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post #331 of 1918 Old 10-20-2012, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

there are 4 parts to your post - perceived volume, sub output, compression & airplay.
before I comment on volume & impressions of sound, let's try to tackle the sub issue 1st. I'd like to ask what speakers are you using for all channels. what sub? what's the low freq rating for your fronts and...
if you truly heard nothing from your sub, are you sure you plugged it into the correct jack? wink.gif at least 2 posters with new SC models plugged the sub into the wrong jack, the one on the left side for Zone 2. the correct one(s) are in the middle of the rear panel in the "preamp out" section.
in general, unless your fronts truly are capable of reproducing bass down to ~20 Hz or mid 20's, you should set them to Small & let the sub do the work. Almost everyone in this forum will tell you that. Even if they are that capable and that's rare, you are still probably better off setting them to Small for HT use.
plus, maybe there isn't that much LFE (low freq effect) channel activity in that title...did you try an action/scifi movie known for robust bass effects & ultra low bass? or only this 1?
post back & we'll go from there

I honestly dont know my speakers that well 1991 mirage midline towers. In any case I will try different setup, I did set up everything auto with the mic. As far as sub, can I assume if I hear the rumble in speaker setup it is in the right jack? The darn thing has so many wires now its hard to pull out the receiver.

I do greatly appreciate your response. I will play with things more today. I did put in top rated transformers dark side and had the thing cranked I fact I think volume was up to +4 out of 12 and even heard some distortion of my center channel speaker, and still it was far from ear melting. something just seems awry.

Is it possible OPTIMUM mode is incorrect? again I have a 7.1 system. I think my mirage speakers are fairly efficient 89 or 90. REst of surrounds are mid size energy speakers.
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post #332 of 1918 Old 10-20-2012, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by symphx View Post

I honestly dont know my speakers that well 1991 mirage midline towers. In any case I will try different setup, I did set up everything auto with the mic. As far as sub, can I assume if I hear the rumble in speaker setup it is in the right jack? The darn thing has so many wires now its hard to pull out the receiver.
I do greatly appreciate your response. I will play with things more today. I did put in top rated transformers dark side and had the thing cranked I fact I think volume was up to +4 out of 12 and even heard some distortion of my center channel speaker, and still it was far from ear melting. something just seems awry.
Is it possible OPTIMUM mode is incorrect? again I have a 7.1 system. I think my mirage speakers are fairly efficient 89 or 90. REst of surrounds are mid size energy speakers.

Your system should blow the house down if the setup was done right. I would recheck everything from the speakers, make sure everything is in the right input and recheck everything in the setup menu.

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post #333 of 1918 Old 10-20-2012, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by CHASLS2 View Post

Your system should blow the house down if the setup was done right. I would recheck everything from the speakers, make sure everything is in the right input and recheck everything in the setup menu.

you would think! well I know all the speakers are attached because the test signals are louuuuuuuuuuuuud. any suggestions on the best mode to watch a bd in? maybe Im missing something, is auto/optimum truly optimum?
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post #334 of 1918 Old 10-20-2012, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by symphx View Post

Is it possible OPTIMUM mode is incorrect? again I have a 7.1 system. I think my mirage speakers are fairly efficient 89 or 90. REst of surrounds are mid size energy speakers.

Hmm...IIRC, the old Mirages were bipolar planar-looking but maybe with cone speakers on each side (?).

Start with basics:

1. make sure your Mirages are several feet from the front wall. If you have them placed too close, you WILL get peaks & nulls from wave cancellation and most likely less output than if you had them 3-5 ft from the wall. if you've owned these for years, you probably know this already but just in case smile.gif

2. make sure in the Speaker Setup menu that you see Subwoofer as Yes. If it produced test tones then it should be Yes. If it didn't produce test tones, check the sub cable. make sure its OK & RCA connection not shorting out. In swapping gear, I've encountered a loose connection on my original sub cable and it grounded out and I didn't get any sound from the sub until I jiggled & re-seated it.

check speaker settings & suggest re-doing MCACC:

1. put the mic on a tripod, stand or on a seat back at the main listening position, NOT directly in front of & below the seat back to prevent reflected sound from giving falsely high levels. IOW, don't sit it on the seat itself. Don't try to hold it while running MCACC - you cannot hold it still or level plus your head would reflect sound back into it and mess up measured levels. Believe or not, someone posted they did it that way & wasn't happy with the results wink.gif

2. aim the mic up to the ceiling, parallel to the floor so the dimpled mic part is aimed straight up, not tilted forward or backwards

3. If possible, try to remove yourself from the room or at least the listening area, using the remote to control the receiver. I've seen just my presence near the mic alters the bass response.

