Marantz SR7007 AV Receiver Owner's Thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 1064 Old 09-11-2013, 06:18 PM
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Are you playing the AVR loud enough now that you hear distortion from the speakers? If no, then no.

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post #632 of 1064 Old 09-12-2013, 12:54 PM
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Naw, sounds fine at pretty high end. Thinking possibly matching the center instead might be the better cash to quality move. Thanks for the reply!
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post #633 of 1064 Old 09-17-2013, 06:36 PM
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Anyone know what the recent firmware update added?
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post #634 of 1064 Old 09-18-2013, 01:25 PM
 
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Hello: I've been experimenting with playback of some multi-channel SACDs thru the 7007 and I'm aware that in fine print, the owner's manual states that DSD is converted to PCM by the receiver. My Oppo 83 SE can either output DSD or first convert it to PCM via HDMI, so I'm wondering which way would give me the best sound quality, or would it matter? Oppo recommends converting DSD to PCM in the player, saying that it leaves more precessing power in the receiver for other things. Thanks!
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post #635 of 1064 Old 09-18-2013, 02:12 PM
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Wouldn't you be the best judge of that as you're the listening?

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post #636 of 1064 Old 09-18-2013, 03:35 PM
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As for the processing part of the question, that depends on the receiver model and is quite relevant to the 7007.

Some receivers (and pre/pros) can't accept DSD at all, so converting it in the player is required; some accept DSD but can't process it at all (e.g. can't apply bass management or room EQ), so converting it in the player depends on your listening preferences; some which can convert it internally to high-bitrate LPCM are limited as to how much processing they can apply; and others can process it just like any other input signal, so converting it in the player is unnecessary. The 7007 is in the third category: quite a few processing options cannot be applied to a signal that comes in as DSD.

Most importantly, Audyssey room EQ cannot be applied to a DSD signal. See page 165 of the owner's manual.
Another unavailable option is "Home Theater EQ" -- see page 164 of the owner's manual.

To summarize: I'd expect the sound quality to be better if you convert to LPCM in the player and enable Audyssey in the receiver.

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post #637 of 1064 Old 09-18-2013, 03:45 PM
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^^
Actually Audyssey can be applied to a DSD signal that is converted to PCM by the 7007. Rather it cannot be applied if the DSD signal is passed as DSD and the surround mode is set to DIRECT which is what that page you reference is referring to.

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post #638 of 1064 Old 09-18-2013, 07:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Actually Audyssey can be applied to a DSD signal that is converted to PCM by the 7007. Rather it cannot be applied if the DSD signal is passed as DSD and the surround mode is set to DIRECT which is what that page you reference is referring to.
OK, now you guys are confusing me. I think that the best bet is to do what Oppo suggests and that is to let the player convert the DSD to PCM and then the standard Audessy EQ would be applied as usual, right? BTW, I have never messed with the surround modes or the direct mode when playing an SACD. Selden, what do you mean that Home Theatre EQ can't be applied? My page 164 says "other information" and doesn't discuss this, unless you're referring to those charts on pages 165 and 166. But, again, as long as I have the player do the DSD-to-PCM conversion, EQ will be applied, just like any other surround format.
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post #639 of 1064 Old 09-18-2013, 07:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

As for the processing part of the question, that depends on the receiver model and is quite relevant to the 7007.

Some receivers (and pre/pros) can't accept DSD at all, so converting it in the player is required; some accept DSD but can't process it at all (e.g. can't apply bass management or room EQ), so converting it in the player depends on your listening preferences; some which can convert it internally to high-bitrate LPCM are limited as to how much processing they can apply; and others can process it just like any other input signal, so converting it in the player is unnecessary. The 7007 is in the third category: quite a few processing options cannot be applied to a signal that comes in as DSD.

Most importantly, Audyssey room EQ cannot be applied to a DSD signal. See page 165 of the owner's manual.
Another unavailable option is "Home Theater EQ" -- see page 164 of the owner's manual.

To summarize: I'd expect the sound quality to be better if you convert to LPCM in the player and enable Audyssey in the receiver.
Selden: You're not saying that Audyssey has to be enabled separately when playing an SACD, are you?
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post #640 of 1064 Old 09-18-2013, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William Moore View Post

OK, now you guys are confusing me. I think that the best bet is to do what Oppo suggests and that is to let the player convert the DSD to PCM and then the standard Audessy EQ would be applied as usual, right? BTW, I have never messed with the surround modes or the direct mode when playing an SACD. Selden, what do you mean that Home Theatre EQ can't be applied? My page 164 says "other information" and doesn't discuss this, unless you're referring to those charts on pages 165 and 166. But, again, as long as I have the player do the DSD-to-PCM conversion, EQ will be applied, just like any other surround format.

