The Official Bryston SP3 Thread. - Page 4 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 1396 Old 01-30-2013, 04:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
moonhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: La Madera, New Mexico
Posts: 3,188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Moonhawk - I'm assuming you can set output and distance settings on the sub assigned to the Aux port, independent of the primary sub port. That should satisfy most needs I would think.

I would think so, but since I use a splitter, I can't say I've tried it. Maybe someone else can chime in. You certainly can set the distance for the main sub.

Come to think of it, I don't know that you can set a different distance for a second sub on the aux output. Maybe you could get an answer to that at audio circle on the Bryston forum?

______________________

__________

Dave

moonhawk is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 1396 Old 01-30-2013, 07:13 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
gbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,070
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoThere View Post

Deja hi, Bryston fans:

As noted in my previous post, I'm strongly considering the SP3 for my 7.2 system and have questions on two features that are key for me: dual subwoofers and speaker configurations. I've read the manual and this thread but could not find a discussion which helped me.

Can the SP3 handle multiple speaker configurations?

I have a 7.2 speaker system (detailed below) and would like to set up three configurations: two-channel (2.2) audio, 5.2 audio, 7.2 movies. I recall that the original Denon AVP-A1HD pre-pro used to allow for two surround configurations, but wonder if the SP3 will do so.

1. How would I connect and switch the SP3 to use my speaker system for 7.2 movies?

2. How would I connect and switch the SP3 to use my speaker system for two-channel audio with stereo (or dual) subwoofers?

2. Is it possible to switch out the surround L/R speakers and replace with them with the rear L/R speakers for 5.2 audio (i.e., replace the diffuse Paradigm ADP speakers with the point-source Paradigm S4 speakers)? If so, how would I switch the SP3 to perform this function?



FYI, here's the equipment:

Amplifiers
Bryston 6B-SST(C): front L/C/R
Bryston 4B-SST(C): surround L/C/R
Bryston 4B-SST(C): rear L/C/R

Speakers
Paradigm Reference Signature S8: fronts L/R
Paradigm Reference Signature C5: front C
Paradigm Reference Signature ADP: surrounds L/R
Paradigm Reference Signature S4: rears L/R
Velodyne DD15 subwoofers (2): subwoofers L/R

Digital Sources
Oppo BDP 105 (scheduled for purchase to replace BDP-83)
Bryston BDP-2 Digital Player (scheduled for purchase)
Bryston BDA-2 D/A Converter (scheduled for purchase)


Thanks very much, guys. I truly appreciate your expertise and advice.

RJ
Napa Valley

RJ, I know Big Hat indicated I might be your man to answer these questions, but I probably know less about the audio configuration than he does. I certainly don't know more, and the only advantage I have over Big Hat is being the first to purchase the SP3; thats it. With this in mind, I don't understand your needing stereo subs. Are your left and right front speakers full range (large) or are they limited range (small)? The last time I had a pre/pro with stereo subs was when I owned a Sony TA-E2000ESD. In any event, the SP3 can accommodate 2 subs either single ended or XLR. But, in using two, the sound may be mono as there is really no stereo channel separation in the low frequencies. The sound is omnidirectional. You have some great equipment, most of which I envy. But, to be honest, I work for a living and have my SP3 configured to my personal demands. I cannot with reasonable certainty answer your questions, but I think it would be a great opportunity to direct them to an authorized Bryston dealer and make them earn the commission. While I can tell you I have personally been in contact with Bryston engineers in the wee hours of tlhe night on weekends, I did not get that right until after I was a customer; that was when I purchased it. I hope you have some main full range speakers because you will never know how great the SP3 can sound with 2 channel music without them in my humble opinion.

P.S. RJ, I just looked up your speakers and all I can say is that you need to run down to a dealer and purchase the SP3 immediately. I can gurantee you will not be worrying about stereo subs. You can configure it for 5.2 for music and 7.2 for movies, but I use 7.1 for everything except critical 2 channel listening. I can tell you that through the SP3, 5.1 converted to 7.1 is a whole new level of listening.
gbaby is offline  
post #93 of 1396 Old 02-01-2013, 02:10 PM
Member
 
SoThere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Whiney Napa Valley
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Thanks for your replies, gbaby, Tony, Dave, and Matt:

I've taken your advice and posted on AudioCircle. This elicited several questions in that forum on my query about using multiple subs with the SP3. The illustrious James Tanner suggested that Stan at Bryston would be the person to contact, and it looks like a couple of us will do so. When I receive a reply, I'll post it here, as well as on the AudioCircle SP3 thread.