4. If your sub has a volume control, adjust so that the Pioneer sets the sub channel level as close to 0.0 dB as possible. It's OK if it's not 0. And if the receiver sets it too a large positive or a large negative number, say +9 or -9 dB, that is right at the adjustment limit, so altering the sub volume on the sub itself will help the receiver bring the level closer to its target level without drastic cut or boost.

5. you should have at least 1 MCACC mode, Symmetry, as M1 Memory Preset. If you ran the full calibration, you should have all 3 as presets: Symmetry, All Channels Adjust & Front Aligned. The last 2 names are what Pioneer used to call them, so the new receiver may have slightly different naming. Symmetry will be your default. But make sure you have it selected in the MCACC menu and not accidentally turned off. If it's off, then the channel levels may be less & volume may need turned up.

6. suggest running your Mirages as Small, crossover at 80 Hz to start with, even if MCACC sets them to Large, change to Small. Try this before deciding to leave as Large. Small usually works the best for most HT speaker setups, unless your speakers have 10-12" woofers, and if I remember old Mirages right, they don't wink.gif

I've found Optimum to work well to enhance some older DVD encodes with even old Dolby Prologic Surround and has helped some older 5.1 Dolby Digital tracks . On some movies, it seemed to increase the surround discreteness and enhance the spread of center across the front instead of just a point source. I have NOT found it to interfere with or reduce perceived bass or sub output. Or substantially effect overall volume, if anything it seemed to make my center louder.

BUT in most cases, and definitely for all Blu-ray, I would try one of these instead, at least to start with:

Direct - straight processing of whatever is on the disc (if disc is 5.1 you won't get any sound from the rears)

Dolby ProLogic IIx Movie (adds the rears) - but on some DTS-Master Audio tracks you may not be able to add PLIIx, this is player dependent, how it handles DTS-MA tracks. Older Pioneers and Panasonics, for example, duplicated the side surrounds into the rears to simulate 7.1. so you couldn't add PLIIx. The Oppo players and others set to decode DTS-MA as PCM will allow adding PLIIx in the receiver. You'll have to try this and see what works or doesn't work.

DTS Neo X

U may like the effect Optimum has but my philosophy is always start with what's on the disc, and add processing to taste.
BTW - make sure you are selecting the correct audio track in the disc setup menu. This is no doubt old news to you but some new folks to this game have thought the receiver automatically picks the track from the disc smile.gif They just didn't know that you had to select DTS-Master Audio or TrueHD from the list, so were getting plain jane Dolby Digital or worse, just Dolby Stereo, instead. So I bring it up just in case...hopefully, you don't take offense I mention it wink.gif

Ignore the so called advanced surround modes completely, all they do is add artificial reverb and can make a great recording sound like a tin can.

Operating the receiver in the + zone on volume should not be needed. I normally listen @ -12 to -4 depending on movie, music, recording or mood wink.gif But I also have very inefficient large planar speakers that are also 4 ohms, Magnepans, so in order to get high volume levels I need to turn them up higher than someone with say DefTechs, Klipsh, Polks, etc.

my room size is 13.5 X 22 X 9 so not much different than yours. I watch/listen from ~11 ft from the plane of the fronts.

Each gen of Pioneer's seems to get slightly different MCACC tuning. For example, Pioneer's 1st Ice amp receiver, the SC-09, set all of my channel levels 6 dB LOWER than the VSX-59Txi, which resulted in better integration of the fronts & center but required me to set the volume knob 6 dB's more to get the same loudness. No big deal.

The new SC-68 seems to set the levels a little differently than the SC-09 did, on the center & surrounds. If anything I don't have to turn the SC-68 up as much as the SC-09 to achieve the same subjective volume. I can run - 9 & -8 db where I may have used -6 or -5 on the 09.

