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post #631 of 1407 Old 06-14-2013, 07:17 AM
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So basically what you guys are saying is, by doing nothing, gbaby is still EQ'ing his room. Unconscious EQ, really.

Mourning the disappearance of the -ly suffix. Words being cut-off before they've had a chance to fully form, left incomplete, with their shoelaces untied and their zippers undone. If I quote your post (or post in your thread) without comment, please check your zipper.
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post #632 of 1407 Old 06-14-2013, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Right.  That's my weekend room and, unfortunately, it is 15.5' x 16 x 8.  (My main room is much, much better.)  Literally, a half cube and I am stuck with it. ...


Nobody is saying you have to agree.

When I saw that photo of the room, I almost felt sorry for you. smile.gif I do not disagree that you need EQ. I'm just happy I don't perceive a sonic deficiency in my current set up with the SP3.



By the way my icons aren't working again or I would have given you a "wink" at the end of the last sentence in this reply.
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post #633 of 1407 Old 06-14-2013, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

When I saw that photo of the room, I almost felt sorry for you. smile.gif I do not disagree that you need EQ. I'm just happy I don't perceive a sonic deficiency in my current set up with the SP3.



By the way my icons aren't working again or I would have given you a "wink" at the end of the last sentence in this reply.

Wow Man! not fond of kind words? There's an old saying "If you ain't got nothing nice to say , don't say nothing at all" wink.gif
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post #634 of 1407 Old 06-14-2013, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post


Wow Man! not fond of kind words? There's an old saying "If you ain't got nothing nice to say , don't say nothing at all" wink.gif

That's OK.  I was going to respond by enquiring whether his perceptions had been calilbrated! tongue.gif 

 

It's all in good fun.


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http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #635 of 1407 Old 06-14-2013, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

That's OK.  I was going to respond by enquiring whether his perceptions had been calilbrated! tongue.gif
 


It's all in good fun.

Thick skin Kal! that's good to know biggrin.gif
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post #636 of 1407 Old 06-16-2013, 11:49 AM
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HDMI Issue with Star Trek

I went to watch the first "new" star trek blu-ray and I couldn't get sound via HDMI. I just wouldn't recognize the signal. I was able to use the 7.1 bypass but I don't know why the HDMI didn't work. I have an Oppo BDP-95 with the primary HDMI going to my projector and the secondary going to the SP3. It has worked fine with other movies. Is this an issue that occurs with certain movies or could there be another issue?

David M.
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post #637 of 1407 Old 06-16-2013, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CruelInventions View Post

So basically what you guys are saying is, by doing nothing, gbaby is still EQ'ing his room. Unconscious EQ, really.
Not just gbaby. We are all subject to the tyranny of room acoustics.

And if we branch out to more than 2 speakers, the inherently symmetrical matching we can achieve in a 2-speaker setup is much more difficult to achieve. In a surround system it is less common to use identical speakers, and even if you did, it is impossible to position them identically relative to the walls, ceiling, floor, and seats. In addition, a well treated room is not tuned to respond the same in the front L/R pair as the Ls/L pair or the Rs/Ls pair. Absorption, diffusion and reflections are not allocated uniformly around the entire room.

Based on these realities, no matter how good a surround system sounds without EQ, and it may be superb indeed, the right EQ always improves the result. Always.
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post #638 of 1407 Old 06-16-2013, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Not just gbaby. We are all subject to the tyranny of room acoustics.

And if we branch out to more than 2 speakers, the inherently symmetrical matching we can achieve in a 2-speaker setup is much more difficult to achieve. In a surround system it is less common to use identical speakers, and even if you did, it is impossible to position them identically relative to the walls and seats. In addition, a well treated room is not tuned to respond the same in the front L/R pair as the L/Ls pair or the Ls/Rs pair. Absorption, diffusion and reflections are not allocated uniformly around the entire room.

Based on these these realities, no matter how good a surround system sounds without EQ, and it may be superb indeed, the right EQ always improves the result. Always.

well said wink.gif
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post #639 of 1407 Old 06-18-2013, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

In the spirit of discussion. Let's say you want to use a subwoofer to enhance your system. It's a good unit that measured flat in an outdoor test. Drop it in the room, and all of a sudden there's a strong peak at 50 Hz coloring the bass. That's an equalizer in the signal path -- the path being the room containing the woofer cone and the ears. A mechanical, acoustic equalizer.