Thanks again for your cogent comments. I understand that bass at the frequencies my Velodynes handle is nondirectional, but my main concern is being able to set separate distances, EQ the subs accurately (the Digital Drive Velodyne DD15s have an effective EQ feature), and cross over to my Paradigm S8 towers at an apt frequency (the S8s claim a response of ±2 dB from 39 Hz - 45 kHz; the Velodyne's frequency response is 14.6-120 Hz ±3 dB). A main reason I have two subs is to smooth out room interactions and response.

Matt, I should add to my reply on Bryston power amps that I came to them after having a couple of McIntosh amps (and preamps), the MC2105 and MC2002, both fine solid-state power amps; the latter drove Apogee Duetta Signatures, quite revealing panel speakers. The Mac amps provided a lush yet detailed listening experience, a bit tube-like. The Brystons seem to me more revealing and more accurate; they are not as dark or warm as the Macs, but neither are they strident or sharp. They have superb clarity, incredible power reserves, and more slam than any amps I've owned, and I've never heard them clip or distort.

Alas, in the Bay Area it's very difficult to find a Bryston dealer that has more than one or two products, and those on static display. From our home, it's a 120-200 mile round trip to the high-end dealers. Thus, there's not really any effective local dealer support. I ended up buying my three Bryston power amps from authorized dealers out of my area, when I was traveling, as they were far more helpful than anyone local.

Thanks again, gents, and cheerio,

RJ

Eschew obfuscation.
SoThere is offline  
post #94 of 1396 Old 02-01-2013, 04:08 PM
Member
 
SoThere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Whiney Napa Valley
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Deja halloo, gents:

As noted earlier, I've emailed Stan at Bryston on running two subwoofers from the SP3. When I receive his reply, I'll post it, with the hope that it will be useful to you.

In case my situation may be similar to yours and helpful to you, here's some info on my subs that I believe will let me use the SP3's Aux-L and Aux-R outputs, rather than the Sub jacks. Isn't it amazing how rereading the user manual will unearth key information forgotten several years after installing the gear? wink.gif

My Velodyne DD15 subs prefer to use their digital built-in crossovers to accept a full-range signal; they can also use a filtered LFE/Sub output by defeating each sub's internal low-pass crossover. Also, to connect two or more subs, there is a daisy-chain option that presents multiple subs to the processor as one unit, and directs commands, such as volume, through the primary sub.

However, there seem to me to be significant advantages in running the subs separately, through the Aux-L and Aux-R outputs. First, as you've noted, the distance between each sub and the primary listening spot is different. Also, the subs each have eight-band auto-EQ (with manual parametric tweaking), and this should result in a smoother response than I've been able to achieve with them in their present configuration.


Game on,

RJ

Eschew obfuscation.
SoThere is offline  
post #95 of 1396 Old 02-01-2013, 07:55 PM
Senior Member
 
BigHat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Arlington, VA 22204
Posts: 377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
RJ,
Thank you for the additional info on the Bryston amps. I'm using the BelCanto Rev 1000s (tripath / Class D) but aren't really happy with them so this is VERY useful info.
BigHat is offline  
post #96 of 1396 Old 02-04-2013, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
gbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,070
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 33
RJ, I tlhink you are wanting to use two subs for the right reason, i.e., to smooth out the bass response in your room. I have a Velodyne HGS-18 in a 19x13 room, and I find the use of one sub more than enough. I also have the Velodyne SMS-1 equalitzer, but I do not use it since I purchased the SP3. I have a Velodyne HGS-12 in my bedroom, and considered putting it in the room with the HGS-18, but it may be overkill. In any event, I can recommmend you purchase the Bryston SP3 blindly, and I would not be concerned if the two sub inputs were stereo as there is no meaningful stereo in the low frequencies. You've got killer amps, speakers and sub, and the SP3 will be iceing on he cake. Let us know your decision.
gbaby is offline  
post #97 of 1396 Old 02-04-2013, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
gbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,070
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHat View Post

RJ,
Thank you for the additional info on the Bryston amps. I'm using the BelCanto Rev 1000s (tripath / Class D) but aren't really happy with them so this is VERY useful info.