If you are comparing the volume settings between the Onkyo & Pioneer, don't smile.gif They're relative, not absolute, and cannot be compared between companies.

In older listening comparisons I have done with all the Pioneer true flagship receivers I have owned, the VSX-49txi, 59txi, & SC-09, from > 0 dB to would be very loud and I only listened in that area when I was in Pure Direct mode, with all MCACC turned off, so to compare with no processing, adjusted preamp levels to hear the impact of various changes I made to the system. At no time would I ever need to listen to a movie or music normally that way with MCACC On. On rare occasions, I'd turn it up to -2 or -1 but that only when I wanted to blow out the sound from the movie and actually blew my center's tweeter fuse once doing this once redface.gif

So, IMO, a + dB volume setting shouldn't be a normal everyday thing that you would need to do. Close to 0 I can believe for some situations but not > 0 for normal listening.

If at the end, you can't get the level you want w/o going to the + side, I'd consider talking to your dealer about swapping for another one - if you bought it from a local dealer or one that you've done business with, even BB/Magnolia, should let you return within 30 days. You could have a defective mic but I suspect it's a setup issue.

I may have more ideas depending on what results you get from checking & changing setup.

keep us posted.

Steve
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post #335 of 1918 Old 10-20-2012, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by symphx View Post

you would think! well I know all the speakers are attached because the test signals are louuuuuuuuuuuuud. any suggestions on the best mode to watch a bd in? maybe Im missing something, is auto/optimum truly optimum?

I never used optimum on my SC35 or my new SC 61, don't even know if i have a optimum setting.

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^^
you do wink.gif

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post #337 of 1918 Old 10-20-2012, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Oldemar View Post

Has anyone tried playing music files (flac, mp3, etc) from usb or DLNA?
Any idea if the transition from track to track is seamless?
Many AVRs seem to add a gap or silence between tracks.

I know you've asked this twice smile.gif and I'm not the best person to address questions on computer based audio files. I don't pursue using a PC or media servers as playback devices, never have. But I do use itunes to rip CD's for putting on ipod/iphone. And I did try out the USB-DAC port with my laptop with several apple mp4 rips from itunes & several wav rips played back using WMP11. I can't say I noticed any big issue with gaps but I really wasn't paying particular attention for them either. To me, playback was OK. Sorry, I'd be happy to re-check but it won't be until end of the coming week - I'm in the middle of a home project now. Only taking some time out today for forum catch-up smile.gif

But here's something for you -

http://www.hometoys.com/news/2012/09/07/apple-lossless-and-aiff-support-added-to-pioneer-sc-receivers-for-expanded-digital-music-playback/19999811

According to this, Pioneer will be putting out a FW update to support aiff files and provide true gapless playback. Supposedly, sometime before year end is what Pioneer states for the update. I will add this to my list of questions to confirm details of what this is about.
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post #338 of 1918 Old 10-20-2012, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

^^
you do wink.gif

I never fool around with sound setttings, just let the disc do the talking.

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post #339 of 1918 Old 10-20-2012, 04:57 PM
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Greetings Steve:
From George- you introduced me to Josh L, who gave me a better deal on this SC-09 in 2008. .

I am glad you are enjoying your 09. I am thinking of getting sc 68 also. I tried to get a Pioneer elite dealer take 09 as a trade in for a samsung tv and sc68, the answer was "No".

I have a 92 inch Mitsubishi tv with 3D and Directv, the sc 09 is virtually useless regarding 3D ability. This is the main reason I am planning to get rid of the 09.
Now let me know how you are going to integrate both Avrs together.
I am also looking for a way to just sell the 09 and just forget about it, starring at it, I can not see myself getting rid of it. My wife will not like it either.

My only recourse is, assuming I keep it, is to use the SC 68 as main AVR and use the Sc-09 as an amp, getting two channels out of it, then turning the sc-68 in to a 11.2 system. Wht is your suggestion on this" IT will look like an overkill?. I am confused- Please help when you have the time.

Thanks.
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post #340 of 1918 Old 10-21-2012, 05:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by George Omoregie View Post

Greetings Steve:
From George- you introduced me to Josh L, who gave me a better deal on this SC-09 in 2008. .

wow, he sure is a piece of AV history now wink.gif haven't thought about him in several years since the power buy debacle & his demise as a dealer.

