The Official Bryston SP3 Thread. - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 1472 Old 03-25-2014, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by dminches View Post

I would recommend you actually compare the sound of the 2 units before coming to a conclusion. Gbaby should correct me if I am wrong, but I don't believe he has actually owned a 105 so I am not sure how he has done a sound comparison with the SP3. The Oppp 95 and 105 and configured differently and do not sound the same. I have owned both.

YMMV

Thank you for the information dminches,I did call Oppo the other day and talked to one of the techs I told him I had an SP3 and he said the Oppo 105D would have a better D/A and he told me I would be fine with the 103D. I didn't want to spend that much money on the 105D right now because I'm waitting for the near future 4K blu-ray players to hit the market
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post #1082 of 1472 Old 03-26-2014, 07:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tikitom View Post

Thank you for the information dminches,I did call Oppo the other day and talked to one of the techs I told him I had an SP3 and he said the Oppo 105D would have a better D/A and he told me I would be fine with the 103D. I didn't want to spend that much money on the 105D right now because I'm waitting for the near future 4K blu-ray players to hit the market

Did the Oppo tech really tell you the Oppo 105D had a better D/A converter than the Bryston SP3 or is this a mistake?
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post #1083 of 1472 Old 03-26-2014, 10:16 AM
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Did the Oppo tech really tell you the Oppo 105D had a better D/A converter than the Bryston SP3 or is this a mistake?

It really comes down to the dac and analog stages to be considered gbaby . That said the dac's that Bryston use in the sp3 are very hard to discover ; only clue I could find was the dac used in the bda-1 dac ; so presumably crystal smile.gif
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The CS-4398 is a hybrid multi-bit delta-sigma DAC
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the 105, which has a better D/A converter than the 105D
,

Needless to say the same ess 9018 sabre dacs in the 105/105d are used in the very best applications wink.gif
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post #1084 of 1472 Old 03-26-2014, 10:43 AM
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It really comes down to the dac and analog stages to be considered gbaby . That said the dac's that Bryston use in the sp3 are very hard to discover ; only clue I could find was the dac used in the bda-1 dac ; so presumably crystal smile.gif

,

Needless to say the same ess 9018 sabre dacs in the 105/105d are used in the very best applications wink.gif

Excellent points. Most hardware designers say that the chip selection is not as important as how it is integrated into the unit. 2 units using the exact same DAC chip will, and do, sound very different.

David M.
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post #1085 of 1472 Old 03-26-2014, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Needless to say the same ess 9018 sabre dacs in the 105/105d are used in the very best applications wink.gif

Aren't they the same chips used in the Oppo BDP-95?
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post #1086 of 1472 Old 03-26-2014, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Excellent points. Most hardware designers say that the chip selection is not as important as how it is integrated into the unit. 2 units using the exact same DAC chip will, and do, sound very different.

Makes a lot of sense to me.
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post #1087 of 1472 Old 03-26-2014, 12:26 PM
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Aren't they the same chips used in the Oppo BDP-95?

Yes, but they are used very differently. There is much more "processing" power in the 105 given the design. Plus, there are other design differences which make the 2 units sound different.

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post #1088 of 1472 Old 03-26-2014, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

Did the Oppo tech really tell you the Oppo 105D had a better D/A converter than the Bryston SP3 or is this a mistake?



Yes the tech I talked to the other day said that the Oppo 105D had a better D/A converter than the SP3 he looked it up and thats what he told me.I just got off the phone with another tech from Oppo and he told me that the 105D would sound a little better than the 103D in two channel. I told him I just received the 103D and I'm waiting for it to thaw out from the winter that never ends here in North East Ohio stil in the box incase I wanted to exchange it for the 105D.He told me to keep than 103D and save the extra $700.00 he also said I will be more than satisfied with the 103D using an hdmi because I watch allot of movies.The 105D and the 103D will have the same sound using hdmi.Analog will be slightly better in 2 channel video proccesing is the same in both units the Oppo tech told me.So I am going to keep the 103D until some one comes out with a 4K blu-ray player.
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post #1089 of 1472 Old 03-27-2014, 07:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes the tech I talked to the other day said that the Oppo 105D had a better D/A converter than the SP3 he looked it up and thats what he told me.I just got off the phone with another tech from Oppo and he told me that the 105D would sound a little better than the 103D in two channel. I told him I just received the 103D and I'm waiting for it to thaw out from the winter that never ends here in North East Ohio stil in the box incase I wanted to exchange it for the 105D.He told me to keep than 103D and save the extra $700.00 he also said I will be more than satisfied with the 103D using an hdmi because I watch allot of movies.The 105D and the 103D will have the same sound using hdmi.Analog will be slightly better in 2 channel video proccesing is the same in both units the Oppo tech told me.So I am going to keep the 103D until some one comes out with a 4K blu-ray player.