Big Hat, while I have never read anything good about Class D amps (except they run cool), what is it about the sound of the Belcanto Rev 1000 that you don't like?
gbaby is offline  
post #98 of 1396 Old 02-04-2013, 05:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
moonhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: La Madera, New Mexico
Posts: 3,188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoThere View Post

Deja halloo, gents:

As noted earlier, I've emailed Stan at Bryston on running two subwoofers from the SP3. When I receive his reply, I'll post it, with the hope that it will be useful to you.

In case my situation may be similar to yours and helpful to you, here's some info on my subs that I believe will let me use the SP3's Aux-L and Aux-R outputs, rather than the Sub jacks. Isn't it amazing how rereading the user manual will unearth key information forgotten several years after installing the gear? wink.gif

My Velodyne DD15 subs prefer to use their digital built-in crossovers to accept a full-range signal; they can also use a filtered LFE/Sub output by defeating each sub's internal low-pass crossover. Also, to connect two or more subs, there is a daisy-chain option that presents multiple subs to the processor as one unit, and directs commands, such as volume, through the primary sub.

However, there seem to me to be significant advantages in running the subs separately, through the Aux-L and Aux-R outputs. First, as you've noted, the distance between each sub and the primary listening spot is different. Also, the subs each have eight-band auto-EQ (with manual parametric tweaking), and this should result in a smoother response than I've been able to achieve with them in their present configuration.


Game on,

RJ

Do let us know what you find out. I'm interested in whether you can set the dstances independently with two subs, whether Stereo or Mono.

I prefer mono, because you are more likely to even out room nodes if they are both getting the identical signal, but responding differently to the room, cancelling out each other's issues, so to speak.

But the distance issue is the downside of that.

______________________

__________

Dave

moonhawk is online now  
post #99 of 1396 Old 02-05-2013, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
gbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,070
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

Do let us know what you find out. I'm interested in whether you can set the dstances independently with two subs, whether Stereo or Mono.

I prefer mono, because you are more likely to even out room nodes if they are both getting the identical signal, but responding differently to the room, cancelling out each other's issues, so to speak.

But the distance issue is the downside of that.

At least the SP3 can set different crossovver for every input both digital and HDMI so in effect, you can have 16 different crossover settings. As far as the distance setting for two subs, you can use the volume on the sub to regulate it.
gbaby is offline  
post #100 of 1396 Old 02-05-2013, 09:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
moonhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: La Madera, New Mexico
Posts: 3,188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

At least the SP3 can set different crossovver for every input both digital and HDMI so in effect, you can have 16 different crossover settings. As far as the distance setting for two subs, you can use the volume on the sub to regulate it.

Right. But not for distance or phase.

______________________

__________

Dave

moonhawk is online now  
post #101 of 1396 Old 02-05-2013, 10:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
adidino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,199
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

Right. But not for distance or phase.

You lost me on that one. If I wanted to leverage one of the two aux outoputs for a second sub, I would assume I should be able to set distance for that speaker or sub. Otherwise, what would be the point of it?
adidino is offline  
post #102 of 1396 Old 02-05-2013, 11:23 AM
Senior Member
 
BigHat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Arlington, VA 22204
Posts: 377
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

Big Hat, while I have never read anything good about Class D amps (except they run cool), what is it about the sound of the Belcanto Rev 1000 that you don't like?

I guess I should be careful stating such things. I could have easily blamed the BelCanto amps for issues I resolved by replacing the Lex MC-12 with the SP3. I also may be so impressed with the Bryston, that I assume similar gains will be made with their amps.
I started with a Bel Canto Evo6. Ran it in bridged 3 channel mode. Lost two channels one day. Fuse blew and then blew again. Sent it in for repair and was told they no longer use those circuits. I elected to have them just remove it and ran it as my two channel rear amp. A year later another rail failed and I threw it in the trash. I had purchased three mono Ref 1000s for the front before that. and pulled out an John Curl Parasound 2-ch amp I wasn't using for the rears. I guess the Ref 1000s sound okay. If I'm not swapping out gear all the time ( I used to review gear) I can grow accustomed to my system and sort of take it for granted. I don't have any friends that care about A/V like I do, so I'm not doing much critical listening away from my house. BC came out with an outrageously priced upgrade for the Ref 1000s that was hyped so much I felt like I had an inferior product. My dealer even discouraged me from doing the upgrade stating it was a joke to pay so much for such a minor improvement.
Bottom line is it's been awhile (8 years) since I used anything but this class of amp (at home) and when I added them to my system I was changing source components and speakers too, so hard to assess the full impact of any one piece. It would be unfair to say they suck and many reviewers adore them, but I'd like to try something else right now in more of a traditional AB design.
BigHat is offline  
post #103 of 1396 Old 02-05-2013, 10:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
moonhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: La Madera, New Mexico
Posts: 3,188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

You lost me on that one. If I wanted to leverage one of the two aux outoputs for a second sub, I would assume I should be able to set distance for that speaker or sub. Otherwise, what would be the point of it?