I connected the 68's preamp outs to the 09's multichannel analog inputs. When I use the 68, I select multichannel analog on the 09, turn its volume to close to 0 dB, say from -3 to 0, but no need to go into positive territory, then turn 09's MCACC completely off in the MCACC present menu, there's MCACC Off as a preset. That turns everything off, AFAIK, phase control, standing wave filter, EQ, channel levels, distances. You want the 68's calibration to be the one used.

I have the 68's 7.1 connected to the 09 that way. When I get ht speakers (soon), I will obviously use the 68's speaker connections for them.

if you're already using the 09's mc analogs for a player, like the Pio BDP-09 or Oppo 95, then you can get 2 component video switches and use those as audio switchers, preferably not active amped switchers, but passive relay based, like the old Zektors. In fact that's what I use - I found 2 used Zektors on Ebay and got them for about $70-80 ea. Needed 2 to get all 7.1 connections. Rare but better was Zektor's MAS 7.1 which had all 8 connections for mc audio. But very hard to find used. And Zektor discontinued all these consumer switchers. I don't use analogs from BD players but do use the MC analogs for a vintage quad receiver I still use & so needed the switchers for both of them into the 09.

How does it work? Pretty good.

At some point, I may switch the roles of the AVR's, using the SC-68's amps & the SC-09 as a prepro for Ilink, analog, record I/O's, etc. I planned cable lengths & cabinet positions so I could do either way just by changing cables around. This all took some planning, careful measuring, because the cost of all those analog cables adds up, even from Blue Jeans Cable wink.gif

using the 09 for just the fronts is something I didn't consider but certainly is an option. Depends on what sources you plan on keeping connected to it & how you intend to use.

I may have more to add but will have to wait to later the coming week.

I shared your anguish about the 09 for a long time. That's why I elected to keep it wink.gif Trying to sell it used didn't appeal to me, even with the discounts we both got, I'd lose $$$. And I wasn't ready to give up ILink - PQLS. For whatever reasons, the Pio 59AVi player using ILink sounds better to me than the Oppo 93 does playing same SACD, same tracks, with no MCACC processing, just whatever comes off the disc. I originally thought it was due to PQLS, but I don't hear the same difference using the BDP-09 with CD's, comparing PQLS on vs off with the 68 confused.gif Could be due to the DAC & how each AVR handles DSD direct, not converted to PCM. I posted about the 59 vs Oppo comparison somewhere, don't recall the thread. Not that important, anyway redface.gif

All I can say is Pioneer has come a long way in features since the 09 days. If you like the 09, you should like the 68. I still prefer that 09 display, tho cool.gif No getting around that! But having true OSD & GUI for settings on the TV mostly makes up for it wink.gif And the i - app control is a nice touch; I never thought I'd use that redface.gif

Post or PM more of your thoughts when you can & I'll do same. I've been down this road for ~9 months so understand what you're going thru.

