to; 85dBs/CH with 20dBs of headroom (30dBs headroom for the LFE channels). This is what the vast majority of people refer to when the use the term reference.


I think your math is a bit off. I'm not sure what you mean by "...the revels are essentially 4 ohm, so in my room that would be 2 watts..." Resistance has nothing to do with power required to achieve a specific SPL. Sensitivity and distance determine power requirements for a given SPL. A 1ohm speaker with sensitivity of 86dBs @1W/1m will need 1W to achieve 86dBs at 1m. The same is true for a 32ohm speaker thas 86dBS @1W/1m. Also, 20x the power of 2W is 40W, not 200W. 200W is 100x the power of 2W. That's just me picking nits. Anyhow, your 200W is not much more than my 150W. That would equate to about a 1dB difference in SPL between you and me.


If you are clipping your 600W amplifier when requiring only 200W then there is something wrong. I would double check your gain structure. You may be overdriving the amplifier input with too hot a signal from your receiver. I too listen to Sarah Mclachlan as well as other music quite loud, but have never clipped my amps.

There is nothing wrong with the gain structure and your XPR-5 is a very capable amp so you are likely not clipping your amp to the point of audibility. You cannot measure the voltage at your speakers to determine if you amp is clipping.


The ATI 3000 has clipping indicators, something I wish more amps had. So from your computer having used a voltage meter you are able to determine how much power my amp is delivering in my room.



Most people think of clipping as harsh sound coming from their speakers. Long before that, a clipping amp will simply not provide the required power, compressing the sound. Of course, you cannot hear sound that is not produced, nor can you measure it with your voltage meter.


A more extreme case, would be to take a 25 watt receiver and turn up the volume. You will not measure be able to determine the power required from the power delivered at the speaker.


I actually agree, that not everyone needs a powerful amp, but it is a really good idea for folks running Revel Salon's of any generation at -3 or 0 with a t 29DB gain amp.


- Rich
 
#175 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB  /t/1418604/emotiva-xpr-5/100_100#post_23899170


There is nothing wrong with the gain structure and your XPR-5 is a very capable amp so you are likely not clipping your amp to the point of audibility. You cannot measure the voltage at your speakers to determine if you amp is clipping.

- Rich

I never claimed that measuring voltage indicated anything other than what my speakers were drawing while playing at reference. Read my posts again. I never even used the word clipping. Please do not read into my posts any inferences as all I stated was the power draw of my speakers in my room at reference. Nothing more, nothing less.


I was providing the OP the numbers so that he can make in informed decision. If my inefficient (86dBs) speaker only needs 150W to achieve reference, he may not notice a difference from his 100+W receiver and an external amp using efficient (98dBs) speakers. I was stating that my measured results are nearly spot on with the calculated power requirements. If this is the case, then he would only need 16W to surpass reference level SPL at 2m. Do you think he would be best served by spending close to $2K to supply his speaker with 16W when even an entry level receiver can do that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB  /t/1418604/emotiva-xpr-5/100_100#post_23899170


The ATI 3000 has clipping indicators, something I wish more amps had. So from your computer having used a voltage meter you are able to determine how much power my amp is delivering in my room.


- Rich

I was actually able to determine how much power your amp was delivering by reading your post.



See below. You stated to hit 106dBs in your room it took 200W.


Again, if your 600W amp is clipping delivering 200W then there is something wrong with your setup. Those are the numbers you are providing, not me.


Can you explain what you mean by "...the revels are essentially 4 ohm, so in my room that would be 2 watts..." please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB  /t/1418604/emotiva-xpr-5/100_100#post_23897952


A grand piano can produce 106DB.the revels are essentially 4 ohm, so in my room that would be 2 watts, to hit 106DB requires 20X power.

This is about 200 watts.


The ATI3000 which is 300 WPC amp, 450 WPC into 4 ohms.

This amps is considerably over built. It can actually deliver over 600 WPC into 4 ohms.

It is very clean, I was able to illuminate the clip indicators playing Sarah Maclachlan.

This is a fully balanced and reasonable efficient amp.


I think we may have very different definitions of reference volume.


- Rich
 
#176 ·
Revel Salon specs (from the Owner's Manual) say the speakers are 6 ohms nominal impedance and 86dB@ 2.83V @ 1m.


Since the sensitivity is rated in volts rather than watts, you have to consider the impedance when comparing sensitivity to other speakers.


For example, 2.83V @ 8 ohms is ~1 watt, 2.83V @ 6 ohms is ~1.33 watt,. 2.83V @ 4 ohms is ~2 watts.


So, if one speaker is 8 ohms with 86dB @ 2.83V sensitivity and another speaker is 4 ohms with 86dB @ 2.83V sensitivity, the net sensitivity of the 4 ohm speaker is actually only 83dB if you rate them in terms of dB per (1) watt. Since the Revel Salons are nominally 6 ohms, relative to 1 watt of power their sensitivity is roughly 84.8dB.


Rather than the individual specifics, the key point is understanding that speakers can be rated differently in terms of sensitivity.


If the ratings are all in dB/W/m then you can compare them pretty straight up. If the ratings are dB/2.83V/m then you have to factor in the speaker impedance to arrive apples-to-apples sensitivity ratings.
 
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