EQ will be applied as long as you don't use DIRECT mode ... doesn't matter which device does the conversion.

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post #641 of 1064 Old 09-18-2013, 07:36 PM
 
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OK, thanks! Now I can breathe again!smile.gif
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post #642 of 1064 Old 09-19-2013, 02:10 AM
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Hey guys I want those nice dolby and dts logos to show up on the front of my receiver. I have it connected to my Ps3 in bitstream and using the game hdmi. What do I need to change?

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post #643 of 1064 Old 09-19-2013, 02:16 AM
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Nothing. Keep in mind however that most PS3 games use PCM tracks so you would only see "Multi CH IN" for most games, otherwise you should see either DD or DTS for movies.

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post #644 of 1064 Old 09-19-2013, 05:27 AM
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Im playing a DTS disc...on the app it says DTS..on the display i see Blu-ray and the volume level. Isnt it supposed to change the logo?

Update: The DTS logo showed up now, but not on the porthole display, but the large one behind the flap

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post #645 of 1064 Old 09-19-2013, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rehan View Post

Anyone know what the recent firmware update added?

i was wondering this also
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post #646 of 1064 Old 09-19-2013, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by William Moore View Post

OK, now you guys are confusing me. I think that the best bet is to do what Oppo suggests and that is to let the player convert the DSD to PCM and then the standard Audessy EQ would be applied as usual, right? BTW, I have never messed with the surround modes or the direct mode when playing an SACD. Selden, what do you mean that Home Theatre EQ can't be applied? My page 164 says "other information" and doesn't discuss this, unless you're referring to those charts on pages 165 and 166. But, again, as long as I have the player do the DSD-to-PCM conversion, EQ will be applied, just like any other surround format.

EQ will be applied as long as you don't use DIRECT mode ... doesn't matter which device does the conversion.

What JD said. As usual smile.gif I was reading the footnotes without paying enough attention to the page's header.
Quote:
Selden: You're not saying that Audyssey has to be enabled separately when playing an SACD, are you?
No, just leave it on.

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post #647 of 1064 Old 09-19-2013, 02:44 PM
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Hi All,

I have a couple of questions I was hoping someone can please help me with:


Gear: FR/FL - Klipsch RF-82 II (Bi Amped)
Center - Klipsch RC-62 II
SL/SR - Boston Acoustics In Ceiling HSi 4830
Sub - KEF HTB2SE

I've run the Audessy set-up numerous times and these are the results from Audessy
FL/FR set to Large "full band" with crossover set to 40HZ
Center set to small with crossover set to 60HZ
SL/SR set to Large (??? I changed those to small in manual set-up) with crossover set to 80HZ
Sub set to LFE + Main at 120HZ

1: This is Audessy's set up like I stated and I have run it numerous times. It sounds great but am I maximizing the potential of the AVR and/or speakers or losing any quality with these current settings?
2: Also, I've put in numerous BR discs (Star Trek, No Country For Old Men, There Will Be Blood, The Master) and It's outputting at Dolby True-HD through the BR player, however the AVR is only decoding at Multi Channel. While holding down the movie button there is no choice to change to DTHD. Just stereo, multi channel stereo, multi channel in (I think) and virtual. Any ideas what's going on here?
3: Anyone know what the recent update included? I received a notice this past Tuesday morning (9/17/13) that there was an update. I did the update but the only thing I noticed was it screwed up all my previous settings. Even after running the Audessy again it would just default back to just FL/C/FR output in a very bland tone. I did fix it after about 4 hours but I had to hold down the zone button on the remote, choose 'main' and 'set' that just to get the 5.1 setting back. It was quite frustrating, to say the least, to figure that out as I hadn't had to do that during the initial set-up. I don't even know how I figured it out, I just started pressing everything in hopes that something has to give.