Steve
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post #341 of 1918 Old 10-21-2012, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Hmm...IIRC, the old Mirages were bipolar planar-looking but maybe with cone speakers on each side (?).
Start with basics:
1. make sure your Mirages are several feet from the front wall. If you have them placed too close, you WILL get peaks & nulls from wave cancellation and most likely less output than if you had them 3-5 ft from the wall. if you've owned these for years, you probably know this already but just in case smile.gif
2. make sure in the Speaker Setup menu that you see Subwoofer as Yes. If it produced test tones then it should be Yes. If it didn't produce test tones, check the sub cable. make sure its OK & RCA connection not shorting out. In swapping gear, I've encountered a loose connection on my original sub cable and it grounded out and I didn't get any sound from the sub until I jiggled & re-seated it.
check speaker settings & suggest re-doing MCACC:
1. put the mic on a tripod, stand or on a seat back at the main listening position, NOT directly in front of & below the seat back to prevent reflected sound from giving falsely high levels. IOW, don't sit it on the seat itself. Don't try to hold it while running MCACC - you cannot hold it still or level plus your head would reflect sound back into it and mess up measured levels. Believe or not, someone posted they did it that way & wasn't happy with the results wink.gif
2. aim the mic up to the ceiling, parallel to the floor so the dimpled mic part is aimed straight up, not tilted forward or backwards
3. If possible, try to remove yourself from the room or at least the listening area, using the remote to control the receiver. I've seen just my presence near the mic alters the bass response.
4. If your sub has a volume control, adjust so that the Pioneer sets the sub channel level as close to 0.0 dB as possible. It's OK if it's not 0. And if the receiver sets it too a large positive or a large negative number, say +9 or -9 dB, that is right at the adjustment limit, so altering the sub volume on the sub itself will help the receiver bring the level closer to its target level without drastic cut or boost.
5. you should have at least 1 MCACC mode, Symmetry, as M1 Memory Preset. If you ran the full calibration, you should have all 3 as presets: Symmetry, All Channels Adjust & Front Aligned. The last 2 names are what Pioneer used to call them, so the new receiver may have slightly different naming. Symmetry will be your default. But make sure you have it selected in the MCACC menu and not accidentally turned off. If it's off, then the channel levels may be less & volume may need turned up.
6. suggest running your Mirages as Small, crossover at 80 Hz to start with, even if MCACC sets them to Large, change to Small. Try this before deciding to leave as Large. Small usually works the best for most HT speaker setups, unless your speakers have 10-12" woofers, and if I remember old Mirages right, they don't wink.gif
I've found Optimum to work well to enhance some older DVD encodes with even old Dolby Prologic Surround and has helped some older 5.1 Dolby Digital tracks . On some movies, it seemed to increase the surround discreteness and enhance the spread of center across the front instead of just a point source. I have NOT found it to interfere with or reduce perceived bass or sub output. Or substantially effect overall volume, if anything it seemed to make my center louder.
BUT in most cases, and definitely for all Blu-ray, I would try one of these instead, at least to start with:
Direct - straight processing of whatever is on the disc (if disc is 5.1 you won't get any sound from the rears)
Dolby ProLogic IIx Movie (adds the rears) - but on some DTS-Master Audio tracks you may not be able to add PLIIx, this is player dependent, how it handles DTS-MA tracks. Older Pioneers and Panasonics, for example, duplicated the side surrounds into the rears to simulate 7.1. so you couldn't add PLIIx. The Oppo players and others set to decode DTS-MA as PCM will allow adding PLIIx in the receiver. You'll have to try this and see what works or doesn't work.
DTS Neo X
U may like the effect Optimum has but my philosophy is always start with what's on the disc, and add processing to taste.
BTW - make sure you are selecting the correct audio track in the disc setup menu. This is no doubt old news to you but some new folks to this game have thought the receiver automatically picks the track from the disc smile.gif They just didn't know that you had to select DTS-Master Audio or TrueHD from the list, so were getting plain jane Dolby Digital or worse, just Dolby Stereo, instead. So I bring it up just in case...hopefully, you don't take offense I mention it wink.gif
Ignore the so called advanced surround modes completely, all they do is add artificial reverb and can make a great recording sound like a tin can.
Operating the receiver in the + zone on volume should not be needed. I normally listen @ -12 to -4 depending on movie, music, recording or mood wink.gif But I also have very inefficient large planar speakers that are also 4 ohms, Magnepans, so in order to get high volume levels I need to turn them up higher than someone with say DefTechs, Klipsh, Polks, etc.
my room size is 13.5 X 22 X 9 so not much different than yours. I watch/listen from ~11 ft from the plane of the fronts.
Each gen of Pioneer's seems to get slightly different MCACC tuning. For example, Pioneer's 1st Ice amp receiver, the SC-09, set all of my channel levels 6 dB LOWER than the VSX-59Txi, which resulted in better integration of the fronts & center but required me to set the volume knob 6 dB's more to get the same loudness. No big deal.
The new SC-68 seems to set the levels a little differently than the SC-09 did, on the center & surrounds. If anything I don't have to turn the SC-68 up as much as the SC-09 to achieve the same subjective volume. I can run - 9 & -8 db where I may have used -6 or -5 on the 09.
If you are comparing the volume settings between the Onkyo & Pioneer, don't smile.gif They're relative, not absolute, and cannot be compared between companies.
In older listening comparisons I have done with all the Pioneer true flagship receivers I have owned, the VSX-49txi, 59txi, & SC-09, from > 0 dB to would be very loud and I only listened in that area when I was in Pure Direct mode, with all MCACC turned off, so to compare with no processing, adjusted preamp levels to hear the impact of various changes I made to the system. At no time would I ever need to listen to a movie or music normally that way with MCACC On. On rare occasions, I'd turn it up to -2 or -1 but that only when I wanted to blow out the sound from the movie and actually blew my center's tweeter fuse once doing this once redface.gif
So, IMO, a + dB volume setting shouldn't be a normal everyday thing that you would need to do. Close to 0 I can believe for some situations but not > 0 for normal listening.
If at the end, you can't get the level you want w/o going to the + side, I'd consider talking to your dealer about swapping for another one - if you bought it from a local dealer or one that you've done business with, even BB/Magnolia, should let you return within 30 days. You could have a defective mic but I suspect it's a setup issue.
I may have more ideas depending on what results you get from checking & changing setup.
keep us posted.