I was only saying nobody seems to know whether or not you can set separate distances for a second sub because no one here has tried it, apparently.

______________________

__________

Dave

moonhawk is online now  
post #104 of 1396 Old 02-06-2013, 05:05 AM
AVS Special Member
 
adidino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,199
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

I was only saying nobody seems to know whether or not you can set separate distances for a second sub because no one here has tried it, apparently.

Checked with Bryston on this. Doesn't look like it's possible. I found that pretty odd but it is what it is. Not a deal breaker for me just would have been nice.

Anyway, my SP3 in on the way. smile.gif

Long waiting period but hopefully worth it. Coming from an SSP800 ,my expectations are high. The Classe is hard to beat.
adidino is offline  
post #105 of 1396 Old 02-06-2013, 05:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jima4a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 1,425
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Check with Bryston on this. Doesn't look like it's possible. I found that pretty odd but it is what it is. Not a deal breaker for me just would have been nice.

Anyway, my SP3 in on the way. smile.gif

Long waiting period but hopefully worth it. Coming from an SSP800 ,my expectations are high. The Classe is hard to beat.
Look forward to your impressions! Have heard the SP3 but not the SP800.

Main Kef: Reference 205/2 & 202/2c, Surrounds: Kef XQ40, Velodyne Optimum 12, Integra DHC 80.3, Oppo BDP-103, Bryston 4Bsst2, Parasound Halo A31. Second B&W: 685 (3), CCM618, Def Tech Powerfield 1500, Onkyo TX-NR1008, DBP 2010, Samsung BD-C7900, Zone 2 Klipsch AW650. Sitting still CCM616, Kef...
jima4a is online now  
post #106 of 1396 Old 02-06-2013, 08:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
moonhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: La Madera, New Mexico
Posts: 3,188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Check with Bryston on this. Doesn't look like it's possible. I found that pretty odd but it is what it is. Not a deal breaker for me just would have been nice.

Anyway, my SP3 in on the way. smile.gif

Long waiting period but hopefully worth it. Coming from an SSP800 ,my expectations are high. The Classe is hard to beat.

Congratulations, Tony! Let us know how you like it.

My workaround for the two subs is to try to find different ways to set the two subs the same distance from your sweet spot, but in different arrangements to see wht works best. Not always easy to do, but there it is. smile.gif

______________________

__________

Dave

moonhawk is online now  
post #107 of 1396 Old 02-06-2013, 08:08 AM
Member
 
SoThere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Whiney Napa Valley
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Halloo, gents:

My February 1st email to Stan Bleszynski of Bryston asked about setting separate subwoofer distances. I'll report as soon as I receive his reply.

Cheerio,

RJ

Eschew obfuscation.
SoThere is offline  
post #108 of 1396 Old 02-06-2013, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
gbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,070
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

Right. But not for distance or phase.

My thinking was that the distance setting is used to control the volume output of the sub. Once you set one sub, perhaps you can set the second sub manually by ear. As far as phasing, most subs have phase setting, too.
gbaby is offline  
post #109 of 1396 Old 02-06-2013, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
gbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,070
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

Right. But not for distance or phase.

My thinking was that the distance setting is used to control the volume output of the sub. Once you set one sub, perhaps you can set the second sub manually by ear. As far as phasing, most subs have phase setting, too.
gbaby is offline  
post #110 of 1396 Old 02-06-2013, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
gbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,070
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonhawk View Post

Right. But not for distance or phase.

My thinking was that the distance setting is used to control the volume output of the sub. Once you set one sub, perhaps you can set the second sub manually by ear. As far as phasing, most subs have phase setting, too.
gbaby is offline  
post #111 of 1396 Old 02-06-2013, 05:25 PM
AVS Special Member
 
moonhawk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: La Madera, New Mexico
Posts: 3,188
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

My thinking was that the distance setting is used to control the volume output of the sub. Once you set one sub, perhaps you can set the second sub manually by ear. As far as phasing, most subs have phase setting, too.