Thanks for the help....
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post #648 of 1064 Old 09-19-2013, 03:26 PM
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kiloco35,

Your questions suggest that you haven't read the Audyssey 101/FAQ, which discusses all of these concepts as well as how to get the best out of the Audyssey calibration. The instructions in the receiver's manual are woefully inadequate. See http://www.avsforum.com/t/795421/official-audyssey-thread-faq-in-post-1/51750#post_21782993

Remember that bi-amping really does nothing useful unless you're using external electronic crossovers, especially with the efficient speakers that Klipsch makes.

"LFE+MAIN" causes "bass bloat". The frequency range where the subwoofer overlaps with the main speakers gets output from all of them. While you might enjoy the extra bass, it isn't very accurate. Other receiver manufacturers call this setting "Double Bass", which is more appropriate.

1. A clarification: Audyssey does not set the speakers to Large. It passes the f3 frequency that it measured to the receiver's software which decides if that frequency is low enough to call them Large. (My understanding, which could be mistaken, is that this typically is 40 or 50 Hz. Which is not very low.)

You can get higher quality bass audio if you set all of the speakers to Small (which really means "enable bass management") and place the subwoofer in the best location in the room. If you haven't already, you should consider reading up on the concept of "sub crawl" to find out how to find the best placement. A good subwoofer can provide far better bass than most floorstanding speakers, especially because it can be placed in the best position in the room. That's seldom near the main speakers.

2. The "Multi Channel" indicator means that the player is decoding the audio into LPCM. If you want the receiver to do the decoding, you have to change settings in the player: select "bitstream" and turn off "audio mix".

When the disc you're playing provides all of the surround-sound channels, all of the speaker channels are already being used. As a result, there's nothing that Prologic or Neo can do to expand them to more speakers, so those functions are not available. Until you buy more speakers, of course smile.gif (surround-back, surround-wide and/or surround-height).

3. JDSmoothie maintains a list of firmware updates at the beginning of the Denon threads. Denon and Marantz firmware updates are identical in functionality.

Usually the "Recall" function will get back the previous Audyssey settings. Also, there are save and restore functions in the receiver's Web page which can cause it to save the receiver's internal settings to a computer. This can be useful as a backup. It can take several minutes, though, and apparently only works with Internet Explorer. Those buttons usually aren't visible when using other browsers.

I hope these comments help a little.

Selden

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post #649 of 1064 Old 09-19-2013, 03:53 PM
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Thanks Seldon! I appreciate the reply cool.gif. You are correct, I had not read up on the Audyssey 101/FAQ.
So are you saying that by bi-amping I'm not really gaining any worthwhile audio? My understanding was that this helps drive the bass crossover and mid and high crossovers better by giving them dedicated amps as opposed to allowing the speaker to crossover the frequencies internally and split the amps through one channel, so to speak. I will change the bass to LFE only at 80hz as that seems to be the recommended setting. I haven't found it too "basey" but I also haven't wanted to cranked up the system yet as I only have about 20 hrs on the speakers.
I'm still a bit confused though as to what I should have the FL/FR set to - small or large? They sound great to me on large yet there's so many conflicting opinions on what is technically recommended and why. For as many post I've read that say set them to small, there are just as many that say leave them on large for floor standing speakers that can output the frequency levels.
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post #650 of 1064 Old 09-19-2013, 06:00 PM
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When using Audyssey, there should be no conflicting opinion at all ... you set ALL speakers to SMALL with a minimum of 80Hz crossover. Doing so allows Audyssey to take advantage of the fact that Mult XT has 8x more sub correction filters than speaker filters not to mention provides more headroom for the AVR as it puts more of the load on the sub which is using it's own dedicated amp.

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post #651 of 1064 Old 09-20-2013, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kiloco35 View Post

Thanks Seldon! I appreciate the reply cool.gif. You are correct, I had not read up on the Audyssey 101/FAQ.
So are you saying that by bi-amping I'm not really gaining any worthwhile audio? My understanding was that this helps drive the bass crossover and mid and high crossovers better by giving them dedicated amps as opposed to allowing the speaker to crossover the frequencies internally and split the amps through one channel, so to speak.

That argument applies when you're using external active (digital) crossovers and provide a separate amp for each speaker driver, each with its own independent power supply. It's irrelevant when using the internal analog crossovers built into speakers.