Furthermore, room treatments and placement options cannot kill it. Turns out this resonance is easily tamed with a single band of PEQ working in mirror opposition. Many subwoofers included such a feature for just such an occasion. I submit the signal path is purer, less EQ'd, with the resonance removed than it was before.

smile.gif

I have to respectfully disagree with you when you say that taming a resonance with EQ makes for a purer signal path. I have owned numerous 10 and 12 band analog equalizers which I used primarily to ever so slightly boost that last octave of bass for disco music. (Don't laugh.smile.gif) In any event, while I acheived my expectation, I always felt that the over all sound was compromised by a slight decrease in imaging and all instruments having less impact or authority. When I switched out the equalizer, I have slightly less bass, but the imaging re-appeared and the instruments had a stronger, purer sound to them. Even with tone controls, when I switched out the bass and treble tone controls, I felt the sound was purer. Currently, one of my system has a Numark mixer connected to the amp (Carver 705x), and I switched the Equalizer in to increase the bass slightly for speakers that are -3db @ 42Hz. I got the desired results, but again I felt the overall sound had been compromised, and it bought on listener's fatique. I also notice that most high end pre-amps from Acoustic Research to Pass Labs do not concern themselves with EQ on their products. Its probably for the same reasons James Tanner and Bryston did not consider it in the SP3.
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post #640 of 1407 Old 06-18-2013, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

I have to respectfully disagree with you when you say that taming a resonance with EQ makes for a purer signal path. I have owned numerous 10 and 12 band analog equalizers which I used primarily to ever so slightly boost that last octave of bass for disco music. (Don't laugh.smile.gif) In any event, while I acheived my expectation, I always felt that the over all sound was compromised by a slight decrease in imaging and all instruments having less impact or authority. When I switched out the equalizer, I have slightly less bass, but the imaging re-appeared and the instruments had a stronger, purer sound to them. Even with tone controls, when I switched out the bass and treble tone controls, I felt the sound was purer. Currently, one of my system has a Numark mixer connected to the amp (Carver 705x), and I switched the Equalizer in to increase the bass slightly for speakers that are -3db @ 42Hz. I got the desired results, but again I felt the overall sound had been compromised, and it bought on listener's fatique. I also notice that most high end pre-amps from Acoustic Research to Pass Labs do not concern themselves with EQ on their products. Its probably for the same reasons James Tanner and Bryston did not consider it in the SP3.

You do realize your arguments on signal purity and a self admitted taste for Mp3's on a 10K pre/pro biggrin.gif not matter how good it makes them sound negates your points on signal purity tongue.gif

Its a real head scratcher eek.gif but I will say long live "Disco" wink.gif
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post #641 of 1407 Old 06-18-2013, 02:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post

You do realize your arguments on signal purity and a self admitted taste for Mp3's on a 10K pre/pro biggrin.gif not matter how good it makes them sound negates your points on signal purity tongue.gif

Its a real head scratcher eek.gif but I will say long live "Disco" wink.gif

You are absolutely right about your MP3 analogy. But, the fact that I can even tolerate MP3 is a testament to how good the SP3 sounds, but, if I had to bet on it I'd say its probably due to the signal coming from the clouds or streaming. Incidentally, i was a disc jockey in college and I introduced Durham, NC to disco. I'm talking the likes of Chic, AWB, Evelyn Champaine King and the like. At 58, I can appreciate those good times (no pun intended smile.gif). Additonally, I sold high end stereo, too, at Vickers Audio. It was the best job I ever had as far as enjoyment.
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post #642 of 1407 Old 06-18-2013, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

I have to respectfully disagree with you when you say that taming a resonance with EQ makes for a purer signal path. I have owned numerous 10 and 12 band analog equalizers which I used primarily to ever so slightly boost that last octave of bass for disco music. (Don't laugh.smile.gif) In any event, while I acheived my expectation, I always felt that the over all sound was compromised by a slight decrease in imaging and all instruments having less impact or authority. When I switched out the equalizer, I have slightly less bass, but the imaging re-appeared and the instruments had a stronger, purer sound to them.
I take no issue at all with your findings. Who knows what sorts of things go on inside an analog GEQ?