WOW, wealth of info, and greatly appreciated. My mirage are standard type speakers, 2 woofers and a tweeter (I think they were called m7, nothing too fancy about 1200 pair vintage 1990.

I got the sub working much better set all to small turned up the volume on it and through the receiver a bit.

Sound Mode via BD player: If I dont change anything the receiver "info" states PCM (from what I understand this means the blu ray is giving out the full true dolby sound, funny Ive looked on a few dvd's and never seen a choice of sound output) though I certainly have heard this before.

The optimum setting is just the default if I touch nothing, what does it mean?

I like your hints about the mcaac setup I think I did relatevely well placing a stack of pillows on my coffeetable mimicking my head height but true this would be a few feet in front of my head, though may help a few others in the room, I can try again.

FINALLY I TAKE ABSOLUTELY NO OFFENSE TO EVEN THE SIMPLEST OF SUGGESTIONS;, I am amateur at best. (I have transformers and avengers Im going to check those menus again for sound track choices, but again when I see pcm my understanding is that is true hd sound)
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post #342 of 1918 Old 10-21-2012, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by symphx View Post

Sound Mode via BD player: If I dont change anything the receiver "info" states PCM (from what I understand this means the blu ray is giving out the full true dolby sound, funny Ive looked on a few dvd's and never seen a choice of sound output) though I certainly have heard this before.
The optimum setting is just the default if I touch nothing, what does it mean?

Optimum is actually a mode that makes some changes to the way the audio is presented... IMO, not optimal if you're looking for accuracy..

Try using the AUTO or STANDARD SURROUND modes. smile.gif
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OPTIMUM SURR – In the Optimum Surround mode, this receiver automatically optimizes sound balance in each scene based on actually set volume. The sound balancer controls three major theater sound elements dialogue, bass and surround with original algorithm.

If you want the Pioneer to decode the audio formats from BR, you need to make sure that Secondary Audio is turned off in the player, and that it is set to output Bitstream... telling us what kind of player you have will be helpful.
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

Optimum is actually a mode that makes some changes to the way the audio is presented... IMO, not optimal if you're looking for accuracy..
Try using the AUTO or STANDARD SURROUND modes. smile.gif
If you want the Pioneer to decode the audio formats from BR, you need to make sure that Secondary Audio is turned off in the player, and that it is set to output Bitstream... telling us what kind of player you have will be helpful.

I have never even seen a Optimum setting on my SC35 or my new SC61. How do you find this setting?

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I have never even seen a Optimum setting on my SC35 or my new SC61. How do you find this setting?


Press the AUTO/ALC/DIRECT button on the remote to cycle through.

I recommend to owners of all AVR's to download the Owner's Manual in PDF format..

They are seachable and usually can answer pressing questions rather quickly. smile.gif
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

Press the AUTO/ALC/DIRECT button on the remote to cycle through.
I recommend to owners of all AVR's to download the Owner's Manual in PDF format..
They are seachable and usually can answer pressing questions rather quickly. smile.gif

Just did that and still don't see it. I just see ACL, direct, pure direct and so on. I never fool around with these sounds modes as it is. 90% of what i watch is cable thru the wall with no cable box and the audio is just stereo at best. The other 10% is HD-OTA and BD and DVD's. Also never fool around with SCI-FI, sports and the other settings.