Now it makes sense, he's (the Oppo tech) going on self serving heresay. The Oppo DBP-105(D) may have a more up to date D/A converter than the Bryston SP3, but as executed, it does not sound better than the SP3. In fact, its no contest; the SP3 hands down sounds better than the Oppo 105(D). If it did sound better, there would be no need for the SP3, Foundation or any other processor unless you needed source switching.
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post #1090 of 1472 Old 03-27-2014, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

Now it makes sense, he's (the Oppo tech) going on self serving heresay. The Oppo DBP-105(D) may have a more up to date D/A converter than the Bryston SP3, but as executed, it does not sound better than the SP3. In fact, its no contest; the SP3 hands down sounds better than the Oppo 105(D). If it did sound better, there would be no need for the SP3, Foundation or any other processor unless you needed source switching.

I am assuming you have heard the 105 (D) in order to say that. What were the differences in sound? In what areas did the SP3 better the 105 (D).

No one is saying that a Blu-ray player can replace a processor. But to think that the oppo or any other player couldn't sound better than the SP3 is just foolish.

David M.
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post #1091 of 1472 Old 03-27-2014, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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I am assuming you have heard the 105 (D) in order to say that. What were the differences in sound? In what areas did the SP3 better the 105 (D).

No one is saying that a Blu-ray player can replace a processor. But to think that the oppo or any other player couldn't sound better than the SP3 is just foolish.

I have only heard the BDP-95 which has the same D/A converter as the Oppo BDP-105. Well the 95, in my opinion did not sound as good as my Sony XA-5400ES, but others differ so I guess its subjective. But, more to the point, Kal Rubinson, in his review of tlhe SP3, opined that the SP3's D/A converter easily sounded much more detailed than the Oppo or Sony, both of which he owns. So using deductive reasoning, the SP3 sonically betters the Oppo 105. An Oppo or other player can sound better than the SP3; its just has not been made yet. As I matter of fact, I'd love to know of another player that sounded better than the SP3 so I can use the analog pass through for it. Do you know of one? Thanks.
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post #1092 of 1472 Old 03-27-2014, 08:59 AM
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I have only heard the BDP-95 which has the same D/A converter as the Oppo BDP-105. Well the 95, in my opinion did not sound as good as my Sony XA-5400ES, but others differ so I guess its subjective. But, more to the point, Kal Rubinson, in his review of tlhe SP3, opined that the SP3's D/A converter easily sounded much more detailed than the Oppo or Sony, both of which he owns. So using deductive reasoning, the SP3 sonically betters the Oppo 105. An Oppo or other player can sound better than the SP3; its just has not been made yet. As I matter of fact, I'd love to know of another player that sounded better than the SP3 so I can use the analog pass through for it. Do you know of one? Thanks.

This isn't science, you know. I really don't see how you can say something sounds better than something else without actually listening to both of them. Deductive reasoning has absolutely no basis here. I don't know how you can express an opinion on something you have never heard.

The 105 and the 95 are not the same players. They use the same DAC chip, but that's where the similarities end. The chips are used differently in both players and the accompanying electronics are very different. So, any information you can draw from listening to the 95 cannot be applied to the 105. I know. I have owned and listened to both.

Being detailed is only one characteristic of a player. Frankly, I find digital sources can be too detailed, or what I call "hot." So, that is not what I want in my player.

Finally, my Lamptzator DAC sounds MUCH better than the SP3 for a digital source, TO ME. And, I love the SP3.

You listen to everything in 7.1 so how would the analog pass through even benefit you?