Hi gbaby.

My sub has only 0 and 180, which doesn't do much for aligning phase. But, considering the wavelength of tones below 80 Hz, it's probably not all that critical.

But I do try to set my subs equidistant from the sweet spot.

______________________

__________

Dave

moonhawk is online now  
post #112 of 1396 Old 02-06-2013, 05:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
adidino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,199
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

My thinking was that the distance setting is used to control the volume output of the sub. Once you set one sub, perhaps you can set the second sub manually by ear. As far as phasing, most subs have phase setting, too.

Distance setting is for phase and time alignment to the listening position.
adidino is offline  
post #113 of 1396 Old 02-08-2013, 08:56 AM
Member
 
SoThere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Whiney Napa Valley
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
What ho, gents:

As promised, here's the reply I just received from Stan at Bryston. He confirmed that it is not possible to set separate subwoofer distances when using the SP3's Aux-L/Aux-R outputs. As Tony (addino) mentioned, this is not a deal-breaker, but it does present some time-alignment issues and will require significant tweaking of the subs. In case it may be helpful to you, I've pasted in my query to Stan following his reply (and have attached a PDF of germane screenshots from my Velodyne subwoofers' software).

Cheerio,

RJ


Stan's Reply

"I think, using Aux-L and Aux -R outputs to drive your two subwoofers will fulfill your goals 1-4. Aux-L and R contain downmixed spectrum from all the source channels in a multichannel stream, including the LFE. It will work equally well if the original stream is 2.0 or 2.1, 5.1 or 7.1. You have to enable a lowpass filter in your suboofers to be close to your main speaker's cutoff (about 39Hz). A time delay (speaker distances) cannot be independently set for the Aux-L and Aux-R.

Since your main speakers can reproduce bass from 39Hz up, you could set SP3 cutoff frequency at 40Hz and set SPEAKER SIZE as Small, or set them as Large and disregard the SP3 cutoff frequency setup. The only difference is that in the first case all bass below 40Hz plus LFE below 40Hz will be routed to the Subwoofer output of SP3 (which you probably won't use anyway), while in the second case only LFE will be routed to the Subwoofer output. In either case Aux-L and Aux-R will carry the entire spectrum, so there is no difference if you use only Aux-L,R to drive the subs.

There is a difference in the way bass contents of the L,R,C,Ls,Rs,Rb,Lb channels is handled as opposed to the bass content of LFE channel.

Small
In the first case (Small) your main speakers will receive the portion of the bass from L,R,C,Ls,Rs,Rb,Lb above the cutoff frequency that you have set (40Hz) but none of the LFE, LFE will be all routed to the Sub only, along with the other bass below 40Hz, and all this will also be downmixed into Aux-L,R as well.

Large
In the second case (Large) , All bass contents of the L,R,C,Ls,Rs,Rb,Lb channels will go through your Large speakers, regardless of the cutoff frequency set in SP3, while only all LFE will go through the subwoofer SP3 output (and will also be downmixed through Aux-L,R)."

________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

My Query

I am writing on using two subwoofers with the SP3. I've read the manual but need your expertise and advice. A list of my gear appears below this message. I apologize for the length of this email; my subwoofers do present some perhaps unusual options.

The goal
I want to enable stereo (or dual) subwoofer outputs (my subs are connected with in-wall single-ended RCA cables that I cannot change). As noted below, my subs can accept a full-range signal or an LFE signal; they can also be daisy-chained, to act as one sub. (I realize that at the lower frequencies, there is no stereo separation.)

1. How would I connect and switch the SP3 to use two subs when playing two-channel audio
2. How would I connect and switch the SP3 to use two subs when playing multi-channel audio
3. How would I connect and switch the SP3 to use two subs for LFE when playing multichannel movies?
4. Can I set the distance for each subwoofer individually?

The question
Can I use the SP3's L-Aux and R-Aux outputs to achieve my four goals above? If not, is there another way to accomplish my goals?

Pertinent Information
My Velodyne subs claim a frequency response of 14.6-120 Hz ± 3db, and my Paradigm S8 towers claim a response of 39 Hz - 45 kHz ± 2db. The subs have an eight-band auto and manual parametric EQ feature (screenshots below) that lets one adjust or bypass the low-pass crossover (high-pass is fixed at 80 Hz). The subs each have their own volume control. Velodyne's software will let me EQ each sub separately.