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post #346 of 1918 Old 10-21-2012, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

Press the AUTO/ALC/DIRECT button on the remote to cycle through.
I recommend to owners of all AVR's to download the Owner's Manual in PDF format..
They are seachable and usually can answer pressing questions rather quickly. smile.gif

I just hit auto, and optimum comes up, anyhoo, I have read that thing too many times, its not very clear on a lot of subjects, and often references to other pages are wrong!
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post #347 of 1918 Old 10-21-2012, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

Optimum is actually a mode that makes some changes to the way the audio is presented... IMO, not optimal if you're looking for accuracy..
Try using the AUTO or STANDARD SURROUND modes. smile.gif
If you want the Pioneer to decode the audio formats from BR, you need to make sure that Secondary Audio is turned off in the player, and that it is set to output Bitstream... telling us what kind of player you have will be helpful.

I dont mind my sony bd player decoding, Ive read through threads and understand it makes no diff. I was simply suggesting I havent yet seen the choice of modes ON the Movie options itself (yet). By the way Avengers is "reference" grade I read today to try it out, truly awesome. I have to say it does make Madagascar 3 sound like a joke.
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Do the new SC-6* line allow for playing the audio from one HDMI source while playing the video from another HDMI source? I have an 84TXSi and only non-HDMI sources can do that.
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post #349 of 1918 Old 10-22-2012, 08:02 AM
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Thanks alot for this thread and all your posts. I have been in the market for a receiver for over a month, strongly considering the elite 67/68. Once I found this thread I had all the information I needed and purchased the 67 last week. I went for the 67 because the price was half that of the 68 because all the amazon online retailers are discounting it, and BB now matches on line prices so the value was too good to pass on. I am replacing an old Yamaha HTR 5660. The first thing I did was hook up my KEF 104/2 speakers to test and compare the stereo between the two receivers. I was surprised to find that I needed to set the volume setting higher on the elite than on the yamaha to get the same level of sound/volume output - ie, referencing the -db setting displayed by the receivers. The yamaha is rated at 90 watts/channel vs the elite at 140 (and the relative difference is the same for 8,6,4 ohm speakers) the KEFs are 4 ohm. I would think it would take a lower setting on the elite to reach the same output as the yamaha, so this doesn't make any sense to me, but I'm realtively new to this. Can you guys help me understand why this would be? Thanks.
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Originally Posted by iceman81 View Post

Thanks alot for this thread and all your posts. I have been in the market for a receiver for over a month, strongly considering the elite 67/68. Once I found this thread I had all the information I needed and purchased the 67 last week. I went for the 67 because the price was half that of the 68 because all the amazon online retailers are discounting it, and BB now matches on line prices so the value was too good to pass on. I am replacing an old Yamaha HTR 5660. The first thing I did was hook up my KEF 104/2 speakers to test and compare the stereo between the two receivers. I was surprised to find that I needed to set the volume setting higher on the elite than on the yamaha to get the same level of sound/volume output - ie, referencing the -db setting displayed by the receivers. The yamaha is rated at 90 watts/channel vs the elite at 140 (and the relative difference is the same for 8,6,4 ohm speakers) the KEFs are 4 ohm. I would think it would take a lower setting on the elite to reach the same output as the yamaha, so this doesn't make any sense to me, but I'm realtively new to this. Can you guys help me understand why this would be? Thanks.

Because matching volume settings on most AVR's wont't be expected to give the same SPL output except for two scenarios:

1. THX receivers.

2. Audyssey receivers.

The idea is that when listening at 0db on THX and/or Audyssey systems, you are listening at reference...

Be aware, though, that differences in mastering levels, program level, dialog norm settings, etc, can make that a bit loud for most to listen at comfortably.

THX receivers are designed to negate the dialog norm offset, so 0 should be 0...

On my Denon 4311, I have found that material that I mixed tends to be at "reference" around -12 > -8 db...

Other than having those two features, most AVR's volume values aren't useful except as a relative gauge for output.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

On my Denon 4311, I have found that material that I mixed tends to be at "reference" around -12 > -8 db...
Is that based on listening, or on an SPL meter?

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Greetings Steve:
From George- you introduced me to Josh L, who gave me a better deal on this SC-09 in 2008. .

I am glad you are enjoying your 09. I am thinking of getting sc 68 also. I tried to get a Pioneer elite dealer take 09 as a trade in for a samsung tv and sc68, the answer was "No".

