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post #211 of 226 Old 01-30-2014, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by grasshoppers View Post

Any reasons in particular why you went with the XPR versus the XPA
For running your inwallls? The XPR is 400 watts per channel and the
XPA is 200 watts per channel,but your inwallls are rated at 150wpc?

Well I cant speak for Randy. But I find its always better to go with more power than less power, to secure you for future upgrades. Many enthusiast upgrade their speakers more often than their components unless they become faulty.
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post #212 of 226 Old 01-30-2014, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by emofan21 View Post

Well I cant speak for Randy. But I find its always better to go with more power than less power, to secure you for future upgrades. Many enthusiast upgrade their speakers more often than their components unless they become faulty.
I agree with the poster that I quoted. I figured the more power the better. Emotiva told me since my speakers are so efficient that I am not using the amp to it's fullest and not driving it very hard. I guess my amp should last a long time....biggrin.gif
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Denon AVR 4520ci
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post #213 of 226 Old 01-30-2014, 07:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jevans64 View Post

I went with the XPR-5 instead of the XPA Gen 1 because of the greater power-handling and better specs. in general, like higher capacitance and a bigger transformer as related to power output. I also got a GREAT deal on the XPR-5 and only had rack space for ONE amp. The 5 speakers connected to my XPR-5 can handle in excess of 450 watts RMS each. I did audition the XPA-5 with my gear before settling on the XPR. Normal volume levels between the two were fine but something was missing when I cranked the XPA-5 to 11. I'm betting that the noise floor is very similar between the two now since the XPA Gen 2 has the same gain as the XPR.

That's fine,I can understand why you got the XPR ...you have
Speakers that can handle that amp....or is it vice versa?
Just not following the 150 watt inwallls logic.

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post #214 of 226 Old 01-30-2014, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by emofan21 View Post

Well I cant speak for Randy. But I find its always better to go with more power than less power, to secure you for future upgrades. Many enthusiast upgrade their speakers more often than their components unless they become faulty.

Understood....but he has some great inwallls,probably not gonna get upgraded
As often as you or I might. I'm not very familiar with inwallls, do they make units that
Can handle 400 watts of amplification?

The question I posed for Randy was why he picked the XPR over the XPA.
Both easily exceed the recommended continuous power for his inwallls.
And I would think that the current reserves of the XPA could even handle the
Instantaneous peaks that might be delivered to the speakers short term.

What am I missing here??

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post #215 of 226 Old 01-30-2014, 08:59 PM
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IM sorry duc135 where are you getting your information about there being No difference in SQ?

Well, you don't have to believe me. That's the great thing about having free will. Judging by your name you're either a fan of Emotiva or the stereotypes of people who dress in tight jeans and get "emotional" about everything. I'm guessing the former. If that's the case, you may want to search this forum. Someone here posted a response from one of the Emotiva engineers who stated that all properly designed amps sound the same. An amplifiers job is to amplify the signal. Nothing more, nothing less. Look at the frequency response of the Emotiva amps that they publish. The graphs on them are pretty much ruler flat. How does that equate to better sound if all amps provide the same response? The only difference between amps that might make audible differences would be THD and SNR. Again, all properly designed amps have those specs well below human hearing threshold.

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Amps of today is not the amps of yesteryear...They have chips and processors in them that makes them capable of doing more than just amplifying sound. Everything inside a particular amp contributes to the sound quality.

As I said above, an amplifier's job is to amplify the incoming signal unmolested. Nothing more, nothing less. If it has a processor that does "more than just amplifying the sound" as you say, it is no longer just an amplifier. It is now a signal processor. I am talking about amplifiers not signal processors. All properly designed amplifiers will sound the same when not driven to clipping.

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And just because 1s hearing is not as good to discern the differences doesn't mean that nobody else is. I 4 one have very good hearing. I have never listen to any music through a pair of headphones. Which science has proven does causes hear loss overtime. I have been an Audio "Aficionado" for over 20 yrs and even car amps differ in sound from 1 another.

Sorry, I don't have golden ears like you so I'll be the first to admit that can't tell the difference between a 0.01dB in frequency deviation that Emotiva claims in their specs. That's probably why I don't pay $1000/ft for speaker wire either. The benefits are lost on these unrefined ears of mine. Also, I've only been an "Audio Aficionado" for the last three years or so. I don't have the experience you have in being able to hear things so you've got me beat there too. Same for car amps. I can't tell the difference between all the amps that have gone through my car either so I suppose I should dump my systems and start over with all Zapco amps that would cost me more than my car is worth.

