Yamaha NS-A1738 + Onkyo TX-NR708 + Onkyo M-282 = confusion? Biamping and 7.1 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 8 Old 07-09-2012, 02:32 PM - Thread Starter
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I am by no means an expert at audio video wizardry, but I feel I at least have a decent understanding of most things. That being said, I have a problem that I haven't been able to find a definitive answer to despite searching around the net for several days. I also called Onkyo directly, but I think they have techs with less technical expertise than I have. So I thought I'd pose my question to the real experts.

Ok, so, I currently have a nice 7.2 system hooked up that I do like. However, I have come into possession of some Yamaha NS-A1738 towers which have large (15" I think?) unpowered woofers. I understand that in this particular case, bi-amping can be very beneficial to this tower in particular. What I want to do is run the Yamahas at as near to their full 230 watt input as possible while still maintaining my 7.1 setup. To assist in this, I have a single unused Onkyo M-282 amplifier. Now, I haven't been able to figure out the ideal way to hook this up presently, and Onkyo is currently "checking" to see if they can come up with an answer.

Thus far I have thought of setting the TX-NR708 to bi-amp mode with the surround back two channels supporting the Yamahas and then using the surround back left and right preouts to connect to my M-282 to power the remainder of my 7.1 system. In this instance however, I am unsure if the receiver will recognize that I indeed have all 7 channels, and I want to be able to decode the new 7.1 formats.

The other way I thought about doing it was to connect the FL and FR preouts to my M-282 and send the receivers FL and FR powered out to the tweeters and the M-282 to the woofer on the Yamahas leaving the remainder of the 7.1 setup as is. I don't know if this is kosher, and wasn't sure if my receiver adjusted the sound output when Biamp is activated normally, or if the entire output was normally sent to both tweeter and woofer and then filtered out at the speaker level.

I have no idea which of either of these will work (if either), and don't really have any desire to damage my speakers. What Onkyo said to do before I questioned the tech was connect the FL and FR powered output to my Yamaha tweeters and the SBL and SBR preout to my amplifier, then to my Yamaha woofer. This didn't make sense to me as I couldn't figure out how the receiver would know that I didn't have a legitimate SBL and SBR channel connected to the unit, and when I asked the tech this, he decided to go get more information. I figured this most likely wouldn't work and likely could damage my speakers (or at the least make it sound like crap unless the receiver magically could predict what I was trying to do), so I have yet to do anything with the amplifier yet.

I would greatly appreciate any advice, direction, guidance, etc. that anyone could give me for how to make this happen as I purchased the M-282 from Onkyo on a previous techs recommendation as the solution to my problem. Now I'm beginning to wonder if he knew what he was talking about or not.

Thank you much in advance prospective repliers!
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post #2 of 8 Old 07-09-2012, 07:17 PM
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The receiver knows what and how many speakers you have from what you select in the speaker set-up menu, not by what is connected where. Generally the bi-amp mode is used when you actually use the speaker outputs; it's not needed when you use the pre-outs.

Using an ext. amp doesn't mean it will deliver full 230W because it depends on your listening levels. If the receiver maxes out well below that (very likely) and shuts off then it'll never reach that.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #3 of 8 Old 07-09-2012, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Hmmm ok, got ya. I guess I'll try the Biamp setup using the rear surround preouts to the amplifier. I was concerned that by switching it to biamp, it might mute the preouts, but since (as you said) I should be able to tell it what I have, perhaps that will work. I'll give that a shot. Yea, I figured it was unlikely that I'd ever get the full 230 watts - but I'd like to move closer to that if possible. The woofer on the Yamaha's sounds severely underpowered as is.

As to the biamping usually being done via the receiver, I'm aware that it usually happens that way. I was just curious if it could happen with tweeters from receiver and woofers from the amp. Does anyone know if attempting this setup would be harmful?

Thanks for idea above Kilian.ca
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post #4 of 8 Old 07-09-2012, 11:19 PM
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Usually the more powerful amp is used for the woofers. You can simply use the FL/FR pre-outs to ext. amp for the woofers, the receiver's FL/FR speaker outs for the tweeters. No need to set bi-amp mode. The pre-outs aren't drawing any power from the speaker outputs. You don't need to assign a pair of speaker outputs just to use the pre-outs.

The other thing is the ext. amp might have different gain but this should be mostly taken care of by room correction.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #5 of 8 Old 07-09-2012, 11:28 PM
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Bi-amping (passively, without the use of a crossover known as "actively") is a complete waste and gains you absolutely nothing.

In A/V reproduction accuracy, there is no concept of "accounting for taste". We don't "pick" the level of bass any more than we get to pick the ending of a play. High fidelity is an unbiased, neutral, exact copy (or "reproduction") of the original source's tonal balance, timing, dynamics, etc..

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post #6 of 8 Old 07-11-2012, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks Kilian.ca.

M. Zillch, how would you envision my setup? I assume you think it will sound better if I purchase a crossover. I don't know much about them - is there a specific one you think I should get? Thanks again for the advice. Ive already learned a lot.
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post #7 of 8 Old 07-11-2012, 06:19 PM
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Actually (now I have more time looking up things) the M-282 is rated at only 100WPC and the 708 110WPC. Forget about using the M-282. It's not giving you an extra 100W with bi-amping or with it doing all the amplification. If you really need more power, the easiest way (without getting involved with ext. XO) is to get a bigger amp and use it on its own.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #8 of 8 Old 08-21-2013, 09:19 PM
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The Yamaha NS-A1738 is probably one of the most underrated and misunderstood speakers ever.
The cabinet is a bit small for the 15 inch side mounted woofers, and Yamaha intended for these speakers to be almost flush against a rear wall. They are front ported.
I have a 20 by 24 foot room, and the Yamaha NS-A1738's will rattle it with bass.
In fact, my Son listens to Rap, like Bone, Snoop Dogg, and WuTang Clan, stuff like that.
He says they "Hit" really good, and he has big Cerwin Vega's at home.

I recently found a pair of Yamaha NS-A1738's on the suggestion of an audiophile friend, and I am quite impressed. Yamaha electronics may have a reputation of being "bright", but the Yamaha NS-A1738 speakers are anything but.

In fact, they are a very warm and rich sounding speaker, and just plain sound musical and soothing, vs hard, bright, and overly detailed.
They do voices on TV very well, image decent, and just plain sound good, on almost everything you play.

If you are a "detail freak", you will want a brighter speaker, but if you like music, and know what it really sounds like, you will love the Yamaha NS-A1738

Be SURE and BiWire the Yamaha NS-A1738 speakers smile.gif

This piano sounds really good on the Yamaha Speakers, but then, it should! After all, Yamaha Makes Piano's smile.gif
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