But I am not talking about GEQs or tone controls or using a GEQ as a tone control. I'm talking about a single band of well implemented PEQ, precisely tuned to counteract a bass resonance. Since you have not described ever doing this, how can you argue its merits?
Quote:
I also notice that most high end pre-amps from Acoustic Research to Pass Labs do not concern themselves with EQ on their products. Its probably for the same reasons James Tanner and Bryston did not consider it in the SP3.
Let's stick to facts and not conjecture. I have plenty of my own ideas why there's no tone controls on such units, and it has nothing to do with sound quality.
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post #643 of 1407 Old 06-18-2013, 04:55 PM
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Gents, it seems to me that nothing is to be gained by this debate. The participants have their views and are unlikely to be persuaded otherwise. It seems to me that the main point is, if people are happy with their systems, we should be pleased for them. smile.gif

And speaking of the SP3, it seems to me that the major flaw is . . . the manual. It badly needs updating and completion, as some pages of this 2011 document are clearly drafts and some operations, such as selecting surround modes with analog inputs, remain unaddressed.

Your thoughts?

RJ

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post #644 of 1407 Old 06-18-2013, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Gents, it seems to me that nothing is to be gained by this debate. The participants have their views and are unlikely to be persuaded otherwise. It seems to me that the main point is, if people are happy with their systems, we should be pleased for them. smile.gif

And speaking of the SP3, it seems to me that the major flaw is . . . the manual. It badly needs updating and completion, as some pages of this 2011 document are clearly drafts and some operations, such as selecting surround modes with analog inputs, remain unaddressed.

Your thoughts?

RJ

RJ, you are right, but I still like entertaining the participants views as I learn a little something along the way. I personally have provoked some of debate, but at least everyone has been civil.

That the manual is flawed is an understatement. It's horrendous! But, since downloading the undated manual, I can live with it. Plus, the SP3 sounds so good I have reasoned that the engineers spent all their efforts in its design while neglecting focusing on making the manual logical. Once you get the hang of it and understand its operation, the SP3 is quite simple to use. Have all your problems, beside the manual:), been resolved? If not, what problems are you experiencing?

Robert
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post #645 of 1407 Old 06-18-2013, 06:26 PM
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So, getting back to the SP3, I finally got the HDMI audio to work. However, it required me to unplug the unit and let it sit for 5 minutes before restarting. Have others ever had this issue?

David M.
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post #646 of 1407 Old 06-19-2013, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dminches View Post

So, getting back to the SP3, I finally got the HDMI audio to work. However, it required me to unplug the unit and let it sit for 5 minutes before restarting. Have others ever had this issue?
Quote:
Originally Posted by dminches View Post

So, getting back to the SP3, I finally got the HDMI audio to work. However, it required me to unplug the unit and let it sit for 5 minutes before restarting. Have others ever had this issue?

I have not had this problem. Is your HDMI working consistently?
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post #647 of 1407 Old 06-19-2013, 06:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dminches View Post

So, getting back to the SP3, I finally got the HDMI audio to work. However, it required me to unplug the unit and let it sit for 5 minutes before restarting. Have others ever had this issue?

I have not had this problem. Is your HDMI working consistently now?
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post #648 of 1407 Old 06-19-2013, 01:02 PM
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Hi , im new on this forum and I buy a Bryston SP-3 2 month a go , I have a question is it posible to adjust the subwoofer crossover from the sp-3?
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post #649 of 1407 Old 06-19-2013, 05:20 PM
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I haven't used the SP3 with HDMI audio since the weekend. I will see how it works this weekend.

David M.
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post #650 of 1407 Old 06-19-2013, 05:22 PM
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Welcome, RV1600:

You may indeed adjust the sub crossover. See pages 34-35 of the manual. Bryston posts an online manual on their website:

http://bryston.com/pages/technical.html


Cheerio,

RJ

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post #651 of 1407 Old 06-20-2013, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi , im new on this forum and I buy a Bryston SP-3 2 month a go , I have a question is it posible to adjust the subwoofer crossover from the sp-3?