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Originally Posted by emofan21 View Post

I have never listen to any music through a pair of headphones. Which science has proven does causes hear loss overtime.

That settles it, I'd better sell my Beyer and HiFiMAN headphones too since my ears now know that sound coming from headphones are different from sounds coming from other sources and will cause hearing loss. Now I need to figure out how two strap my speakers to my ears to avoid hearing loss from headphones.

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Originally Posted by emofan21 View Post

So I say Csan..audition for yourself trust your OWN ears not any1 else's or any1 else mouth for that reason. Spent your money how you see best for you. Your the one that's going to live with it. and better to do it once and be done. All the best to you!! wink.gif

Something we can agree on.
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post #216 of 226 Old 01-30-2014, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by emofan21 View Post

and I see not very well educated.

You are correct, I am uneducated. I am technically a high school dropout. At least I know the difference between your and you're and hi and high. wink.gif

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Originally Posted by emofan21 View Post

You said an Emotiva engineer said that all amps at a certain frequency will sound the same...hmmm so NO amps have different noise floors?? ...So the capacitance and toroidal power supplies as well as different class topology has no effect on how clean and or powerful the "amplified" sound would be.

No, capacitance and toroidal power supplies do not influence sound so long as they are not being driven to produce more power than they are rated for. No, amp class topology won't decide how clean and powerful the amplified signal is. They will dictate how efficiently the device will amplify the signal. How clean the output signal is is based on the amplifier design. How powerful the signal is is based on how much current and voltage the amplifier can produce. We're talking about properly designed amps here. So no, the noise floor will not be audible unless you like to listen to your equipment at full volume on super sensitive speakers with nothing playing. I for one, do not listen to my system that way. I like to actually play music through them. Like I said previously. You don't have to believe me. I'm just some uneducated person on the internet. Search this forum for the post I mentioned. It's here somewhere.

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Originally Posted by emofan21 View Post

And whether you want 2 be in denial about hearing music through headphones being damaging doesn't mean it doesn't exist.... Sound needs AIR to travel properly an effectively.

I'm not in denial of headphones causing hearing damage. I question that it's solely because they come from headphones. I'm pretty sure it's more due to the fact that people listen to headphones at volumes that are damaging and not because the are coming from headphones. I'm sure going to rock concerts would cause far more hearing damage than listening to headphones at 60dB for the same time period. BTW, sound does not need air to be able to travel properly or effectively. Sound actually propagates faster and farther in water.

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Originally Posted by emofan21 View Post

You wouldn't put your ear to the bell of a saxophone as its being played right?...or your head up inside a piano while the ivories are being tickled. Well its the same thing. when you blasting hi decibels' inside your ear.

No, I wouldn't because that would be unpleasant. That is neither here nor there since that is not what you originally said. You said (and I quote) "I have never listen to any music through a pair of headphones. Which science has proven does causes hear loss overtime." You are stating listening to music through headphones cause hearing damage. You made no mention of "blasting hi decibels".

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Originally Posted by emofan21 View Post

And I tell you what..i do have $1000+ speaker cables and love them.

Glad you love them. I'm sure the company you bought them from also love them for all the easy money they bring in. What I do love is how you like to preach science and going to take a class in science yet dismiss the very same science that proves speaker cables make no difference in SQ once they are of sufficient size to deliver the required current.

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Originally Posted by emofan21 View Post

How about you develop a cable and we compare..and see whose sound better or if there is any different...ready set-go..smdh tongue.gif

Sorry, too uneducated to develop a cable on my own. It's far easier and cost effective for me to order a bulk spool of 10AWG pure copper wire when they go on sale. It's also due to my poor education that I have absolutely no idea what "smdh" means. I do notice that you do seem to like closing your statements with that though.
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post #217 of 226 Old 01-30-2014, 10:35 PM
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Ok, I apologize to everyone on this thread and especially emofan21. I did reply and attack him or her and it was uncalled for. I blame it on this flu and the heavy meds I'm on for my short temper. I can barely keep my eyes open any more. If emofan21 wants me too, I'll delete my posts or edit it tomorrow once I'm more clear headed. The content, for the most part, I stand behind. The sarcasm, personal attacks and delivery was unwarrranted though. Again my apologies to all.
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post #218 of 226 Old 03-18-2014, 08:32 AM
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Can I use the Furman ADP-1520B Power Adapter with the XPR-5?