David M.
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post #1093 of 1472 Old 03-27-2014, 11:18 AM
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Aren't they the same chips used in the Oppo BDP-95?
As dminches says different signal routing and in fact my oppo 95 had 4 dac channels stacked for the balanced /unbalanced 2ch outs ; same ess 9018's . Oppo determined that was not superior as they were told so had no qualms on reconfiguring the signal path .
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If it did sound better, there would be no need for the SP3, Foundation or any other processor unless you needed source switching.

There's a few who like room eq whether minimalist or full range smile.gif
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post #1094 of 1472 Old 03-27-2014, 02:50 PM
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I can say that the Oppo 103D sounds a thousand times better than my Sony s790 and Panasonic blu-ray palyer I finally have the center sound stage I was looking for. I am thinking about upgrading to the Oppo 105D.Has anybody compared the Oppo 103D against the 105D for sound difference?
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post #1095 of 1472 Old 03-27-2014, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by dminches View Post

This isn't science, you know. I really don't see how you can say something sounds better than something else without actually listening to both of them. Deductive reasoning has absolutely no basis here. I don't know how you can express an opinion on something you have never heard.

The 105 and the 95 are not the same players. They use the same DAC chip, but that's where the similarities end. The chips are used differently in both players and the accompanying electronics are very different. So, any information you can draw from listening to the 95 cannot be applied to the 105. I know. I have owned and listened to both.

Being detailed is only one characteristic of a player. Frankly, I find digital sources can be too detailed, or what I call "hot." So, that is not what I want in my player.

Finally, my Lamptzator DAC sounds MUCH better than the SP3 for a digital source, TO ME. And, I love the SP3.

You listen to everything in 7.1 so how would the analog pass through even benefit you?



Hi Dminches, Are you using XLR cables form the Oppo 105 to your SP3 or are you using RCA cables?
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post #1096 of 1472 Old 03-27-2014, 03:17 PM
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Hi Dminches, Are you using XLR cables form the Oppo 105 to your SP3 or are you using RCA cables?

XLR, but I have a 2 channel pre which I use for music.

David M.
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post #1097 of 1472 Old 03-27-2014, 07:01 PM
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XLR, but I have a 2 channel pre which I use for music.


Thank you for the information.
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post #1098 of 1472 Old 03-27-2014, 08:54 PM - Thread Starter
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This isn't science, you know. I really don't see how you can say something sounds better than something else without actually listening to both of them. Deductive reasoning has absolutely no basis here. I don't know how you can express an opinion on something you have never heard.

The 105 and the 95 are not the same players. They use the same DAC chip, but that's where the similarities end. The chips are used differently in both players and the accompanying electronics are very different. So, any information you can draw from listening to the 95 cannot be applied to the 105. I know. I have owned and listened to both.

Being detailed is only one characteristic of a player. Frankly, I find digital sources can be too detailed, or what I call "hot." So, that is not what I want in my player.

Finally, my Lamptzator DAC sounds MUCH better than the SP3 for a digital source, TO ME. And, I love the SP3.

You listen to everything in 7.1 so how would the analog pass through even benefit you?

When the Oppo BDP-105 first appeared, I read numerous credible reviews who owned the BDP-95 that compared the two and all stated its sonic signature was the same. This is one instance where I had to rely on both deductive reasoning and logic. Its is, therefore, difficult for me to believe the 105 has a sonically better D/A converter than the SP3 especially when I consider the Stereophile review of the SP3.

I know what you mean about a sound being too detailed or hot; to me the SP3 tames or smoothens that hot sound making it pleasant and clean sounding.

RJ, has alreadly shown that a D/A converter can sound better than the SP3 as he has commented on it using Bryston's own BDP-2. However, since it is only two channel, I'll take Bryson's SP3 stock 7.1 sound any day over conventional 2 channel with the very best outboard D/A converter. Through the use of pschoacoustic manipulation, surround sound algorthyms places music in another dimension that far exceeds what can be accomplished in two channels. This is why I listen to most everything in 7.1. But, I would not mind finding an outboard unit that can play 7.1 with its analog out with its D/A converter exceeding the SP3. Thats how analog pass through would benefit me, in 7.1.
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post #1099 of 1472 Old 03-27-2014, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

When the Oppo BDP-105 first appeared, I read numerous credible reviews who owned the BDP-95 that compared the two and all stated its sonic signature was the same. This is one instance where I had to rely on both deductive reasoning and logic. Its is, therefore, difficult for me to believe the 105 has a sonically better D/A converter than the SP3 especially when I consider the Stereophile review of the SP3.