I have a 92 inch Mitsubishi tv with 3D and Directv, the sc 09 is virtually useless regarding 3D ability. This is the main reason I am planning to get rid of the 09.
Now let me know how you are going to integrate both Avrs together.
I am also looking for a way to just sell the 09 and just forget about it, starring at it, I can not see myself getting rid of it. My wife will not like it either.

My only recourse is, assuming I keep it, is to use the SC 68 as main AVR and use the Sc-09 as an amp, getting two channels out of it, then turning the sc-68 in to a 11.2 system. Wht is your suggestion on this" IT will look like an overkill?. I am confused- Please help when you have the time.

Thanks.
George .

y'know... there's another way around this if the only reason you are doing it is so you can pass 3d... post back if interested...

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Is that based on listening, or on an SPL meter?

Both...

However, and SPL meter isn't as accurate a guage for me... it's hard to measure something on a dub stage and have it correlate later when I hear it at home.

I've yet to hear a film in my (overly) live room at reference on the 4311 without it being too loud (in my subjective opinion.) smile.gif

I'll follow up on how the Pioneer's stack up when I set up my new SC-67 + 8033Cinema later this week.
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post #354 of 1918 Old 10-22-2012, 02:42 PM
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I was sent this by a Pioneer CS agent, is it true? I do all my listening in my living room from a HTPC with an ATI 5670 card, using Windows Lossless and FLAC over HDMI, and I was really excited about switching from my Denon 4308 to the SC-68 due to the USB-DAC. However, I really enjoy different plugins like G-Force, album art etc. while listening, as well as high def videos. Couldn't I just set the unit to output Video from the HDMI and sound from the USB-DAC? I switched to the Denon from a Pioneer vsx-59, and was very disappointed in the sound quality for music at first, but for whatever reason the sound from the Denon 4308 has continued to improve over the years, and sounds very good now, should I just stick with it?

Thank you for contacting Pioneer Electronics (USA) Inc.
When you select USB-DAC, you will not get video on the TV screen. The receiver is being used as a sound card only.
There is a USB type B connection on the back of the receiver, this is where you will connect your computer. You will load the Windows driver, shut down the computer, connect the SC-68 with the USB 2.0 high speed cable, and then boot up the computer.
Within the computer, you will need to tell it to use the receiver as the sound card. Begin playback of the supported audio file and the sound will come through the receiver.
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^^^

yea, that sounds right to me... that's pretty much how every avr works...

for all the talk about the "superiority" of async usb, does anyone have any "real" test results?

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Thanks - but who is right, the agent or me?
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^^^

the agent... unless pio has added something somewhere to allow you to override the audio (as you can do with a spdif or analog connection, since there can be video associated with those)...

since there can be no video associated via the usb connection, it's unlikely that they added the above...

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O.K., darn, that's kind of a downer, I believe my Denon has a feature where you can play sound from one input and video from another input. Still, I would like a 3D capable receiver, as right now I switch cabling direct to my projector when I watch 3d over my ps3, and there's always the 4k passthrough. I had been looking at the Arcam 600 for quite some time to gain better quality with stereo music (have never had any complaints about the Denon for home theater), but it sounds like the Pioneer is pretty close in performance to the Arcam, and a lot more affordable. Plus it is very feature laden and with a better interface now, like the Denon line..
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^^^

yes, so does my denon... so does the pio, ftm... just not with all inputs... only with inputs that can have video associated with them....

keep in mind (at least with your denon), you are actually overlaying the video over the audio, not the other way around... i'm assuming it's that way on the pio, it always was before... also keep in mind that it will not "work" with a hdmi video source, only analog...

to overlay hdmi video with either spdif or analog audio, you would hook the spdif/analog audio to the same input as you are using for hdmi, and then use the "sig sel" (signal select) option to tell the avr to get the sound from "digital" (spdif) or analog....

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my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

Both...
However, and SPL meter isn't as accurate a guage for me... it's hard to measure something on a dub stage and have it correlate later when I hear it at home.
I've yet to hear a film in my (overly) live room at reference on the 4311 without it being too loud (in my subjective opinion.) smile.gif
I was hoping you'd say that. I think regardless of what the meter says, there's something about those SPLs in small rooms that makes them seem much louder.

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