Here is a link on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Furman-ADP-1520B-Power-Adapter-Black/dp/B0063R8OPC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1395021252&sr=8-1&keywords=Furman+ADP-1520B


My theater room got a 15 amp wall outlet. Having someone come to my house and install a 20 amp in the theater room is NOT happening. They would have to rip my house apart redo all the wiring in the house. My wife would not take that very well and the cost as well.

On Amazon, there is a reviewer By Flytheater . The person seems to be very happy with the Furman ADP-1520B. Below are Flytheater's comments:

"My Emotiva XPR5 Amplifier requires a 20Amp circuit/wall plug. This is a great adapter to convert amplifier's cable to a 15Amp wall plug. I recommend this item for those who don't have a dedicated 20AMP plug for high power audio gear."
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post #219 of 226 Old 07-01-2015, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post
Can I use the Furman ADP-1520B Power Adapter with the XPR-5?

Here is a link on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Furman-ADP-1520B-Power-Adapter-Black/dp/B0063R8OPC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1395021252&sr=8-1&keywords=Furman+ADP-1520B


My theater room got a 15 amp wall outlet. Having someone come to my house and install a 20 amp in the theater room is NOT happening. They would have to rip my house apart redo all the wiring in the house. My wife would not take that very well and the cost as well.

On Amazon, there is a reviewer By Flytheater . The person seems to be very happy with the Furman ADP-1520B. Below are Flytheater's comments:

"My Emotiva XPR5 Amplifier requires a 20Amp circuit/wall plug. This is a great adapter to convert amplifier's cable to a 15Amp wall plug. I recommend this item for those who don't have a dedicated 20AMP plug for high power audio gear."
I use a different adapter for my XPR-2 ($20 for the adpter). I know that XPR-5 has more total power (3.3 kVA vs 2.5kVA) and you may still have to add a dedicated 20Amp circuit. But I can tell you with the lower power requirements for the surround channels and even L/R your XPR-5 will be operating at 20% capacity in a pure HT setup, unless you will be listening to strictly stereo music at ungodly volumes and SPL. Since you have an XPR-5 not XPR-2 I assume it is an HT you are building. I bet as long as you can use a dedicated 15Amp circuit the adaptor will be fine, you dont need a 20Amp circuit, although it would be best if you had it installed.
As a matter of fact that is how I will set it up as soon as I buy XPR-5 for my 11.2 setup (already have an XPA-5 Gen 2 and XPR-2). I will run them both with adapters and dedicated 15Amp circuits. No 20Amp circuits (I actually got a quote, around $1,200 to install them!).

My Gear
DAC: Peachtree DAC*ITX || BD Player: Pioneer Elite BDP-41FD || Processor: Marantz AV8801 11.2 Ch || Power Amps: Emotiva XPR-2 (600W), Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2 & UPA-500 (200W/80W) || L/R Speakers: Polk LSiM-705 , Magnepan 2.7, Center : Polk LSiM-704C, Sur: Polk LSiM703 || Sub 1: Sunfire HRS-10 (1,000W). Sub 2: Sunfire True Signature TS-EQ12 (2,700W) ||

Last edited by grigorianvlad; 07-02-2015 at 06:34 AM. Reason: Grammar
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post #220 of 226 Old 07-01-2015, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mantaraydesign View Post
Can I use the Furman ADP-1520B Power Adapter with the XPR-5?

Here is a link on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Furman-ADP-1520B-Power-Adapter-Black/dp/B0063R8OPC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1395021252&sr=8-1&keywords=Furman+ADP-1520B


My theater room got a 15 amp wall outlet. Having someone come to my house and install a 20 amp in the theater room is NOT happening. They would have to rip my house apart redo all the wiring in the house. My wife would not take that very well and the cost as well.