I feel that most reviews are influenced by the reviewers other components gbaby and most dont have the same setup so its a guide more than anything . Heres a couple from the oppo website you may not have seen that skews any concensus smile.gif

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/oppo-bdp-105-universal-blu-ray-player-and-dac/

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue71/brutus_awards.htm
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post #1100 of 1472 Old 03-27-2014, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by tikitom View Post

I can say that the Oppo 103D sounds a thousand times better than my Sony s790 and Panasonic blu-ray palyer I finally have the center sound stage I was looking for. I am thinking about upgrading to the Oppo 105D.Has anybody compared the Oppo 103D against the 105D for sound difference?

If you're using the HDMI out, and the D/A of the SP3, as I do, OPPO says there should be no difference in sound.

If you're using the analog outs, the 105 is supposedly better, as it's analog circuitry has been upgraded for that purpose.

I suppose that's subjective, and I haven't tried it personally.... rolleyes.gif

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post #1101 of 1472 Old 03-28-2014, 05:14 AM - Thread Starter
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I feel that most reviews are influenced by the reviewers other components gbaby and most dont have the same setup so its a guide more than anything . Heres a couple from the oppo website you may not have seen that skews any concensus smile.gif

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/oppo-bdp-105-universal-blu-ray-player-and-dac/

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue71/brutus_awards.htm

Thanks for the articles, but neither state the 105 has a better D/A converter than the SP3. In fact, there was a comment on one review that the 105 was lean sounding. But, regardless, if ones likes its sound, I'm sure it punts well out of its price range, it's just not sonically competitive with the SP3.
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post #1102 of 1472 Old 03-28-2014, 06:02 AM
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Thanks for the articles, but neither state the 105 has a better D/A converter than the SP3. In fact, there was a comment on one review that the 105 was lean sounding. But, regardless, if ones likes its sound, I'm sure it punts well out of its price range, it's just not sonically competitive with the SP3.

Again, you haven't heard it, but you're saying it's inferior.

I'm going to unsubscribe from this thread. I thought it would be a source of useful information about my SP3 and user experiences, updates, etc. But a majority of the posts are gbaby saying the SP3 is the greatest thing ever and telling others why it's better than things he's never heard (or why 7.1 is so great).

Is there a way to ignore 1 user? edit: I see the block function
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post #1103 of 1472 Old 03-28-2014, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Again, you haven't heard it, but you're saying it's inferior.

I'm going to unsubscribe from this thread. I thought it would be a source of useful information about my SP3 and user experiences, updates, etc. But a majority of the posts are gbaby saying the SP3 is the greatest thing ever and telling others why it's better than things he's never heard (or why 7.1 is so great).

Is there a way to ignore 1 user? edit: I see the block function

There is something wrong with you to allow my opinion on any equipment to make you want to "unsubscribe" to a thread.
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post #1104 of 1472 Old 03-28-2014, 07:11 AM
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There is something wrong with you to allow my opinion on any equipment to make you want to "unsubscribe" to a thread.

By "unsubscribe," I mean just that: unsubscribe from notifications about replies in this thread. I get an email whenever there's a reply here. Most responses are you basically telling everyone "you're wrong, the SP3 is the best!!" and I don't need the constant emails about that. So I unsubscribed from notifications for this thread.

Also, again, if you haven't heard something, you can't comment on how it sounds.
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post #1105 of 1472 Old 03-28-2014, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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By "unsubscribe," I mean just that: unsubscribe from notifications about replies in this thread. I get an email whenever there's a reply here. Most responses are you basically telling everyone "you're wrong, the SP3 is the best!!" and I don't need the constant emails about that. So I unsubscribed from notifications for this thread.

Also, again, if you haven't heard something, you can't comment on how it sounds.

