Help with DTS Master Audio - PS3+Denon AVR-1513 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 07-07-2012, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

This is my first post, and I'm posting because I'm getting a little desperate trying to figure out how to make my Denon AVR-1513 play the audio directly, not thru the crappy presets (Multichannel stereo, direct, virtual, etc). I have my PS3 connected via HDMI to my receiver, and another HDMI from the receiver to my Mitsubishi HC4000 projector. When I play a blu-ray, and try to select the audio mode with the Surround button on my receiver remote, it only circles between the built-in options(direct, virtual, etc), and I haven't found a way for it to show on the display DTS Master, Dolby HD, etc like it does on the default picture on the website: http://usa.denon.com/US/Product/Pages/ProductDetail.aspx?CatId=AVReceivers%28DenonNA%29&PId=AVR1513%28DenonNA%29

I have spent several hours trying to figure out whats wrong and I can't. Have read the user manual and it says just to select the correct audio mode, but it does not let me select DTS, Dolby, etc... Everything on my PS3 is selected as supported all audio formats.

Any suggestions?
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post #2 of 16 Old 07-07-2012, 06:39 PM
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Change it from linear PCM to bitstream. That makes the receiver process the Dolby. Then you will have more options.
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post #3 of 16 Old 07-07-2012, 07:09 PM
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I thought "play the audio directly" usually means using the 'direct mode' which does not apply or apply minimum processing and this isn't specifically related to seeing DTS MASTER on the display. And why would the surround mode options differ depending on whether it's receiving PCM or bitstream? Don't receivers decode the bitstream to PCM and then apply surround processing in the same way as if it's receiving PCM?

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #4 of 16 Old 07-07-2012, 07:20 PM
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That's what I thought too but by changing that it "unlocked" everything for me.
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post #5 of 16 Old 07-07-2012, 07:26 PM
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The ps3 when PCM is selected will encode everything and multichannel will be the Dolby dts. Bitstream being selected will send all info to the receiver for the receiver to encode. The problem is you lose overlay audio samples like some menu sounds. The bitstream will send legacy codecs to the receiver for decoding. PCM will send all audio information to your recover under multichannel. You won't see a Dolby dts option but it will be dts. I have mine on bitstream because I personally like the way it sounds.

This is an old thread and I don't know if any updates in firmware change any of this.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/824244/confused-about-audio-setup-on-ps3

Here is another good one.
http://www.avsforum.com/t/931796/official-ps3-faq-master-thread

Edit.
Actually upon checking out the second link it depends on the model you have an with the current firmware for which to choose. Slims set to bitstream and fats use PCM. As of the 3.0 release.

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post #6 of 16 Old 07-07-2012, 08:34 PM
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The PS3 will play either Stereo, bitstream or multi channel PCM audio depending on how you have it set. As noted, if you have a "fat" PS3, set it to LPCM and the AVR should read "Mult CH IN" which will be the same quality as the bitstream audio which can be sent by the "slim" PS3. Also ensure to select the correct HD audio track on the BD as it's not always the default as well as ensuring the DD and DTS 5.1 tracks are selected on the PS3 audio settings.

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post #7 of 16 Old 07-07-2012, 09:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input guys. I played a DVD and now the display of dolby appears when I'm selecting surround modes, and using Netflix too will show any audio track I choose. The problem seems only related to blurays frown.gif HDCP would be a problem with cheap HDMI cables from eBay? I don't know just a thought. I have the slim PS3 with all file types selected as supported
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post #8 of 16 Old 07-07-2012, 10:04 PM - Thread Starter
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I got it to work, I was missing the.bitsream setting in the Video Section in the Ps3! shouldn't that.be in audio? lol now it shows the correct setting and sounds so much better smile.gif
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post #9 of 16 Old 07-08-2012, 02:08 AM
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It's not HDCP problem as such, otherwise you won't get anything. It seems you were getting stereo output before and that explains the MCH stereo mode etc. you saw. I don't know why if you don't select bitstream you were only getting stereo (PCM) and not MCH PCM for Blu-rays. There must be a way to output MCH PCM. There's no such confusion with the Sony BD players.