Also, the Velodyne DD15 prefers to use its internal crossovers rather than LFE output, but it will work with LFE if the low-pass crossover is defeated. Here are apt excerpts from the manual.


A Word About Subwoofer Outputs
The Velodyne subwoofer is designed to operate using the full range audio signal for input when using the digital built-in crossover. Most processors/receivers have a “subwoofer out” jack that is internally filtered and designed to be used with a conventional amplifier and speaker. In some rare cases, combining both an external crossover and the one internal to the subwoofer may result in low output and increased noise. In these installations you may need to bypass the internal crossover in either the processor or Velodyne subwoofer. In some installations, simply setting one crossover to a higher frequency (such as 120Hz) will restore maximum performance. To bypass the subwoofer’s internal crossover when the unit is being fed a low pass signal from another crossover, refer to the SeTUP instructions at step 14 (page 24).


Page 24:
NOTE: Some receivers/processors supply a signal that is already crossed over – i.e. just the bass frequencies. If this is the case, you will want to defeat the subwoofer’s low pass crossover. To defeat the low pass crossover, press the SelecT key, then the ReSeT key. The following screen appears:
[This screen appears in the attached PDF.]

Finally, if only one sub output is available from the SP3, I can daisy-chain the subs to act as one.

A Word About Connecting More Than One Subwoofer
If you are connecting more than one dd subwoofer to your system, you will connect them together in a “daisy- chain.” choose one sub for all the connections described below (we’ll call this the “master” sub), and then connect an RCA jack from the THRU RCA jacks of the “primary” to the input jacks of the “slave” sub. You will also need to obtain a “mouse extension” serial cable (available at any computer store, from your Authorized Velodyne dealer, or from Velodyne directly) and connect the RS-232 OUT port of the primary sub to the RS-232 In port of the secondary sub. Then, all runtime commands directed at the primary sub (such as volume) will be communicated to the secondary sub automatically through the serial cable. If you have more than two subs in your setup, simply continue the daisy chain from the secondary sub to the next sub in the line (using both RcA and serial connections) and so on.



I very much appreciate your help, Mr. Bleszynski. I've been waiting a long time for the SP3 and am thrilled by its possibilities.


Amplifiers
Bryston 6B-SST(C) amp: front L/C/R
Bryston 4B-SST(C) amp: surround L/C/R
Bryston 4B-SST(C) amp: rear L/C/R

Speakers
Paradigm Reference Signature S8: fronts L/R
Paradigm Reference Signature C5: front C
Paradigm Reference Signature ADP: surrounds L/R
Paradigm Reference Signature S4: rears L/R
Velodyne DD15 subwoofers (2): subwoofers L/R


Velodyne DD 2.2. Screenshots.pdf 435k .pdf file
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Velodyne DD 2.2. Screenshots.pdf (434.6 KB, 7 views)

Eschew obfuscation.
SoThere is offline  
post #114 of 1396 Old 02-10-2013, 11:55 AM
Newbie
 
muski's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
"A time delay (speaker distances) cannot be independently set for the Aux-L and Aux-R."

I'm not quite clear on this. Does he mean that you can't set a time-delay/distance at all for Aux-L and Aux-R? Or does he mean you can only set one distance for both channels? If it's the latter, then I suppose if the two subs are equidistant from the primary listening spot (which is likely), you're ok. If it's the former, then isn't this a deal breaker? Or is there some way to do this in the Velodyne sub?
muski is offline  
post #115 of 1396 Old 02-10-2013, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
gbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,070
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Has anyone else noticed how well music sounds playing Amazon iClouds through the SP3? I have purchased 100s of CDs through Amazon and only recently discovered that most of them are in their IClouds for free. I have downloaded Amazon's iCloud playe to my IPad 3, and now I find myself constantly listening to my iCloud music from Amazon through the SP3. I play it using the random setting and I could not listen to a radio station with better programmming as it plays all the music that I enjoy. It is quite convenient especially when just working around the house. cool.gif
gbaby is offline  
post #116 of 1396 Old 02-10-2013, 12:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
adidino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,199
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by muski View Post

"A time delay (speaker distances) cannot be independently set for the Aux-L and Aux-R."

I'm not quite clear on this. Does he mean that you can't set a time-delay/distance at all for Aux-L and Aux-R? Or does he mean you can only set one distance for both channels? If it's the latter, then I suppose if the two subs are equidistant from the primary listening spot (which is likely), you're ok. If it's the former, then isn't this a deal breaker? Or is there some way to do this in the Velodyne sub?