On Amazon, there is a reviewer By Flytheater . The person seems to be very happy with the Furman ADP-1520B. Below are Flytheater's comments:

"My Emotiva XPR5 Amplifier requires a 20Amp circuit/wall plug. This is a great adapter to convert amplifier's cable to a 15Amp wall plug. I recommend this item for those who don't have a dedicated 20AMP plug for high power audio gear."
Also, I'd like to caution you if I may against using any power conditioners with the XPR line up, even if they are 20Amp capable. That suggestion comes from Emotiva. Besides, there are some horror stories of the XPRs zapping if connected to a power conditioner and not directly to a dedicated circuit (check out the reviews on Amazon). I hope this helps

My Gear
DAC: Peachtree DAC*ITX || BD Player: Pioneer Elite BDP-41FD || Processor: Marantz AV8801 11.2 Ch || Power Amps: Emotiva XPR-2 (600W), Emotiva XPA-5 Gen 2 & UPA-500 (200W/80W) || L/R Speakers: Polk LSiM-705 , Magnepan 2.7, Center : Polk LSiM-704C, Sur: Polk LSiM703 || Sub 1: Sunfire HRS-10 (1,000W). Sub 2: Sunfire True Signature TS-EQ12 (2,700W) ||
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post #221 of 226 Unread Yesterday, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by duc135 View Post
Ok, I apologize to everyone on this thread and especially emofan21. I did reply and attack him or her and it was uncalled for. I blame it on this flu and the heavy meds I'm on for my short temper. I can barely keep my eyes open any more. If emofan21 wants me too, I'll delete my posts or edit it tomorrow once I'm more clear headed. The content, for the most part, I stand behind. The sarcasm, personal attacks and delivery was unwarrranted though. Again my apologies to all.
It should be noted that your main "Caveat", is really the drop in the bucket in your whole argument. That being, "subject to proper design". The fact is all amplifiers are not necessarily designed properly and hence you can get amplifiers which in fact can be distinguished from others. Poor design leads to poor reproduction of the audio signal.

Class D amplifiers, as well as amplifiers with SMPS power supplies are known to be outperformed, by properly designed old school amplifiers, especially in the very low end of the audio spectrum, where class D and Smps, pretty much stop well before 20hz. Very much the reason why many professional outdoor gigs, sporting their new SMPS racks, still opt to carry 4 or so, Crown Macro tech 5000vz in the bottom of the racks. Proper low end still requires a power supply that does not sag after 500 watts such as most SMPS units.

The other factors of Signal to noise and the distortion aspects of the amplifier you note, but then say you are willing to put up with low signal to noise and THD, because you only hear it, when your speakers are not playing anything. Much like the dreaded fan noise people do not like to hear, yet most find it very annoying when quiet passages come in certain types of music. The signal to noise and THD aspects of amplifiers really come to light here.

As far as my equipment is concerned, I have had people hear my audiophile setup, and completely freak out saying they can't believe how good that stereo sounds. I never had anyone say that to me, when I was running my baycrest reciever as a child of 14. Now, either all these people never heard a stereo before, or they are just imagining how good their hearing has become, if their really was no difference till the music stopped.

A Good amplifier requires a adequate power supply, It does not matter what the amplifier is capable of if the power supply will not provide the power required. Most amplifiers have under rated power supplies. It is up to you to make sure you get the ones that are
least under rated if at all.
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As far as my equipment is concerned, I have had people hear my audiophile setup, and completely freak out saying they can't believe how good that stereo sounds. I never had anyone say that to me, when I was running my baycrest reciever as a child of 14. Now, either all these people never heard a stereo before, or they are just imagining how good their hearing has become, if their really was no difference till the music stopped.
Are you still using the same speakers that you had when you were 14? If not the comparison is of no value.
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post #223 of 226 Unread Yesterday, 08:41 AM
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Oh goodie, let's all restart a year-old argument...

If you don't use a 20 A service you can't supply full power to the XPR-5 and it will not deliver full output steady-state. In the real world it probably does not matter, but also note that in that case you probably don't need an XPR-5 anyway...

Some adapters are cheaper than others. Feel them now and then to ensure they are not getting hot. If they are, you may need to clean the contacts, replace the adapter, and/or replace the outlet to make good contact. It is not code, but if it were my place and I could not afford to run a 20 A service, I'd probably swap the outlets for 20-A versions with a label saying "15-A Circuit" or some such. That gets rid of the adapters and you can still plug normal 15 A plugs into it. A 20-A outlet usually runs more than a 15-A because they are not as common, but they are about $5 instead of $2 for run-of-the-mill Leviton or whatever. Not a huge cost.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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Are you still using the same speakers that you had when you were 14? If not the comparison is of no value.
The only comparison i made is the comments i got from others. I would not waste my time trying to argue that a pyle pro amplifier and no name speakers are going to keep up. Your point is valid that speakers would have an impact on the overall sound, and so would every single other component in the audio chain.