Okay.
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post #1106 of 1472 Old 03-28-2014, 08:44 AM
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There is something wrong with you to allow my opinion on any equipment to make you want to "unsubscribe" to a thread.

The issue is that you bring too much subjectively to this forum. People come here to get information and all you want to say is the SP3 is the best unit ever and it bests anything else out there. You and I both know that isn't true. Most of us are here because we like the unit, but your biased comments don't add value. And you continually comment about stuff that you haven't ever heard.

What does it mean to have the "best" D/A? All that matters is how things are integrated and how it sounds. Also, once you synthesize everything into 7.1, who knows what is really influencing the sound. It would be one thing if you were listening to 2 channel audio and comparing output stages. How can you compare the 105 and the SP3 when you add all the digital processing on top?

David M.
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post #1107 of 1472 Old 03-28-2014, 09:21 AM
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I follow this thread because the SP3 is a possible upgrade to my current prepro. The Krell Foundation, upcoming Classe Sigma and the Primare SP33 are others. I have moved to 5 channel in anticipation knowing I may lose heights. Since I just bought a Halo A31 for my center and surrounds I am going to wait to see what else comes out later this year. I to am interested in getting observations, especially comparisons with other benchmarks.

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, DBP 2010, Samsung BD-C7900, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650. Sitting still CCM616, Kef...
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post #1108 of 1472 Old 03-28-2014, 09:54 AM
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Don't know when it will be released but NAD has the M17 coming. Also I read somewhere that WADIA will be releasing a surround processor.
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post #1109 of 1472 Old 03-28-2014, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by dminches View Post

The issue is that you bring too much subjectively to this forum. People come here to get information and all you want to say is the SP3 is the best unit ever and it bests anything else out there. You and I both know that isn't true. Most of us are here because we like the unit, but your biased comments don't add value. And you continually comment about stuff that you haven't ever heard.

What does it mean to have the "best" D/A? All that matters is how things are integrated and how it sounds. Also, once you synthesize everything into 7.1, who knows what is really influencing the sound. It would be one thing if you were listening to 2 channel audio and comparing output stages. How can you compare the 105 and the SP3 when you add all the digital processing on top?

The SP3 is the best for me in my setup. Everything in audio is subjective even what someone would call more "accurate" sounding. Now with the Oppo 105, my opinion on its sonic signature is based upon my experience with the analog outs of the 95 as well as what I have read regarding the similar sonic trait of the 95 and 105 from owners of both. Also, my zeal for the SP3 is really nothing for anyone to get upset about. Also, my zeal for 7.1 is nothing to get upset about. As a matter of fact, I strongly encourage you, and anyone else who owns the SP3, to at least try listening to redbook CD in 2.0 up converted to 7.1. I know that when I "syntesize everything into 7.1" the sound is being influenced severly. But, with principals of physcoacoustics at work, this infuence does not matter as long as it sounds good on the receiving end, and it truly does on the SP3. In fact in reading about pschoacoustics, the ear doen't like "accuracy." Sound is always manipulated whether in live performances using reverb or in a recording studio. I am still zealous in my opinion of the SP3 as it is the first time that I feel like my systems sounds right to me. If I could guess why it sounds so good to me, I'd have to say its because its so clean and charcterlless and allows the recording, itself, to shinel My opinion, however, is unworthy of anyone gettin upset or mad about. As a matter of fact, Im not the only participant on this thread, and others have info to offer that should not be shunned just because a person does not like my perspective. At the end of the day, my opinion does not matter. You either accept or reject it. Addino use to own the SP3, but later purchased the MX-151 because he liked it better. Was I upset? Please, don't you get upset because you have been here from the beginning.
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post #1110 of 1472 Old 03-28-2014, 10:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

I follow this thread because the SP3 is a possible upgrade to my current prepro. The Krell Foundation, upcoming Classe Sigma and the Primare SP33 are others. I have moved to 5 channel in anticipation knowing I may lose heights. Since I just bought a Halo A31 for my center and surrounds I am going to wait to see what else comes out later this year. I to am interested in getting observations, especially comparisons with other benchmarks.

I hope you keep following and at least at some point, audition the SP3 for yourself.
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