Welcome RV1600!cool.gif
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post #652 of 1407 Old 06-25-2013, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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While I enjoy mp3 through my Bryston SP3, I am now interested in raising the bar somewhat out of curiosity. I am playing my mp3s throught an Ipad 3. Can someone tell me the best way of downloading hi rez audio from HD tracks? By this I mean what program would you use to play it back. Yes, I'm late to the party, but better late than never. Thanks.redface.gif
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post #653 of 1407 Old 06-25-2013, 07:23 PM
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Hello,

Greetings to you all !!!

I am new here, found this designated SP3 forum by chance and i hope i can get some help from you guys. I recently upgraded my Home Theater with a Bryston SP3 (I previously had the DENON AVC-A1HDA). It was the last step in my Bryston Home Theater configuration. I run 2 28BSST's for my front speakers (B&W 801D) a 4BSST for my front speaker (B&W HTM2 Diamond) and a 9BSST to run my 4 surround speakers (B@W SCMS) and i have a Velodyne Digital Drive PLUS 18 Inch Subwoofer. I use a Panasonic PT-AE4000 projector and Van Den Hul cables for the front and Center and Supra for the surrounds .The systems rocks, but as i tried to calibrate the 7.1 setup i found the pink noise emitted from the SP3 bypasses the surround back speakers although they are activated in the speaker menu. Am i doing something wrong (i use balanced inputs on the whole configuration), has anybody had the same experience ? I would love to get your input as the provided manual is rather incomplete in that regard,...


PS : I had similar issues with the HDMI and sound inputs not being recognized...the problem all went away by clicking back and forth between the digital and the HDMI button. I mainly had the issue when switching between an analogue source and a digital one...

P


(Accidently started a new thread, sorry for that....i meant to be in th SP3 thread,...)
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post #654 of 1407 Old 06-25-2013, 08:07 PM
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Hi,

I also use my iPad to stream some of my music. I usually convert FLAC files into AAC's using VBR and a maximum quality rate of 1.00 (estimated bit rate of 425Kbps). I found this to be the best way to still have a very acceptable quality combined with the ease of use of the iPad. I know it is a compromise but it is amazing what the SP3 can do with these AAC files.

Hope this helps,...


P
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post #655 of 1407 Old 06-26-2013, 12:02 PM
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Congratulations, Purpleloft:

Best wishes for many happy hours of listening to your SP3. I'm sure that more than a few of us would be interested in your assessment of the audible differences between the SP3 and the Denon.

You're absolutely right: the SP3 manual is extremely disappointing and not in keeping with the quality of the product. I'm using the SP3 in a 7.2 system (also in a balanced configuration; equipment listed below) but have not experienced the test tone issue you mention. Stan Bleszynski, SP3 software designer, should be able to resolve your problem: sb@bryston.com; stanbleszynski@gmail.com; 1 (800) 632-8217. Stan is a great guy, very helpful and quite a thinker. I found that for speaker setup, my tape measure, Radio Shack analog sound level meter, and Genelec speaker angle iPhone app were very helpful.

BTW, as you'll see above, in my post #498 of 4.16.2013 (and those preceding and following), the SP3 does not do 5.1 pass-through when speaker configuration is 7.1 (or 7.2). Ideally, the rear speakers should not receive signal, directing sound to FL - C - FR - SL - SR and sub(s). As Stan notes in his reply, this was in the original software but was dropped. He states that it will be in a firmware update. If you're interested in reinstating this basic option, you may wish to email Stan to let him know if it's important to you.

Cheerio,

RJ
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The means — Bryston SP3 | Bryston 6B-SST(C) - L/C/R; 4B-SST(C) - surrounds; 4B-SST(C) - rears | Bryston BDP-2 Digital Player; BDA-2 D/A Converter; Oppo BDP-105 | Paradigm Reference Signature S8 fronts; C5 center; ADP surrounds; S4 rears; two Velodyne DD15 subs | APC S20 | Pioneer Elite PRO-1130

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post #656 of 1407 Old 06-26-2013, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Purpleloft View Post

Hello,

Greetings to you all !!!