If your happy with your 400.00 Walmart stereo, there is nothing wrong with that, but to run around saying there is no difference between that and high end stuff is a complete joke. The big caveat, everyone forgets when they start saying, every amplifier sounds the same, is true only if the amplifier is properly designed.
As usual on AVS it is always easy to post one liners saying nothing. I can understand this, seeing as with some posting thousands of comments, that there is only time for one line.

A lot of amplifiers these days are made with poor design and shortcuts. A lot of experimentation going on still, as manufactures try to continue to drive down cost and weight, and discontinue our old school boat anchors. Most of the really cheap amplifiers show distortion rates near to 1 percent, and Signal to noise of 85 db. Consumers are used as guinea pigs, for all this stuff these days, which is why most stuff only comes with one year warranty now, unless you buy quality. These days there is so much cheap crap out there, it is not even funny anymore.

A Good amplifier requires a adequate power supply, It does not matter what the amplifier is capable of if the power supply will not provide the power required. Most amplifiers have under rated power supplies. It is up to you to make sure you get the ones that are
least under rated if at all.

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Oh goodie, let's all restart a year-old argument...

If you don't use a 20 A service you can't supply full power to the XPR-5 and it will not deliver full output steady-state. In the real world it probably does not matter, but also note that in that case you probably don't need an XPR-5 anyway...

Some adapters are cheaper than others. Feel them now and then to ensure they are not getting hot. If they are, you may need to clean the contacts, replace the adapter, and/or replace the outlet to make good contact. It is not code, but if it were my place and I could not afford to run a 20 A service, I'd probably swap the outlets for 20-A versions with a label saying "15-A Circuit" or some such. That gets rid of the adapters and you can still plug normal 15 A plugs into it. A 20-A outlet usually runs more than a 15-A because they are not as common, but they are about $5 instead of $2 for run-of-the-mill Leviton or whatever. Not a huge cost.
if someone wants to run 20 amp gear, it really is not that hard. Any home with a crawlspace or basement is easily wired to an extra outlet, or even the extra 6 or so that I have. The breaker simply pops into the panel. The black wire goes to the breaker, the white wire goes to the neutral bus bar, and the ground goes to the ground connection in the panel. You then run your wire till, it is long enough to reach its destination. The ground wire will go the outlet box, and the ground terminal on the plug, Your hot or black wire will go the the smaller outlet hole and the white to the bigger outlet hole.

You do not have to run the wire in the wall. you can run it along basement ceilings. and go up or down threw the floor to your intended location. You can always find an electrician willing to do small jobs like this also for cash, if you do not want to fool with the electrical gods.

I have an XPR 2, and I seriously have a hard time seeing an XPR 5 or an XPR 2 hit or get anywhere near transformer saturation. Even if you have only one dedicated 15 amp line for the amplifier. it will have to push out at least 1500 watts before you start seeing any power sag. Thats 300 watts per channel times five channels for the XPR 5. I believe she is rated for 400.00 each channel.

A Good amplifier requires a adequate power supply, It does not matter what the amplifier is capable of if the power supply will not provide the power required. Most amplifiers have under rated power supplies. It is up to you to make sure you get the ones that are
least under rated if at all.

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post #226 of 226 Unread Today, 05:24 AM
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Our basement is finished, and the service is full, so adding a line now would be very challenging for me. Others may have similar issues. Fortunately, I had three 20 A lines run to the media room's front wall. Of course now I am planning to add subs in back but oh well.

If you run the line exterior to the wall or ceiling (but inside the house) you may still have to enclose it in a raceway or conduit (check local codes).

Agree on the power demands, not likely to see max peaks in the real world. Note 1500 W (or 1800 W if you use 120 V * 15 A) will not equate to 300 W/ch output since the amp is not 100 % efficient (it's class H with AB outputs IIRC so figure about 60 % efficiency max). A moot point; I suspect an XPR is overkill for most of the buyers.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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