You do it by using the phase control on your sub. Velo sub has one as well as most subs.
adidino is offline  
post #117 of 1396 Old 02-10-2013, 03:32 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
gbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,070
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

You do it by using the phase control on your sub. Velo sub has one as well as most subs.

While I own two Velondyne subs, I never knew what "phase" controlled. I guess if you use just one sub and set your crossover and distance by the processor, phase is not an issue, correct?
gbaby is offline  
post #118 of 1396 Old 02-10-2013, 04:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
adidino's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 4,199
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

While I own two Velondyne subs, I never knew what "phase" controlled. I guess if you use just one sub and set your crossover and distance by the processor, phase is not an issue, correct?

Normally, you do not need to use the phase control for a single sub when using the distance setting for speakers and subs as the processor will handle arrival times to the listening position. However, when slaving subs, phase control can be important depending on the location of your additional subs. This is where multiple sub outputs with distance and output control from the processor is desired.

The other option is the DSpeaker anti-mode 2.0 dual core which will handle 2 subs independently. This seems to be the best option for dual subs.
adidino is offline  
post #119 of 1396 Old 02-10-2013, 08:48 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
gbaby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,070
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Liked: 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by adidino View Post

Normally, you do not need to use the phase control for a single sub when using the distance setting for speakers and subs as the processor will handle arrival times to the listening position. However, when slaving subs, phase control can be important depending on the location of your additional subs. This is where multiple sub outputs with distance and output control from the processor is desired.

The other option is the DSpeaker anti-mode 2.0 dual core which will handle 2 subs independently. This seems to be the best option for dual subs.

With those high end Velodyne subs, RJ should be alright; especially using the SP3.wink.gif The Velodyne subs have multiple connection options including crossover, hi and low pass filter and multiple XLR inputs as well as phase control.
gbaby is offline  
post #120 of 1396 Old 02-11-2013, 01:48 PM
Member
 
SoThere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Whiney Napa Valley
Posts: 139
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Halloo, gents:

Thanks for your kind responses to my queries and postings on running two subs with the SP3. I appreciate the friendliness and generosity of those on this forum and look forward to reading your posts.

Like many of you, perhaps, I'm using one system for audio and video. Hence, I'm interested in setting two audio configurations: one for music and one for movies. In essence, I want to switch out the diffuse surround speakers in our 7.2 system and steer surround channels to our rear speakers for music sources mixed for 5.1 surround (such as SACDs and DVD-As).

In hopes that it may be useful to you, here's my email conversation with Stan at Bryston on this matter:

My Initial Question
For music, is it possible to switch out the LS/RS speakers and configure a 5.2 system: L/C/R + LB/RB? What I'm looking for is a point source surround rather than the diffuse surround of LS/LR.

Stan's Reply
It should work. If you declare Ls,Rs = NONE, and Lb,Rb= 2 Small or 2 Large depending on your rear speaker's bass capability, <=30Hz is considered Large, >=60Hz Small. 39Hz would probably work better with Large settings. Side surrounds will be mixed into back speakers, and Aux-R,L will carry a downmix of everything. Similarly, if you set any other speaker to NONE, its content will me distributed into other existing speakers.

My Follow-Up
Can I save two configurations, one for music (5.2) and one for movies (7.2), or would I need to reconfigure each time I switch from music to movies?

Stan's Reply
No, but you can assign different speaker configuration to different source buttons. For example you can assign 5.1 to DVD source and 7.1 to CBL/SAT source, then you can feed DVD from coaxial (SPDIF) output and CBL/SAT from the HDMI output of the same player. Then, you should set up MISCELLANOUS-->HDMI select = STICKY (you need to scroll down, then unlock hidden menus with Code 222). The "sticky" option will make the last selected video signal to stay on (HDMI input 2 = "CBL/SAT") while you select DVD source on SPDIF for audio, from the same player. This way you can watch video signal from the player in both cases.

My Follow-Up
I'll use an Oppo BDP-105 (which has two HDMI outputs as well as SPDIF)

Stan's Reply
OK, then the easiest is to feed one HDMI output to one source and the other to the second source. You don't then need to set the "Sticky" option.


I hope this information is useful to you.

Cheerio,

RJ

Eschew obfuscation.
SoThere is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Arcam

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off