I am new here, found this designated SP3 forum by chance and i hope i can get some help from you guys. I recently upgraded my Home Theater with a Bryston SP3 (I previously had the DENON AVC-A1HDA). It was the last step in my Bryston Home Theater configuration. I run 2 28BSST's for my front speakers (B&W 801D) a 4BSST for my front speaker (B&W HTM2 Diamond) and a 9BSST to run my 4 surround speakers (B@W SCMS) and i have a Velodyne Digital Drive PLUS 18 Inch Subwoofer. I use a Panasonic PT-AE4000 projector and Van Den Hul cables for the front and Center and Supra for the surrounds .The systems rocks, but as i tried to calibrate the 7.1 setup i found the pink noise emitted from the SP3 bypasses the surround back speakers although they are activated in the speaker menu. Am i doing something wrong (i use balanced inputs on the whole configuration), has anybody had the same experience ? I would love to get your input as the provided manual is rather incomplete in that regard,...


PS : I had similar issues with the HDMI and sound inputs not being recognized...the problem all went away by clicking back and forth between the digital and the HDMI button. I mainly had the issue when switching between an analogue source and a digital one...

P


(Accidently started a new thread, sorry for that....i meant to be in th SP3 thread,...)

Congradulations Purpleloft. From the equipment you have and your handlle, its seems you may be Prince. biggrin.gif At any rate, now I'm jealous of both you and RJ for the caliber of equipment you own that I can't afford. smile.gif
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post #657 of 1407 Old 06-26-2013, 02:45 PM - Thread Starter
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To Purpleloft, make sure your rear speakers are set to small.

Also, I am using Cappricio app and I am trying to download Flac files with it from HD Tracks. I will look into VBR assuming its an Ipad App. I figured that I am not getting all the sound the SP3 is capable of playing listening to mp3 @ 256kps. redface.gif But it does sound good especially converted from 2.0 to 7.1 Prologic IIx music. So I can just imagine the sound with formats at a higher bit rate and frequency.
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post #658 of 1407 Old 06-26-2013, 03:03 PM
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Let the EQ wars resume (please, no, gents) . . . or . . . my preferences, your preferences:

You might find Scott Wilkinson's Home Theater Geeks interview with Paul Hales of Professional Home Cinema quite interesting. Mr. Hales makes very good points on the problems with auto- (and even manual) room EQ systems, noting many of the points presented by Bryston's James Tanner and others in the audio field and on this forum, notably gbaby. From my view, this is not a right v. wrong matter but an interesting and provocative argument, one in which we should respect others' choices. The podcast is available on video and MP3 (also from the iTunes Store).

http://twit.tv/show/home-theater-geeks/164

Best fishes,

RJ
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post #659 of 1407 Old 06-26-2013, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Dressler View Post

Not just gbaby. We are all subject to the tyranny of room acoustics.

And if we branch out to more than 2 speakers, the inherently symmetrical matching we can achieve in a 2-speaker setup is much more difficult to achieve. In a surround system it is less common to use identical speakers, and even if you did, it is impossible to position them identically relative to the walls, ceiling, floor, and seats. In addition, a well treated room is not tuned to respond the same in the front L/R pair as the Ls/L pair or the Rs/Ls pair. Absorption, diffusion and reflections are not allocated uniformly around the entire room.

Based on these realities, no matter how good a surround system sounds without EQ, and it may be superb indeed, the right EQ always improves the result. Always.

As usual very eloquent Roger! Yes but one has to have the right tools and the best calibration for EQ to be worth it! I wish there was a company out here who could do that
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post #660 of 1407 Old 06-26-2013, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SoThere View Post

Let the EQ wars resume (please, no, gents) . . . or . . . my preferences, your preferences:

You might find Scott Wilkinson's Home Theater Geeks interview with Paul Hales of Professional Home Cinema quite interesting. Mr. Hales makes very good points on the problems with auto- (and even manual) room EQ systems, noting many of the points presented by Bryston's James Tanner and others in the audio field and on this forum, notably gbaby. From my view, this is not a right v. wrong matter but an interesting and provocative argument, one in which we should respect others' choices. The podcast is available on video and MP3 (also from the iTunes Store).

http://twit.tv/show/home-theater-geeks/164

Best fishes,

RJ

Thank you for your very important post. There is some magic in the sound of the SP3 and the empirical facts shown in the video demonstrate why the Bryston SP3 is the processor to beat.
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