You''d be better served by using those receiver channels to drive additional surround-sound speakers. Many people report getting a more enveloping soundfield when using the "wide-surround" speaker configuration. Others like the improvement in overhead sounds when using height speakers. (Master and Commander is often cited for people walking on the deck overhead.) With the 7007 you can have all three pairs (including rear-surround) wired up and select whichever is appropriate. The 7007 has only 7 internal amplifiers, so you can only drive one of those additional pairs at the same time the main 5.1 speakers are active.
Quote:
I will change the bass to LFE only at 80hz as that seems to be the recommended setting. I haven't found it too "basey" but I also haven't wanted to cranked up the system yet as I only have about 20 hrs on the speakers.
I'm still a bit confused though as to what I should have the FL/FR set to - small or large? They sound great to me on large yet there's so many conflicting opinions on what is technically recommended and why. For as many post I've read that say set them to small, there are just as many that say leave them on large for floor standing speakers that can output the frequency levels.
JD's advice is correct (as usual wink.gif ). Technically, a dedicated, quality subwoffer can provide far better low frequency sounds than even the best floor-standing speakers. This is for several reasons:
1. The subwoofer can be placed in the best position for handling bass frequencies in your room. Bass frequencies include wavelengths which are close to the dimensions of the room. Those sounds interact with the room boundaries much differently than the higher frequencies (which have much shorter wavelengths) do.
2. The subwoofer is designed to handle low frequencies which can overly stress woofers, causing distortion.
3. By sending power-hungry low frequencies to a separate powered subwoofer, you're offloading the amplifiers in the receiver, providing more headroom for when you crank the volume way up.
(I'm sure there are others that I'm forgetting.)

Selden

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post #652 of 1064 Old 09-20-2013, 09:53 AM
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Thanks Selden and JD,

I went home last night and change 'Auto Mix' to off in my BD player which was set to 'Auto'. That immediately solved the issue with the decoding and I now have DTS TrueHD coming in gloriously. So, thank you very much for the advise. Also, I changed the setting to 'small' for the floor stands but kept them at 40hz. They still sound great but would I be better served just pushing them up to 80hz to leave more lower frequency delivery for the sub?
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post #653 of 1064 Old 09-20-2013, 10:32 AM
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While there are technical reasons why raising the crossover frequency is a "good thing," you should give it a try to see if it sounds good to you. Some people have reported liking it with the crossover raised even higher (e.g. 120Hz) but that's very much a personal choice.

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post #654 of 1064 Old 09-20-2013, 11:32 AM
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It also becomes easier to localize the sub at frequencies set higher than 80Hz (unless you're running two or more subs).

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post #655 of 1064 Old 09-20-2013, 06:23 PM
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Help! Just came home and my system is only playing through the center channel? This happened the other day and I messed with the remote and solved it by messing with the zone setting however this doesn't seem to be working? It shows no speakers yet sound is coming out of the CC. Help please!
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post #656 of 1064 Old 09-20-2013, 06:25 PM
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Disregard.
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post #657 of 1064 Old 10-12-2013, 05:37 AM
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So is everyone here pretty much happy with their 7007. Thinking of upgrading from my trusty 6001 now that these are affordable.

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post #658 of 1064 Old 10-12-2013, 11:26 PM
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Hi all, again.

Question for you this time regarding the Info Display and it appearing and not appearing on my TV screen when turning on/off the Video Mode. I know the flip-down panel shows this regardless but for some reason, and it's bugging me, the following happens (with info display switched on):

Video Mode On = I can see the volume and sound mode on my TV screen (which I like).

Video Mode Off = I can not see the above on my TV screen (which bugs the h@ll out of me and don't like the flip thing down - call me fussy rolleyes.gif )

Question is, if I keep the Video mode on is the AV receiver trying to upscale/do things to the video signal? If not, I'll just keep video mode on. If so, any suggestions / advice?

Thanks again for any insight. And not an attempt to butter up but have to say this forum is way more helpful than What Hi-Fi etc etc. (which are still good for their own reasons).

Cheers.
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post #659 of 1064 Old 10-13-2013, 05:36 AM
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^^
Considering "Video Mode" is either (Auto, Game, Movie), you're more likely referring to the "Video Convert" (On/Off) setting which needs to be on in order to overlay the GUI on the current video source. This setting is separate from the "i/p Scaler" setting which defaults to "Analog" but can be turned OFF if desired.

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post #660 of 1064 Old 10-13-2013, 06:23 AM
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Thanks JDSmoothie. As long as I know it's not playing about with the picture (given that's the blu-ray player's job, imo) then it is all good. For example I don't know why you'd buy an Oppo to improve a DVD's picture etc and then have the picture signal re-processed / played around with again by the AV receiver.

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