The PS3's audio setting problems is one of the most frequently asked questions and interesting they always tend to crop up in the receiver forum.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #10 of 16 Old 09-19-2012, 10:56 AM
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Wouldn't you want uncompressed audio and hence choose PCM? Dts-HD is somewhat compressed audio. Is it not. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
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post #11 of 16 Old 09-19-2012, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oleon621 View Post

Wouldn't you want uncompressed audio and hence choose PCM? Dts-HD is somewhat compressed audio. Is it not. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

DTS HD is losslessly compressed. Once uncompressed it is identical to the original PCM file. I'm not a PS3 guy, so I can't really weigh in on what they do. My general understanding is tha the new slim ones can pass losslessly compressed digital audio via HDMI but the fat ones could not. Selecting PCM as the output should make zero difference if you're talking about a compressed (lossless or lossy) audio file. Either it gets unzipped to PCM in the PS3 or in the receiver. Same process either place.
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post #12 of 16 Old 09-19-2012, 03:11 PM
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So I should play DTS-HD as oppose to PCM because they're in essence the same thing? I'm just trying to ge the clearest possible audio from my speakers. So I'm looking for some guidance. Thanks
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post #13 of 16 Old 09-19-2012, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oleon621 View Post

So I should play DTS-HD as oppose to PCM because they're in essence the same thing? I'm just trying to ge the clearest possible audio from my speakers. So I'm looking for some guidance. Thanks

While there are BDs with multichannel PCM (Disney was big on it for a while, I think) if the BD contains DTS HD then you will play either the HD or a lossy core DTS encode. The original PCM is encoded into DTS or Dolby, either lossless or lossy. If what's on the disk is DTS or dolby, you have to start with DTS or dolby. Whether it is lossless or not, the first step in the process decodes the DTS or Dolby, turning it into PCM. Digital to analog converters (DACs) cannot read DTS or Dolby, they need PCM. Somewhere along the chain the DTS or Dolby has to turn into PCM or you'll never hear anything. If what gets turned into PCM started out lossy then what you hear is the lossy track. Converting it into PCM cannot magically restore whatever was removed for purposes of the lossy encode. If it's a lossless track like DTS HD, then after it is decoded, the PCM should be precisely the same as the PCM mix that was encoded. That's why it's lossless. IT doesn't matter whether the DTS or Dolby is turned into PCM (decoded) in the PS3 or other player or in the receiver. The decoding process is identical in either location and the result is PCM that can be manipulated by the receiver (bass management, room correction, etc.) and can be converted by the DAC into analog sound that can be amplified and played through speakers or headphones or whatever.
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post #14 of 16 Old 09-19-2012, 06:43 PM
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Decoding of lossless formats to PCM should be identical in player and AVR but there are certain situations where it matters because of specific limitations or idiosyncrasies, like PiP mixed audio or when AVR cannot both decode and apply processing due to limited DSP, or a player cannot send more than 5.1 PCM (at least one I know of) or for 6.1 track it could be handled differently. Don't forget some older AVRs had 'dts bomb' and many people simply won't be content unless they see 'dts-HD' lighted up on the front display (the power of marketing and psychology)!biggrin.gif

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #15 of 16 Old 12-07-2012, 07:54 AM
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Sorry to hijack this thread, but I have a question that is SOMEWHAT related.

I have the Denon AVR-1713, and I am trying to bitstream HD audio (DTS-HD, TrueHD) to the Denon receiver in an m2ts container using MPC-HC. My understanding is that I can do this with the LAV filters, but I have been unable to get the receiver to light up with Dolby HD or DTS HD.

Anyone here know how to get this working (or have a guide they can point me to that is confirmed to work with this receiver)? Am I approaching this completely wrong? I'm willing to use other programs or look into other options. I ultimately just want to figure out how I can get this receiver to pump out HD audio from m2ts files on my HTPC.

I've been trying to figure this out for days and I just can't get it working. This is my first receiver so this is all a bit new to me.
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post #16 of 16 Old 04-19-2013, 01:59 AM
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I was wondering why after I had moved my 3312 only showed multi channel input.. Be as it may, I like seeing that juicy fat HD-DTS on my display. Even if it doesent make a difference in sound, It helps me sleep better at night and thats ALL that matters

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